Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

LittleNipper

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I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.
TRUE Christianity is founded on a friendship/relationship between GOD and man. Religions are man's way of thinking he is making himself acceptable to the Creator, whereas, true Christianity comprehends that there can be no way for a sinful being to be able to absolve himself of his shortcomings without GOD's intervention.
 

Grumblenuts

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A "friendship/relationship" based upon fear. Of loss, damnation, rejection,.. whatever. Lovely.
 

LittleNipper

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A "friendship/relationship" based upon fear. Of loss, damnation, rejection,.. whatever.
Sorry, but the saved individual has absolutely no fear of eternal damnation. Once saved that individual becomes an adopted child of the FATHER through the MESSIAH (who becomes his BROTHER) and his sin will be fully covered by this SAVIOR.
 

Grumblenuts

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Sorry, but I've simply never felt hopelessly sinful. No intervention sought. None required. Why presume yourself so in need of supernatural repair? Do your gods perform the same function for chimpanzees? If not, name a big difference you can actually point to?
 

Meriweather

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Religions are man's way of thinking he is making himself acceptable to the Creator, whereas, true Christianity comprehends that there can be no way for a sinful being to be able to absolve himself of his shortcomings without GOD's intervention.
I do not believe that is the mark of 'True Christianity' because it leaves out a vital part of Jesus' mission and teaching. Jesus' biggest battle was announcing sins are forgiven. Religious leaders of the time vehemently opposed this statement and argued fiercely that Jesus had no authority to make such a statement. They demanded a sign. What we were given was the sign of a New Covenant, and Covenants between God and mankind were sealed with blood. Christ gave his own blood as the sign of this New Covenant (or Testament) and did not let anyone or anything prevent him from obedience to carry out this will of the Father, not even death.

Christians learn two things from Jesus' life: The first is the power of one's obedience to the will of God; the second that sins are forgiven.

The Jews of the time were correct in one thing: Only God forgives sins (we see how hard it is for us to sometimes forgive ourselves of our own sins). They were incorrect in their view that Jesus had no right to announce sins ARE forgiven (not that someday God might forgive them). This is the Good News Jesus wanted the world to know. Sins are forgiven. In my opinion no Christian has the right or the authority to change this message. (We should note however, that it is repentance, or the turning away from the sin, that results in God's forgiveness. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins.)
 

Grumblenuts

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Given "Sins are forgiven" why continue to worrying about us being sinners? Must involve fear of some sort.
 

Oldestyle

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I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.
You do know there is a difference between an agnostic and an atheist...right, Sealy?

Oh, wait...one more thing you're clueless about? Carry on....
 

LittleNipper

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Religions are man's way of thinking he is making himself acceptable to the Creator, whereas, true Christianity comprehends that there can be no way for a sinful being to be able to absolve himself of his shortcomings without GOD's intervention.
I do not believe that is the mark of 'True Christianity' because it leaves out a vital part of Jesus' mission and teaching. Jesus' biggest battle was announcing sins are forgiven. Religious leaders of the time vehemently opposed this statement and argued fiercely that Jesus had no authority to make such a statement. They demanded a sign. What we were given was the sign of a New Covenant, and Covenants between God and mankind were sealed with blood. Christ gave his own blood as the sign of this New Covenant (or Testament) and did not let anyone or anything prevent him from obedience to carry out this will of the Father, not even death.

Christians learn two things from Jesus' life: The first is the power of one's obedience to the will of God; the second that sins are forgiven.

The Jews of the time were correct in one thing: Only God forgives sins (we see how hard it is for us to sometimes forgive ourselves of our own sins). They were incorrect in their view that Jesus had no right to announce sins ARE forgiven (not that someday God might forgive them). This is the Good News Jesus wanted the world to know. Sins are forgiven. In my opinion no Christian has the right or the authority to change this message. (We should note however, that it is repentance, or the turning away from the sin, that results in God's forgiveness. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins.)
First and foremost one must accept that one is indeed a sinner in need of saving. One cannot be saved without acknowledging one's personal shortcomings. Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection can cover everyone's sin for all time; HOWEVER, only one who willingly accepts GOD's free gift will be saved. Remember the 2 thieves on the crosses beside that of CHRIST. Only one repented and saw Jesus as having done nothing wrong. The other only mocked CHRIST and in essence said, "If you're really the MESSIAH then get us off these crosses!" The other in fact said, "We deserve to be here but HE doesn't. LORD please remember me." And this also is part of a TRUE CHRISTIAN'S job to hold up a mirror to reveal sin and not excuse nor disguise it under fig leaves. This can only be accomplished as he searches his own heart and humbly witnesses to those around himself.
 

Meriweather

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First and foremost one must accept that one is indeed a sinner in need of saving. One cannot be saved without acknowledging one's personal shortcomings. Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection can cover everyone's sin for all time; HOWEVER, only one who willingly accepts GOD's free gift will be saved. Remember the 2 thieves on the crosses beside that of CHRIST. Only one repented and saw Jesus as having done nothing wrong. The other only mocked CHRIST and in essence said, "If you're really the MESSIAH then get us off these crosses!" The other in fact said, "We deserve to be here but HE doesn't. LORD please remember me." And this also is part of a TRUE CHRISTIAN'S job to hold up a mirror to reveal sin and not excuse nor disguise it under fig leaves. This can only be accomplished as he searches his own heart and humbly witnesses to those around himself.
Jesus taught, Sins are forgiven; repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 'Repentance' means turn from. Of course one must first recognize that there is something they should turn from--and then turn to. We turn from disobedience (sin) to God and turn to obedience to God. Some may call this a "free gift"; those of us with a more scientific bent might see it as "reality". The two are not that far apart. I am thankful for the teaching.
 

zaangalewa

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try to imagine a dolphin, who creates all existence - what do you see?
The exact same thing as imagining some god doing it. Silliness.
I have to give you back your compliment. You are an agressive idiot, who tries to avoid to think. Imagine it was nothing - and then "suddenly" was something - including space and time. That's an idea which is about 1700 years old in the Christian world. His word of creation is timeless. This qualitative idea - interesting, but not really necessary for the Christian faith - finds a nice quantitative realisation in the theory of relativity.

I would say the very big problem of atheists is often the little word "not". Yes and no are not like + and - in mathematics or 0 and 1 in a computer. Example: If somehting is not a stone - then this something is able to be everything what is not a stone. But no one knows everything. Not to know everything makes no one silly. So to say: "it was not this way" means only it was an unknown other way - but not which way. In the end knows no one anything any longer. And in a situation of nothing god created the world. Was god existing when he created existence? Who knows? If he exists not now - will he exist in the next second? Who knows? Do you really think all others, who do not think like you are doing, are only silly? If so: What made you unsilly? How to prove this?
This post is kind of silly.


It's like asking what is obscene? It's hard to define but you know it when you see it or hear it.

I know the difference between silly thoughts and serious thoughts.
This you call "open mind"? Simple defamation?
 
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zaangalewa

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Human beings are social animals.
The question was: Why are you not a social animal and you make only the mimicry to communicate?

The reason why I asked was this sentence from you: "We choose never to "study" or "worship" such bullshit. No matter how cleverly served up. Hooray!" ("we" = all atheists in this context)
 
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zaangalewa

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...

They easily see god when we can’t and we see morality in nature and they can’t see it.
Give me please a concrete example for morality in nature. I can see for example a healthy behavior and even a kind of moral in context with some single animals in special situations - for example a rat with good eyes, which leaded another blind rat with the help of a little stick. This is for sure more moral than a human being shows, which kills a blind man and robs him, because it is easy to do so. But do you see "morality" of nature in general or even in other structures - as for example in an exploding volcano? Is it moral, what had happened with Pompeji for example?
 

zaangalewa

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Religions are man's way of thinking he is making himself acceptable to the Creator, whereas, true Christianity comprehends that there can be no way for a sinful being to be able to absolve himself of his shortcomings without GOD's intervention.
I do not believe that is the mark of 'True Christianity' because it leaves out a vital part of Jesus' mission and teaching. Jesus' biggest battle was announcing sins are forgiven. Religious leaders of the time vehemently opposed this statement and argued fiercely that Jesus had no authority to make such a statement. They demanded a sign. What we were given was the sign of a New Covenant, and Covenants between God and mankind were sealed with blood. Christ gave his own blood as the sign of this New Covenant (or Testament) and did not let anyone or anything prevent him from obedience to carry out this will of the Father, not even death.

Christians learn two things from Jesus' life: The first is the power of one's obedience to the will of God; the second that sins are forgiven.

The Jews of the time were correct in one thing: Only God forgives sins (we see how hard it is for us to sometimes forgive ourselves of our own sins). They were incorrect in their view that Jesus had no right to announce sins ARE forgiven (not that someday God might forgive them). This is the Good News Jesus wanted the world to know. Sins are forgiven. In my opinion no Christian has the right or the authority to change this message. (We should note however, that it is repentance, or the turning away from the sin, that results in God's forgiveness. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins.)
That's by the way very important in our daily life. Whatever someone did - nobody is a able to change the past. Why to arrest someone, if this person is not a danger for others in the future? The thoughts around revenge are unfortunatelly much more "powerful" than the thoughts around preventions. A murder, which will not happen, activates not much psychological and social energy. A similar system of underestimation exists in social security systems - what Corona teached very well. For example: To lose a job and to lose the same time health security is a man made bad situation within a nature made bad situation. ... By the way: One of the worst pictures this week was to see Trump to let policemen fight against demonstrants, so he was able to take a bible in the hand in front of a church like a book of war. I think this man never had visited any church in his life on personal reasons - and now he misuses even the bible like a war flag. Disgusting. Who takes the bible should speak in another way than this atheist is doing. ... What the USA now needs is peace - a true peace without racism between all US-Americans of all roots.

God - you see what they need - help them.

 
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Grumblenuts

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Human beings are social animals.
The question was: Why are you not a social animal and you make only the mimicry to communicate?

The reason why I asked was this sentence from you: "We choose never to "study" or "worship" such bullshit. No matter how cleverly served up. Hooray!" ("we" = all atheists in this context)
No, that was not the question. The question was:
What exactly is the reason why you "communicate" with others?
Don't lie. You're religious, remember? Keep that up you'll be going to hell.

I'm human. Thus an animal. One of the social sort. No choice. Built that way. Same as you. Be minimally social or go nuts. Don't like that answer. Oh well. Try respecting nature's teachings about us. Not dusty, old fairy tales. You're welcome.
 
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Grumblenuts

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So tell me please: Why exists something at all? Why is not only nothing?
Short answer: Nature abhors a vacuum - Aristotle
Way ahead of his time. Smarter than his critics.
 
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Grumblenuts

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Jesus taught, Sins are forgiven; repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 'Repentance' means turn from. Of course one must first recognize that there is something they should turn from--and then turn to. We turn from disobedience (sin) to God and turn to obedience to God.
Not in response to me, but thanks. That more than serves to address my earlier question. So I gather this "God" was demanding "Repentance" while Jesus (supposedly his son and kinder self somehow?) said, in effect, Oh, screw that and screw you. You're too mean these days. We don't need none of that final judgment crap from you to worry about no more. I'm gonna go right ahead and forgive everyone. Now and forever. Then he reportedly did. So now God's permanently pissed. Probably just itching for revenge.. Great job, Jesus.

And we're supposed to be grateful? For something we never need worry about so likely remain blissfully ignorant of? Until maybe some annoying Christian randomly bumps into us somewhere and spreads us this "good news"? Else what? We die ignorant, but get "Saved" anyway?

Gee, if that doesn't inspire folks to waste more of their precious short existence "studying" religion I don't know what will!
 
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