Overeducated And Unemployed

[Si modo]

and unemployable because you're over-educated for the position. Especially today, when most applications are online, so you cannot express your desire, need to be loyal for a period of time you'd commit to. It's been happening to me all summer. Yes, I'd work in supermarket, I've done it before. I need the benefits and would need the second job for at least 18 months-2 years, AFTER I find a full-time teaching position. But now I've 3 BA's and a MS, so can't get part-time hire, at least so far.

Mebbe you need not reveal all your degrees, Annie. I don't see why failing to disclose you have more degrees than a thermometer would be deceptive. I feel ya, believe me....I hope you find something ASAP.

Maybe, but you need to account for time, besides my last employer was for 11 years and would give my credentials. Tricky game that is.

You are being wise in refusing advice to be anything less than forthright in this matter.

 

[Annie]

Well I got my pin # from 'subfinder' for the first district Thur. That day I booked for 1/2 day Friday and Tuesday-all day. This morning I booked for this morning. Good news is all those jobs were in High Schools, bad news is they were all spec. ed. Now I don't mind spec ed at all, I like the kids and have never had a bad experience with them-I subbed 2 years full time and also taught an 'at risk' program for upper classmen in evenings for those 2 years, (at risk usually means spec ed, often BD). So I really have pretty good background with management issues, not mentioning all the undiagnosed kids from 11 years in parochial school.

However, I really want to teach social studies/language arts.

Now one might wonder, don't 'regular' teachers call in? Yes, but departments have 'their subs' they call off their own lists, so they'll only end up with 'subfinder' when they can't get their favorites. Spec Ed? Well not many want to do, especially in high schools. So, it's a foot in the door and shows 'adaptability'. It also pays, which is a very good thing right now.

Now, if I can only get a part-time job with benefits.

 

[Madeline]

Law schools are doing just what the promise. They graduate lawyers who can pass the bar. If you are not within the top 1% the big prestigious firms are not going to even look at you.

No, they are not doing as promised...not unless you think 99% of the class was there just to glorify 1%. Few people attend law school with no desire to ever practice law.

That is not what i meant. The glut of law students in my opinion is about vanity. ( or stupidity) rather like an art degree. Fun, easy but will most likely get you nowhere.

It is not "fun" and it is not "easy". Kindly stop pissing on my education and skills.

 

[Mini 14]

when it comes times for my kids to do college I will have serious issues if they decide to do liberal arts, business, or any similar nonsense.

This can't turn out any way but good for all of you.

 

[Madeline]

Grads taking law schools to task for poor job market - USATODAY.com

My thought is, close some goddamned law schools. Whose interests are served by graduating so many that will never find jobs as lawyers?

Had that same conversation with a new personal injury attorney who is a huge Obama supporter.

"What did you expect?"

Dude's looking for a job as an "analyst" now, but thinks $50K is beneath him. I told him that "education is expensive," and he replied that he understood and he's $110K in debt.

"That's what your degree cost you and you haven't even gotten an education yet."

That number does not surprise me at all, asterism. I think it is evil and should be illegal to admit 500% more students into law schools than the market can ever hope to absorb as lawyers.

Close some law schools! At least 25% of them....50% would be more in line with what people will actually need, especially with more and more legal work being sent overseas.

 

[Annie]

Grads taking law schools to task for poor job market - USATODAY.com

My thought is, close some goddamned law schools. Whose interests are served by graduating so many that will never find jobs as lawyers?

Had that same conversation with a new personal injury attorney who is a huge Obama supporter.

"What did you expect?"

Dude's looking for a job as an "analyst" now, but thinks $50K is beneath him. I told him that "education is expensive," and he replied that he understood and he's $110K in debt.

"That's what your degree cost you and you haven't even gotten an education yet."

That number does not surprise me at all, asterism. I think it is evil and should be illegal to admit 500% more students into law schools than the market can ever hope to absorb as lawyers.

Close some law schools! At least 25% of them....50% would be more in line with what people will actually need, especially with more and more legal work being sent overseas.

But, the demand for law schools is there. No bubble that would push towards closing. Indeed, for most universities, law schools are money makers.

My niece got her MBA from FSU. Then worked two years for an international trader. Then went to law school, again FSU. Took a semester at Columbia in second year, summer interned at Cahill, Gordon, and Reindel. Was offered position after graduation from FSU. Yes, she graduated at top of her class. She started at over $200k and works about 90 hours a week. Like teaching, some of it is choosing what you wish to specialize in and then working your butt off.

 

[Mini 14]

Grads taking law schools to task for poor job market - USATODAY.com

My thought is, close some goddamned law schools. Whose interests are served by graduating so many that will never find jobs as lawyers?

Had that same conversation with a new personal injury attorney who is a huge Obama supporter.

"What did you expect?"

Dude's looking for a job as an "analyst" now, but thinks $50K is beneath him. I told him that "education is expensive," and he replied that he understood and he's $110K in debt.

"That's what your degree cost you and you haven't even gotten an education yet."

That number does not surprise me at all, asterism. I think it is evil and should be illegal to admit 500% more students into law schools than the market can ever hope to absorb as lawyers.

Close some law schools! At least 25% of them....50% would be more in line with what people will actually need, especially with more and more legal work being sent overseas.

I think we should nationalize legal representation. The government can set the fees, and we can require that every citizen retain a lawyer, or be fined. We'll wind up with better lawyers, and plenty of jobs for those better lawyers, right?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Grads taking law schools to task for poor job market - USATODAY.com

My thought is, close some goddamned law schools. Whose interests are served by graduating so many that will never find jobs as lawyers?

The students chose to pay tuition to the law school. If they graduated with a degree and a working knowledge of the subject matter then the students got exactly what they paid for.

It's not the responsibility of the school to restrict the number of graduates because of the job market.

 

[Mini 14]

Why do I get the feeling that the underlying sentiment of this entire thread is "They're too stupid to make a wise career choice, though they're certainly smart enough to pass the Bar"?

There are a thousand lawyer jokes just waiting to burst from this thread.

 

[midcan5]

There is an interesting side to this issue that gets no play in our social media either. People who do not retire. In the law field, I'm not sure of exact statistics, but I know a few lawyers who are way past normal retirement and have no desire to retire. They have comfortable positions in big firms, travel lots, and simply enjoy doing what they know. Let's face it, law is not roofing.

But also many of our seniors cannot afford to retire, they either didn't plan well or make enough to save lots. Corporations are getting rid of pensions, unions are dying, and the worker in America is marginalized. Personally I have been lucky in life, I started before social Darwinism in its worst form became the way of life.

Also there is the question of healthcare and health expense on retirement. Again I know some people, so I assume there are lots, who work past retirement because our healthcare system sucks but costs too much.

There are lots of baby boomers who will have to work a long time just to live. Anyone see 60 minutes on the 99ers? They all had degrees and some Phds but no job. If all work is done overseas and we all buy cheap foreign, then there is only so much work here. And unless we start rebuilding America by raising taxes on the wealthy and corporations we will moan and moan and moan. Well some will, others will be like Scrooge McDuck wallowing in money.

 

[Si modo]

Grads taking law schools to task for poor job market - USATODAY.com

My thought is, close some goddamned law schools. Whose interests are served by graduating so many that will never find jobs as lawyers?

Had that same conversation with a new personal injury attorney who is a huge Obama supporter.

"What did you expect?"

Dude's looking for a job as an "analyst" now, but thinks $50K is beneath him. I told him that "education is expensive," and he replied that he understood and he's $110K in debt.

"That's what your degree cost you and you haven't even gotten an education yet."

That number does not surprise me at all, asterism. I think it is evil and should be illegal to admit 500% more students into law schools than the market can ever hope to absorb as lawyers.

Close some law schools! At least 25% of them....50% would be more in line with what people will actually need, especially with more and more legal work being sent overseas.

I find it amazing that one would think it's 'evil' to admit students into a curriculum of their choosing (assuming they are qualified (adequate LSAT scores and undergrad GPA) as they seem to be able to graduate).

It's simply an amazing view to me.

The demand for the curriculum obviously is there and as universities are in the business of providing education, they will meet that curriculum demand.

Of course, the Soviets dictated what field of study a student would pursue based on the state's needs (and the students' skills) and that seemed to work for the USSR.

 

[Madeline]

Why do I get the feeling that the underlying sentiment of this entire thread is "They're too stupid to make a wise career choice, though they're certainly smart enough to pass the Bar"?

There are a thousand lawyer jokes just waiting to burst from this thread.

Law schools are not the only type of high ed that is way over capacity, Mini. Just the only one I had read a story about yesterday. As it happens, we have had lively discussions about what the proper role of higher ed should be in the US on USMB before but I'll be damned if I can figure out how to find that other thread.

IMO, any relation between high ed capacity and actual job market in the US is purely coincidental.

 

[Madeline]

Had that same conversation with a new personal injury attorney who is a huge Obama supporter.

"What did you expect?"

Dude's looking for a job as an "analyst" now, but thinks $50K is beneath him. I told him that "education is expensive," and he replied that he understood and he's $110K in debt.

"That's what your degree cost you and you haven't even gotten an education yet."

That number does not surprise me at all, asterism. I think it is evil and should be illegal to admit 500% more students into law schools than the market can ever hope to absorb as lawyers.

Close some law schools! At least 25% of them....50% would be more in line with what people will actually need, especially with more and more legal work being sent overseas.

I find it amazing that one would think it's 'evil' to admit students into a curriculum of their choosing (assuming they are qualified (adequate LSAT scores and undergrad GPA) as they seem to be able to graduate).

It's simply an amazing view to me.

The demand for the curriculum obviously is there and as universities are in the business of providing education, they will meet that curriculum demand.

Of course, the Soviets dictated what field of study a student would pursue based on the state's needs (and the students' skills) and that seemed to work for the USSR.

99% of students do not see law school as a $100,000+ finishing school.

 

[Mini 14]

Why do I get the feeling that the underlying sentiment of this entire thread is "They're too stupid to make a wise career choice, though they're certainly smart enough to pass the Bar"?

There are a thousand lawyer jokes just waiting to burst from this thread.

Law schools are not the only type of high ed that is way over capacity, Mini. Just the only one I had read a story about yesterday. As it happens, we have had lively discussions about what the proper role of higher ed should be in the US on USMB before but I'll be damned if I can figure out how to find that other thread.

IMO, any relation between high ed capacity and actual job market in the US is purely coincidental.

Then we should look at nationalizing ALL of them, not just law.

Maybe Russia had it right?

Maybe "we" are better at determining a person's contribution to Society rather than allowing them to choose their own career?

 

[Madeline]

Why do I get the feeling that the underlying sentiment of this entire thread is "They're too stupid to make a wise career choice, though they're certainly smart enough to pass the Bar"?

There are a thousand lawyer jokes just waiting to burst from this thread.

Law schools are not the only type of high ed that is way over capacity, Mini. Just the only one I had read a story about yesterday. As it happens, we have had lively discussions about what the proper role of higher ed should be in the US on USMB before but I'll be damned if I can figure out how to find that other thread.

IMO, any relation between high ed capacity and actual job market in the US is purely coincidental.

Then we should look at nationalizing ALL of them, not just law.

Maybe Russia had it right?

Maybe "we" are better at determining a person's contribution to Society rather than allowing them to choose their own career?

No, Mini. But we do not graduate 500,000 people a year with sparkling new degrees in buggy whip manufacturing and $100,000 debt load because the market has no demand for their new skills.

Here's a great discussion of how we got into this mess, how bad it is, and what must be done to fix it (close many law schools)......

Too Many Lawyers? Too Many Law Schools? - ProfessorBainbridge.com

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

Then again its to many kids thinking they are going to make easy fast money as a lawyer.

They are brought up in a society which has taught them this is their best option, dont blame the kids, blame society...

 

[Mini 14]

Law schools are not the only type of high ed that is way over capacity, Mini. Just the only one I had read a story about yesterday. As it happens, we have had lively discussions about what the proper role of higher ed should be in the US on USMB before but I'll be damned if I can figure out how to find that other thread.

IMO, any relation between high ed capacity and actual job market in the US is purely coincidental.

Then we should look at nationalizing ALL of them, not just law.

Maybe Russia had it right?

Maybe "we" are better at determining a person's contribution to Society rather than allowing them to choose their own career?

No, Mini. But we do not graduate 500,000 people a year with sparkling new degrees in buggy whip manufacturing and $100,000 debt load because the market has no demand for their new skills.

Here's a great discussion of how we got into this mess, how bad it is, and what must be done to fix it (close many law schools)......

Too Many Lawyers? Too Many Law Schools? - ProfessorBainbridge.com

When there are too many lawyers, the schools will close themselves.

Evidently, we don't have enough yet.

 

[Si modo]

That number does not surprise me at all, asterism. I think it is evil and should be illegal to admit 500% more students into law schools than the market can ever hope to absorb as lawyers.

Close some law schools! At least 25% of them....50% would be more in line with what people will actually need, especially with more and more legal work being sent overseas.

I find it amazing that one would think it's 'evil' to admit students into a curriculum of their choosing (assuming they are qualified (adequate LSAT scores and undergrad GPA) as they seem to be able to graduate).

It's simply an amazing view to me.

The demand for the curriculum obviously is there and as universities are in the business of providing education, they will meet that curriculum demand.

Of course, the Soviets dictated what field of study a student would pursue based on the state's needs (and the students' skills) and that seemed to work for the USSR.

99% of students do not see law school as a $100,000+ finishing school.

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

Law schools are not the only type of high ed that is way over capacity, Mini. Just the only one I had read a story about yesterday. As it happens, we have had lively discussions about what the proper role of higher ed should be in the US on USMB before but I'll be damned if I can figure out how to find that other thread.

IMO, any relation between high ed capacity and actual job market in the US is purely coincidental.

Then we should look at nationalizing ALL of them, not just law.

Maybe Russia had it right?

Maybe "we" are better at determining a person's contribution to Society rather than allowing them to choose their own career?

No, Mini. But we do not graduate 500,000 people a year with sparkling new degrees in buggy whip manufacturing and $100,000 debt load because the market has no demand for their new skills.

Here's a great discussion of how we got into this mess, how bad it is, and what must be done to fix it (close many law schools)......

Too Many Lawyers? Too Many Law Schools? - ProfessorBainbridge.com

Lets face it, the kids are being fooled into thinking there is a career for them in law or whatever, education is a business as much as anything else...

 

[Madeline]

Then we should look at nationalizing ALL of them, not just law.

Maybe Russia had it right?

Maybe "we" are better at determining a person's contribution to Society rather than allowing them to choose their own career?

No, Mini. But we do not graduate 500,000 people a year with sparkling new degrees in buggy whip manufacturing and $100,000 debt load because the market has no demand for their new skills.

Here's a great discussion of how we got into this mess, how bad it is, and what must be done to fix it (close many law schools)......

Too Many Lawyers? Too Many Law Schools? - ProfessorBainbridge.com

When there are too many lawyers, the schools will close themselves.

Evidently, we don't have enough yet.

That would seem logical, and yet it doesn't happen...not in legal education nor in many other fields. It assumes -- wrongly -- that students are driven by after-graduation market forces (most have no clue what their opportunities will be) and that colleges and universities exist to serve students. They do not.

These are little fiefdoms, especially state-supported schools, and they exist to serve the needs of those who deal with them year in and year out...the professors, administrators, DOE employees, etc. You face no less resistance in closing a college or university than you would in trying to shrink government in any other way, and for all the same irrational, venial reasons.