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OPINION: Why mRNA Vaccines are failing.

Flopper

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It is you who know nothing about vaccines.
For example, do you know that vaccines came from variolation, like Gen. Washington ordered in 1777?
The article used the word "vaccine", but that is actually wrong.
Vaccines did not exist yet in 1777, and it was variolation instead.

Here is a simple test.
For any vaccine to work, the immune system has to store something in its memory to identify the particular pathogen.
What does an mRNA store to allow the immune system to identify covid in the future?

The answer is there is nothing. Since the mRNA injections do not contain a pathogen, it can't give the immune system anything to trigger on.
If you said "spike proteins", you would be wrong because our own exosomes have to also use spike proteins.
"What does an mRNA store to allow the immune system to identify covid in the future?
The answer is there is nothing."

You are technically correct in saying an mRNA (vaccine) does not store anything in immune system memory because no vaccine stores anything immune system memory. It is the bodies immune system reacting to a pathogen that creates memory. An yes the spike protein is recognized as a pathogen, otherwise there would be no antibody creation.

"We found mRNA vaccines generated functional memory B cells that increased from 3-6 months post-vaccination, with the majority of these cells cross-binding the Alpha, Beta, and Delta variants. mRNA vaccination further induced antigen-specific CD4+ and CD8+ T cells, and early CD4+ T cell responses correlated with long-term humoral immunity. Recall responses to vaccination in individuals with pre-existing immunity primarily increased antibody levels without substantially altering antibody decay rates. Together, these findings demonstrate robust cellular immune memory to SARS-CoV-2 and variants for at least 6 months after mRNA vaccination."

...... We found mRNA vaccines generated functional memory B cells that increased from 3-6 months post-vaccination, with the majority of these cells cross-binding the Alpha, Beta, and Delta variants. mRNA vaccination further induced antigen-specific CD4+ and CD8+ T cells, and early CD4+ T cell responses correlated with long-term humoral immunity. Recall responses to vaccination in individuals with pre-existing immunity primarily increased antibody levels without substantially altering antibody decay rates. Together, these findings demonstrate robust cellular immune memory to SARS-CoV-2 and variants for at least 6 months after mRNA vaccination.

 

Flopper

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Those under 40 were at so little risk, that there were more than sufficient volunteers available.
In fact, at spring break social gatherings like Daytona Beach, they had to arrest hundreds in order to prevent them from deliberately getting infected on their own.
If you deliberately infect by injection, it is vastly superior because then you know who and when to quarantine those deliberately infected.

The main portion of the population who does not make health decisions based on science is the government.
The point is with any epidemic, you have to use a fast strategy.
One extreme or the other.
You either totally quarantine, test, and contact trace to quickly wipe it out, or you deliberately infect in order to quickly achieve herd immunity and wipe it out.
Doing something in the middle, that cannot possibly end it, is insanely irrational.
Flattening the curve does absolutely no good at all, you are worse off than before, and all you did was give it more time to spread even more deeply and wider.

Look at the Spanish flu. It was a total disaster.
It was no more deadly, but was prevented from ending by the mask and social distancing mandates.
Spanish flu has returned since 1918, and was insignificant, because we did not mask or social distance, so it quickly burned out with herd immunity.
Same with covid.
We could have ended it quickly with either known scientific method, but instead went with flattening the curve with masks and social distancing, a method known to be a total disaster.
If we deliberately infect by injection, then we know exactly who to blame for the resulting sickness and deaths.
 
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SweetSue92

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I have never seen nor even imagined what's happening in MI right now. "Fully vaccinated" getting sick in droves here. I mean sick too: not "testing positive". Just heard of another one, a mom at school, and one of the biggest Covidiots who's always lecturing others about masks and vaccines on social media.

Again I don't know what these shots are. Not vaccines though.
 

badger2

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Testing, quarantining, with contact tracing has proved very effective. In fact, South Korea made it their primary response to the alpha variant in March 2020 with great results. It works extremely well when the number of cases are small relative to the size of the testing, quarantining, and contact tracing effort. In South Korea when there was less than a few hundred known cases and tens of thousands of workers assigned to the effort, the number new cases dropped to nearly zero. However when the delta variant hit, the transmission rate was so high, this strategy simply required more resources than they had.

Once you have hundreds thousands of cases, the effort becomes so great that you can not contain the epidemic. It simple becomes another method of reducing the spread, like mask wearing and social distancing. Had the US had the resources in place in March 2020, we could have controlled the spread of alpha variant.
No, Alpha variant, don’t think so. Chinese communists knew that human traffic moving out of Wuhan and out of China would especially spread it, with every passing day the virus learning more about its new host, and doing what RNA viruses do, mutate. They knew it was circulating in the population in Sep or Oct 2019, already too late for preventing outbreaks. The virus had begun to learn about its host at that time.
 

badger2

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It will eventually dawn on the prisoners that they should have demanded what they’re not being allowed to demand: a traditionally defined vaccine precise to the SARS-CoV-2 virus. A vaccine such as India’s Covaxin.
 

Flopper

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It will eventually dawn on the prisoners that they should have demanded what they’re not being allowed to demand: a traditionally defined vaccine precise to the SARS-CoV-2 virus. A vaccine such as India’s Covaxin.
Covaxin is a two dose vaccine with efficacy similar to the Johnson and Johnson vaccine but well below the mRNA vaccines. It is also a virus based vaccine which suffers from the same problem of all virus based vaccines, getting people to take a vaccine containing the virus.

There is now about 5 vaccines being used against Covid. There will probably be no agreement which is the best as they have slightly different pros and cons. However, they have all been proven safe and effective for at least 6 months.
 

Flopper

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Those under 40 were at so little risk, that there were more than sufficient volunteers available.
In fact, at spring break social gatherings like Daytona Beach, they had to arrest hundreds in order to prevent them from deliberately getting infected on their own.
If you deliberately infect by injection, it is vastly superior because then you know who and when to quarantine those deliberately infected.

The main portion of the population who does not make health decisions based on science is the government.
The point is with any epidemic, you have to use a fast strategy.
One extreme or the other.
You either totally quarantine, test, and contact trace to quickly wipe it out, or you deliberately infect in order to quickly achieve herd immunity and wipe it out.
Doing something in the middle, that cannot possibly end it, is insanely irrational.
Flattening the curve does absolutely no good at all, you are worse off than before, and all you did was give it more time to spread even more deeply and wider.

Look at the Spanish flu. It was a total disaster.
It was no more deadly, but was prevented from ending by the mask and social distancing mandates.
Spanish flu has returned since 1918, and was insignificant, because we did not mask or social distance, so it quickly burned out with herd immunity.
Same with covid.
We could have ended it quickly with either known scientific method, but instead went with flattening the curve with masks and social distancing, a method known to be a total disaster.
Infecting people with a live virus knowing that a significant percentage are going to get sick and die might seem justified looking at the statistics but I seriously doubt that it would provide protection from the lawsuits and probably criminal prosecution which is one reason it would not happen.

All epidemics end due to herd immunity. At the time of the Spanish Influenza pandemic, the cause, and preventive measures were unknown. There were some that believed it was spread by an airborne pathogen, or through contact, poor quality food, or foul water. Although masks were used in some places, it was certainly not encouraged by governments and social distancing was staying away from those known to be sick, certainly not staying a prescribed distance from the general public.
 
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ding

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From the top, I am not "anti-vax". So please do not go there. I am posting this as a person with extensive knowledge in the medical field and simply posting empirical observations.

Modified RNA vaccines (mRNA) are designed to look for common parts of a virus. This makes creating a quick vaccine very easy but it also has negative problems that we are now having to deal with.

Modified RNA vaccines look for "parts" of the virus, not the virus itself. While they will lessen the severity if you do become infected, once the antibodies are gone its the same as never having seen the virus, as you body did not have to heal and create B and T cells in your bone marrow. The antibodies were triggered by a part of a virus and not the virus, in this case, the "spike proteins". You gain no long term protections.

This is also why you can become infectious to others. The virus grows unabated until there are sufficient "spike proteins" to trigger a response from your immune system. This is why people get ill, become infective, but have very mild cases. It is the lack of healing and the trigger by spike proteins which stops the body from creating long term immunities in B and T cells. Once your antibodies are gone from this mRNA vaccine your body has never seen or reacted to the actual virus, you are now a walking time bomb again to have a very sever case.

In summary;

* The "trigger" for your immune system is the spike proteins and not the virus. The human bodies immune system never trains itself to look for the virus. No long term immunity is formed.

* Once the active antibodies are gone from a mRNA virus you are again at risk to become ill. Without the formation of long term immunities in your bone marrow which look for the virus you do not gain these.

* Because the mRNA vaccine trains the body to look for the 'spike proteins', the virus will run rampant until it creates sufficient mass to trigger the antibody response from the spike proteins. This time period allows the viral load to amass and the person to become infective to others. The body never responds to the virus as a threat. The antibodies will attack anything that has the spike proteins present so it kills the infection.

* mRNA antibodies rapidly decrease at 3-4 months. By 5-9 months they are insufficient to foster further protections.

* mRNA vaccines cause swelling of cardiac tissues in persons under the age of 25 and blood clots in women.

The studies coming out about the efficacy of the mRNA vaccines is stunning. Problems, like viral transmission, were not foreseen by the creator of the method. While this method does make early vaccine intervention possible, it is not a long term solution to endemic viruses such as COVID-19. Using identifiable parts of a virus can give some protection to mutation outbreaks, if the right part is used, but it can also have unforeseen bad outcomes.

In My Opinion, the fact that mRNA vaccine are incapable of creating long term memory and immunities makes them a stop gap measure until a more suitable vaccine can be created which does. Now Europe is seeing its third wave because of waning vaccine antibodies. Something needs to change fast or this will cycle never stop. I am glad that I have had the virus and have acquired (non-vaccine) driven immunities. My body has long term memory cells so my problem is over as far as COVID 19 is concerned.

References:
Basically what you are saying is that once the mRNA "wears off" you are in no worse of a position than someone who never got the vaccine. Is that correct?
 

Rigby5

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"What does an mRNA store to allow the immune system to identify covid in the future?
The answer is there is nothing."

You are technically correct in saying an mRNA (vaccine) does not store anything in immune system memory because no vaccine stores anything immune system memory. It is the bodies immune system reacting to a pathogen that creates memory. An yes the spike protein is recognized as a pathogen, otherwise there would be no antibody creation.

"We found mRNA vaccines generated functional memory B cells that increased from 3-6 months post-vaccination, with the majority of these cells cross-binding the Alpha, Beta, and Delta variants. mRNA vaccination further induced antigen-specific CD4+ and CD8+ T cells, and early CD4+ T cell responses correlated with long-term humoral immunity. Recall responses to vaccination in individuals with pre-existing immunity primarily increased antibody levels without substantially altering antibody decay rates. Together, these findings demonstrate robust cellular immune memory to SARS-CoV-2 and variants for at least 6 months after mRNA vaccination."

...... We found mRNA vaccines generated functional memory B cells that increased from 3-6 months post-vaccination, with the majority of these cells cross-binding the Alpha, Beta, and Delta variants. mRNA vaccination further induced antigen-specific CD4+ and CD8+ T cells, and early CD4+ T cell responses correlated with long-term humoral immunity. Recall responses to vaccination in individuals with pre-existing immunity primarily increased antibody levels without substantially altering antibody decay rates. Together, these findings demonstrate robust cellular immune memory to SARS-CoV-2 and variants for at least 6 months after mRNA vaccination.


I don't see how the spike protein can be recognized by the immune system as a pathogen, because our own exosomes have to use the same spike proteins, in the exact same way, to access the ACE2 receptors in our cells.

Also all the variants have to use the same spike proteins, so then if these mRNA vaccines were real, then variants would also trigger the immune system just as well as the original virus.

Your quote said, "demonstrate robust cellular immune memory to SARS-CoV-2 and variants for at least 6 months after mRNA vaccination."
And that makes no sense.
If there really were immune memory responses, it would normally be lasting decades, not 6 months.
Some antibodies can live 6 months.
And with all the boosters, it is more likely the boosters are just stimulating antibody production.

But we won't have a definitive answer until we wait a year or so, and then compare recovery immunity with vaccine immunity.
 

Rigby5

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If we deliberately infect by injection, then we know exactly who to blame for the resulting sickness and deaths.

When the vaccines kill tens of thousands as they do, we also know who to blame for that, but we give the vaccine companies immunity from law suits.
 

Bob Blaylock

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Basically what you are saying is that once the mRNA "wears off" you are in no worse of a position than someone who never got the vaccine. Is that correct?

We do not know that. That is the best possible case for this mRNA shit.

At this point, we have no basis on which to know what adverse long-term effects may manifest in people who were stupid enough to allow this shit to be injected into them.
 

Rigby5

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Covaxin is a two dose vaccine with efficacy similar to the Johnson and Johnson vaccine but well below the mRNA vaccines. It is also a virus based vaccine which suffers from the same problem of all virus based vaccines, getting people to take a vaccine containing the virus.

There is now about 5 vaccines being used against Covid. There will probably be no agreement which is the best as they have slightly different pros and cons. However, they have all been proven safe and effective for at least 6 months.

At least 6 months is nothing.
What happens 5 years later if the mRNA injection starts causing our own immune system to start attacking our own exosomes.
The chances for an mRNA injection to morph into a deadly autoimmune disease is a million times higher than when a real virus is used.
What we need to know is if they have any useful effect AFTER 6 months.
It does not appear so.
 

Rigby5

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Infecting people with a live virus knowing that a significant percentage are going to get sick and die might seem justified looking at the statistics but I seriously doubt that it would provide protection from the lawsuits and probably criminal prosecution which is one reason it would not happen.

All epidemics end due to herd immunity. At the time of the Spanish Influenza pandemic, the cause, and preventive measures were unknown. There were some that believed it was spread by an airborne pathogen, or through contact, poor quality food, or foul water. Although masks were used in some places, it was certainly not encouraged by governments and social distancing was staying away from those known to be sick, certainly not staying a prescribed distance from the general public.

Yes it would be safe from lawsuits just as vaccines that kill are also safe from lawsuits.
That is because deliberate infection would have killed more like 50,000 only, instead of the 750,000 that we killed by "flattening the curve".
It is "flattening the curve" that should get sued for deliberate murder.

And you are wrong about the Spanish flu.
Masks and social distancing were mandated by law, and thousands of resistors were jailed.
Of course I could not have lived through it in order to know, but my father did, and he described it in great detail.

{...
During the Spanish flu era, officials pushing public health mandates to stop the pandemic in its tracks were met with pushback across the country. From San Francisco to Atlanta, Denver to Cleveland, pockets of opposition sprang up to decry the effects of the restrictions on businesses, religious communities and ordinary people.

...

"I think that human nature being what it is, people don't like to have their lives disrupted," said Alex Navarro, assistant director of the Center for the History of Medicine at the University of Michigan, which detailed historical accounts of the 1918-19 flu pandemic in 43 cities. "Initially, they might go along with it, but as these closure orders drag on and as people's lives continue to be fractured, there's a breaking point."
...
a vocal minority of San Franciscans risked going to jail rather than cover theirs face during the Spanish flu pandemic.

When the city began to require masks, residents largely complied, feeling a sense of duty that dovetailed with the patriotic solidarity of World War I. "The man or woman or child who will not wear a mask now is a dangerous slacker," a public service announcement from the American Red Cross said at the time.

But not everyone was on board. Hordes of scofflaws were caught not wearing or incorrectly wearing masks. More than 100 people were rounded up and charged with "disturbing the peace" shortly after the measure went into place and were fined $5 on one day in October. Most cases were dismissed, and the proceeds went to support the American Red Cross.

In another incident, a public health officer for the city shot and severely wounded a man for not wearing a mask in late October, the San Francisco Chronicle reported at the time.
...}
 

Rigby5

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Basically what you are saying is that once the mRNA "wears off" you are in no worse of a position than someone who never got the vaccine. Is that correct?

No, the mRNA injection is so small that it does not stay in the muscle, and migrated instead.
Depending on where it ends up, you can die or need hands and feet amputated.
There are also unlimited, unknown, long term consequences.
 

ding

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We do not know that. That is the best possible case for this mRNA shit.

At this point, we have no basis on which to know what adverse long-term effects may manifest in people who were stupid enough to allow this shit to be injected into them.
So you believe that by taking an mRNA vaccine that after it wears off that one is at a greater risk of getting covid compared to someone who has never had covid or gotten the vaccine? Are you sure you understand how mRNA vaccines work? Because I know how they work and there are no long term effects because the vaccine is only parts of the virus. It isn't a living thing. The worst thing that can happen is it wears off and you will be no worse off than had you never got one. Of course I'm not convinced that the body forgets completely. So I would expect reduced efficacy at the worst.
 

ding

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No, the mRNA injection is so small that it does not stay in the muscle, and migrated instead.
Depending on where it ends up, you can die or need hands and feet amputated.
There are also unlimited, unknown, long term consequences.
Where are you getting this nonsense from?
 

ding

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Rigby5

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So you believe that by taking an mRNA vaccine that after it wears off that one is at a greater risk of getting covid compared to someone who has never had covid or gotten the vaccine? Are you sure you understand how mRNA vaccines work? Because I know how they work and there are no long term effects because the vaccine is only parts of the virus. It isn't a living thing. The worst thing that can happen is it wears off and you will be no worse off than had you never got one. Of course I'm not convinced that the body forgets completely. So I would expect reduced efficacy at the worst.

Wrong.
The mRNA injections do not contain the virus or any virus parts.
They contain mRNA instructions for the ribosomes in our own cells, to start our own cells to start growing spike proteins.

And there are several problems with this strategy.
One is that the mRNA is so small it is not confined to the muscle injection site.
And depending on where it ends up, it has caused death or the need for amputation of hands or feet.
And additional means of death is that it has no quantity control, so can make so many spike proteins grow that you get a fatal autoimmune response.
 

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