Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine Podcast #46: ‘Systemic Racism in the US and Israel’​

 

[P F Tinmore]

Bethlehem-Jerusalem-Nazareth: Hope and Resilience in Difficult Times- Webinar​

 

[P F Tinmore]

CATCUSA | Day 1 | Palestinian Israeli Conflict 101 Rev Alex Awad & Jonathan Kuttab​

 

[P F Tinmore]

Abby Martin talks about Gaza, Palestine, Israel, BDS, and her film: Gaza Fights For Freedom​

 

[San Souci]

Since there is no such thing as "Palistine" ,what is the point?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel’s Shifting Political Landscape and National Security​

Interesting part @ 51:00

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: To "BiBi" or not to "BiBi"
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This panel addressed so many issues in fact and so many hypotheticals, it cannot be addressed in just one USMB exchange.

Israel’s Shifting Political Landscape and National Security​

Interesting part @ 51:00

(COMMENT)

A vast majority of the discussion (now over two years old) is about the inner workings and hidden mechanisms of Israeli domestic interest. And except for the members of the group who are Israeli, we (Americans) should have little to say about it. Relative to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, few (very few) Americans have the knowledge and expertise in what conditions must be set for any of the solutions to become reasonably viable.

As an outside observer, I'm not even sure that the project the Institute for National Strategy (INSS) is pursuing is even, productive in any form.

There is one point the panel did make, that I have also mentioned before; that being "apartheid." As long as the internal domestic development of the Arab Israeli population is treated fairly and with a voice that is due one-fifth of the population, Israel can say that they are NOT an "Apartheid State." But if Israel has any notion of annexing portions of the West Bank, the Arabs in that territory annexed MUST have the same rights and privileges due any other Israeli Citizen (one law for everyone). IF they don't - THEN Israel will become an Apartheid State. But I do not really see any serious consideration being given that agenda. One of the panelists mentioned giving the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank an opportunity to vote on the Israeli Occupation. But again, I don't see any serious effort into how such an idea would be accomplished or how a ballot would be constructed.

The US should NOT get involved in any of these issues with a clear invitation by the Israelis.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

, Israel can say that they are NOT an "Apartheid State."

Some say that Israel was created as an apartheid state. They placed people in different boxes for different rights and different treatment. Of course the Palestinians were always on the bottom rung of that ladder.

BTW, what do you think of the info @ 51:00?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Sure.

The 1948 war began on May 15, 1948 when five Arab armies entered Palestine to defend the Palestinians. The players were the Israeli forces and the forces of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan/Iraq, and Egypt.

The fighting ended in less than a year when a UN Security Council Resolution called for an armistice. An armistice ends the fighting without calling winners or losers.
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The Nakba began in December of 1947 when Zionist forces attack Palestinian civilians driving them out of their homes. The players are the Zionist/Israeli forces and Palestinian civilians. That conflict has never ended. It continues to today.
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So, we have two different times, two different players, two different goals, and two different results.

I notice that nobody refuted my post.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israeli/Palestinian Conflict: Dialogue that Matters with Marianne Williamson​

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: To "BiBi" or not to "BiBi"
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Some say that Israel was created as an apartheid state. They placed people in different boxes for different rights and different treatment. Of course the Palestinians were always on the bottom rung of that ladder.

BTW, what do you think of the info @ 51:00?

I notice that nobody refuted my post.

(COMMENT)

At the ≈ 51:00 (+/-) mark, they are making the point about "Democratic Resilience." And while I have never used that particular term before, I have approached that from several different directions.

But I want to make the point that there was no real claim made by any of the panelists. They made their observations and then presented their view.

You claim - "nobody refuted my post." Well, that is because you did not state your case.

You did not make any contributions to the commentary on that page (#138). And most people don't want to make an argument in the blind that you did not contribute.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

You claim - "nobody refuted my post." Well, that is because you did not state your case.

You asked a question and I answered it, There was no response. I am sure that I will continue to hear the lie that the 1948 war was the couse of the refugee problem.

 

[P F Tinmore]

At the ≈ 51:00 (+/-) mark, they are making the point about "Democratic Resilience."

 

[P F Tinmore]

The US-Israeli Occupation of Palestine with Rania Khalek​

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[P F Tinmore]

You asked a question and I answered it, There was no response. I am sure that I will continue to hear the lie that the 1948 war was the cause of the refugee problem.

So RoccoR, what part of my post do you disagree with?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Breaking the Status Quo - Rights of Palestinians - Palestinian Nationalism
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

INTRO: While the presentation is somewhat interesting from an intellectual standpoint, it is an hour-and-a-half of what remains of your life that you will never get back.

Concerning - "Discussion with Peter Beinart"

(COMMENT)

First, let me start by saying that the presentation is a → J•Space Canada production. They have an image of themselves that you should best hear from them (hence the link) ... I have my own view of J•Space from an entirely different perspective; that being they are a SHADOW Organization with no tangible output. Like a shadow, they are there and under certain lighting conditions you can see it, but that can only impact perception but cannot affect reality. When dark times come, they simply disappear into the background. Otherwise, they are well stocked with a basket full of intelligent contributors.


They used the term - "Progressive Zionist." I do not know what that means. I am not sure, the way some people use the term → "Zionist" → how can that be progressive?

(POINTS of CONTENTION)
They also make the argument (tangentially) that if they (who are they: I am not sure if it is the Zionists or Israelis) do not face the NAKBA (“disaster” • “catastrophe” etc.) they are doomed to repeat it. I think that is not subject to proof. An event such as the NAKBA (a nomenclature associated almost exclusively with the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict) can happen.

The suggestion was made that the "Two-State Solution" should really be referred to as a "Partition." The presentation suggests that a Palestinian State alongside the Jewish State will be a pattern of different Palestinian political subdivisions that are disconnected and will never rise to the level of being a real functioning government providing for the wants and needs of the Arab Palestinian population. I (OTH) suggest that the mosaic of non-viable Palestinian elements is already the status quo. And it was a by-product of the Palestinian Government to make way for fraud and corruption. The Palestinians themselves do not deny this. IF there is a status quo THEN it is one the Palestinians have no real interest in changing.

The presentation talks about the lack of "shared space" (undefined) and "human rights." This is another misconception. These rights are not conferred by some deity dropping down from the sky - and in the flash of a bolt of lightning - grant this petition. Like the people of every other country in the world, freedoms, peace, and human rights are the product of hard work. You don't just sit on your ass and wait for it to come in the mail. It is not something you can order from Amazon. The first step for a better tomorrow is to decide to adopt the tenants in the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR). That is imperative!
I am somewhat surprised that J-Space did not emphasize this point. After all, they bill themselves as being "a one-stop-shop for discussions around social justice, peace, and civil rights, both in Israel and Canada." While they did mention this at the very beginning, within the first 25 minutes of the discussion, it turns away from the two-way notion of it becomes a one-way door.

(Ω )

The presentation is over an hour and a half long. IF I were to comment on every aspect of every point THEN it would take me hours to flush out the commentary. All I can say now is, nothing they discuss has not been touched upon in these USMB discussions.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Gaza, BDS and Justice for Palestine​

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Breaking the Status Quo - Rights of Palestinians - Palestinian Nationalism
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

So@ RoccoR, what part of my post do you disagree with?

(COMMENT)

You still did not contribute anything.

It was only an insert you posted.

There was no single issue that started the 1948 War for Independence. It was a string of events of ever-increasing in the Jewish - Arab discord. The British said it best: “His Majesty’s Government have …been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles."

However, the fact that the 1948 War for Independence was a trigger for the more open conflict of the last seven decades - and the lack of cooperation and compromise by the Arab Palestinians have contributed the most in the perpetuation of the conflict and the present situation the Arab Palestinian now find themselves.

◈ The growing intensity in the Arab Palestinians generational infection of Jewish Hatred over the last 70 years has ensured that the discord will continue for another century.​

​

◈ Many might look at the response by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) to the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip as a practical indicator of how the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank further react should the Israelis begin a withdrawal and gradually relax security controls.​

While the Israeli attitude for the Arab Palestinians has not been perfect, it is hard to imagine how it would not be so given the violent nature of the (HoAP). In fact, given the constant belligerent behavior of the Arab Palestinian, it is a wonder (as an outside observer) that the Israeli has not been more draconian. There is simply no restraint on the part of the Arab Palestinian. With the constant amplification of hostility, incitement to violence, and the total disregard for the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and the corruption by - and constant threats by various Arab Palestinian Leaders there is virtually no possibility that the two sides can live together in peace. And although we constantly hear that HoAP does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but continue the struggle against the Israelis who occupy Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RoccoR said:https://www.usmessageboard.com/goto/post?id=28705092

RoccoR said: Q: Please explain, what is the difference between the 1948 War and The Nakba?

Sure.

The 1948 war began on May 15, 1948 when five Arab armies entered Palestine to defend the Palestinians. The players were the Israeli forces and the forces of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan/Iraq, and Egypt.

The fighting ended in less than a year when a UN Security Council Resolution called for an armistice. An armistice ends the fighting without calling winners or losers.
-----------------
The Nakba began in December of 1947 when Zionist forces attack Palestinian civilians driving them out of their homes. The players are the Zionist/Israeli forces and Palestinian civilians. That conflict has never ended. It continues to today.
------------------
So, we have two different times, two different players, two different goals, and two different results.

You did not respond to my post.