Our Future if we close our refineries...

[Philobeado]

IN the UK gas is $9 a gallon!!!

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Misery for motorists as petrol hits £6 a gallon

That's what happens when you have to import all your gasoline. The UK has zero refineries.

 

[Mr. H.]

Uh so where do refineries figure into that story?

 

[Old Rocks]

Well now, anyone can have power that has a southfacing roof. And there is a firm in Oregon that is making electric motorcycles.

BRAMMO Enertia powercycle : 100% Electric Motorcycle : Home

One might also look up the RAV4 Electric Toyota, and consider that those were the specs for a vehicle made in 1994. Been a bit of progress on batteries since then. Were Ford, GM, or Chrysler to make a real effort on this front, we would need neither the refineries, or oil from Venzuela or any other place.

 

[editec]

Is there a move afoot to close American refineries?

It is my understanding that American refineries are working at 97% of capacity and are making money hand over fist.

 

[Douger]

No. That's what happens when you live in a place full of snaggle toothed, inbred, Queen worshipers.

 

[Samson]

Well now, anyone can have power that has a southfacing roof. And there is a firm in Oregon that is making electric motorcycles.

BRAMMO Enertia powercycle : 100% Electric Motorcycle : Home

One might also look up the RAV4 Electric Toyota, and consider that those were the specs for a vehicle made in 1994. Been a bit of progress on batteries since then. Were Ford, GM, or Chrysler to make a real effort on this front, we would need neither the refineries, or oil from Venzuela or any other place.

How many Bushles of Oganically Grown Tomatoes will fit on an electric motorcycle?

 

[Old Rocks]

Well now, anyone can have power that has a southfacing roof. And there is a firm in Oregon that is making electric motorcycles.

BRAMMO Enertia powercycle : 100% Electric Motorcycle : Home

One might also look up the RAV4 Electric Toyota, and consider that those were the specs for a vehicle made in 1994. Been a bit of progress on batteries since then. Were Ford, GM, or Chrysler to make a real effort on this front, we would need neither the refineries, or oil from Venzuela or any other place.

How many Bushles of Oganically Grown Tomatoes will fit on an electric motorcycle?

Smith Electric Vehicles (SEV)

You don’t have to wait to do your part to improve the urban environment. Zero emission, zero noise Smith Electric Vehicles (SEV) are available NOW from Smith Electric Vehicle U.S. Corp! And SEV U.S. already has 80 years of proven performance.

 

[Old Rocks]

Smith Electric Vehicles (SEV)

TOP SPEED:
50 mph

RANGE/CHARGE:
up to 100 miles

PAYLOAD:
up to 16,280 lbs

Motor:
120 kw induction motor

Battery:
Lithium-Ion Iron Phosphate

GVW:
16,535 lbs, 23,148 lbs or 26,455 lbs

Battery Charger:
Installed Full battery recharge:
6-8 hours

 

[Old Rocks]

Now if you are a company that also runs its trucks out of big warehouses, then this ought to be of interest.

IEEE Spectrum: First Solar: Quest for the $1 Watt

It’s easy to make a small pile of money off photovoltaic cells but very hard to make a big one. The reason is one of the most fundamental in free-market economics: the larger the market you aim for, the more competitors you’ll have to face.

If you just want to power a billion-dollar space probe, almost any price per watt is acceptable. If you are selling to lonely farmhouses, you just have to charge less than the cost of running a power line to the boondocks. In some parts of the world, competing with grid electricity itself may be an easy game during peak consumption hours. But if you want the off-peak market, you’ll have to price your cells at about US $1 per watt. That price is called grid parity, and it’s the holy grail of the photovoltaic industry. At least 80 firms around the world, from Austin to Osaka, are in the chase.

Surprisingly, at the moment no company is *closer to that grail than a little start-up called First Solar, which until very *recently had been known only to specialists. It’s located in Tempe, Ariz., and analysts agree that it will very likely meet typical grid-parity prices in *developed countries in just two to four years. It’s got a multibillion-dollar order book, it’s selling all the cells it can make, it’s adding production capacity as fast as it can, and its stock price has rocketed from $25 to more than $250 in just 18 months.

Electric motors and the components involved are far less complex than diesel engines, and their transmissions. So you would have a maintenance savings. Also, by producing most of your energy on site, net metering on a grid parallel system, you would do both yourself and the utility a favor. You would be producing electricity at the time of highest usage, but using it yourself, for charging the trucks, at the time of lowest usage.

 

[Samson]

Smith Electric Vehicles (SEV)

TOP SPEED:
50 mph

RANGE/CHARGE:
up to 100 miles

PAYLOAD:
up to 16,280 lbs

Motor:
120 kw induction motor

Battery:
Lithium-Ion Iron Phosphate

GVW:
16,535 lbs, 23,148 lbs or 26,455 lbs

Battery Charger:
Installed Full battery recharge:
6-8 hours

I really think these vehicles are great, and should be used in urban environments.

And 85% of the USA lives in areas which we could call "urban."

However, the USA is also a relatively large country whose transportation demands are well over 100 miles.

Currently there is no technology that economically meets these demands that is not fossil fuel (unrenewable resource) based, and refineries are the only means of creating deisel and gasoline.

Frankly, as gasoline becomes more expensive, and eventually becomes unavailable, I'm hoping to not only see "greener" resources replace it, but also movement of populations from urban areas to small towns where food, clothing, and shelter (materials) will be produced locally, and much less expensively transported to a local population.

 

[Old Rocks]

The majority of driving is done in the urban areas. And even these delivery vehicles seldom do more than 100 miles a day.

Were we to go to an algea system for an oil for diesel use, we could use the sewage systems of most urban areas for the nutrients for the algea. The use of food for fuel is not only expensive, but raises some real moral questions.

 

[xsited1]

Our Future if we close our refineries... IN the UK gas is $9 a gallon!!!

I thought this was our future:

 

[Samson]

The majority of driving is done in the urban areas. And even these delivery vehicles seldom do more than 100 miles a day.

Were we to go to an algea system for an oil for diesel use, we could use the sewage systems of most urban areas for the nutrients for the algea. The use of food for fuel is not only expensive, but raises some real moral questions.

I'm not disputing that deliveries within urban areas seldom happen more than 100 mpd.

My point is that there is interstate commerce that happens more than 100 mpd, and that this is a significant part of our economy that cannot continue without fossil fuels.

 

[uscitizen]

Well now, anyone can have power that has a southfacing roof. And there is a firm in Oregon that is making electric motorcycles.

BRAMMO Enertia powercycle : 100% Electric Motorcycle : Home

One might also look up the RAV4 Electric Toyota, and consider that those were the specs for a vehicle made in 1994. Been a bit of progress on batteries since then. Were Ford, GM, or Chrysler to make a real effort on this front, we would need neither the refineries, or oil from Venzuela or any other place.

How many Bushles of Oganically Grown Tomatoes will fit on an electric motorcycle?

In china they seemed to put about 8 bushels on a bicycle.

 

[uscitizen]

The USA was built around cheap gas. And when it is no longer cheap or available we will pay bigtime.
We should be decentralizing now instead of continuing to centralize.

 

[Samson]

Well now, anyone can have power that has a southfacing roof. And there is a firm in Oregon that is making electric motorcycles.

BRAMMO Enertia powercycle : 100% Electric Motorcycle : Home

One might also look up the RAV4 Electric Toyota, and consider that those were the specs for a vehicle made in 1994. Been a bit of progress on batteries since then. Were Ford, GM, or Chrysler to make a real effort on this front, we would need neither the refineries, or oil from Venzuela or any other place.

How many Bushles of Oganically Grown Tomatoes will fit on an electric motorcycle?

In china they seemed to put about 8 bushels on a bicycle.

In China they got about 400,000,000 guys peddling bikes with bushles of tomatoes.

 

[uscitizen]

How many Bushles of Oganically Grown Tomatoes will fit on an electric motorcycle?

In china they seemed to put about 8 bushels on a bicycle.

In China they got about 400,000,000 guys peddling bikes with bushles of tomatoes.

Not as much lately, they are americanizing.
But still plenty who do. It is amazing to see them going down the road with a 6-8 ft stack of stuff on a bicycle.
We are too spoiled and lazy.

 

[Samson]

In china they seemed to put about 8 bushels on a bicycle.

In China they got about 400,000,000 guys peddling bikes with bushles of tomatoes.

Not as much lately, they are americanizing.
But still plenty who do. It is amazing to see them going down the road with a 6-8 ft stack of stuff on a bicycle.
We are too spoiled and lazy.

Indeed.

Today I expect you to ride your Trek 3500 Mountain Bike down to Kroger's and load it up with a month's worth of groceries, then ride home.

or

It may be easier (and cheaper) just to adopt a chinee and have them do it for you...

here's mine:

 

[Old Rocks]

Interesting. Here in Portland, Oregon, on days when it is not raining, I have seen some of the younger neighbors with trailers for their bicycles actually bringing a bunch of groceries home. And some of them have SUV's setting in the driveway.

I like your choice of a driver, but were I to adopt one, my Lakota wife would collect two scalps.

 

[Samson]

Interesting. Here in Portland, Oregon, on days when it is not raining, I have seen some of the younger neighbors with trailers for their bicycles actually bringing a bunch of groceries home. And some of them have SUV's setting in the driveway.

I like your choice of a driver, but were I to adopt one, my Lakota wife would collect two scalps.

Well, I suppose you could tie a lean-to across the wife, and have her haul groceries for you. Lakota's are deceptively strong and hearty. I bet she could drag 200 lbs of organic ground buffalo home, given the proper encouragement.