Open Borders

[sky dancer]

I'm the evil illegal alien. I'm gonna eat you up!

 

[Vel]

I'm the evil illegal alien. I'm gonna eat you up!

Before you do.. would you please let us know how the welfare systems would deal with all the new residents were you to open the borders? How many people can climb in the cart before the wheels fall off?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Before you do.. would you please let us know how the welfare systems would deal with all the new residents were you to open the borders? How many people can climb in the cart before the wheels fall off?

Dude, just because the borders are open doesn't mean visitors are not visitors... only bona fide citizens are eligible for unemployment and welfare. If a visitor can't feed himself and any minors he / she is responsible for he / she should go home.

Open borders are not insecure if every crossing is documented.

-Joe

 

[editec]

I'm just waiting to see what happens with this topic. It's very difficult to get people out of their ruts when discussing immigration.

If all the people that are illegally in the US for jobs became legal overnight--the grouches would continue to grouse.

The issue is not really who is here legally and who is not.

That's partially true.

My objection to the massive illegal immigrantion is mostly economical.

Vastly increasing the labor market depresses the value of labor.

Throw in the fact that introducing vast numbers of people also strains the social services and infrastructure of our society, and there's two reasons to object to allowing this to continue.

 

[Zoom-boing]

What I'd like to do in this thread is discuss the idea of open borders. There is a book I'd like to read by Jason Riley, a writer for the Wall Street Journal editorial page called LET THEM IN.
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Let Them In: The Case for Open Borders

You are so full of it. Once again you dodge questions that you simply have no answers for. Message received loud and clear.

 

[Vel]

Dude, just because the borders are open doesn't mean visitors are not visitors... only bona fide citizens are eligible for unemployment and welfare. If a visitor can't feed himself and any minors he / she is responsible for he / she should go home.

Open borders are not insecure if every crossing is documented.

-Joe

Really? You should tell that to Obama's aunt. Seriously.. when all it takes to access government services is to give birth or even have a child in the school system, then open borders would break us,

 

[AVG-JOE]

Really? You should tell that to Obama's aunt. Seriously.. when all it takes to access government services is to give birth or even have a child in the school system, then open borders would break us,

Agreed. That is why open borders need to come with visitor status for visitors and citizen status for citizens, and there needs to be a perk of some sort to being a citizen. This is the only humane way to deal with all of the illegal aliens who have a life here in the states.

-Joe

 

[Ravi]

It might be worth trying, certainly what we do now doesn't seem to work.

It would still be a good idea to let people that want to become citizens become citizens because that is the only way you win their loyalty.

 

[007]

I'm the evil illegal alien. I'm gonna eat you up!

So you open a thread wanting to discuss open borders, and when asked to explain how opening them would magically make vetting out the criminals easier, and THIS is your ANSWER? C'mon sky, you're not helping your cause at all.

Dude, just because the borders are open doesn't mean visitors are not visitors... only bona fide citizens are eligible for unemployment and welfare. If a visitor can't feed himself and any minors he / she is responsible for he / she should go home.

Open borders are not insecure if every crossing is documented.

-Joe

Dude... you didn't watch this did you?

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It might be worth trying, certainly what we do now doesn't seem to work.

It would still be a good idea to let people that want to become citizens become citizens because that is the only way you win their loyalty.

Really. Just throwing open the borders to America is all of a sudden going to magically make everyone that comes here "loyal?" And just how does that work for these people, you know, the MILLIONS that want to TAKE OVER AMERICA?!

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[Againsheila]

Dude, just because the borders are open doesn't mean visitors are not visitors... only bona fide citizens are eligible for unemployment and welfare. If a visitor can't feed himself and any minors he / she is responsible for he / she should go home.

Open borders are not insecure if every crossing is documented.

-Joe

That's not true at all. Legal residents, if laid off, are intitled to unemployment. Many legal immigrants come over here and have organizations to help them to live off the system. These organizations are free to them and many of them get our tax dollars to function. We have no such organizations to help Americans learn to work the system.

At one time they tried to take ssi away from people who weren't citizens and the outcry was enourmous. The newspaper printed up a story of an old lady living in subsidized housing in Tacoma that had been living off the tax payer for decades. She didn't speak a word of English. She was not a citizen, but she was a legal resident (I don't know, maybe she was one of those granted amnesty).

 

[Againsheila]

It would be a lot easier to vet out the criminals if the borders were open.

How?

 

[007]

How?

Hope you have better luck asking that than I did Sheila...

 

[Againsheila]

That's partially true.

My objection to the massive illegal immigrantion is mostly economical.

Vastly increasing the labor market depresses the value of labor.

Throw in the fact that introducing vast numbers of people also strains the social services and infrastructure of our society, and there's two reasons to object to allowing this to continue.

For me, it's not just economical. We have limited resources. As I said before, a study I read that was published in 2006 said that at the current rate of population increase in our state we would run out of water by 2016. I live in the Pacific Northwest. Can you imagine running out of water in the wettest place in the states?

In the 70's, Americans were convinced to limit the number of children they have due to overpopulation and limited resources. We complied. Americans now have children at less than replacement value. Less children means less workers, fewer workers means those there are, are in bigger demand, bigger demand means higher wages and a smaller income gap. But instead, infettered immigration has taken away from our sacrifice and we are being punished. Our wages are being lowered instead of raised, our jobs are being taken away from us, etc. I picked berries as a kid. It was the only way around here to make money if you were under sixteen. When my sister in law came her from Thailand, her English was not good and she wanted a job, so I took her up to get the bus to go pick berries. I was 18. Here's an interesting twist, the bus driver took her AND all the asians at the busstop, but didn't take me. The only caucasion there. He'd not met me before or her, but he left me at the busstop. My sister in law went that day and said "never again".

Illegals come in and take these jobs away from Americans and the farmers treat them like crap because they can, after all, they're illegal, what are they gonna do about it?

My friend has been a maid for decades. She's been pushed out of two jobs by hispanics. One gets hired, then another and eventually they take over and when the hours have to be cut, they cut the hours on the Americans and they can't make a living anymore. Hispanics take care of there own, maybe it's time we started taking care of OUR own.

I have friends in the constuction industry. When I was in highschool, it paid good money. Now, 30 years later, they are making barely more than they did when they got out of highschoool. Illegals are taking their jobs away from them. Heck at one homesite, MS-13 was working on a house across the street and came over to talk to their boss, my friends lost their jobs.

I don't care that people like sky dancer see them as victims, the truth is they are victimizing americans and we are losing to them.

Even legal hispanics are losing their jobs as well as their id's to illegal immigrants. This is WRONG! The only way to fix this is to enforce our laws, and protect our borders.

 

[Againsheila]

Hope you have better luck asking that than I did Sheila...

I doubt she can answer it. It doesn't seem logical to me. How does allowing the free flow of people across our border make it easier to get rid of criminals?

That's like saying, if you don't filter your water, it will be easier to get rid of contaminents.

 

[catzmeow]

We had a bracero program after World War II to take care of a shortage of farm workers. And when that program was in effect, illegal immigration from Mexico was reduced to a trickle.

Let me ask you, Wind. Do we, at present, have a shortage of unskilled workers in the U.S.?

 

[Ravi]

Really. Just throwing open the borders to America is all of a sudden going to magically make everyone that comes here "loyal?" And just how does that work for these people, you know, the MILLIONS that want to TAKE OVER AMERICA?!

That's not what I said. I said let the ones that want to become Americans become Americans. And not only will this ensure their loyalty, it will also allow them to work and pay taxes...and right now we sure could use a big infusion of money.

At the very least decriminalize being undocumented. The reason companies can get away with paying substandard wages is because the people they hire know they can be turned over to the INS. If they can't be turned over to the INS they are free to report companies for paying illegal wages. If Tyson chicken can't make a profit by paying a fair salary, let them go offshore and try to sell to us...and then don't buy from them. I'm sick of coddling corporate America. Toyota and Honda have both proven you can make a profit and pay decent salaries right here in the USA.

 

[dilloduck]

That's not what I said. I said let the ones that want to become Americans become Americans. And not only will this ensure their loyalty, it will also allow them to work and pay taxes...and right now we sure could use a big infusion of money.

At the very least decriminalize being undocumented. The reason companies can get away with paying substandard wages is because the people they hire know they can be turned over to the INS. If they can't be turned over to the INS they are free to report companies for paying illegal wages. If Tyson chicken can't make a profit by paying a fair salary, let them go offshore and try to sell to us...and then don't buy from them. I'm sick of coddling corporate America. Toyota and Honda have both proven you can make a profit and pay decent salaries right here in the USA.

A big infusion of money from illegals ??? Surely you jest.

 

[catzmeow]

That's not what I said. I said let the ones that want to become Americans become Americans. And not only will this ensure their loyalty, it will also allow them to work and pay taxes...and right now we sure could use a big infusion of money.

This is sloppy reasoning. Our unemployment rate is currently on the rise. What this means is that we have more people than jobs. Adding more people to the equation will bring wages down (because wages rise and fall in proportion to the availability of qualified workers). Falling wages = falling taxes. Rising unemployment = an increase in government subsidies to the unemployed. This will only INCREASE the economic woes we are currently suffering nationally.

 

[catzmeow]

A big infusion of money from illegals ??? Surely you jest.

A big infusion of cash for MEXICO. Definitely not a big infusion of cash for American workers, American companies, or the American government.

 

[Ravi]

A big infusion of money from illegals ??? Surely you jest.

No, surely I don't. I know in your mind immigrants stay in dead end jobs forever, but it just isn't true.