georgephillip
Diamond Member
Are you capable of comprehending the difference between a Jewish homeland and a Jewish state?
Oy! Those Crafty Jews!
- Thread starter Captain Creeper
- Start date
toomuchtime_
Platinum Member
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Always. The persecution of Jews has been a core value of Islamic religion, culture and law since the 6th century.
From the early years of Islamic civilization, Muslim jurists, basing on Qur’anic directives, devised an elaborate hierarchy in which monotheistic non-Muslims, such as Christians and Jews, would be “protected” at a low level and tolerated as second-class citizens. Guidelines for their treatment were embodied in the “Pact of ‘Umar.” Limitations on the status of non-Muslims included discriminatory clothing regulations and occupational restrictions. Non-Muslims were required to pay a poll tax (jizya) as well as discriminatory taxes on agricultural produce.
“Ornament of the World” and the Jews of Spain
At times tolerant, at other times intensely intolerant, Spain’s intergroup relations formed a fragile coexistence of Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Although often tenuous, the coexistence of diverse languages, peoples, and religions produced an extraordinary symbiosis and distinctive...
www.neh.gov
The persecution and humiliation of Jews was still a core value of Islamic religion, culture and law when European Jews began arriving in greater numbers in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but these European Jews refused to submit to it and the Arabs refused to live in peace with these Jews who would not accept their place as second class citizens.
toomuchtime_
Platinum Member
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It became impossible to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine without forming a Jewish state because of the Arabs' refusal to live in peace with Jews and the British refusal to keep their promise to help establish a Jewish homeland. The relentless Arab attacks all through the 1920's made it clear that there could only be a Jewish homeland in Palestine if it were protected by a Jewish state.
San Souci
Diamond Member
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Good point
georgephillip
Diamond Member
A Jewish homeland would exist within a multi-ethnic or shared political framework, compatible with Arab political rights in Palestine.
It left open whether Jews would be a majority or minority.
Zionists argued from the very beginning they would not accept an Arab majority in their state, choosing instead to exclude or subordinate other populations.
ChatGPT:
"That gap—between cultural presence and political dominance—is one of the central tensions that has shaped the conflict for over a century."
Those who say "Free Palestine" are really saying "Destroy Israel."You sound like an apologist for white supremacy; are you?
Anti-Semitism is recognizing a Jewish supremacist state has the same right to exist as white South Africa or Nazi Germany:
Zionism is White Supremacy
"The defining feature of the past 500 years of human history has been the violent, exploitative, and genocidal project of European domination of the world.
"The normalization of this system of white supremacy is carried out by characterizing white people’s oppressive acts as mistakes by otherwise morally righteous people"
In the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis I side with Israelis. The Israelis are people like me. The Palestinians are not.
georgephillip
Diamond Member
You are describing centuries of Arab rule as a tolerant but unequal coexistence between Muslims and dhimmis, not a genocidal persecution of Arabs like what Israeli Jews are perpetrating today on the West Bank and in Gaza:Always. The persecution of Jews has been a core value of Islamic religion, culture and law since the 6th century.
From the early years of Islamic civilization, Muslim jurists, basing on Qur’anic directives, devised an elaborate hierarchy in which monotheistic non-Muslims, such as Christians and Jews, would be “protected” at a low level and tolerated as second-class citizens. Guidelines for their treatment were embodied in the “Pact of ‘Umar.” Limitations on the status of non-Muslims included discriminatory clothing regulations and occupational restrictions. Non-Muslims were required to pay a poll tax (jizya) as well as discriminatory taxes on agricultural produce.
“Ornament of the World” and the Jews of Spain
At times tolerant, at other times intensely intolerant, Spain’s intergroup relations formed a fragile coexistence of Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Although often tenuous, the coexistence of diverse languages, peoples, and religions produced an extraordinary symbiosis and distinctive...
The persecution and humiliation of Jews was still a core value of Islamic religion, culture and law when European Jews began arriving in greater numbers in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but these European Jews refused to submit to it and the Arabs refused to live in peace with these Jews who would not accept their place as second class citizens.
ChatGPT:
"2. Everyday life: often integrated
"In many parts of the Middle East and North Africa, Jewish communities lived among Arab المسلمين (Muslims) for centuries:
- "In cities like Baghdad, Cairo, and Fez, Jews were merchants, artisans, and scholars integrated into local society.
- Arabic was often the shared language, and cultural exchange was common.
- There were long stretches with little to no large-scale communal violence."
georgephillip
Diamond Member
Do you have white skin?
toomuchtime_
Platinum Member
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I assume you are referring to the UN debate about the Partition Resolution in 1947. At that time there were no Arab majority states in which Jews had equal rights with Muslims and there hadn't been for 1400 years and during the debate the Arabs refused to guarantee equal rights for Jews let alone a Jewish homeland in any state they controlled. Clearly, there could be no Jewish homeland without a Jewish state in Palestine.
toomuchtime_
Platinum Member
- Dec 29, 2008
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Just how many times do you want to tell us you are too stupid to understand the definition of the word, genocide?
AI Overview
Genocide is a specific legal term defined by the 1948 Genocide Convention (Article II) as acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group. These acts include killing, causing serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about physical destruction, imposing measures to prevent births, or forcibly transferring children.
Core Legal Elements of Genocide
- Intent to Destroy: The perpetrator must have the intent to physically destroy a group as such, not just individual members. This is the hardest part to prove.
- Targeted Groups: The law specifically protects national, ethnical, racial, or religious
groups. Other groups, such as political, social, or economic groups, are not included in this definition.- Protected Acts (Article II):
- Killing: Murdering members of the group.
- Bodily/Mental Harm: Causing severe physical or mental damage.
- Conditions of Life: Deliberately inflicting conditions (e.g., starvation, denial of medical care) to cause physical destruction.
- Preventing Births: Imposing measures to stop reproduction.
- Forcibly Transferring Children: Moving children out of the group to another group.
ohchr +5
- Protected Acts (Article II):
- Genocide itself.
- Conspiracy to commit genocide.
- Direct and public incitement to commit genocide.
- Attempt to commit genocide.
- Complicity in genocide.
ohchr +2
The term was coined by Polish lawyer Raphael Lemkin in 1944. While often used colloquially to describe mass murder, the legal definition requires the specific intent to destroy the group's existence. The United States defines genocide in 18 U.S.C. 1091, prohibiting such actions in both peace and wartime.
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another grou...
ohchr
What is ge
Churchill
Platinum Member
Why do you care about the state of Israel more than you do about your own country?
Oy! Those Crafty Jews
Antisemitism is an ancient concept which has just now moved back above the fold.www.americanthinker.com
I place this post here, in Current Events, because expressing hatred for Jews is in the news a lot these days. Hating on Jews has been a favorite pastime for many a folk with grievance for quite a long time. The last really big anti-Jew movement was back during the 1930s and 1940s. But then Hitler screwed it up by taking it too far. Today's Jew hatred is based upon the Muslim model. Since it has gotten really ramped up, you now see all sorts of Jew hatred crawling out of the woodwork, both from the right and the left. A lot of folks out there just PLAIN HATE THE JEWS!
I have long espoused the theory that the term "Zionism" is a dog-whistle for anti-Semitism. It is code. You will read people condemning Zionism vehemently, then ridiculously arguing that it does not equate to antisemitism. Then, if you disagree with them and their objections to so-called "Zionism", the claim "Well, you just don't understand, man...". In all of their morass of pseudo-intellectual garbage there are 2 facts. First, the people who espouse anti-Zionism are either (a) Muslims who want to violently murder all Jews, or (b) antisemitic bigots. Second, the non-muslim antisemitic bigots' intellectual capacity is right on par with the run-of-the-mill conspiratorialist. Sure, such a person may be "intelligent" in some form. But they are too goofy to know their limitations or too brain-fried to discipline their work with logic.
What is Zionism? It essentially is a broad notion that Jews have a right to a homeland and self-determination free of those people who want to murder them. In fact, the UN agreed with them in 1947 and recognized Israel as the Jewish state. This entire idea is not knew. For example, Russia has been barbarically invaded for centuries. As a result, they like to have a buffer around them. Most recently with the Soviet Union, the used the Eastern European countries (the spoils of Stalin's campaign to destroy the Nazis). Even today you see the tendency in Putin to want to buffer Russia's borders. Likewise, the Jews desired a peaceful existence, secure from all of the antisemitic violence that had stalked them for centuries. Thus, in theory, this is pretty sound thinking and quite rational.
What about Zionism in practice? What, if any, non-Jews are disadvantaged by Israel's Zionism? In my opinion, nobody worth a damn is affected. Essentially, you have the descendants of nomadic Arabs in the Gaza, the West Bank, and Golan Heights. These people want to violently murder all Jews and their children. Why? Are they just a wee bit miffed over Zionistic dislocation? If so, then today's antizionists may have some degree of a point. However, anti-Jewish hatred and violence long predates Zionism. They hate the Jews. Period.
Gazans essentially had self-rule over Gaza a couple of years ago when Hamas sent murderers across their border and into Israel to murder, rape, and kidnap innocents. Reprisal for Zionism? I think not. The fact is that the so-called Palestinian people could have had their own sovereign state YEARS AGO (under Arafat) had they simply played ball. But they did not. They allowed themselves to fall victim to their hatred of Jews and largely lost the opportunity, and all because they refused to acknowledge Israel's right to exist (which every nation-state on Earth already acknowledged). Instead, they were necessarily subjected to Israeli security actions. They were not oppressed by Israel at this time. But Hamas had proven itself to be so dangerous and irrational that Israel had to take action. It would have been malfeasance if they did not act to protect themselves.
As I previously mentioned, there are 2 types of people who rant about Zionism. First, there are the Jew-hating muslims. They are a lost cause. No rehabilitation for them is possible as a group. Then there are the non-muslim goof balls. I wonder about these people. What kind of nitwit, in light of the facts I set forth herein and the modern history of this region, can actually rant at Israel over Zionism. Are they completely stupid? I will say this: When these people are confronted with fact and educated argument, they (1) get angry, thereby exposing and irrational bias; and (2) resort to the simplistic mantra "Zionism". The term "Zionism" itself is quite open to interpretation. Does the term genuinely include all the mischief alleged by the antizionists, or are they misusing, and abusing the term, to justify their anti-Semitic bigotry?
Think about this. Who benefits from anti-Zionism? The so-called Palestinians people, who are led by Hamas, a violent Jihadist terror group. Why is Hamas leading the Palestinian people (at least, in Gaza)" Because the "Palestinian" people want them to lead. Are the West Bank Arabs any better off under the PA? They do tend to be a little more tightly wrapped. But they are just as giddy about murdering Jews. These people would gladly blow up and otherwise murder Christians, gays, women, whatever does not comport to their beliefs. They are not good people. They are not civilized. They are not democratic. They are a bunch of Fred Flintstones. Even other Arab countries do not want them. THIS IS WHO YOU ANTI-ZIONIST PEOPLE ARE ALIGNING YOURSELVES WITH. That is DISGUSTING.
Anything that diminishes Israel's right to defend its people, even with the strictest interpretation of Zionism you want to give it, is asking Israel to sacrifice some of its own people. I can think of little more than is more anti-Semitic than this, other than gas chambers and ovens. Therein lies the rub. With each and every one of you antizionist ding-dongs out there, the result of you getting your way is that there will be more dead Jews. And you clearly do not have a problem with this.
Answer, you are a traitor.
My skin is mildly pink.
Dogmaphobe
Diamond Member
Is your own skin olive, oh Islamist hater of Jews?
Who says Hector cares more about America than Israel? Disarming the Islamic Savage Regime helps America and Israel, both.
Hafar1014
Diamond Member
- Sep 1, 2010
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Iran is a threat to the entire workld and part of the axis of evil with China and Russia
I think Israeli Jews should deport Palestinian Arabs. There is plenty of room for them in the Arab world.
I don’t understand that antisemite’s point. He thinks Jews can’t be white?
I think Egypt should take them, but they’ve built a wall to keep them out. NOBODY wants these backwards, hateful people.
Dogmaphobe
Diamond Member
All he knows is that he hates Jews. Nothing else matters.
He talks about nothing else in this forum, and like so many others here, it is the singularity of purpose that reveals all.
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