Oops: CBO Says GOP Health Care ‘Alternative’ Leaves 52 Million Uninsured By 2019

[Maple]

Thanks. I normally don't react in such a manner, but the snarky comment ("I am sure that is not the first time they were "victims"') put me over that edge and I stand by what I said to that idiot.

Emma, there are solutions in the private sector and I would think that you would be concerned about a national take over of our health care system, especially being that you are a health care provider.

I really would not think that you, as a professional, would want to be placed under government control. I realize that the insurance industry needs to be reformed so that more people can be covered, but that public option would overwhelm health care providers to a point that rationing would have to go into place and of course, reduce the quality of care we now enjoy. It's unreasonable to think that we can insure an additional 40million people and retain quality with the same number of physicians and health care providers we have today. It's just not possible.

There are other solutions and this all can be handled in a step by step fashion with a reasonable outcome for all. We need to take small steps with this because if we allow the federal government full control of our health care options, we will end up with a health care system that has the compassion of the IRS, the efficiency of the Postal Service and will look like the aftermath of Katrina.

" A government big enough to give you everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

 

[Emma]

If she is insured, she is not a good example of why we need the government involved more than they already are in insurance. Learn some critical thinking skills, bitchtits.

I haven't said anything on this thread about a friend with cancer, dumbass.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

If I fail to get insurance, fail to save up for a medical emergency, and end up in an emergency room, how would you describe my decision-making process?

If you can't get insurance due to a pre-existing condition (Which is common), then it doesn't matter how much you save. You'll still be wiped out. Dad's final hospital stay cost $80,000. Thank god insurance covered most of that. What it didn't cover life insurance and us kids did.

I've got pretty solid savings and investments and I make x2 what my Dad made and an $80,000.00 hospital bill woud wipe me out.

Insurance is not meant to cover pre-existing conditions. You really want to purchase a policy BEFORE the car accident...

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

And I know four people in my life who have confronted cancer -

My Dad - finally dies of old age at 88 - NOT wiped out.
My friend - Dead from cancer - NOT wiped out financially.
My friend - Survivor, NOT wiped out.
Coworker - Survivor - NOT wiped out.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Actually, what your doing in the early years IS paying for service that your not using. If you wait until your in the years needing it, the insurance companies are losing with payouts. I feel that it's all offset in a persons lifetime of being insured. What I'm trying to say is that your paying it forward.

I am not disagreeing with you about the mechanics of it. Insurance companies definately make more money if they can force individuals with low risk to buy a policy.

They make money at one point in a life, and shell it out at another point in a life. If the person waits until after he needs the insurance, then he's denied for pre existing conditions...who's fault is that? Not mine, that's why I don't believe in public option for those who could have afforded insurance.
You want people to pay for your stupidity...nope. It's like having no auto insurance, and then want to buy it after an accident to pay for the accident...life doesn't work like that.
You seem to be pretty dense, or willy nilly with MY money.
If a person doesn't want insurance...maybe he should put up a $500,000 bond in lieu of insurance...I would go for that.

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said, except the "you want people to pay for your stupidity" part.

 

[DiamondDave]

Nobody. That's the problem.

There are Pharmacy companies that give out prescriptions to help folks. Dad struggled with Epilepsy his whole life, and the medications that allowed him to have a somewhat normal life (Only 1-2 seizures a day) were astronomical. Forutnately, he was able to get hooked up with a program that got him his meds for free.

Dad got his insurance through Mom's work towards the end of his life. Thank god for that. If he hadn't got insurance at the end, then my Mom would be wiped out and us kids would be in serious trouble.

That's what's at stake here. The current medical system is such that you can be completely wiped out from just one hospitalization. If you don't have, or can't get insurance then its game over.

And that is just screwed up.

Its getting worse. Everytime someone goes bankrupt from Medical expenses, or flat out can't pay, that debt doesn't just dissapear. It gets absorbed by higher costs, fueling more bankruptcies or skipping out on the bill, meaning higher costs....

It just isn't stopping.

And most everyone is just one civil lawsuit judgment away from being completely wiped out.. You get a government bailout for that too??

Most everyone is one tornado, hurricane, or rock slide away from being wiped out... you get free housing at the expense of everyone else now too because you are simply owed it?

Most everyone is one good robbery away from losing all that they own.. You get full replacement of all your stuff from the government, at taxpayer expense, for that too??

Personal shit happens in life... that bad can bring us all to the brink.. does not mean we are owed or entitled to a reset button at the expense of others

 

[Dr.Traveler]

If I fail to get insurance, fail to save up for a medical emergency, and end up in an emergency room, how would you describe my decision-making process?

If you can't get insurance due to a pre-existing condition (Which is common), then it doesn't matter how much you save. You'll still be wiped out. Dad's final hospital stay cost $80,000. Thank god insurance covered most of that. What it didn't cover life insurance and us kids did.

I've got pretty solid savings and investments and I make x2 what my Dad made and an $80,000.00 hospital bill woud wipe me out.

Insurance is not meant to cover pre-existing conditions. You really want to purchase a policy BEFORE the car accident...

Right now, it doesn't matter what your pre-existing condition is. If you have one, you get refused coverage for all of your future illnesses.

You seem to be intentionally missing the point. Insurance is not available to people with pre-existing conditions, and health care costs are now high enough you can be wiped out in one visit, even if you save an enormous amount of your income against a rainy day.

The reason we all should care, is that when someone is wiped out, the rest of us pay the bill.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

If she is insured, she is not a good example of why we need the government involved more than they already are in insurance. Learn some critical thinking skills, bitchtits.

I haven't said anything on this thread about a friend with cancer, dumbass.

you still have a fat ass and I still wont sleep with you. You did mention a woman with cancer that apparently has insurance as an example of why we need a public option.

 

[Maple]

You really believe private charity can pick up the slack?

I know they can.. as I have seen it with my neighbors... though they still have a lot of expenses they pay for out of pocket, the private charity has helped them a ton... and their family, neighbors, and friends have all contributed to and have done work for the charity that helped them out because we CHOSE to support a great charity like that

When you reduce the size of govt... ensuring that we don't pay 50% of our income in various taxes to support the bloated government.. charities can benefit even more

You really think government (funded by citizen contributors) exists to pay for your personal well-being responsibility?

Charities can only act as a safety net when the economy is sound enough to enable charitable giving. When the economy crashes, the charities are among the hardest hit.

That's the basic reason that many of the Federal Welfare programs came into being in the 30's and 40's. The need was there prior to that. The need is always there. However, in the face of an economic collapse the traditional ways of meeting that need failed.

That's why health care is an issue now. As people lose their jobs, even the privately insured are losing their insurance. Those uninsured still get sick, only now with greater frequency as their decreased income translates to decreased nutrition and a lack of preventative medicine. Health care costs money they can't afford, so they sink deeper into debt, declare bankruptcy, etc, and we with insurance pay the bills.

I am hearing horror stories from people who are looking for jobs many have been out of work for over a year. If you look at the exit polling in the Virginia and New Jersey elections, they all stated that the economy was the first of their concerns, health care was way down the list.

When you don't have a job, you don't have money to pay for rent, food, clothing, anything. There's the priority right now, it's not health care, it's jobs and the economy.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

If you can't get insurance due to a pre-existing condition (Which is common), then it doesn't matter how much you save. You'll still be wiped out. Dad's final hospital stay cost $80,000. Thank god insurance covered most of that. What it didn't cover life insurance and us kids did.

I've got pretty solid savings and investments and I make x2 what my Dad made and an $80,000.00 hospital bill woud wipe me out.

Insurance is not meant to cover pre-existing conditions. You really want to purchase a policy BEFORE the car accident...

Right now, it doesn't matter what your pre-existing condition is. If you have one, you get refused coverage for all of your future illnesses.

You seem to be intentionally missing the point. Insurance is not available to people with pre-existing conditions, and health care costs are now high enough you can be wiped out in one visit, even if you save an enormous amount of your income against a rainy day.

The reason we all should care, is that when someone is wiped out, the rest of us pay the bill.

Funny- but i had back surgery in 2002. And my insurance covers current treatment for back pain. Now, When my disc slipped and I sought coverage, I understand why no insurance company would touch me.

 

[Emma]

If she is insured, she is not a good example of why we need the government involved more than they already are in insurance. Learn some critical thinking skills, bitchtits.

I haven't said anything on this thread about a friend with cancer, dumbass.

you still have a fat ass and I still wont sleep with you. You did mention a woman with cancer that apparently has insurance as an example of why we need a public option.

No I didn't, moron. It was Maple who posted that, dipshit.

I know one person who came down with cancer, had no health insurance, and medicaid picked up the total cost of her treatment, hospitalization, everything. To say that people are denied health care because they do not have health insurance is absolutely absurd. It just doesn't happen.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Your post misses the point. Let me explain.

And most everyone is just one civil lawsuit judgment away from being completely wiped out.. You get a government bailout for that too??

If you get wiped out because you get sued, I won't end up paying that bill. So no, I don't see the need for a bailout.

Most everyone is one tornado, hurricane, or rock slide away from being wiped out... you get free housing at the expense of everyone else now too because you are simply owed it?

If your home gets wiped out, I won't be paying your bills. So no. I don't see the need for a bailout.

Most everyone is one good robbery away from losing all that they own.. You get full replacement of all your stuff from the government, at taxpayer expense, for that too??

If your house gets robbed, I won't be the one paying your bills, so no. No bailout.

Personal shit happens in life... that bad can bring us all to the brink.. does not mean we are owed or entitled to a reset button at the expense of others

Unfortunately though, when it comes to health care those that can't pay are already getting a bailout at everyone else's expense. The reason healthcare is different from every situation you listed is because if you get wiped out by a medical bill, I'll end up having to pay it.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Funny- but i had back surgery in 2002. And my insurance covers current treatment for back pain. Now, When my disc slipped and I sought coverage, I understand why no insurance company would touch me.

Are you saying you can't get insurance now?

Great. So if you get sick before they pass universal health care then you're yet another person I'll end up paying for. Just great.

If that's not what you're saying, then I don't understand what your post has to do with mine.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

I haven't said anything on this thread about a friend with cancer, dumbass.

you still have a fat ass and I still wont sleep with you. You did mention a woman with cancer that apparently has insurance as an example of why we need a public option.

No I didn't, moron. It was Maple who posted that, dipshit.

I know one person who came down with cancer, had no health insurance, and medicaid picked up the total cost of her treatment, hospitalization, everything. To say that people are denied health care because they do not have health insurance is absolutely absurd. It just doesn't happen.

Toche. But your ass is still fat.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Quote: Originally Posted by DiamondDave

And most everyone is just one civil lawsuit judgment away from being completely wiped out.. You get a government bailout for that too??
If you get wiped out because you get sued, I won't end up paying that bill. So no, I don't see the need for a bailout.


of course you will. In exactly the same way we "pay" for the uninsured. Higher costs.

 

[DiamondDave]

Your post misses the point. Let me explain.

And most everyone is just one civil lawsuit judgment away from being completely wiped out.. You get a government bailout for that too??

If you get wiped out because you get sued, I won't end up paying that bill. So no, I don't see the need for a bailout.

Most everyone is one tornado, hurricane, or rock slide away from being wiped out... you get free housing at the expense of everyone else now too because you are simply owed it?

If your home gets wiped out, I won't be paying your bills. So no. I don't see the need for a bailout.

Most everyone is one good robbery away from losing all that they own.. You get full replacement of all your stuff from the government, at taxpayer expense, for that too??

If your house gets robbed, I won't be the one paying your bills, so no. No bailout.

Personal shit happens in life... that bad can bring us all to the brink.. does not mean we are owed or entitled to a reset button at the expense of others

Unfortunately though, when it comes to health care those that can't pay are already getting a bailout at everyone else's expense. The reason healthcare is different from every situation you listed is because if you get wiped out by a medical bill, I'll end up having to pay it.

Not if you don't choose many of the in system options..

Personally.. I think hospitals and doctors should be allowed to turn away non-emergency cases who have no means to pay.. Personally I think if you are caught spending money on entertainment while you say you can't pay for your bill for your broken arm, you should be sued and incarcerated like if you were caught being a phony with a disability claim

There are plenty of examples where you would pay... You pay on the expenses for your next car loan for someone's delinquent ass costing the company money... You pay on the next trip to Sears when Joe Blow drunkenly rides a van into the store and causes many thousands of dollars in damage when inventory must be replaced, insurance premiums go up, etc... it is a finite world and many things effect each other... still does not mean you are inherently or legally owed something to take care of your own personal needs

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Funny- but i had back surgery in 2002. And my insurance covers current treatment for back pain. Now, When my disc slipped and I sought coverage, I understand why no insurance company would touch me.

Are you saying you can't get insurance now?

Great. So if you get sick before they pass universal health care then you're yet another person I'll end up paying for. Just great.

If that's not what you're saying, then I don't understand what your post has to do with mine.

Nope- I have great insurance. Me and my wife are covered for about 250 a month. My point is that insurance should not cover preexisting conditions.

 

[Polk]

It appears there are those who are so entrenched in hyper-partisan rhetoric, that they will pay double what they should be paying just to protect their rhetoric.

Sad and tragic .... but not completely unexpected.

Of course they would.

 

[Polk]

It appears there are those who are so entrenched in hyper-partisan rhetoric, that they will pay double what they should be paying just to protect their rhetoric.

Sad and tragic .... but not completely unexpected.

Actually, most of us would like to see a system where individuals take responsibility for themselves, instead of elevating every one of their wants into a right, thereby forcing the responsible to take care of the Left.

And now we just venture into more meaningless rhetoric which assumes that most people without health insurance could easily afford it but are just too cheap to buy it.

 

[Polk]

But those facilities and hospitals should be allowed to take action (including legal action) to recover the monies they are owed by those who do not pay....

They are have that ability, but as the old expression goes "you can't get blood from a turnip".