Pain lingers for lesbian couple denied in Sweet Cakes case

[martybegan]

You don't make $40,000/year.

Again, you don't get that it's not about $2 worth of pizza. It's about the piece of shit proving he can't quit being a criminal.

Actually, I make quite a lot more than that and have for sometime now.

Again, you could take every crime this guy has ever committed, and the value would NOT exceed the cost of keeping him locked up for a week.

The craziness is we spend 74 BILLION a year locking people up. You guys will whine about 400 million spent on Public Television, but you don't bat an eye at this counterproductive policy.

So we can host him at your home, if you are volunteering, ***** tits.

 

[martybegan]

You really are that stupid. It isn't about the pizza, it's about the fact that the guy can't quit being a criminal. What's so hard for you to understand about that?

The part where I as a tax payer have to pay $40,000 a year to lock him up over a $2.00 slice of pizza.

Hey, I thought you "Conservatives" were about fiscal responsibility.

It would be far cheaper if we could make them do hard labor, and remove a lot of the comforts progressives demand for prisoners. you idiots can't have it both ways.

Hey! treat those prisoners better, Hey! why does it cost so much to keep those prisoners!

 

[JoeB131]

I cannot believe you are daft enough to equate a 3-4 time loser drunkenly taking pizza from a bunch of kids to someone not wanting to bake a cake for a gay wedding. That you can even attempt to equate the two shows that either you are a pure troll, or a miserable ****, or a combo of both.

But you are A-OK with ruining someone over not baking a cake. Your priorities show a serious mental issue, or again, you are just a ******* ****.

actually, I think what the Kliens did was worse. Williams didn't engage in a campaign of harrassment against the kid he took the slice of pizza from.

I should also point out the other drunken loser - the one without a record - wasn't even charged with a crime.

Williams is emblematic of a racist society that let's people down... From schools that didn't prepare him for a working job to a prison industrial complex that just sees him as a commodity..

 

[JoeB131]

It would be far cheaper if we could make them do hard labor, and remove a lot of the comforts progressives demand for prisoners. you idiots can't have it both ways.

Hey! treat those prisoners better, Hey! why does it cost so much to keep those prisoners!

Or we can do what Germany and Japan do. only lock up the people who are truly dangerous and need to be locked up.

Germany imprisons 78K people out of 80MM. Japan 69K out of 110M. We lock up 2 Million out of 310 million.

 

[martybegan]

I cannot believe you are daft enough to equate a 3-4 time loser drunkenly taking pizza from a bunch of kids to someone not wanting to bake a cake for a gay wedding. That you can even attempt to equate the two shows that either you are a pure troll, or a miserable ****, or a combo of both.

But you are A-OK with ruining someone over not baking a cake. Your priorities show a serious mental issue, or again, you are just a ******* ****.

actually, I think what the Kliens did was worse. Williams didn't engage in a campaign of harrassment against the kid he took the slice of pizza from.

I should also point out the other drunken loser - the one without a record - wasn't even charged with a crime.

Williams is emblematic of a racist society that let's people down... From schools that didn't prepare him for a working job to a prison industrial complex that just sees him as a commodity..

There's that thought crime crap coming out of you again.

And your white guilt/white privilege shit coming out as well.

Again, the other drunk loser didn't have a record.

 

[martybegan]

It would be far cheaper if we could make them do hard labor, and remove a lot of the comforts progressives demand for prisoners. you idiots can't have it both ways.

Hey! treat those prisoners better, Hey! why does it cost so much to keep those prisoners!

Or we can do what Germany and Japan do. only lock up the people who are truly dangerous and need to be locked up.

Germany imprisons 78K people out of 80MM. Japan 69K out of 110M. We lock up 2 Million out of 310 million.

while at the same time you want every american disarmed?

**** off.

 

[Silhouette]

He's done plenty of other things as well, and recidivism is recidivism. If you can't learn your lesson, maybe prison is the place you deserve.

Again, it wasn't 25 to life for the slice of pizza, it was 25 to life for repeat offenses, at a time when people were sick of recidivist criminals getting out and going right back into crime.

And the difference is your pet project is an end run to punish thought crime, not an actual crime with actual harm.

Very well put Marty. The Kleins in Oregon PASSIVELY refused to participate in a gay wedding ceremony. As Christians, that is their CIVIL RIGHT to do so. They didn't hold the lesbians intent on turning this into a political coup at gun point, for example. They didn't pull out a rolling pin and begin bashing them on the head. They didn't stalk them to their house and burn a giant dildo in their yard (I still wonder why lesbians use dildos, so close to the real thing...?). They didn't throw acid in their faces, or even call them names. The Kleins just, merely, kindly and cordially said "no, we're sorry". While a 100 other bakers stood ready nearby to fulfill their order without so much as a blink of an eyelash.

It's important to remember here that sexual orientation is a behavior. It isn't something static that the lesbians were born with and/or couldn't avoid. It is a lifestyle choice; one they can change apparently or one at least that has blurry lines (see my dildo remark). Just ask Anne Heche. As such, Christians have every right to say no to participation in a lifestyle that not only violates their firmly held beliefs, but a lifestyle, should they assist in promoting it, would land them in Hell for eternity. See Jude 1 of the New Testament for details. You can't force Christians to choose between closing their business or Hell for eternity.

To me the nature/behavior thing is non-material to the discussion on use of PA laws to force non-essential businesses to provide services they do not want to. While I understand your religious views on it, my concern is with use of government force for trivial matters in general.

It isn't really my views on religion. It's my respect for the Klein's practice of religion. More than that it is my respect for the freedoms in the Constitution. When a cult comes along and tries to rip the freedoms guaranteed to all of us in the Constitution away...so that in the end it allows them inroads into our education system to, without our permission, "teach up" little youngsters to join their cult...well my friend...that's when I get hot under the collar.

 

[martybegan]

He's done plenty of other things as well, and recidivism is recidivism. If you can't learn your lesson, maybe prison is the place you deserve.

Again, it wasn't 25 to life for the slice of pizza, it was 25 to life for repeat offenses, at a time when people were sick of recidivist criminals getting out and going right back into crime.

And the difference is your pet project is an end run to punish thought crime, not an actual crime with actual harm.

Very well put Marty. The Kleins in Oregon PASSIVELY refused to participate in a gay wedding ceremony. As Christians, that is their CIVIL RIGHT to do so. They didn't hold the lesbians intent on turning this into a political coup at gun point, for example. They didn't pull out a rolling pin and begin bashing them on the head. They didn't stalk them to their house and burn a giant dildo in their yard (I still wonder why lesbians use dildos, so close to the real thing...?). They didn't throw acid in their faces, or even call them names. The Kleins just, merely, kindly and cordially said "no, we're sorry". While a 100 other bakers stood ready nearby to fulfill their order without so much as a blink of an eyelash.

It's important to remember here that sexual orientation is a behavior. It isn't something static that the lesbians were born with and/or couldn't avoid. It is a lifestyle choice; one they can change apparently or one at least that has blurry lines (see my dildo remark). Just ask Anne Heche. As such, Christians have every right to say no to participation in a lifestyle that not only violates their firmly held beliefs, but a lifestyle, should they assist in promoting it, would land them in Hell for eternity. See Jude 1 of the New Testament for details. You can't force Christians to choose between closing their business or Hell for eternity.

To me the nature/behavior thing is non-material to the discussion on use of PA laws to force non-essential businesses to provide services they do not want to. While I understand your religious views on it, my concern is with use of government force for trivial matters in general.

It isn't really my views on religion. It's my respect for the Klein's practice of religion. More than that it is my respect for the freedoms in the Constitution. When a cult comes along and tries to rip the freedoms guaranteed to all of us in the Constitution away...so that in the end it allows them inroads into our education system to, without our permission, "teach up" little youngsters to join their cult...well my friend...that's when I get hot under the collar.

To clarify, I do see some situations where government can enforce equal access to commerce, necessary foodstuffs, emergency medical services, and point of sale lodging. My issue is that the application of PA law to EVERY business transaction is beyond the intended scope of these laws.

So as an example, a hotel should not be able to deny a room on the basis of your standard anti-discrimination policies, but it should be able to deny a contracted use of its facilities, for say, a wedding, if it so chooses to.

 

[Katzndogz]

You really are that stupid. It isn't about the pizza, it's about the fact that the guy can't quit being a criminal. What's so hard for you to understand about that?

The part where I as a tax payer have to pay $40,000 a year to lock him up over a $2.00 slice of pizza.

Hey, I thought you "Conservatives" were about fiscal responsibility.

It would be far cheaper if we could make them do hard labor, and remove a lot of the comforts progressives demand for prisoners. you idiots can't have it both ways.

Hey! treat those prisoners better, Hey! why does it cost so much to keep those prisoners!

Yes. Have them work. Put them in s for profit prison.

 

[Conservative65]

You don't make $40,000/year.

Again, you don't get that it's not about $2 worth of pizza. It's about the piece of shit proving he can't quit being a criminal.

Actually, I make quite a lot more than that and have for sometime now.

Again, you could take every crime this guy has ever committed, and the value would NOT exceed the cost of keeping him locked up for a week.

The craziness is we spend 74 BILLION a year locking people up. You guys will whine about 400 million spent on Public Television, but you don't bat an eye at this counterproductive policy.

Prove it.

I have an easy solution for solving the problem of locking people up and people being locked up. Quit committing crimes.

 

[Conservative65]

I cannot believe you are daft enough to equate a 3-4 time loser drunkenly taking pizza from a bunch of kids to someone not wanting to bake a cake for a gay wedding. That you can even attempt to equate the two shows that either you are a pure troll, or a miserable ****, or a combo of both.

But you are A-OK with ruining someone over not baking a cake. Your priorities show a serious mental issue, or again, you are just a ******* ****.

actually, I think what the Kliens did was worse. Williams didn't engage in a campaign of harrassment against the kid he took the slice of pizza from.

I should also point out the other drunken loser - the one without a record - wasn't even charged with a crime.

Williams is emblematic of a racist society that let's people down... From schools that didn't prepare him for a working job to a prison industrial complex that just sees him as a commodity..

Sounds to me as if Williams didn't prepare himself for a working job. He let himself down. The opportunities to learn were there. That he chose no to take them doesn't mean he didn't have them.

 

[JoeB131]

There's that thought crime crap coming out of you again.

And your white guilt/white privilege shit coming out as well.

Again, the other drunk loser didn't have a record.

So what they did wasn't a serious crime, then? The you arne't punishing the act, you are punishing the behavior.

Awesome. So are we when we nail homophobes to the wall.

 

[JoeB131]

while at the same time you want every american disarmed?

**** off.

Again amazing the Japanese are disarmed and they only lock up 69,000 criminals...

Gee, what are they doing right that we are doing wrong? Japanese women can walk downtown in Tokyo without fear of being assaulted. Can we say the same of New York or Chicago? Of course not.

So if Guns and Prisons are supposed to make us safer, why are you soooooo scared?

I have an easy solution for solving the problem of locking people up and people being locked up. Quit committing crimes.

How about punishing everyone the same. Tyrone the Street kid gets prison and Rush Limbaugh gets Rehab... how does that work?

 

[JoeB131]

Sounds to me as if Williams didn't prepare himself for a working job. He let himself down. The opportunities to learn were there. That he chose no to take them doesn't mean he didn't have them.

Wow... clueless white people sure are clueless..

 

[Katzndogz]

while at the same time you want every american disarmed?

**** off.

Again amazing the Japanese are disarmed and they only lock up 69,000 criminals...

Gee, what are they doing right that we are doing wrong? Japanese women can walk downtown in Tokyo without fear of being assaulted. Can we say the same of New York or Chicago? Of course not.

So if Guns and Prisons are supposed to make us safer, why are you soooooo scared?

I have an easy solution for solving the problem of locking people up and people being locked up. Quit committing crimes.

How about punishing everyone the same. Tyrone the Street kid gets prison and Rush Limbaugh gets Rehab... how does that work?

Rush doesn't strong arm children to steal their pizza.

 

[JoeB131]

Rush doesn't strong arm children to steal their pizza.

Frankly, looking at Rush, I am wondering if he actually ate the children with his fat ass..

but that's besides the point. Point is, rich drug addicts get rehab, poor ones get prison.

Frankly, i see no use in sending any addict to prison. It's foolish to treat a medical problem like a criminal one. But if you are going to treat it like a crime, then we need to lock up some white dopers, just to make it fair.

 

[Conservative65]

while at the same time you want every american disarmed?

**** off.

Again amazing the Japanese are disarmed and they only lock up 69,000 criminals...

Gee, what are they doing right that we are doing wrong? Japanese women can walk downtown in Tokyo without fear of being assaulted. Can we say the same of New York or Chicago? Of course not.

So if Guns and Prisons are supposed to make us safer, why are you soooooo scared?

I have an easy solution for solving the problem of locking people up and people being locked up. Quit committing crimes.

How about punishing everyone the same. Tyrone the Street kid gets prison and Rush Limbaugh gets Rehab... how does that work?

Same way that someone committing three strikes goes away for life and someone doing it the first time get different sentences. The first person has shown he can't learn to stop committing crimes despite having three chances and the second person gets a second chance.

The Japanese, unlike the bleeding hearts here, don't take into account the person's background, economic situation, etc. when they commit crimes. They learn excuses don't help. In the U.S., people like you think if someone comes from a bad economic background it's an excuse for why they did something and punishment shouldn't be harsh.

People should be able to walk down the streets of Chicago without fear. Don't they have strict gun laws telling people not to own something they shouldn't own? Guess that doesn't work.

As far as Chicago is concerned. Look at the demographics.

 

[JoeB131]

Same way that someone committing three strikes goes away for life and someone doing it the first time get different sentences. The first person has shown he can't learn to stop committing crimes despite having three chances and the second person gets a second chance.

That's kind of a stupid law. Besides having cases of people being thrown in prison for life for petty crimes (which again, costs about $40,000 a year to lock them up. Shit, we could give them a job for that amount!) the real problem we have is that we create a vicious circle.

Someone gets convicted of a petty crime and goes to prison. It's on his record and he's effectively unemployable. He might turn to other petty crime just so he can eat that day. But since Prison is a 94 BILLION dollar business in this country, and a lot of people are making money off of it, we don't care about the damage.

he Japanese, unlike the bleeding hearts here, don't take into account the person's background, economic situation, etc. when they commit crimes. They learn excuses don't help. In the U.S., people like you think if someone comes from a bad economic background it's an excuse for why they did something and punishment shouldn't be harsh.

I think you are a little confused. Coming from a bad economic background means you are MORE likely to be punished harshly. It's why Rush Limpballs isn't in prison for drug abuse right now. He was a rich white guy who got expensive lawyers to get him off when he was as guilty as a cat in a canary cage.

Here's what the Japanese do that we don't. They make sure that before you leave prison, you have the skills to hold down a job, including being able to read and write..

People should be able to walk down the streets of Chicago without fear. Don't they have strict gun laws telling people not to own something they shouldn't own? Guess that doesn't work.

As far as Chicago is concerned. Look at the demographics.

yup, them damned darkies... Hey, Boss, I want you to tell me how Conservatives aren't racist, because Conservative1965 is kind of making you look bad.

PS- We haven't had a strict gun law in Chicago since 2010, when the MacDonald Case overturned Chicago's gun bans that were barely enforced, anyway.

 

[Conservative65]

Same way that someone committing three strikes goes away for life and someone doing it the first time get different sentences. The first person has shown he can't learn to stop committing crimes despite having three chances and the second person gets a second chance.

That's kind of a stupid law. Besides having cases of people being thrown in prison for life for petty crimes (which again, costs about $40,000 a year to lock them up. Shit, we could give them a job for that amount!) the real problem we have is that we create a vicious circle.

Someone gets convicted of a petty crime and goes to prison. It's on his record and he's effectively unemployable. He might turn to other petty crime just so he can eat that day. But since Prison is a 94 BILLION dollar business in this country, and a lot of people are making money off of it, we don't care about the damage.

he Japanese, unlike the bleeding hearts here, don't take into account the person's background, economic situation, etc. when they commit crimes. They learn excuses don't help. In the U.S., people like you think if someone comes from a bad economic background it's an excuse for why they did something and punishment shouldn't be harsh.

I think you are a little confused. Coming from a bad economic background means you are MORE likely to be punished harshly. It's why Rush Limpballs isn't in prison for drug abuse right now. He was a rich white guy who got expensive lawyers to get him off when he was as guilty as a cat in a canary cage.

Here's what the Japanese do that we don't. They make sure that before you leave prison, you have the skills to hold down a job, including being able to read and write..

People should be able to walk down the streets of Chicago without fear. Don't they have strict gun laws telling people not to own something they shouldn't own? Guess that doesn't work.

As far as Chicago is concerned. Look at the demographics.

yup, them damned darkies... Hey, Boss, I want you to tell me how Conservatives aren't racist, because Conservative1965 is kind of making you look bad.

PS- We haven't had a strict gun law in Chicago since 2010, when the MacDonald Case overturned Chicago's gun bans that were barely enforced, anyway.

It's a law that addresses those that can't choose to quit committing crimes. We don't create a vicious cycle. The ones that keep committing crimes keep themselves in it when all they have to do is quit committing crimes.

Give them? Do you ever ******* consider someone earning what they get?

You continue to make excuses for criminals and expect those of us that aren't to offset their bad choices. If someone continues to commit crimes, and I don't give a shit what their excuses is, you're right, I don't give a shit about them. It's easy. Don't commit crime or STFU about people wanting you punished, and more severely, if you commit more and more of them.

Are you saying that people in prison don't have any skills or know how to read or write. In the U.S., we have schools that teach people to read and write. In many households, including mine, we took it upon ourselves to make sure our kids knew basic things before they went to school. It's called taking an interest in your children.

How many of those criminals you think should be let roam free have a high school diploma? Are you saying they can't read and write despite having one?

You have strict gun laws. That they don't come up to the level of confiscation like you support doesn't make them weak.

I said nothing about race. I simply mentioned demographics and you automatically assumed that. Seems you focus on race, racist.

 

[Katzndogz]

Rush doesn't strong arm children to steal their pizza.

Frankly, looking at Rush, I am wondering if he actually ate the children with his fat ass..

but that's besides the point. Point is, rich drug addicts get rehab, poor ones get prison.

Frankly, i see no use in sending any addict to prison. It's foolish to treat a medical problem like a criminal one. But if you are going to treat it like a crime, then we need to lock up some white dopers, just to make it fair.

Rich drug addicts don't commit crimes.
In modern day, only the Phillipines and China treats drug addicts appropriately.