Overeducated And Unemployed

[Si modo]

Then we should look at nationalizing ALL of them, not just law.

Maybe Russia had it right?

Maybe "we" are better at determining a person's contribution to Society rather than allowing them to choose their own career?

No, Mini. But we do not graduate 500,000 people a year with sparkling new degrees in buggy whip manufacturing and $100,000 debt load because the market has no demand for their new skills.

Here's a great discussion of how we got into this mess, how bad it is, and what must be done to fix it (close many law schools)......

Too Many Lawyers? Too Many Law Schools? - ProfessorBainbridge.com

When there are too many lawyers, the schools will close themselves.

Evidently, we don't have enough yet.

Universities do not decide what their schools' capacities will be based on the job market for graduates; they do on the students' demand for a curriculum. That's just the way they roll.

 

[Mini 14]

No, Mini. But we do not graduate 500,000 people a year with sparkling new degrees in buggy whip manufacturing and $100,000 debt load because the market has no demand for their new skills.

Here's a great discussion of how we got into this mess, how bad it is, and what must be done to fix it (close many law schools)......

Too Many Lawyers? Too Many Law Schools? - ProfessorBainbridge.com

When there are too many lawyers, the schools will close themselves.

Evidently, we don't have enough yet.

Universities do not decide what their schools' capacities will be based on the job market for graduates; they do on the students' demand for a curriculum. That's just the way they roll.

That is exactly my point.

 

[Madeline]

When there are too many lawyers, the schools will close themselves.

Evidently, we don't have enough yet.

Universities do not decide what their schools' capacities will be based on the job market for graduates; they do on the students' demand for a curriculum. That's just the way they roll.

That is exactly my point.

MY point is, these schools suck up government funds for education few need, and destroy the lives of their students with useless degrees and loan debt that is crippling and inescapable. And that they do these evil things because it furthers the interests of the schools' employees and supervisors....not the taxpayers.

 

[Si modo]

When there are too many lawyers, the schools will close themselves.

Evidently, we don't have enough yet.

Universities do not decide what their schools' capacities will be based on the job market for graduates; they do on the students' demand for a curriculum. That's just the way they roll.

That is exactly my point.

 

[Intense]

When there are too many lawyers, the schools will close themselves.

Evidently, we don't have enough yet.

Universities do not decide what their schools' capacities will be based on the job market for graduates; they do on the students' demand for a curriculum. That's just the way they roll.

That is exactly my point.

A very expensive point at that. The bu$ine$$ of Government Loan$. .....Hmmmm.

 

[Si modo]

Universities do not decide what their schools' capacities will be based on the job market for graduates; they do on the students' demand for a curriculum. That's just the way they roll.

That is exactly my point.

MY point is, these schools suck up government funds for education few need, and destroy the lives of their students with useless degrees and loan debt that is crippling and inescapable. And that they do these evil things because it furthers the interests of the schools' employees and supervisors....not the taxpayers.

Still wanting to dictate the field of study for a student rather than the student him/herself, I see. Thumbs up, Comrade.

 

[Madeline]

Universities do not decide what their schools' capacities will be based on the job market for graduates; they do on the students' demand for a curriculum. That's just the way they roll.

That is exactly my point.

A very expensive point at that. The bu$ine$$ of Government Loan$. .....Hmmmm.

Yet another constituency that does not wish to see any law schools closed....lenders, servicing companies, collection agencies, etc. This is education policy made by highway robbers.

 

[zzzz]

There is no such thing as "over educated".

There sure as hell is such a thing as "unemployed".

and unemployable because you're over-educated for the position. Especially today, when most applications are online, so you cannot express your desire, need to be loyal for a period of time you'd commit to. It's been happening to me all summer. Yes, I'd work in supermarket, I've done it before. I need the benefits and would need the second job for at least 18 months-2 years, AFTER I find a full-time teaching position. But now I've 3 BA's and a MS, so can't get part-time hire, at least so far.

Ahh, not over educated, just over aged. Sorry.

 

[Mini 14]

When people no longer want to be lawyers, the schools will close.

Lawyers aren't rocket scientists. To expect them to see the forest through the trees is asking a little much, as their attention is drawn to each individual tree completely at every discovery.

There aren't near enough lawyers yet. If the going rate is $125/hour, we're about halfway to the point where the quantity of service will equalize the quality.

Keep 'em coming until an hour of legal counsel is affordable for everyone who needs it.

 

[Si modo]

When people no longer want to be lawyers, the schools will close.

Lawyers aren't rocket scientists. To expect them to see the forest through the trees is asking a little much, as their attention is drawn to each individual tree completely at every discovery.

There aren't near enough lawyers yet. If the going rate is $125/hour, we're about halfway to the point where the quantity of service will equalize the quality.

Keep 'em coming until an hour of legal counsel is affordable for everyone who needs it.

Another fan of big pictures, I see.

 

[editec]

Don't know what it looks like elsewhere, but here in Maine the help wanted MEDICAL advertisements exceed all other occupational areas combined.

How long that will last when the rest of the economy is in such trouble, I cannot say.

But in order for the medical community to continue thrive, the rest of society ALSO has to work.

 

[zzzz]

That is exactly my point.

MY point is, these schools suck up government funds for education few need, and destroy the lives of their students with useless degrees and loan debt that is crippling and inescapable. And that they do these evil things because it furthers the interests of the schools' employees and supervisors....not the taxpayers.

Still wanting to dictate the field of study for a student rather than the student him/herself, I see. Thumbs up, Comrade.

People still have the right to live the college experience. A job is ... What kind of job do you get for a History degree or an English degree, eh? Most kids don't really know what they want to do in life and college gives them a chance to explore life. How many people with law degrees still practice law? Law schools turn away many prospective students now, just think of the disappointed students if the schools were cut in half. Heck most of the slots would have to go to minorites. If you are white you would have to have a perfect education record and no life to get in in. Sounds like an elitist plan to me.

 

[editec]

If I were just a bit younger and better financed, I'd seriously consider becoming a lawyer specializing in intellectualy property law.

Lord knows Rosetta could use one, but they're so damned expensive!

 

[editec]

MY point is, these schools suck up government funds for education few need, and destroy the lives of their students with useless degrees and loan debt that is crippling and inescapable. And that they do these evil things because it furthers the interests of the schools' employees and supervisors....not the taxpayers.

Still wanting to dictate the field of study for a student rather than the student him/herself, I see. Thumbs up, Comrade.

People still have the right to live the college experience. A job is ... What kind of job do you get for a History degree or an English degree, eh?

Teaching is the obvious kind of job. Of course there's no shortage of teachers with degrees in that field.

So really?

Retail is where many of those end up.

I'd say I worked (not including teaching posts) 30 years in positions where my degrees in History and Literature were essantially worthless.

The ONLY reason I'm using those areas of exprtise now is because I invented my own job where those degrees are useful.

And it took me over a decade before that invention actually contributed in any meanful way to supporting me, too.

How many people with degrees in history or English have the luxury to do that?

Damned few at best.

Most kids don't really know what they want to do in life and college gives them a chance to explore life.

Yup.

This world would be a far better place if EVERYBODY originally got a liberal arts degree.

The depth and breadth of education that a liberal education gives you serves you well for understanding not only the human condition, but your society (and others) as well.

How often I run into obviously intelligent people, people who are masters of their areas of dicipline in the sciences, or business, or some profession, who are basically ignorant of how the world works.

It's distressing to talk to doctors, lawyers,accountants or engineers who are basically cluelsss about society generally.

If course there are clearly those professionals who are plenty aware of what's happening, but there are far too many o9therwise intelligent people whose intellect are so focused on their sp-ecialties that they aren't very good citizens.

If we want a viable democracy that is not captured by evil people, the best defence against that is to have a well educated and informed public.

Clearly that is NOT what we have now.

 

[Si modo]

Still wanting to dictate the field of study for a student rather than the student him/herself, I see. Thumbs up, Comrade.

People still have the right to live the college experience. A job is ... What kind of job do you get for a History degree or an English degree, eh?

Teaching is the obvious kind of job. Of course there's no shortage of teachers with degrees in that field.

So really?

Retail is where many of those end up.

....

Unfortunately, teaching is not an easy option for them as they often require an education degree/certificate to do so. Their degree just happens to be in the subject matter they would teach. Go figure.

 

[Madeline]

Still wanting to dictate the field of study for a student rather than the student him/herself, I see. Thumbs up, Comrade.

People still have the right to live the college experience. A job is ... What kind of job do you get for a History degree or an English degree, eh?

Teaching is the obvious kind of job. Of course there's no shortage of teachers with degrees in that field.

So really?

Retail is where many of those end up.

I'd say I worked (not including teaching posts) 30 years in positions where my degrees in History and Literature were essantially worthless.

The ONLY reason I'm using those areas of exprtise now is because I invented my own job where those degrees are useful.

And it took me over a decade before that invention actually contributed in any meanful way to supporting me, too.

How many people with degrees in history or English have the luxury to do that?

Damned few at best.

Most kids don't really know what they want to do in life and college gives them a chance to explore life.

Yup.

This world would be a far better place if EVERYBODY originally got a liberal arts degree.

The depth and breadth of education that a liberal education gives you serves you well for understanding not only the human condition, but your society (and others) as well.

How often I run into obviously intelligent people, people who are masters of their areas of dicipline in the sciences, or business, or some profession, who are basically ignorant of how the world works.

It's distressing to talk to doctors, lawyers,accountants or engineers who are basically cluelsss about society generally.

If course there are clearly those professionals who are plenty aware of what's happening, but there are far too many o9therwise intelligent people whose intellect are so focused on their sp-ecialties that they aren't very good citizens.

If we want a viable democracy that is not captured by evil people, the best defence against that is to have a well educated and informed public.

Clearly that is NOT what we have now.

If the only reason we urge kids to go to college is so they'll become more well-rounded, we need to stop trying to convince them that a college degree is the key to a middle class life. Promising a job/career and only delivering better dinner table convo is a terrible betrayal of their expectations....and that debt enslaves them for life.

 

[Si modo]

People still have the right to live the college experience. A job is ... What kind of job do you get for a History degree or an English degree, eh?

Teaching is the obvious kind of job. Of course there's no shortage of teachers with degrees in that field.

So really?

Retail is where many of those end up.

I'd say I worked (not including teaching posts) 30 years in positions where my degrees in History and Literature were essantially worthless.

The ONLY reason I'm using those areas of exprtise now is because I invented my own job where those degrees are useful.

And it took me over a decade before that invention actually contributed in any meanful way to supporting me, too.

How many people with degrees in history or English have the luxury to do that?

Damned few at best.

Most kids don't really know what they want to do in life and college gives them a chance to explore life.

Yup.

This world would be a far better place if EVERYBODY originally got a liberal arts degree.

The depth and breadth of education that a liberal education gives you serves you well for understanding not only the human condition, but your society (and others) as well.

How often I run into obviously intelligent people, people who are masters of their areas of dicipline in the sciences, or business, or some profession, who are basically ignorant of how the world works.

It's distressing to talk to doctors, lawyers,accountants or engineers who are basically cluelsss about society generally.

If course there are clearly those professionals who are plenty aware of what's happening, but there are far too many o9therwise intelligent people whose intellect are so focused on their sp-ecialties that they aren't very good citizens.

If we want a viable democracy that is not captured by evil people, the best defence against that is to have a well educated and informed public.

Clearly that is NOT what we have now.

If the only reason we urge kids to go to college is so they'll become more well-rounded, we need to stop trying to convince them that a college degree is the key to a middle class life. Promising a job/career and only delivering better dinner table convo is a terrible betrayal of their expectations....and that debt enslaves them for life.

Odd. The reason I was encouraged to go to undergrad was because I wanted to do engineering.

 

[Intense]

People still have the right to live the college experience. A job is ... What kind of job do you get for a History degree or an English degree, eh?

Teaching is the obvious kind of job. Of course there's no shortage of teachers with degrees in that field.

So really?

Retail is where many of those end up.

I'd say I worked (not including teaching posts) 30 years in positions where my degrees in History and Literature were essantially worthless.

The ONLY reason I'm using those areas of exprtise now is because I invented my own job where those degrees are useful.

And it took me over a decade before that invention actually contributed in any meanful way to supporting me, too.

How many people with degrees in history or English have the luxury to do that?

Damned few at best.

Most kids don't really know what they want to do in life and college gives them a chance to explore life.

Yup.

This world would be a far better place if EVERYBODY originally got a liberal arts degree.

The depth and breadth of education that a liberal education gives you serves you well for understanding not only the human condition, but your society (and others) as well.

How often I run into obviously intelligent people, people who are masters of their areas of dicipline in the sciences, or business, or some profession, who are basically ignorant of how the world works.

It's distressing to talk to doctors, lawyers,accountants or engineers who are basically cluelsss about society generally.

If course there are clearly those professionals who are plenty aware of what's happening, but there are far too many o9therwise intelligent people whose intellect are so focused on their sp-ecialties that they aren't very good citizens.

If we want a viable democracy that is not captured by evil people, the best defence against that is to have a well educated and informed public.

Clearly that is NOT what we have now.

If the only reason we urge kids to go to college is so they'll become more well-rounded, we need to stop trying to convince them that a college degree is the key to a middle class life. Promising a job/career and only delivering better dinner table convo is a terrible betrayal of their expectations....and that debt enslaves them for life.

I think maybe the Federal Government should stop being so greedy, and pay back all of the loan interest.

 

[asterism]

Still wanting to dictate the field of study for a student rather than the student him/herself, I see. Thumbs up, Comrade.

People still have the right to live the college experience. A job is ... What kind of job do you get for a History degree or an English degree, eh?

Teaching is the obvious kind of job. Of course there's no shortage of teachers with degrees in that field.

So really?

Retail is where many of those end up.

I'd say I worked (not including teaching posts) 30 years in positions where my degrees in History and Literature were essantially worthless.

The ONLY reason I'm using those areas of exprtise now is because I invented my own job where those degrees are useful.

And it took me over a decade before that invention actually contributed in any meanful way to supporting me, too.

How many people with degrees in history or English have the luxury to do that?

Damned few at best.

Most kids don't really know what they want to do in life and college gives them a chance to explore life.

Yup.

This world would be a far better place if EVERYBODY originally got a liberal arts degree.

The depth and breadth of education that a liberal education gives you serves you well for understanding not only the human condition, but your society (and others) as well.

How often I run into obviously intelligent people, people who are masters of their areas of dicipline in the sciences, or business, or some profession, who are basically ignorant of how the world works.

It's distressing to talk to doctors, lawyers,accountants or engineers who are basically cluelsss about society generally.

If course there are clearly those professionals who are plenty aware of what's happening, but there are far too many o9therwise intelligent people whose intellect are so focused on their sp-ecialties that they aren't very good citizens.

If we want a viable democracy that is not captured by evil people, the best defence against that is to have a well educated and informed public.

Clearly that is NOT what we have now.

I don't think that's solved by having EVERYONE get a liberal arts degree since there are so many examples of people with them who have no skills a company can use and a liberal arts degree is not any more of an education in how the world works than an accounting degree.

But the accounting degree holder can keep a ledger.

 

[Intense]

People still have the right to live the college experience. A job is ... What kind of job do you get for a History degree or an English degree, eh?

Teaching is the obvious kind of job. Of course there's no shortage of teachers with degrees in that field.

So really?

Retail is where many of those end up.

I'd say I worked (not including teaching posts) 30 years in positions where my degrees in History and Literature were essantially worthless.

The ONLY reason I'm using those areas of exprtise now is because I invented my own job where those degrees are useful.

And it took me over a decade before that invention actually contributed in any meanful way to supporting me, too.

How many people with degrees in history or English have the luxury to do that?

Damned few at best.

Most kids don't really know what they want to do in life and college gives them a chance to explore life.

Yup.

This world would be a far better place if EVERYBODY originally got a liberal arts degree.

The depth and breadth of education that a liberal education gives you serves you well for understanding not only the human condition, but your society (and others) as well.

How often I run into obviously intelligent people, people who are masters of their areas of dicipline in the sciences, or business, or some profession, who are basically ignorant of how the world works.

It's distressing to talk to doctors, lawyers,accountants or engineers who are basically cluelsss about society generally.

If course there are clearly those professionals who are plenty aware of what's happening, but there are far too many o9therwise intelligent people whose intellect are so focused on their sp-ecialties that they aren't very good citizens.

If we want a viable democracy that is not captured by evil people, the best defence against that is to have a well educated and informed public.

Clearly that is NOT what we have now.

I don't think that's solved by having EVERYONE get a liberal arts degree since there are so many examples of people with them who have no skills a company can use and a liberal arts degree is not any more of an education in how the world works than an accounting degree.

But the accounting degree holder can keep a ledger.

It's the cost that's the problem, not the path.