I would never have anything to do with Dungeons and Dragons role playing game as it is a doorway to demonic oppression / possession and there are young people who have died while involved in that deadly game. Through their involvement with Dungeons and Dragons people can become demonically controlled without realizing what is happening to them. Sadly some schools have even permitted these games to be played as a part of extracurricular clubs. Such games are a crash course in witchcraft.
Interesting that you should bring that particular game up. I have tried to warn people on this board about that game but they do not see the danger. For those who are not familiar with Dungeons and Dragons, it is a game portrayed as an adventure where many battles are fought with various monsters and beings, each having certain abilities and characteristics. There are manuals available with many pictures and details about these different characters.
The players are supposed to visualize the action of the game in their minds. The better they become at "seeing" and anticipating the moves of their opponent the more advanced they become in the game. These "monsters" are actually real demons. What they are visualizing in their minds is what they are actually beginning to see in the spirit world. The spirit world is real and there are people here on this board who will readily admit to that fact. The imagination is a key stepping stone to contact with the spirit world and as the player continues in this D & D game they become infested with demons. There are more advanced manuals that detail spells, incantations and demonic writing that is used and taught to the witches and warlocks of The Brotherhood itslef. (that is an organization known to some Witches but likely not known to those who do not know about the occult). Higher level players of D & D have admitted to conversing with these beings (demons) and even inviting these demons into them for greater powers.
So if the reader can imagine that D & D would be like the crash course in witchcraft, the battles that take place over territory, disputes among witches, warlocks is very real and in some cases ends with the death of the one with the weaker powers. Satan's kingdom is highly organized. There are territories and there are people in certain positions of authority in those territories and there are on occasion battles for those territories and the power over those territories.
For an example, there is a testimony of a Doctor who worked at a hospital in the intensive care unit. She was a Christian and the Lord had permitted her to stand in the gap (she prayed daily) for the hospital and the city according to Ezekiel 22:30-31 as the city and hospital had a number of powerful witches in it.
This Doctor had encountered patients who were dying because they were under attack by a very powerful group of witches. In fact, there were high level witches working in that hospital and in the department she worked in. Their prayers against the doctor didn't work (because she was a Christian) but against those who were targeted and also against those involved in the occult who became sick and ended up in that hospital, things were taking a turn for the worse.
One by one the Doctor interceded for them and God did a great work but in one particular case a man (who was a witch although he denied this) was in great danger and was quickly fading. He had been in a battle with a more powerful witch over a territory. She had come across many patients afflicted by witchcraft attacks before so she knew what she was seeing.
She did tell the man but at first what God had revealed to her about him but he denied it and said she was crazy (this is a common reaction from people in witchcraft- to accuse someone who knows what is going on of being crazy - because the occult is a hidden society and these people are very guarded about revealing what they are involved in - secrecy is a rule that is taken very seriously).
Later, when he was on the verge of dying and had become desperate he admitted to her it was true. She asked him if she could pray for him and while I am writing about this story from memory I do recall that when the doctor prayed for him he was completely healed and knew that it was the Lord Jesus Christ who had healed him!
It seems to me as I recall that this man who was healed decided not accept Jesus Christ as his savior even after God saving his life but chose to move to another city as he could not stay in the same city with the more powerful witch who had almost killed him. It is sad to say that not everyone who sees the power of God and even knows God saved their life, is willing to give up witchcraft. What they do not realize is that ultimately it will lead to their eternal destruction.
Thank you for reading. I hope to return later (God willing) and continue the discussion.
Dude...I am so not going down another rabbit hole with you. The point is that you seem to have this concept of witches, and witchcraft that belongs in a fantasy novel, not the real world. Allow me to clue you in. I am 50 years old. Do you know how many magickal battles I have been in during my life?
Exactly. Zero. It just doesn't
work that way in the real world.
I'm not asking you to go down any rabbit hole, Cern. I merely responded to your reply because what you said was not accurate. In response to your claim that I have a concept about witches and witchcraft that belong in a fantasy novel, I have to tell you that this isn't my concept. What I've given you is the testimonies of people who have prayed for people in witchcraft who have come under attack through spells, hexes, psychic attacks, etc. You say that you have never been in a magickal battle with anyone.
Have you ever been under a psychic attack from another witch? Have you ever been the recipient of someone trying to harm you through witchcraft? Have you ever tried to harm anyone by using a spell to retaliate in response to something that someone did to you? You need not answer those questions I am merely clarifying what I meant in my recounting the testimony of a doctor who ministered to people in a hospital where she witnessed and encountered patients who had come under such an attack.
In fact, there is a former high level Witch named Bill Schnoebelen who wrote an entire book about Wicca. It's called Wicca, Satan's little lie and is available online. Bill states that in his experience as a witch this was a constant problem. He didn't call them magickal battles. He called them psychic attacks / pyschic wars. In his book Bill writes about his coven and the trouble of Witches covens in psychic wars that plagued his city:
But we were never really at peace. We did all the right things and tried to help our people grow, but they never seemed fulfilled either. They acted happy, but their eyes were dark and hollow. They said they were fulfilled but their lives denied it. We were the ONLY married couple in Wicca that didn't get divorced!
Sadly, a majority of the people we tried to help got worse! Many of them became either so filled with their own egos that they could not relate to anyone else or they sank into the mire of drugs or liquor. To or three went quite insane!
in Milwaukee, we had psychic wars between groups. Witches were shooting at each other in the streets because of adultery. Curses were filling the air like mosquitos on a hot Wisconsin night!
Pagans like to make fun of Catholics because of all the wars they started, but the only difference between the Pagans and the Catholics is that the Pagans never ran a government and had the power to raise armies.
I used to read THE GREEN EGG, Tim Zell's Neo-Pagan magazine. Almost every issue contained a vicious feud in the letter columns.
Why? Because you are dealing with sinful, fallen human beings,that's why! God says the human heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things (Jeremiah 17:9).
You may not call yourself a Satanist, but if you have not made Jesus Christ your Lord and Master,then Satan is your lord and master. We learned this the hard way! - Bill Schoenbelen Wicca Satan's little White Lie
So there you have it. One man who was the head of a coven in Wisconsin and a very powerful witch who gave his life to Jesus Christ and says that these feuds between witches /covens was a major problem.
Well, I can only speak fro my personal experience, 20 years as a wytch. Have I ever tried to harm anyone? Nope. Not that I haven't been tempted. I have just never been in a situation in which it was worth it. Have you, in all your studies, ever heard of the Witch's Rede? There are two lines that are important, in regards to this discussion:
"Mind the Three-fold Laws you should three times bad and three times good.", and "These Eight words the Rede fulfill: 'An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will'"
Now, a lot of your bubblegum, fluffy-bununy witches will insisthat this is a warning to never hurt anyone. However, that is simply not the case. The finally line is pretty self-explanatory - if you are not hurting anyone, you do you. It's all good. Okay. However, remember when I said that humans are notoriously short-sighted? Well, that is pretty much true of all of us.n So, here is the question: How do you know? How do you know if an action you take, whether magickal, or mundane (and, no, the Rede is
not restricted to only magickal actions; it is a guide for
every decision that a wytch ever makes), is going to hurt someone one? The simple answer is, you can't. Oh! You can be certain about the immediate effects of any choice, but what about the longer effects, what about the effect it has on peripheral individuals that you didn't think of, or possibly know about? So, does this mean that a wytch can never do anything?
This is where the second line comes into play - the 'three-fold law". The three-fold law is pretty straight forward. Anything you do, whether for good, or for ill,
will come back to you three times over. The Hindus called it Kharma. Even the Jews have a version of it, although they expand it to 7-fold. But, it's a pretty universal concept. So, now the question becomes, if what I want to do worth the consequences? If it is, go for it. Just be aware that you made a choice, and what comes next is entirely on you. If it isn't, then don't.
This brings us back to your question have I ever harmed anyone. I have, in 30 years, only
intentionally harmed one person, and that was indirectly. And I paid the price for it. Willingly. Now, have I unintentionally harmed anyone? Possibly. Like I said, my ability to follow my actions to the results of every single person that those actions will ever have an effect on is limited. See, contrary to what you may believe, witchcraft isn't about power. It is about balance, and personal responsibility.
I'd like to ask you a two part question about the Witch's Rede before you go. You've asked me quite a few questions (4 or 5 at the beginning of our dialogue) and then the question about my being a bible literalist. So if you would allow me to ask you the two part question about the Witch's Rede that you mentioned is a part of your belief system, I believe that would be fair.
Let me know. Thank you.
Ask away.
Thank you. I am going to quote your definition of the Witch's Rede first. Here you say:
Have you, in all your studies, ever heard of the Witch's Rede? There are two lines that are important, in regards to this discussion:
"Mind the Three-fold Laws you should three times bad and three times good.", and "These Eight words the Rede fulfill: 'An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will'"
Now, a lot of your bubblegum, fluffy-bununy witches will insist that this is a warning to never hurt anyone. However, that is simply not the case. The finally line is pretty self-explanatory - if you are not hurting anyone, you do you. It's all good. Okay. However, remember when I said that humans are notoriously short-sighted? Well, that is pretty much true of all of us.n So, here is the question: How do you know? How do you know if an action you take, whether magickal, or mundane (and, no, the Rede is
not restricted to only magickal actions; it is a guide for
every decision that a wytch ever makes), is going to hurt someone one? The simple answer is, you can't. Oh! You can be certain about the immediate effects of any choice, but what about the longer effects, what about the effect it has on peripheral individuals that you didn't think of, or possibly know about? So, does this mean that a wytch can never do anything?
___________
Here is part one of my question,Cern. The Witch's Rede you quote clearly states do no harm. You wrote:
"These Eight words the Rede fulfill: 'An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will'"
First of all, the Thou Shalt Not's of the Bible are not there because God wants to make our lives miserable. The commandments of God are there to protect us and keep us from harm. So when God gave commands to his children against the Pagan use of blood-letting it was with very good reason. God knew that the Pagans were practicing blood sacrifice of some sort and that those practices led to their desire to sacrifice their own children to Molech. Evil leads people in one direction. To darker and darker practices / actions.
The word bloodlust describes the current environment of America and this nation is full of witchcraft and Baal worship of many kinds. How can a Pagan base their religion on Harm no one, do what ye will? The second part of that motto comes from Aleister Crowley whose own doctrines are mixed with Wicca through Gerald Gardner and it is the creed of Satanists. That they do what they will, whatever they want to do, that they can do. Right? And Wicca is using the same creed in the second half of that statement as you can see.
Now how can you harm none and still do what you will do when considering that Pagan's participate in blood sacrifice of animals (and humans in some covens), use their spells, hexes, incantations to harm others (not all but some do) or bring about an outcome that is of their own will over someone else's will.
Isn't the killing of an animal or human during a ritual doing harm? Isn't casting a spell to cause someone to get into a car accident or die doing harm? Again, this is not about you but about being a Pagan and what some people who are Pagans and involved in witchcraft do.
What about the witch that does none of these things. They are pantheists which believe that plants, rocks and animals are just as deserving of respect as humans. Is that possible to do no harm? Jain monks carry a broom wherever they walk sweeping the ground in front of them so they won't step on an ant. What if the broom they are using crushes the ant and it dies anyway? Their broom killed the ant and now they are stuck worrying about the "karma" they will get from that one act. Due to their belief in reincarnation (another lie).
What about the illegal drugs that witches use? The use of LSD, hashish, which are used often in the higher degrees, for ritual purposes according to former witches who are now followers of Jesus Christ?
What about the lies from Wiccan leaders who have denied the use of drugs even though there are stories such as one priestess who was kicked out of one of (former Witch) Bill Schoenbelen's covens because it was determined that she was a Narc turning in people inside the coven for using drugs. Law abiding citizens? Do not harm yet do what you will? It's a contradiction of the highest order.
One of the most common ritualistic reasons for getting high is to do what used to be called gaining the sight. It is also what occultists call opening the third eye according to Schoenbelen. The hallucinogenic drugs do that. Drug free? In the "bible" of Wicca, the Book of Shadows there is a ritual for gaining this "sight." The eight fold path includes Drugs, Rituals, Trance, Sex Magic ...... I find that the women who are Pagans (and the men) are very outspoken about the right to kill the unborn. I've never heard of a Pagan coven coming forward to fight to save the lives of unborn babies and stop abortions. They are a big part of the feminist movement - The Females are the Future - bunch and are pro- murder - defending murderous organizations such as Planned Parenthood. Do no harm but you can do what you will?
It is a major contradiction, Cern, and the height of hypocrisy. Can you explain to me how you reconcile the two when one creed is the antithesis of the other within the very same creed?
My second question to you is about the 3 fold law. You say:
The finally line is pretty self-explanatory - if you are not hurting anyone, you do you. It's all good. Okay. However, remember when I said that humans are notoriously short-sighted? Well, that is pretty much true of all of us.n So, here is the question: How do you know? How do you know if an action you take, whether magickal, or mundane (and, no, the Rede is
not restricted to only magickal actions; it is a guide for
every decision that a wytch ever makes), is going to hurt someone one? The simple answer is, you can't. Oh! You can be certain about the immediate effects of any choice, but what about the longer effects, what about the effect it has on peripheral individuals that you didn't think of, or possibly know about? So, does this mean that a wytch can never do anything?
This is where the second line comes into play - the 'three-fold law". The three-fold law is pretty straight forward. Anything you do, whether for good, or for ill,
will come back to you three times over. The Hindus called it Kharma. Even the Jews have a version of it, although they expand it to 7-fold. But, it's a pretty universal concept. So, now the question becomes, if what I want to do worth the consequences? If it is, go for it. Just be aware that you made a choice, and what comes next is entirely on you. If it isn't, then don't. - end quote
_____
Let's look at this three fold law, Cern. Anything you do, whether good, or for ill, will come back to you three times over. You then say, now the question becomes, is what I want to do worth the consequences? If it is, go for it. What about do no harm? The three fold law pretty much suspends it while acting in revenge 3 times greater than the harm that was inflicted on said witch. Correct? And according to this 3 fold law the witch is justified in his or her actions so long as they accept what will come back on them. Interesting. Harm none? How do you reconcile this one? You cannot.
As much as you would like for Paganism to appear to be for "enlightened" people it is truly living in darkness and as one remains in it the darkness becomes greater and greater and greater until the person loses their sanity or does great harm to another human being. Which is why I'm wondering why you cannot see the harm that is being done concerning witchcraft.
How do you know that you are not in danger? Jesus said that anyone who is not with him is against him (Matthew 12:30) To be "with" Jesus is to accept him as your Lord and Savior and make him the Lord of your life. Do you not consider being an enemy of God to be in great danger?
God is very clear that we are not to have anything to do with witchcraft,Cern. The Lord has shown me witches in churches who were in there for the sole purpose of speaking curses against people. When I prayed against their witchcraft and destroyed those curses they went to the pastor and complained that I was praying against them! They were upset that their curses were no longer working against the people!
Because those witches were members of the church for a long time (and at least one was on the Board of Directors and another was an adult Sunday School teacher) the Pastor believed them and turned against me! These people were very adept at deception, pretending to be Christians who were being victimized. I believe they were accusing me of the very thing they were doing. They couldn't get away with destroying marriages, putting sicknesses on people and destroying the church while my prayers were destroying their curses and witchcraft. Eventually the Lord told me to leave and shake the dust from my feet. I did. Many months later after I had left I learned that at least one marriage was destroyed while some other members decided to leave. Too bad the Pastor didn't have the discernment to see what was going on inside his own church. There is a reason why you'll find your fellow Pagans despise Christians, Cern. The demons inside of them despise Jesus Christ and want to harm his children. They sit in those churches muttering curses on those around them and the people of God sitting in the churches have no idea of what is going on. I've seen this happen with my own eyes.
Do no harm? I suppose that depends upon whether it is an unborn baby, a born again Christian, the local Christian church or one of your own but truly the Witch's Rede and the three fold law appear to be in great contradiction of one another.
Have can you follow the 3 fold law and still believe in harm no one? Can you do both? I do not believe it is possible.
