Over 16.3 million Americans now carry guns for self defense, the murder rate dropped another 2.5%...

[Skull Pilot]

Germany vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats

Murder rate Germany 0.86 US 5

Meaningless.

And it doesn't prove that gun laws reduce the murder rate.

I have shown you that the UK's gun laws did not reduce its murder rate below what it was before all their gun laws were passed and in fact it went up slightly.

In this country states with the strictest gun control laws have higher murder rates than those with the most lax gun laws.

Gun laws DO NOT lower murder rates

 

[2aguy]

Since when is a private citizen responsible for policing neighborhoods?

So why is this thread's gun nut bragging about gun owners bringing the violent crime rate dawn.

That was my point, in case you missed it.

I asked a question gun nuts can't answer. Gun ownership has a very slim effect on lowering gun violence where gun violence actually takes place. So why distort facts and data to make us think they do.

And this one...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States by John R. Lott, John E Whitley, Rebekah C. Riley :: SSRN


Between 2007 and 2014, murder rates fell from 5.6 to 4.23 (preliminary crime estimate) per 100,000 – a 25 percent drop in the murder rate. At the same time, that the percentage of the adult population with permits soared by 178 percent. Overall violent crime also fell by the same percentage, 25 percent.3 After accounting for the per capita number of police and new prison admissions as well as demographics, this state level permit data suggests that each one percentage point increase in the percent of the adult population holding permits is roughly associated with a 25 percent drop in the murder rate.4 Since the latest state level crime data is only available through 2013, the 2011 and 2013 permit and murder data shows that those states that had the biggest increases in permits had the biggest percentage drop in murder rates. A 10 percent increase in the share of the adult population with permits reduces the murder rate by 1.4 percent.5

Really? A gun nut fraudster is all you got?

The GOP’s favorite gun “academic” is a fraud.

The GOP’s favorite gun “academic” is a fraud



There is no scientific link that shows carry permits have a direct link to a decrease in violent crime.

Yeah....they have been lying about Lott since his first study came out in the 1990s.....I got a copy of that study from the University of Chicago...it was free......

Here are all the links you need to see that they are lying about Lott.....I dare you to actual read them...

Response to Malkin's Op-ed

people who say he gave them his info. easily

John Lott's website

David Friedman defends lott against various critics...

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Lott_v_Teret/my_comments_on_the_lott_co.htm

zhou, donahue used the wrong numbers when they attempted to criticize lott...and then refused to admit their error....

http://econjwatch.org/articles/did-...-to-the-nrc-a-note-on-aneja-donohue-and-zhang


Mother jones attack against Lottt…

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2015/08/mother-jones-tries-to-discredit-me.html

*****************

http://crimeresearch.org/2014/11/do-right-to-carry-laws-reduce-violent-crime/

For the data errors in the one published paper by Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang that claims to find a bad effect from right-to-carry laws on aggravated assaults see this paper.

In addition, Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang have retracted their original claim that the my research could not be replicated. Their argument was that Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang could not replicate the replication work done by the National Research Council that had replicated my research.



In an Erratum note published in October 2012 they concede: “Subsequent to the publication of this article, members of the NRC panel demonstrated to the authors that the results in question were replicable if the authors used the data and statistical models described in Chapter 6 of the NRC (2004) report.”



------



Lott defends against accusations he works for gun lobby



http://crimeresearch.org/2015/11/wh...ks-against-the-cprc-by-gun-control-advocates/

 

[harmonica]

it would've been impossible for Lanza to kill as many as he did with a car/bat/knife--IMPOSSIBLE
using fire would have cut his chances to very low -- possible--but much, much harder

 

[Skull Pilot]

the US has almost double the gun ownership per capita--but higher murder rate than European countries/developed countries
amount of guns and murder rate
if the US has almost double gun ownership compared to the nest country down, according to the OP, US murder rate should be less than the countries of Europe

cars are so much less deadly than cars.....please think of the hours per used....cars are used everyday all day
cars are constantly redesigned for survival ...guns constantly redesigned to kill more efficiently
cars are so much safer you can't even calculate it .....please calculate how many hours cars are used vs guns ....
guns are so much more efficient at killing than knives/bats/cars/etc...why do you think they are used more than any other weapon??
so, we have cars constantly redesigned to be safe--guns constantly redesigned to kill--I'm asking for your truthful opinion: should not guns be regulated just as much, if not more, than cars??

Are you saying someone killed by a NUT using a car is less dead than someone killed by a NUT using a gun? You focus on the item neither of which can drive or shoot, respectively, without SOMEONE driving or shooting them.

cars are not used in murders that much!!!! are they
guns are used in most murders
we do want to try to cut the number of murders, yes?

But gun control laws do not lower the murder rate no matter how often you say they do.

The States with the strictest gun control laws have higher murder rates than the states with the most lax gun laws

Based on Harmonica's mindset, if someone having the intention to kill another person didn't have a gun, the murder wouldn't take place.

very likely it wouldn't

So getting rid of guns does not stop a person with the intent to murder from murdering?

 

[2aguy]

Since when is a private citizen responsible for policing neighborhoods?

So why is this thread's gun nut bragging about gun owners bringing the violent crime rate dawn.

That was my point, in case you missed it.

I asked a question gun nuts can't answer. Gun ownership has a very slim effect on lowering gun violence where gun violence actually takes place. So why distort facts and data to make us think they do.

And this one...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States by John R. Lott, John E Whitley, Rebekah C. Riley :: SSRN


Between 2007 and 2014, murder rates fell from 5.6 to 4.23 (preliminary crime estimate) per 100,000 – a 25 percent drop in the murder rate. At the same time, that the percentage of the adult population with permits soared by 178 percent. Overall violent crime also fell by the same percentage, 25 percent.3 After accounting for the per capita number of police and new prison admissions as well as demographics, this state level permit data suggests that each one percentage point increase in the percent of the adult population holding permits is roughly associated with a 25 percent drop in the murder rate.4 Since the latest state level crime data is only available through 2013, the 2011 and 2013 permit and murder data shows that those states that had the biggest increases in permits had the biggest percentage drop in murder rates. A 10 percent increase in the share of the adult population with permits reduces the murder rate by 1.4 percent.5

Really? A gun nut fraudster is all you got?

The GOP’s favorite gun “academic” is a fraud.

The GOP’s favorite gun “academic” is a fraud



There is no scientific link that shows carry permits have a direct link to a decrease in violent crime.

Only.....yeah, right? here you go....

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Bartley-Cohen-Economic-Inquiry-1998.pdf


The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

.....we find strong support for the hypothesis that the right-to-carry laws are associated with a decrease in the trend in violent crime rates.....

Paper........CCW does not increase police deaths...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Mustard-JLE-Polic-Deaths-Gun-Control.pdf

This paper uses state-level data from 1984–96 to examine how right-to-carry laws and waiting periods affect the felonious deaths of police. Some people oppose concealed weapons carry laws because they believe these laws jeopardize law enforcement officials, who risk their lives to protect the citizenry. This paper strongly rejects this contention. States that allowed law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons had a slightly higher likelihood of having a felonious police death and slightly higher police death rates prior to the law. After enactment of the right-to-carry laws, states exhibit a reduced likelihood of having a felonious police death rate and slightly lower rates of police deaths. States that implement waiting periods have slightly lower felonious police death rates both before and after the law. Allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons does not endanger the lives of officers and may help reduce their risk of being killed

========

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/tideman.pdf


Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

However, for all three crime categories the levels in years 2 and 3 after adoption of a right-to-carry law are significantly below the levels in the years before the adoption of the law, which suggests that there is generally a deterrent effect and that it takes about 1 year for this effect to emerge.

=======

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/323313

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness*




Carlisle E. Moody
College of William and Mary
Overall, right‐to‐carry concealed weapons laws tend to reduce violent crime. The effect on property crime is more uncertain. I find evidence that these laws also reduce burglary.
====
http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Helland-Tabarrok-Placebo-Laws.pdf
Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime”∗ Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok

We also find, however, that the cross equation restrictions implied by the Lott-Mustard theory are supported.
-----
Surprisingly, therefore, we conclude that there is considerable support for the hypothesis that shall-issue laws cause criminals to substitute away from crimes against persons and towards crimes against property.
===========
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Maltz.pdf


Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Our results indicated that the direction of effect of the shall-issue law on total SHR homicide rates was similar to that obtained by Lott and Mustard, although the magnitude of the effect was somewhat smaller and was statistically significant at the 7 percent level. In our analysis, which included only counties with a 1977 population of 100,000 or more, laws allowing for concealed weapons were associated with a 6.52 percent reduction in total homicides (Table 2). By comparison, Lott and Mustard found the concealed weapon dummy variable to be associated with a 7.65 percent reduction in total homicides across all counties and a 9 percent reduction in homicides when only large counties (populations of 100,000 or more) were included.43

===============

This one shows the benefits, in the billions of CCW laws...

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Plassmann_Whitley.pdf

COMMENTS Confirming ìMore Guns, Less Crimeî Florenz Plassmann* & John Whitley**

CONCLUSION Analyzing county-level data for the entire United States from 1977 to 2000, we find annual reductions in murder rates between 1.5% and 2.3% for each additional year that a right-to-carry law is in effect. For the first five years that such a law is in effect, the total benefit from reduced crimes usually ranges between about $2 and $3 billion per year. The results are very similar to earlier estimates using county-level data from 1977 to 1996. We appreciate the continuing effort that Ayres and Donohue have made in discussing the impact of right-to-carry laws on crime rates. Yet we believe that both the new evidence provided by them as well as our new results show consistently that right-to-carry laws reduce crime and save lives. Unfortunately, a few simple mistakes lead Ayres and Donohue to incorrectly claim that crime rates significantly increase after right-to-carry laws are initially adopted and to misinterpret the significance of their own estimates that examined the year-to-year impact of the law.

=============

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...An-Exercise-in-Replication.proof_.revised.pdf

~ The Impact of Right-to-Carry Laws on Crime: An Exercise in Replication1

Carlisle E. Moody College of William and Mary - Department of Economics, Virginia 23187, U.S.A. E-mail: [email protected] Thomas B. Marvell Justec Research, Virginia 23185, U.S.A. Paul R. Zimmerman U.S. Federal Trade Commission - Bureau of Economics, Washington, D.C., U.S.A. Fasil Alemante College of William and Mary, Virginia 23187, U.S.A.


Abstract: In an article published in 2011, Aneja, Donohue and Zhang found that shall-issue or right-to-carry (RTC) concealed weapons laws have no effect on any crime except for a positive effect on assault. This paper reports a replication of their basic findings and some corresponding robustness checks, which reveal a serious omitted variable problem. Once corrected for omitted variables, the most robust result, confirmed using both county and state data, is that RTC laws significantly reduce murder. There is no robust, consistent evidence that RTC laws have any significant effect on other violent crimes, including assault. There is some weak evidence that RTC laws increase robbery and assault while decreasing rape. Given that the victim costs of murder and rape are much higher than the costs of robbery and assault, the evidence shows that RTC laws are socially beneficial.

=======

States with lower guns = higher murder....and assault weapon ban pointless..

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13504851.2013.854294

An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates
Mark Gius

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates. Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states. It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).





Taking apart ayre and donahue one....




“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..


Summary and Conclusion Many articles have been published finding that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one article, by Ayres and Donohue who employ a model that combines a dummy variable with a post-law trend, claims to find that shall-issue laws increase crime. However, the only way that they can produce the result that shall-issue laws increase crime is to confine the span of analysis to five years. We show, using their own estimates, that if they had extended their analysis by one more year, they would have concluded that these laws reduce crime. Since most states with shallissue laws have had these laws on the books for more than five years, and the law will presumably remain on the books for some time, the only relevant analysis extends beyond five years. We extend their analysis by adding three more years of data, control for the effects of crack cocaine, control for dynamic effects, and correct the standard errors for clustering. We find that there is an initial increase in crime due to passage of the shall-issue law that is dwarfed over time by the decrease in crime associated with the post-law trend. These results are very similar to those of Ayres and Donohue, properly interpreted. The modified Ayres and Donohue model finds that shall-issue laws significantly reduce murder and burglary across all the adopting states. These laws appear to significantly increase assault, and have no net effect on rape, robbery, larceny, or auto theft. However, in the long run only the trend coefficients matter. We estimate a net benefit of $450 million per year as a result of the passage of these laws. We also estimate that, up through 2000, there was a cumulative overall net benefit of these laws of $28 billion since their passage. We think that there is credible statistical evidence that these laws lower the costs of crime. But at the very least, the present study should neutralize any “more guns, more crime” thinking based on Ayres and Donohue’s work in the Stanford Law R

 

[harmonica]

Germany vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats

Murder rate Germany 0.86 US 5

Meaningless.

And it doesn't prove that gun laws reduce the murder rate.

I have shown you that the UK's gun laws did not reduce its murder rate below what it was before all their gun laws were passed and in fact it went up slightly.

In this country states with the strictest gun control laws have higher murder rates than those with the most lax gun laws.

Gun laws DO NOT lower murder rates

and it does prove more guns do not drop the murder rate--which is the topic

 

[Skull Pilot]

it would've been impossible for Lanza to kill as many as he did with a car/bat/knife--IMPOSSIBLE
using fire would have cut his chances to very low -- possible--but much, much harder

Who cares?

You already admitted that getting rid of guns does not stop a person hell bent on murder from murdering

 

[2aguy]

Since when is a private citizen responsible for policing neighborhoods?

So why is this thread's gun nut bragging about gun owners bringing the violent crime rate dawn.

That was my point, in case you missed it.

I asked a question gun nuts can't answer. Gun ownership has a very slim effect on lowering gun violence where gun violence actually takes place. So why distort facts and data to make us think they do.

Here is a list of the papers...

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center



A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

That the core belief of the anti gun religion, that more guns = more crime, is complete bullshit.

That's your strawnan. Good job at knocking it down.

Nope.....that is the core belief of you and your fellow anti-gun religious zealots....

 

[Skull Pilot]

Germany vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats

Murder rate Germany 0.86 US 5

Meaningless.

And it doesn't prove that gun laws reduce the murder rate.

I have shown you that the UK's gun laws did not reduce its murder rate below what it was before all their gun laws were passed and in fact it went up slightly.

In this country states with the strictest gun control laws have higher murder rates than those with the most lax gun laws.

Gun laws DO NOT lower murder rates

and it does prove more guns do not drop the murder rate--which is the topic

The topic is about the correlation not causation and the OP contradicts people like you who say more guns equals a higher murder rate

So we seem to agree that more guns do not necessarily drop the murder rate even if there is a correlation and that more gun laws do not drop the murder rate.

So as the worst outcome here allowing people to keep and bear arms has absolutely no effect on the murder rate.

Now tell me again the problem you have with people owning guns?

 

[2aguy]

Skull Pilot, post: 18174191

. We have more guns, more people with concealed carry permits and our murder and violent crime rates are falling.

Nothing wrong with that statement. So there you go. The statistics have no correlation. Gun nuts should stick with the facts.

Like this:

The reality is that an American is at least twice as likely to be shot dead by a toddler than killed by a terrorist. In 2014 88 Americans were shot dead, on average, every day: 58 killed themselves while 30 were murdered. In that same year 18 Americans were killed by terrorist attacks in the US. Put more starkly: more Americans were killed by firearms roughly every five hours than were killed by terrorists in an entire year.

Trump fears terrorists, but more Americans are shot dead by toddlers | Gary Younge

More guns in homes means more kids killing people.

Gun nuts aren't that great.

Yeah......odds are those numbers are fake.....which is a typical tactic of the anti-gunners.....

On top of that....Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop criminal attack, according to studies done by bill clinton's Department of Justice and obama's Centers for Disease Control......and those are just two studies showing how often guns are used by Americans to stop criminals....

Here are all of them...

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[Tax Man]

WOW! I am not impressed at all. What we do need is to reduce the desire for committing crime.

 

[Conservative65]

the US has almost double the gun ownership per capita--but higher murder rate than European countries/developed countries
amount of guns and murder rate
if the US has almost double gun ownership compared to the nest country down, according to the OP, US murder rate should be less than the countries of Europe

cars are so much less deadly than cars.....please think of the hours per used....cars are used everyday all day
cars are constantly redesigned for survival ...guns constantly redesigned to kill more efficiently
cars are so much safer you can't even calculate it .....please calculate how many hours cars are used vs guns ....
guns are so much more efficient at killing than knives/bats/cars/etc...why do you think they are used more than any other weapon??
so, we have cars constantly redesigned to be safe--guns constantly redesigned to kill--I'm asking for your truthful opinion: should not guns be regulated just as much, if not more, than cars??

Are you saying someone killed by a NUT using a car is less dead than someone killed by a NUT using a gun? You focus on the item neither of which can drive or shoot, respectively, without SOMEONE driving or shooting them.

cars are not used in murders that much!!!! are they
guns are used in most murders
we do want to try to cut the number of murders, yes?

But gun control laws do not lower the murder rate no matter how often you say they do.

The States with the strictest gun control laws have higher murder rates than the states with the most lax gun laws

Based on Harmonica's mindset, if someone having the intention to kill another person didn't have a gun, the murder wouldn't take place.

very likely it wouldn't

"very likely"? I'll need more proof. You saying so doesn't make it so.

 

[2aguy]

Skull Pilot, post: 18174191

. We have more guns, more people with concealed carry permits and our murder and violent crime rates are falling.

Nothing wrong with that statement. So there you go. The statistics have no correlation. Gun nuts should stick with the facts.

Like this:

The reality is that an American is at least twice as likely to be shot dead by a toddler than killed by a terrorist. In 2014 88 Americans were shot dead, on average, every day: 58 killed themselves while 30 were murdered. In that same year 18 Americans were killed by terrorist attacks in the US. Put more starkly: more Americans were killed by firearms roughly every five hours than were killed by terrorists in an entire year.

Trump fears terrorists, but more Americans are shot dead by toddlers | Gary Younge

More guns in homes means more kids killing people.

Gun nuts aren't that great.

And, no. Here is an actual breakdown of gun deaths......notice that non gun suicide was higher than gun suicide...


Gun suicide..

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2015
Gun suicide...

22,018

Non Gun suicide...

22,078
========================

Gun Accidental death.....
2015

489

==================

Gun murder ( 70-80% of the victims of gun murder are actual criminals, not law abiding people)

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8


2015--

9,616

=======================

Suicide
So you lie....you hide what the numbers actually are...and you lie about suicide as the highest number of gun deaths...even though Japan, Korea, China, all have absolute gun control for law abiding citizens...only criminals and cops can have guns.......and they have higher suicide rates than we do....and our non-gun suicide rate has been higher than our gun suicide rate for 2 years in a row.....

Gun Accidental Death...

Gun accidents....in a country with over 320,000,000 people...... with 400,000,000 guns in private hands, and over 15,700,000 people carrying guns for self defense..... 489 accidental gun deaths....

Gun murder
Of the 9,616 gun murders in this country, 70-80% of the victims are criminals, engaged in criminal activity or part of the criminal life style....and of the remaining victims....many of them are friends and family of the criminal...caught up in the criminal's lifestyle.....

Non-fatal gun accidents....
WISQARS Nonfatal Injury Reports

CDC non fatal gun accident.....

2001.... 17,696

2002... 17,579

2003... 18,941

2004... 16,555

2005... 15,388

2006... 14,678

2007... 15,698

2008... 17,215

2009... 18,610

2010... 14,161

2011... 14,675

2012... 17,362

2013... 16,864

2014..... 15,928

2015... 17,311

 

[2aguy]

Skull Pilot, post: 18174191

. We have more guns, more people with concealed carry permits and our murder and violent crime rates are falling.

Nothing wrong with that statement. So there you go. The statistics have no correlation. Gun nuts should stick with the facts.

Like this:

The reality is that an American is at least twice as likely to be shot dead by a toddler than killed by a terrorist. In 2014 88 Americans were shot dead, on average, every day: 58 killed themselves while 30 were murdered. In that same year 18 Americans were killed by terrorist attacks in the US. Put more starkly: more Americans were killed by firearms roughly every five hours than were killed by terrorists in an entire year.

Trump fears terrorists, but more Americans are shot dead by toddlers | Gary Younge

More guns in homes means more kids killing people.

Gun nuts aren't that great.

And the point to your post........with 320,000,000 people in the country, and over 16.3 million people carrying guns, and now close to 600 million guns in private hands....how many accidental gun deaths were there? Including toddlers....according to the CDC...

489 in 2015.

And here is a breakdown of kids killed by, or murdered with guns.....

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leading_causes_death.html
Kids murdered by guns....

under 1: 12
age 1-4: 39

age 5-14: 142

total gun murder of children.....193



Kids murdered by other means...

under 1: 270
age 1-4: 298
age 5-14: 135



murder of children by other means.....703
Now, if even if you include gun accidents into the total.....

you are still wrong....

Accidental death by gun for children....

under 1: 3
age 1-4: 27
age 5-14: 39

Total accidental gun death for kids 2013....69
Total accidental gun death for kids in 2014...50
2015...48
2014...50
2013...69
2012...58
2011...74
2010...62
2009...48
2008...62
2007...65
2006...54
2005...75
2004...63
2003...56
2002...60
2001...72
2000...86
1999...88

 

[Skull Pilot]

WOW! I am not impressed at all. What we do need is to reduce the desire for committing crime.

Yeah in the history of mankind we have never accomplished that.

Human beings are THE most violent, most dangerous animal to have ever walked on this planet and they always will be

 

[2aguy]

Skull Pilot, post: 18174191

. We have more guns, more people with concealed carry permits and our murder and violent crime rates are falling.

Nothing wrong with that statement. So there you go. The statistics have no correlation. Gun nuts should stick with the facts.

Like this:

The reality is that an American is at least twice as likely to be shot dead by a toddler than killed by a terrorist. In 2014 88 Americans were shot dead, on average, every day: 58 killed themselves while 30 were murdered. In that same year 18 Americans were killed by terrorist attacks in the US. Put more starkly: more Americans were killed by firearms roughly every five hours than were killed by terrorists in an entire year.

Trump fears terrorists, but more Americans are shot dead by toddlers | Gary Younge

More guns in homes means more kids killing people.

Gun nuts aren't that great.

Hey, genius......cars are more dangerous than guns......especially for kids....

Teenage Car Accident Statistics - Aceable

According to the AAA Foundation, 371,645 people were injured and 2,927 were killed in crashes that involved a teen driver in 2013.
Table for teen driving deaths...
Fatality Facts

 

[2aguy]

it would've been impossible for Lanza to kill as many as he did with a car/bat/knife--IMPOSSIBLE
using fire would have cut his chances to very low -- possible--but much, much harder

Are you this stupid?

the Sandy Hook Shooter....26 people killed

Rental Truck in Nice, France....86 killed, 458 injured.

Do you just pretend to be this stupid...or do you actually work at it?

 

[harmonica]

Are you saying someone killed by a NUT using a car is less dead than someone killed by a NUT using a gun? You focus on the item neither of which can drive or shoot, respectively, without SOMEONE driving or shooting them.

cars are not used in murders that much!!!! are they
guns are used in most murders
we do want to try to cut the number of murders, yes?

But gun control laws do not lower the murder rate no matter how often you say they do.

The States with the strictest gun control laws have higher murder rates than the states with the most lax gun laws

Based on Harmonica's mindset, if someone having the intention to kill another person didn't have a gun, the murder wouldn't take place.

very likely it wouldn't

So getting rid of guns does not stop a person with the intent to murder from murdering?

yes it does----
around 9000 gun homicide in the US just 50 in the UK
accounting for population size there should be 1500 murders in the UK if comparing to the US with millions of guns--but there is not
the murder rate is many times higher in the US---not 2, or 3 , 4 , or 10 times....it is THIRTY times higher
yes, lack of guns and/or gun control greatly reduces the murders and many people would not murder without a gun
the numbers are right there .....

 

[2aguy]

Germany vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats

Murder rate Germany 0.86 US 5

Meaningless.

And it doesn't prove that gun laws reduce the murder rate.

I have shown you that the UK's gun laws did not reduce its murder rate below what it was before all their gun laws were passed and in fact it went up slightly.

In this country states with the strictest gun control laws have higher murder rates than those with the most lax gun laws.

Gun laws DO NOT lower murder rates

and it does prove more guns do not drop the murder rate--which is the topic

No....I have shown the studies that show they do lower the crime rate...which would include murder.

 

[2aguy]

cars are not used in murders that much!!!! are they
guns are used in most murders
we do want to try to cut the number of murders, yes?

But gun control laws do not lower the murder rate no matter how often you say they do.

The States with the strictest gun control laws have higher murder rates than the states with the most lax gun laws

Based on Harmonica's mindset, if someone having the intention to kill another person didn't have a gun, the murder wouldn't take place.

very likely it wouldn't

So getting rid of guns does not stop a person with the intent to murder from murdering?

yes it does----
around 9000 gun homicide in the US just 50 in the UK
accounting for population size there should be 1500 murders in the UK if comparing to the US with millions of guns--but there is not
the murder rate is many times higher in the US---not 2, or 3 , 4 , or 10 times....it is THIRTY times higher
yes, lack of guns and/or gun control greatly reduces the murders and many people would not murder without a gun
the numbers are right there .....

British criminals do no commit murder.....it is a cultural difference since they have access to guns. In fact.....as their social welfare system has begun to fail in raising young males into young men....their gun crime rate, their violent crime rate are going up, not down....they are also importing violent criminals from the 3rd world.....

Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.
Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.