One simple question for MAGA. Do you support Trump's support for Putin in the Ukraine Situation?

[konradv]

1. You stand by it. YOu can't explain it, or defend it, but you stand by it, and demand endless war.

2. 2. You made a point that we own Zelinski unqualified support. I made a valid counterpoint. YOu failed to address it. Are you conceeding that point?

Endless war is Ruzzian propaganda. The war ends, if Russia leaves.

 

[Correll]

It isn’t a stalemate. Russia is losing and Trump is throwing them a lifeline.

Russia is losing? Well, that's great then.

So, Europe has a bigger population and economy that we have, so, filling in for our absense shouldn't be a problem for them.

How much longer until Ukraine WINS then, since you know, Russia is LOSING?

 

[konradv]

Russia is losing? Well, that's great then.

So, Europe has a bigger population and economy that we have, so, filling in for our absense shouldn't be a problem for them.

How much longer until Ukraine WINS then, since you know, Russia is LOSING?

Longer if we don’t help. Why shouldn’t we? It’s really not costing us much beyond surplus supplies, armaments and ammunition. Zelensky doesn’t need money; he needs bullets.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Longer if we don’t help. Why shouldn’t we? It’s really not costing us much beyond surplus supplies, armaments and ammunition. Zelensky doesn’t need money; he needs bullets.

.


For his army of grandpas and children, having killed all the able-bodied men in his country.




.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Left out the BS, but not the core message

/—-/ What BS?

 

[Luckyone]

So, you admit that you point about the "fighting stopping" was a lie.

Well, ok then.

Fighting for freedom should never stop until those that want to take it away stop.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Fighting for freedom should never stop until those that want to take it away stop.

/----/ Oh like when democRATs yanked funding from Vietnam and the Communists swooped in and slaughtered people? You mean fighting for freedom like that?

Communists Take Over Saigon; 'Ho Chi Minh City'​

Between General Minh's surrender broadcast and the entry of the Communist forces into the city, South Vietnamese soldiers and civilians jammed aboard several coastal freighters tied up along...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

/---/ I'm so old, I remember when Liberals were against war at all costs.
View attachment 1084947

I'm so old, I remember when Liberals were kissing the asses of Commies
like Castro, Che and Putin.

Well, I guess 2016 wasn't that long ago.

 

[Donald H]

The EU has announced in their parliament that they have lost the war.

(see Jeffry Sachs' address to the EU parliament of yesterday)

And don't miss the part where Sachs talks of peace and is roundly applauded for his humanity!

 

[Cellblock2429]

I'm so old, I remember when Liberals were kissing the asses of Commies
like Castro, Che and Putin.

Well, I guess 2016 wasn't that long ago.

View attachment 1085074

/----/ And don't forget Gobechav.

 

[Correll]

Longer if we don’t help. Why shouldn’t we? It’s really not costing us much beyond surplus supplies, armaments and ammunition. Zelensky doesn’t need money; he needs bullets.

Becasue we think that he isn't winning, that both sides are losing. Because we think that Zelensky is just losing men to no purpose, that after another year or two, AT BEST, he will get the same deal as he could already have, just with more dead Ukrainians. And more likely, that he will get a worse deal, with higher cost in dead ukrainians.


YOU think that he is winning, or that Russia is losing, but you won't give any time frame for when the dying can stop. Can you at least tell me when you expect the ukrainians to stop losing ground and to start taking it back?

 

[Correll]

Fighting for freedom should never stop until those that want to take it away stop.

YOU made a point that once the russias were to a certain point of exhaustion, that "fighting would stop".

But, when challenged, your point immediately was shown to be false, because actually, that would just begin a new phase of fighting, one where the UKRAINIANS, went on a counter offensive to take back their lands occupied by Russians.

YOU made the false point that fighting would stop. As though it was a reason to support your policy.

BUT, when it is shown to be false, you just, pivot on a dime and are like, "lol, well, of course fighting would continue. Why would you think otherwise?"


The pro-war faction in this dicussion, has been constantly and completely dishonest in their debating, refusing to discuss their motives and lying about what they want or expect to happen.

 

[konradv]

Becasue we think that he isn't winning, that both sides are losing. Because we think that Zelensky is just losing men to no purpose, that after another year or two, AT BEST, he will get the same deal as he could already have, just with more dead Ukrainians. And more likely, that he will get a worse deal, with higher cost in dead ukrainians.


YOU think that he is winning, or that Russia is losing, but you won't give any time frame for when the dying can stop. Can you at least tell me when you expect the ukrainians to stop losing ground and to start taking it back?

Russia is losing or Putin wouldn’t be talking. Europe and Canada can probably go it alone at this point, but why are we turning our back on our allies?

 

[Cellblock2429]

Becasue we think that he isn't winning, that both sides are losing. Because we think that Zelensky is just losing men to no purpose, that after another year or two, AT BEST, he will get the same deal as he could already have, just with more dead Ukrainians. And more likely, that he will get a worse deal, with higher cost in dead ukrainians.


YOU think that he is winning, or that Russia is losing, but you won't give any time frame for when the dying can stop. Can you at least tell me when you expect the ukrainians to stop losing ground and to start taking it back?

/----/

 

[Correll]

Russia is losing or Putin wouldn’t be talking.

That's dumb. There are other possible explanations for why russia is talking and they have been presented to you already.

YOu are LYING, when you pretend that there is only one possible reason for Putin to "be talking".

And, let's be real here, by "talking" you mean, OPEN TO ENDING THE BLOODY WAR AND THE MASSIVE HUMAN SUFFERING.

Europe and Canada can probably go it alone at this point, but why are we turning our back on our allies?

I just answered that. Becasue we think that the war is a bloody stalemate that is just killing people for no point.


It is one thing for you to disagree with me about what the strategic situation is.

It is another for you to lie and pretend that you are UNAWARE that different opinions than your own even EXIST, especially after I have repeatedly explained them to you.


That is you being a bad faith debater.


And let's keep in mind, that you are LYING in support of a war that is resulting in the deaths of thousands of men, women and children.


And you refuse to be honest about why, or what you want from it.

That is not good.

 

[Luckyone]

YOU made a point that once the russias were to a certain point of exhaustion, that "fighting would stop".

But, when challenged, your point immediately was shown to be false, because actually, that would just begin a new phase of fighting, one where the UKRAINIANS, went on a counter offensive to take back their lands occupied by Russians.

YOU made the false point that fighting would stop. As though it was a reason to support your policy.

BUT, when it is shown to be false, you just, pivot on a dime and are like, "lol, well, of course fighting would continue. Why would you think otherwise?"


The pro-war faction in this dicussion, has been constantly and completely dishonest in their debating, refusing to discuss their motives and lying about what they want or expect to happen.

??? So fighting for freedom is allowing the enemy to win by conquering 1/4 of our land?

 

[Correll]

??? So fighting for freedom is allowing the enemy to win by conquering 1/4 of our land?

Again we see the complete dishonesty of hte pro-war faction.

YOu were just arguing that fighting would stop, and when I pointed out that that was a false claim, without having the moral courage to admit you were wrong or lying, or conceeding that point, nor learing from it and adjusting your position,

now you are being a bit more honest, by arguing for the morality of fighting with no time limit.


The problem with that, is that that is also a false posiiton on your part and once that is revealed, instead of conceeding that, you will just move on to another false position, perhaps even one you already lost on.



Watch, I will make you do it.


The ukrainians are not in a position to taket that land back. THey are still LOSING land, though thankfully, slowly. We have no reason to think that them talking it back is on the table, in any reasonable time frame.

Thus, trying is a waste of time and men, in the pursuit of an unrealistic goal.

 

[Care4all]

And, let's be real here, by "talking" you mean, OPEN TO ENDING THE BLOODY WAR AND THE MASSIVE HUMAN SUFFERING.

Putin is a WAR CRIMINAL, for his attack on the Ukrainian people....he, and he alone caused ALL OF THE DEATHS, AND KIDNAPPING OF UKRAINIAN CHILDREN, AND DESTRUCTION OF UKRAINIAN INFRASTRUCTURE.

Why in the hell of hells, would Trump Give Putin EVERYTHING HE WANTS? Or even talk with Putin FIRST?

Trump is creating the biblical and earthly, NEW WORLD ORDER....where America sides with the bad guys....

Why oh why would any American support this? Because Trump says to? You got your brainwashing orders and must always always agree with him?


What in the heck is wrong with you guys?

 

[Luckyone]

Again we see the complete dishonesty of hte pro-war faction.

YOu were just arguing that fighting would stop, and when I pointed out that that was a false claim, without having the moral courage to admit you were wrong or lying, or conceeding that point, nor learing from it and adjusting your position,

now you are being a bit more honest, by arguing for the morality of fighting with no time limit.


The problem with that, is that that is also a false posiiton on your part and once that is revealed, instead of conceeding that, you will just move on to another false position, perhaps even one you already lost on.



Watch, I will make you do it.


The ukrainians are not in a position to taket that land back. THey are still LOSING land, though thankfully, slowly. We have no reason to think that them talking it back is on the table, in any reasonable time frame.

Thus, trying is a waste of time and men, in the pursuit of an unrealistic goal.

Like I said from my first post on this, This is a fight for freedom and for justice. We all need to defend that because if we allow the enemy to win, we have not accomplished anything.

As such, the FIRST step to accomplishing that is to make the enemy STOP his attacks. This has to be done without ANY compromise. After that happens, it is up to Ukrainians (not you or I) to decide whether they are willing to pay the price (allowing Russia to keep the land it has conquered) for no further attacks to come in the future.

Stopping the war should not be compromised on. Russia invaded and killed innocents and he needs to stop with no compromise involved. If he doesn't stop, he should be made to pay a price.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Yep, and the Opposition agrees with that plan...

How are they going to have polling places in Crimea and Donbas?

Crimea voted already. Ukraine will never allow a vote in Donbas because the majority identify as Russian.