OPINION: Why mRNA Vaccines are failing.

[MaryL]

These vaccines are a very good temporary protection from severe sickness or death....and it makes sense that they don't develope all the different antibodies created by our bodies when we have had the full flege virus.... It's only protecting us via developing antibodies against the spike protein....which I believe is how the virus attaches to our cells to fully enter our bodies, and then make us sick?? And when sick with the virus, we develop other antibodies like B cells etc.that give us additional protections for other things regarding the virus that are not a part of these vaccines.

I'm not certain a traditional vaccine can be created for Corona viruses. We've tried with the Common cold, SARS, and MERS.....couldn't develop one..... in fact, I don't believe there has ever been a traditional vaccine that works for any Corona virus, ever.

I don't know why, or what the problem is with doing it, but we do have a problem, with not being able to create a traditional vaccine....at least so far....

These mRNA vaccines are a medical miracle, to have achieved some pretty good protection from severe illness from a Corona virus.

But as with many, I'm hoping they can improve these mRNA vaccines with more protection that doesn't wane so quickly and stops the spread, or some vaccine maker, somewhere, some day, can create a traditional or synthetic vaccine that also prevents the spread of infection, along with severe illness.....

Saying all that, here is what I am wondering, and hoping the scientists are going to study....

People vaccinated, that get a breakthrough case of covid infection, who don't get severely sick.... Do their bodies create the full range of antibodies that the other people who have caught covid created.... without being vaccinated???

Well lets let loose the hounds: Um people object to this vavcinene because

they used the cells of aborted feuts

When the vaccines you want to put into peoples arms are worse than the disease they were meant to protect people from, that oath is extremely relevant. DO NO HARM.. Vaccinating children, who are 6 time more likely to die from myocarditis than the disease is not living within the oath.

The dog your riding doesn't hunt here..

Yes it does. The mandated Covid vaccine works as well as a condom full of holes prevents pregnancy. Why mandate it?

 

[colfax_m]

Lots of vaccines use small parts of the virus. For example, the Hep B vaccine uses isolated surface antigen. I think Gardasil is the same.

There’s not much to the outside of a COVID virus. Just spike protein and the envelope protein. The biggest benefit to using spike protein is that this site is highly likely to be conserved in mutations and antibodies directed against it are inactivating.

As for durable immunity, Moderna’s vaccine seems to have far fewer problems and this may simply be fixed by a booster which is not unusual in the least.

 

[MaryL]

I am over sixty years old. I remember polio and its effects. We took Salk's vaccine because it effected both presidents and plebs alike. No mass media hysteria or lockdowns. We took the inoculations and ate those sugar cubes because it had real and long-term effects. Covid, you get it you cough, you move on. This isn't a health care crisis. Its political ruse, end of story.

 

[Billy_Bob]

People vaccinated, that get a breakthrough case of covid infection, who don't get severely sick.... Do their bodies create the full range of antibodies that the other people who have caught covid created.... without being vaccinated???

That is the problem, they do not.

The current infection is controlled by the antibodies looking for the spike proteins. The threat from the actual virus is never realized by the person recovering's immune system. It keeps looking for the spike proteins and new antibodies are trained to look for these spike proteins. Once these antibodies wain there is no long term memory as the virus was never seen as a threat by the immune system.

A person who becomes infected has to fight the viral load from scratch. Thus the human immune system looks at every part of the virus. Once the human immune system gains control (finds the right combination of proteins) the bodies healing process creates B and T cells that are deposited in the bone marrow. This is how long term immunities are created.

What people need to realize, the base virus, once identified, can help the body defend itself from mutations. Because the mRNA (messenger RNA) is looking for just the spike proteins it is limited in what it will train your body to identify.. Once the active antibodies are gone, so goes the protections they provide because they do not create long term memory.

 

[MaryL]

That is the problem, they do not.

The current infection is controlled by the antibodies looking for the spike proteins. The threat from the actual virus is never realized by the person recovering's immune system. It keeps looking for the spike proteins and new antibodies are trained to look for these spike proteins. Once these antibodies wain there is no long term memory as the virus was never seen as a threat by the immune system.

A person who becomes infected has to fight the viral load from scratch. Thus the human immune system looks at every part of the virus. Once the human immune system gains control (finds the right combination of proteins) the bodies healing process creates B and T cells that are deposited in the bone marrow. This is how long term immunities are created.

What people need to realize, the base virus, once identified, can help the body defend itself from mutations. Because the mRNA (messenger RNA) is looking for just the spike proteins it is limited in what it will train your body to identify.. Once the active antibodies are gone, so goes the protections they provide because they do not create long term memory.

Um Polio actually was an issue, Covid? This is what Noam Chomsky referred to as "manufactured consent".

 

[Billy_Bob]

Um Polio actually was an issue, Covid? Tthis is what Noam Chomsky referred to as manufactured consent.

Polio has no animal reservoir. The vaccine was derived from dead polio virus. That is why it is near eradication. The body was trained to look for the virus as a whole. COVID is now endemic and will never go away as it can survive in animals. The best immunity for it is to get it, without a vaccine, and heal. This is why people in high risk categories should be the only ones who are vaccinated. Give the general public at large the best immunity for it and then the overall threat to those who are high risk reduces .

 

[ClaireH]

From the top, I am not "anti-vax". So please do not go there. I am posting this as a person with extensive knowledge in the medical field and simply posting empirical observations.

Modified RNA vaccines (mRNA) are designed to look for common parts of a virus. This makes creating a quick vaccine very easy but it also has negative problems that we are now having to deal with.

Modified RNA vaccines look for "parts" of the virus, not the virus itself. While they will lessen the severity if you do become infected, once the antibodies are gone its the same as never having seen the virus, as you body did not have to heal and create B and T cells in your bone marrow. The antibodies were triggered by a part of a virus and not the virus, in this case, the "spike proteins". You gain no long term protections.

This is also why you can become infectious to others. The virus grows unabated until there are sufficient "spike proteins" to trigger a response from your immune system. This is why people get ill, become infective, but have very mild cases. It is the lack of healing and the trigger by spike proteins which stops the body from creating long term immunities in B and T cells. Once your antibodies are gone from this mRNA vaccine your body has never seen or reacted to the actual virus, you are now a walking time bomb again to have a very sever case.

In summary;

* The "trigger" for your immune system is the spike proteins and not the virus. The human bodies immune system never trains itself to look for the virus. No long term immunity is formed.

* Once the active antibodies are gone from a mRNA virus you are again at risk to become ill. Without the formation of long term immunities in your bone marrow which look for the virus you do not gain these.

* Because the mRNA vaccine trains the body to look for the 'spike proteins', the virus will run rampant until it creates sufficient mass to trigger the antibody response from the spike proteins. This time period allows the viral load to amass and the person to become infective to others. The body never responds to the virus as a threat. The antibodies will attack anything that has the spike proteins present so it kills the infection.

* mRNA antibodies rapidly decrease at 3-4 months. By 5-9 months they are insufficient to foster further protections.

* mRNA vaccines cause swelling of cardiac tissues in persons under the age of 25 and blood clots in women.

The studies coming out about the efficacy of the mRNA vaccines is stunning. Problems, like viral transmission, were not foreseen by the creator of the method. While this method does make early vaccine intervention possible, it is not a long term solution to endemic viruses such as COVID-19. Using identifiable parts of a virus can give some protection to mutation outbreaks, if the right part is used, but it can also have unforeseen bad outcomes.

In My Opinion, the fact that mRNA vaccine are incapable of creating long term memory and immunities makes them a stop gap measure until a more suitable vaccine can be created which does. Now Europe is seeing its third wave because of waning vaccine antibodies. Something needs to change fast or this will cycle never stop. I am glad that I have had the virus and have acquired (non-vaccine) driven immunities. My body has long term memory cells so my problem is over as far as COVID 19 is concerned.

References:

Efficacy and Safety of the mRNA-1273 SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine - PubMed

The mRNA-1273 vaccine showed 94.1% efficacy at preventing Covid-19 illness, including severe disease. Aside from transient local and systemic reactions, no safety concerns were identified. (Funded by the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority and the National Institute of Allergy...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2035389

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

In reviewing your informative post there were several discrepancies, not on your end of course but on what’s been stated public by endorsers of the jabs. The US populace was misled intentionally by spokespeople with political and medical goals that could not be thwarted.

First deception: label the jab a “vaccination”. The intentional deception was to mislead the public to assume they were similar to traditional and sub vaccines when they knew otherwise.

Second deception: Promote the falsehood that the spike training method involved teaching the natural immune system to recognize COVID-19 to eliminate it.

Third deception: Inform populace to stay home because hospitals were out of PPE and needed time to restock to handle the bulk of business. Full truth: Fauci, NIH, and CDC all knew the 3 Pharma companies needed more time to rush their fake vaccines through. That is the full reason they flattened the curve. It was based upon a half-truth about PPE. Smoke and mirrors, public falls for it every time.

Fourth deception: mRNA “vaccines” are superior to natural infection of SARS-CoV-2. False and they knew it in the lab.
The strategy was to jab as many as possible before information leaked out. They were able to fool a lot of people because making short term comparisons 60 days out, 90 days maximum-didn’t yet show that natural immunity was in fact far superior as many already suspected.

Another whole layer of mess occurred because political players and medical spokespeople created conditions ripe for falsifying medical records. Hospitals and nursing homes which marked a heart attack as a Covid death received money from the federal government. Many facilities got by with it, even when family members knew the truth and demanded a correction be made. A person who tested positive for COVID-19 in a local nursing home died from choking on his food in bed. His death certificate- died FROM Covid-19 and the facility received government money for it. Like all others.

2021 Nobel Prize winners- not a one remotely connected to mRNA. Of course, many were surprised by this and when one of the decision-makers was asked why that was the case he stated that it was “due to poor timing” because contenders must apply by February. Side note: Not buying that, but somebody will. Another member of the award committee, however, must not have received the internal memo about stating only positive remarks about mRNA and stated that they wanted to “make sure they were recognizing technology that would be used in the future”. I find this comment to be most significant.

 

[Care4all]

That is the problem, they do not.

The current infection is controlled by the antibodies looking for the spike proteins. The threat from the actual virus is never realized by the person recovering's immune system. It keeps looking for the spike proteins and new antibodies are trained to look for these spike proteins. Once these antibodies wain there is no long term memory as the virus was never seen as a threat by the immune system.

A person who becomes infected has to fight the viral load from scratch. Thus the human immune system looks at every part of the virus. Once the human immune system gains control (finds the right combination of proteins) the bodies healing process creates B and T cells that are deposited in the bone marrow. This is how long term immunities are created.

What people need to realize, the base virus, once identified, can help the body defend itself from mutations. Because the mRNA (messenger RNA) is looking for just the spike proteins it is limited in what it will train your body to identify.. Once the active antibodies are gone, so goes the protections they provide because they do not create long term memory.

Yes I do understand the limits of the vaccines.

My question, is what if you are a vaccinated person, who catches the virus...a breakthrough case, because you caught covid after vaccination.... Will that person develop additional antibodies because they actually caught covid19? Is there an advantage to getting a covid19 infection while vaccinate, vs not catching covid19 while vaccinated? Would the vaccinated person who still caught covid, be more protected against a new variant of covid than the person vaccinated who never caught it? Are you sure catching it gives us no more protection?

And, another question, can they create through mRNA vaccine technology, a vaccine that also triggers B cell etc antibody protection against covid19?

 

[MaryL]

Um Polio actually was an issue, Covid? This is what Noam Chomsky referred to as manufactured consent.

Um Polio actually was an issue, Covid? Tthis is what Noam Chomsky referred to as manufactured consent.

Polio has no animal reservoir. The vaccine was derived from dead polio virus. That is why it is near eradication. The body was trained to look for the virus as a whole. COVID is now endemic and will never go away as it can survive in animals. The best immunity for it is to get it, without a vaccine, and heal. This is why people in high risk categories should be the only ones who are vaccinated. Give the general public at large the best immunity for it and then the overall threat to those who are high risk reduces .

Ok, Since this vaccine doesn't work, might counter religious beliefs (used stem sells from abortred fetuses for research) yadda yada, and the cherry on top is ...it's "mandated" and beside all that, the fact democrat leaders reused to take it last year. Same vaccine.

 

[MaryL]

I almost want to get vaccinated anyway. It's like chicken soup, it won't help, but it can't hurt. I have taken all the other vaccines because I saw the effects of the things like Measles or Chicken pox or polio. I know people that got covid, they either didn't even notice or said it was like the flu. Then they got vaccinated, then got covid AGAIN. So, in this kabuki sideshow, what is the point?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

From the top, I am not "anti-vax". So please do not go there. I am posting this as a person with extensive knowledge in the medical field and simply posting empirical observations.

Modified RNA vaccines (mRNA) are designed to look for common parts of a virus. This makes creating a quick vaccine very easy but it also has negative problems that we are now having to deal with.

Modified RNA vaccines look for "parts" of the virus, not the virus itself. While they will lessen the severity if you do become infected, once the antibodies are gone its the same as never having seen the virus, as you body did not have to heal and create B and T cells in your bone marrow. The antibodies were triggered by a part of a virus and not the virus, in this case, the "spike proteins". You gain no long term protections.

This is also why you can become infectious to others. The virus grows unabated until there are sufficient "spike proteins" to trigger a response from your immune system. This is why people get ill, become infective, but have very mild cases. It is the lack of healing and the trigger by spike proteins which stops the body from creating long term immunities in B and T cells. Once your antibodies are gone from this mRNA vaccine your body has never seen or reacted to the actual virus, you are now a walking time bomb again to have a very sever case.

In summary;

* The "trigger" for your immune system is the spike proteins and not the virus. The human bodies immune system never trains itself to look for the virus. No long term immunity is formed.

* Once the active antibodies are gone from a mRNA virus you are again at risk to become ill. Without the formation of long term immunities in your bone marrow which look for the virus you do not gain these.

* Because the mRNA vaccine trains the body to look for the 'spike proteins', the virus will run rampant until it creates sufficient mass to trigger the antibody response from the spike proteins. This time period allows the viral load to amass and the person to become infective to others. The body never responds to the virus as a threat. The antibodies will attack anything that has the spike proteins present so it kills the infection.

* mRNA antibodies rapidly decrease at 3-4 months. By 5-9 months they are insufficient to foster further protections.

* mRNA vaccines cause swelling of cardiac tissues in persons under the age of 25 and blood clots in women.

The studies coming out about the efficacy of the mRNA vaccines is stunning. Problems, like viral transmission, were not foreseen by the creator of the method. While this method does make early vaccine intervention possible, it is not a long term solution to endemic viruses such as COVID-19. Using identifiable parts of a virus can give some protection to mutation outbreaks, if the right part is used, but it can also have unforeseen bad outcomes.

In My Opinion, the fact that mRNA vaccine are incapable of creating long term memory and immunities makes them a stop gap measure until a more suitable vaccine can be created which does. Now Europe is seeing its third wave because of waning vaccine antibodies. Something needs to change fast or this will cycle never stop. I am glad that I have had the virus and have acquired (non-vaccine) driven immunities. My body has long term memory cells so my problem is over as far as COVID 19 is concerned.

References:

Efficacy and Safety of the mRNA-1273 SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine - PubMed

The mRNA-1273 vaccine showed 94.1% efficacy at preventing Covid-19 illness, including severe disease. Aside from transient local and systemic reactions, no safety concerns were identified. (Funded by the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority and the National Institute of Allergy...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2035389

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

You’re anti vax. You swine!!!!

I kid. I am vaccinated. But I am really safe because I already had COVID.

 

[Flopper]

From the top, I am not "anti-vax". So please do not go there. I am posting this as a person with extensive knowledge in the medical field and simply posting empirical observations.

Modified RNA vaccines (mRNA) are designed to look for common parts of a virus. This makes creating a quick vaccine very easy but it also has negative problems that we are now having to deal with.

Modified RNA vaccines look for "parts" of the virus, not the virus itself. While they will lessen the severity if you do become infected, once the antibodies are gone its the same as never having seen the virus, as you body did not have to heal and create B and T cells in your bone marrow. The antibodies were triggered by a part of a virus and not the virus, in this case, the "spike proteins". You gain no long term protections.

This is also why you can become infectious to others. The virus grows unabated until there are sufficient "spike proteins" to trigger a response from your immune system. This is why people get ill, become infective, but have very mild cases. It is the lack of healing and the trigger by spike proteins which stops the body from creating long term immunities in B and T cells. Once your antibodies are gone from this mRNA vaccine your body has never seen or reacted to the actual virus, you are now a walking time bomb again to have a very sever case.

In summary;

* The "trigger" for your immune system is the spike proteins and not the virus. The human bodies immune system never trains itself to look for the virus. No long term immunity is formed.

* Once the active antibodies are gone from a mRNA virus you are again at risk to become ill. Without the formation of long term immunities in your bone marrow which look for the virus you do not gain these.

* Because the mRNA vaccine trains the body to look for the 'spike proteins', the virus will run rampant until it creates sufficient mass to trigger the antibody response from the spike proteins. This time period allows the viral load to amass and the person to become infective to others. The body never responds to the virus as a threat. The antibodies will attack anything that has the spike proteins present so it kills the infection.

* mRNA antibodies rapidly decrease at 3-4 months. By 5-9 months they are insufficient to foster further protections.

* mRNA vaccines cause swelling of cardiac tissues in persons under the age of 25 and blood clots in women.

The studies coming out about the efficacy of the mRNA vaccines is stunning. Problems, like viral transmission, were not foreseen by the creator of the method. While this method does make early vaccine intervention possible, it is not a long term solution to endemic viruses such as COVID-19. Using identifiable parts of a virus can give some protection to mutation outbreaks, if the right part is used, but it can also have unforeseen bad outcomes.

In My Opinion, the fact that mRNA vaccine are incapable of creating long term memory and immunities makes them a stop gap measure until a more suitable vaccine can be created which does. Now Europe is seeing its third wave because of waning vaccine antibodies. Something needs to change fast or this will cycle never stop. I am glad that I have had the virus and have acquired (non-vaccine) driven immunities. My body has long term memory cells so my problem is over as far as COVID 19 is concerned.

References:

Efficacy and Safety of the mRNA-1273 SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine - PubMed

The mRNA-1273 vaccine showed 94.1% efficacy at preventing Covid-19 illness, including severe disease. Aside from transient local and systemic reactions, no safety concerns were identified. (Funded by the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority and the National Institute of Allergy...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2035389

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

I do not have extensive knowledge in the medical field but I have done a lot reading about mRNA. As I understand what you're saying is the weakness in vaccine is that it attacks the spike protein and not the virus. That does not make any sense to me because mRNA vaccines do not work like other vaccines. They create a spike protein that is expelled from cells and recognized as a pathogen by the immune system which produce the immune response. The mRNA vaccine is long gone from the body before the real virus attacks.

Once in the cell the mRNA vaccine uses the cell to produce a spike protein. After this protein piece is made, the cell breaks down the mRNA vaccine (the instructions) and gets rid of them.

Next, the cell displays this protein piece on its surface. Our immune systems recognize that the protein doesn’t belong there and begin building an immune response and making antibodies, like what happens in natural infection against COVID-19.

At the end of the process, our bodies have learned how to protect against future infection. That information is stored in immune system memory. So when the real virus enters the body, both antibodies that resulted from the vaccine and T Cells attack the virus. Also our our immune system memory has information stored needed to fight the virus. Having this stored information allow our immune system to rapidly identify the virus and provide the proper response.

So when you say, Modified RNA vaccines (mRNA) are designed to look for common parts of a virus this makes no sense because the only purpose of mRNA vaccine is facilitate the construction of a spike protein.

Understanding mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines

Learn how mRNA vaccines trigger an immune response against COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

 

[MaryL]

This Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson and Gullible & Twits manufactured a vaccine derived from fetal cells they want to hide and... AND it doesn't actually stop the virus, you say? Great selling point. Like selling condoms full of holes. They might work they might not. But you have to take them because...(same vaccine a year back the democrats REFUSED to take)...Because. They NOW mandate it. Ok.

 

[Lesh]

I am posting this as a person with extensive knowledge in the medical field and simply posting empirical observations.

Billy Bob is a hospital janitor

And from his own link

Conclusions: The mRNA-1273 vaccine showed 94.1% efficacy at preventing Covid-19 illness, including severe disease. Aside from transient local and systemic reactions, no safety concerns were identified. (Funded by the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority and the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases; COVE ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04470427.).

 

[MaryL]

Billy Bob is a hospital janitor

And from his own link

Conclusions: The mRNA-1273 vaccine showed 94.1% efficacy at preventing Covid-19 illness, including severe disease. Aside from transient local and systemic reactions, no safety concerns were identified. (Funded by the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority and the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases; COVE ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04470427.).

Um I am not going to take this vaccine if it's mandated. Especially since it doesn't actually work. First second or dozen times. I take natural immunity.

 

[Lesh]

Um I am not going to take this vaccine if it's mandated. Especially since it doesn't actually work. First second or dozen times. I take natural immunity.

Then stay the fuck away from me

 

[MaryL]

Then stay the fuck away from m

Then stay the fuck away from me

Ok. Done.

 

[Flopper]

This Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson and Gullible & Twits manufactured a vaccine derived from fetal cells they want to hide and... AND it doesn't actually stop the virus, you say? Great selling point. Like selling condoms full of holes. They might work they might not. But you have to take them because...(same vaccine a year back the democrats REFUSED to take)...Because. They NOW mandate it. Ok.

In general, mRNA COVID-19 vaccines do not contain any aborted fetal cells. Fetal cell lines are not the same as fetal tissue. Fetal cell lines are cells that grow in a laboratory. They descend from cells taken from elective abortions in the 1970s and 1980s.

Specific, in Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines - fetal cell lines were not used to produce or manufacture the vaccine, and they are not inside the injection you receive from your doctor/nurse.

Furthermore, The Vatican has issued clear guidance that permits Roman Catholics in good faith to receive COVID-19 vaccines that use fetal cell lines in development or production.

So if you're looking for a reason not to get vaccinated, you gonna have look somewhere else.

 

[MaryL]

In general, mRNA COVID-19 vaccines do not contain any aborted fetal cells. Fetal cell lines are not the same as fetal tissue. Fetal cell lines are cells that grow in a laboratory. They descend from cells taken from elective abortions in the 1970s and 1980s.

Specific, in Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines - fetal cell lines were not used to produce or manufacture the vaccine, and they are not inside the injection you receive from your doctor/nurse.

Furthermore, The Vatican has issued clear guidance that permits Roman Catholics in good faith to receive COVID-19 vaccines that use fetal cell lines in development or production.

So if you're looking for a reason not to get vaccinated, you gonna have look somewhere else.

I understand that. fetal cells where used to test and develop this vaccine, Not the manufacture. Like other vaccines. And yet here we are. And Democrats refused to take Trumps "vaccine" over political reasons. Yeah. They set that precedent.

 

[MaryL]

The current corvid vaccine just doesn't work. And mandating it doesn't make sense.