Zone1 One significant reason why many do not believe in religion, it is just too damn hard

[ding]

You dont know you believe.

No. I know. I can see God's hand at work in all things. The law of compensation never sleeps.

 

[ding]

Bias always exists

No. It doesn't. It is possible to be objective. It may be difficult but it is not impossible. All you have to do is have no preference for an outcome.

Am I biased when I say to look both ways before crossing a street or am I being objective?

 

[Hafar1014]

No. It doesn't. It is possible to be objective. It may be difficult but it is not impossible. All you have to do is have no preference for an outcome.

A biased idea

 

[ding]

A biased idea

Is the 6th stage of Kohlberg's morality progression describing someone who is subjective or objective?

 

[Hafar1014]

Is the 6th stage of Kohlberg's morality progression describing someone who is subjective or objective?

• Stage 6 - Universal Ethical Principles: Individuals act based on internal, universal, and ethical principles of justice and equality, even if they conflict with laws.

So whats your point. Thats not objective reasoning. My daughter studied under Kohlberg at the university of Delaware. You understand this is theory or model of moral development

Problems with Kohlberg’s Theory​

1. Are there distinct stages of moral development?​

Kohlberg claims there are, but the evidence does not always support this conclusion.

For example, a person who justified a decision based on principled reasoning in one situation (postconventional morality stage 5 or 6) would frequently fall back on conventional reasoning (stage 3 or 4) with another story.

In practice, it seems that reasoning about right and wrong depends more on the situation than on general rules.

Moreover, individuals do not always progress through the stages, and Rest (1979) found that one in fourteen slipped backward.

 

[markef]

And how, exactly, do you know your statement to be true?

I was taught in elementary school that matter cannot create itself.

 

[ding]

• Stage 6 - Universal Ethical Principles: Individuals act based on internal, universal, and ethical principles of justice and equality, even if they conflict with laws.

So whats your point. Thats not objective reasoning. My daughter studied under Kohlberg at the university of Delaware. You understand this is theory or model of moral development

Problems with Kohlberg’s Theory​

1. Are there distinct stages of moral development?​

Kohlberg claims there are, but the evidence does not always support this conclusion.

For example, a person who justified a decision based on principled reasoning in one situation (postconventional morality stage 5 or 6) would frequently fall back on conventional reasoning (stage 3 or 4) with another story.

In practice, it seems that reasoning about right and wrong depends more on the situation than on general rules.

Moreover, individuals do not always progress through the stages, and Rest (1979) found that one in fourteen slipped backward.

My point is that I believe in objective reality. That truth is the destination and our biases are just obstacles we have to clear out of the way. Which is what occurs in the 6th stage of the morality progression. Some might call it enlightenment.

 

[Hafar1014]

My point is that I believe in objective reality. That truth is the destination and our biases are just obstacles we have to clear out of the way. Which is what occurs in the 6th stage of the morality progression. Some might call it enlightenment.

You cannot escape from bias.
Objective reality is a picture or video. Interpretation is bias.
Your statement I believe in objective reality is an oxymoron because you believe believeit. You try and create concepts by usuing words.
The most important way to reduce bias is to admit you have it. Then you reduce it to level where you can think clearly. Its impossible to eliminate it because the li9mbiuc system in your brains wont allow it.
Your erefusal to admit it is pure bias.
I had special training in graduate school to be as objective as possible when in therapy.

 

[ding]

You cannot escape from bias.
Objective reality is a picture or video. Interpretation is bias.
Your statement I believe in objective reality is an oxymoron because you believe believeit. You try and create concepts by usuing words.
The most important way to reduce bias is to admit you have it. Then you reduce it to level where you can think clearly. Its impossible to eliminate it because the li9mbiuc system in your brains wont allow it.
Your erefusal to admit it is pure bias.
I had special training in graduate school to be as objective as possible when in therapy.

You can't discover reality unless you do.

 

[Hafar1014]

You can't discover reality unless you do.

Youre narrow concrete mind lives in very small part of reality

 

[ding]

Youre narrow concrete mind lives in very small part of reality

Discovering reality isn't narrow minded. It's literally the opposite. But yes, as far as we are concerned, reality is fixed. It can't be whatever you want it to be.

 

[Catman51]

I was taught in elementary school that matter cannot create itself.

And exactly what "matter" are you refereeing to? Religion is not matter, it is a belief system that in an of itself does not deny any other thought pattern than its own. And you were taught fantasies that may or may not be true. How do YOU know beyond a shadow of a doubt?

 

[markef]

And exactly what "matter" are you refereeing to? Religion is not matter, it is a belief system that in an of itself does not deny any other thought pattern than its own. And you were taught fantasies that may or may not be true. How do YOU know beyond a shadow of a doubt?

Atoms were created by God. They did not just show up on their own.

 

[BreezeWood]

One significant reason why many do not believe in religion, it is just too damn hard​

- the spoken heavenly religion, goal of antiquity granted a&e by their request to be equals among those free spirits residing in the everlasting taught by jesus during the 1st century events is just 6 words in length - the triumph of good vs evil - is the manner to acquire judgement from the heavens when completed for admission to the everlasting as a free spirit.

there are no heavenly desert religions - without their 10000 page bibles the will cease to exist.

 

[DGS49]

I think the problem is you are conflating your religious beliefs with your political ones.

The ironic thing being, Jesus (if he existed) was probably a bigger socialist than Commie Bernie on his worst day.

The other problem is that you conflate morality with religion. If you are only doing the right thing because you are afraid of being punished in the afterlife, that's not morality, it's fear.

Socialism can only survive in a "closed" system, where everyone joins voluntarily. This what the Disciples did after JC left. It doesn't work as a form of government. Remember Margaret Thatcher's axiom on Socialism: Eventually you run out of other peoples' money.

 

[buttercup]

Now, there are of course many reasons so I simplify for the purpose of this discussion but the difficulties of being a good human being is a significant contributor to peoples lack of faith.

It is difficult to commit oneself to being noble, principled, objective, shining light onto the world, helping the needy etc. This becomes more daunting when surrounded by scores of selfish, diabolical individuals who are not.

Another key contributor to Atheism is almost certainly the time and discipline required. This is true whether it is reading our faiths book, the pageantry of the process or going to church, a synagogue, a mosque or temple.

Further restrictive and a barrier to some is the commitments to holidays and rituals, foods etc. I do not begrudge those who find it difficult to observe this way, at the very least though, one must maintain the core tenets of principle, morality and character. Even this appears to be extremely difficult for so many, being evil is much essier for some, perhaps more natural for them (even for the "good guys")

There is a well known George Carlin comedic bit called "religion is bullsh*t". He is extremely critical of G-d, basically mocks the idea of the "invisible man in the sky". As I am an extremely comfortable person listening to opposing views, most evident in my openness to watching media from all sides even as I may disagree with some speakers 99% of the time; I watch his skit and laugh. I understand his position, there is a reason I rejected false believers of faith also and I read with a critical eye some of the stories within the bible. It is after all, written by man, not infallible.

Yes, some stories within the bible are far-fetched, one does not have to be too literal with everything in the bible in my estimation, at least I am not. I believe one should at least appreciate the message or general premise, that which G-d demands of us is more meaningful. It is difficult but that is the task, it is supposed to be difficult.

Those who warp religion for their own ends is the problem with religion today. That is what makes faith that much more difficult, especially if one is Jewish and is demanded to be stalwart models of faith, an obligation that requires significant moral leadership.

I suppose I am fortunate enough to at least be honest in the face of diverting representations. Objective enough to distinguish between true representatives of faith vs the many, MANY false chsracters we see in mass media today. This criticism of plastic people of faith is not relegated to any one religion for the record, no one faith has a monopoly on false practitioners, though I was discouraged enough to confront my own.

We as followers of G-d must acknowledge that it is not easy to be a person of faith, but consider the alternative. The "fake" people of faith should serve to remind us of just how dark the world will be if the true believers, the good men and women who act by G-ds instructions, not just talk a good game become the dominant ideology. Our species and the universe as a whole canmot survive the darkness some repeatedly emit.

Even those who do not believe in G-d can be good, moral human beings. I applaud all who are regardless of faith or no faith. Look around. See the social media clips and chatter. Are the good, honourable and righteous winning the day?

It's not about believing in religion. Did you mean to say "why many do not believe in God"?

But as for your main point...

It is difficult to commit oneself to being noble, principled, objective, shining light onto the world, helping the needy etc. This becomes more daunting when surrounded by scores of selfish, diabolical individuals who are not.

Sweet Sue and someone else already answered this, but I just want to reiterate....It's not only difficult, it's impossible to meet the only standard that actually matters, God's. That is exactly why everyone needs Jesus. That's the whole point of the Gospel! We can't do it on our own. No one can. And you can't even do it with mere belief in God. A lot of people believe in God but don't have a relationship with God and don't obey or even try to live according to God's ways. Why, because they haven't surrendered yet and been born spiritually which is absolutely necessary.

I agree with your last paragraph. Yes, of course atheists and agnostics can be "good" people, but that is according to the world's standards. Worldly standards are not the same as God's. According to God's standard, which is the only one that ultimately matters? Again, it's impossible, apart from God Himself (Jesus.)

But the good news is, anyone can receive the gift of salvation, instead of striving so hard to try to do it on your own. This is what Jesus says:

“Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

- Jesus (Matthew 11:28-30)​

Btw that verse just reminded me of a beautiful song that I love. Take a listen...

 

[pal]

I was a Christian in my youth until my late teens until I didn't get Protestant in my spirit.

I was admitted to a psychiatric ward after I was allowed to be Catholic. My prognosis was hallucinations.

I got the judgment voice and voices.

I sodding also.

 

[pal]

Christians is usual religion in Nordic countries.

 

[BreezeWood]

It's not only difficult, it's impossible to meet the only standard that actually matters, God's. That is exactly why everyone needs Jesus.

very difficult, the heavenly goal to triumph good vs evil as taught by jesus in the 1st century to acquire judgement for admission to the everlasting when accomplished.

the task is not impossible rather for most a lifetime pursuit - no one needs jesus nor any written scriptural religion non being heavenly they simply need the cumulative effort to see through the difficulties pursuant the freeing of their spirit before they perish.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Everyone should recognize the fact that the origin of mater and energy would have been impossible without a miracle from God.

Pathetic People Have a Desperate Need to Identify as the Favorites of an Imaginary Higher Power

Limited theorists omit the possibility that there was no creation at all. Everything has always existed but in different forms, based on interaction with other things and forces.