One God, as a Universal Trinity: How do YOU explain this?

[emilynghiem]

I keep running into people who do not understand that "the Trinity" does not mean three separate gods, but only One God represented on three levels, like First Person, Second Person or Third Person that are three perspectives of the same.

Has anyone here had success explaining to someone who "rejects the Trinity" that this is a universal representation and is still the same ONE GOD, not three and not unnatural or false.

I have found similar "Trinity" patterns in all other religions or laws I have looked at.
Because all people are body/mind/spirit so this is going to be reflected in every system.
I believe this is consistent with the concept that man is made in the image of God; humans have three levels of experience, and collectively this is also what God symbolizes combined.

* individual or physical level
* collective or spiritual level
* and some 'intermediary' level of psychology, conscience, laws or relations
joining the other two levels as one in harmony.

So I have no problem translating the concept of God into different people's representations, so long as we "agree on truth" in Christ Jesus or by Conscience so our concepts align.

If you have explanations that you have shared with others,
please feel free to post them there. Thank you very much!

I don't think there needs to be any conflict between these
systems, but believe they can all be reconciled to express the same universal Truth.

 

[Chuckt]

Dr. Walter Martin suggests you follow the scripture format listed below
to prove the Trinity.

a. The Father is God. Eph. 1:2

b. Jesus is God. John 1:1, 5:18, 20:28, Isa. 9:6, Heb. 1:16, 8, 10-12,
Rev. 1:8, Rev. 22:12,13

c. The Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3-4, Gen. 1:2

d. There is only One God. Deut. 6:4, John 17:3, Isa. 42-48

These four points shown in above order will help you prove the Trinity
with most people who are skeptical about this vital doctrinal issue.
(Complete Evangelism, p.164)

Some of the users just want to argue but are the same ones who can't hold a Bible study or discussion in theology or doctrine.

I suggest going to John chapter one and the same word used for God is used for "the word".

John 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus isn't God by subtraction. God took on human form as addition:

John 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God took on a body.

There is an 800 verse paper on the Trinity:

Text Commentaries: Robert Bowman, Jr. (Blue Letter Bible: Trinity)

And there are other evidences as well which no one in the forum wished to explain to me except argue.

 

[PratchettFan]

I keep running into people who do not understand that "the Trinity" does not mean three separate gods, but only One God represented on three levels, like First Person, Second Person or Third Person that are three perspectives of the same.

Has anyone here had success explaining to someone who "rejects the Trinity" that this is a universal representation and is still the same ONE GOD, not three and not unnatural or false.

I have found similar "Trinity" patterns in all other religions or laws I have looked at.
Because all people are body/mind/spirit so this is going to be reflected in every system.
I believe this is consistent with the concept that man is made in the image of God; humans have three levels of experience, and collectively this is also what God symbolizes combined.

* individual or physical level
* collective or spiritual level
* and some 'intermediary' level of psychology, conscience, laws or relations
joining the other two levels as one in harmony.

So I have no problem translating the concept of God into different people's representations, so long as we "agree on truth" in Christ Jesus or by Conscience so our concepts align.

If you have explanations that you have shared with others,
please feel free to post them there. Thank you very much!

I don't think there needs to be any conflict between these
systems, but believe they can all be reconciled to express the same universal Truth.

There is no point. Those who do not accept the trinity only do so to support their own beliefs. You say "so long as we 'agree on truth' in Christ..." and that is problem. They do not agree and are not going to.

Personally, I have no problem at all with the concept and I frankly doubt anyone else does either. It is not that complicated. I just don't believe it. That doesn't make me right or wrong, it is just my belief. I do not argue against it because I have no more claim to the truth than you. However, if it were my intent to proselytize you into seeing things my way then perhaps I would use the argument that the trinity makes no sense. But to say one does not understand it is simply a fabrication.

 

[Chuckt]

I keep running into people who do not understand that "the Trinity" does not mean three separate gods, but only One God represented on three levels, like First Person, Second Person or Third Person that are three perspectives of the same.

There is a free book on the Trinity and you don't have to own a Kindle. You can get the software for your computer for free to read this e-book. Did I mention the book is completely free?

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Trinity-Crucial-Questions-Reformation-ebook/dp/B00AW02OZW/[/ame]

 

[DriftingSand]

I keep running into people who do not understand that "the Trinity" does not mean three separate gods, but only One God represented on three levels, like First Person, Second Person or Third Person that are three perspectives of the same.

Has anyone here had success explaining to someone who "rejects the Trinity" that this is a universal representation and is still the same ONE GOD, not three and not unnatural or false.

I have found similar "Trinity" patterns in all other religions or laws I have looked at.
Because all people are body/mind/spirit so this is going to be reflected in every system.
I believe this is consistent with the concept that man is made in the image of God; humans have three levels of experience, and collectively this is also what God symbolizes combined.

* individual or physical level
* collective or spiritual level
* and some 'intermediary' level of psychology, conscience, laws or relations
joining the other two levels as one in harmony.

So I have no problem translating the concept of God into different people's representations, so long as we "agree on truth" in Christ Jesus or by Conscience so our concepts align.

If you have explanations that you have shared with others,
please feel free to post them there. Thank you very much!

I don't think there needs to be any conflict between these
systems, but believe they can all be reconciled to express the same universal Truth.

I generally keep it simple when attempting to explain the triune nature of God. First, I will provide Scripture supporting the Trinity (if the person I'm speaking with is so inclined to read them) then I will use the simple concept of a prism: A white light shines in while three primary colors exit. I will also use the concept of H2O (water). H2O is H2O but it can exist as ice, liquid, or steam (gas). God is one God but manifests Himself in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[Moonglow]

3,3,3 Gods in one...how economical...

 

[Chuckt]

There is no point. Those who do not accept the trinity only do so to support their own beliefs. You say "so long as we 'agree on truth' in Christ..." and that is problem. They do not agree and are not going to.

Most people wouldn't read a book on Christology if I gave them one. I gave one of my educated relatives a book on Christian evidences and it wasn't even donated to a library or thrift store. The answer was, "This is crazy" and it landed in the trash can without any respect to give it back to me.

How many of you can name a book on Christology? How many of you can name a book on the Trinity?

One of the things we have is the record of the Church Fathers on Jesus' Divinity. Ignatius, Mathetes, Theophilus, Justin Martyr, Athenagoras, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen and Lactantius all testified or taught that Jesus is God, Jesus is God incarnate, and some taught the Trinity.

To say that we don't believe the divinity of Jesus or the Trinity is to do what? It is to deny a very large part of Christian history which comes from the disciples of the Apostles themselves.

Then there is the record of Nicodemus coming to Jesus by night and saying:

John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

So if we talked about the miracles and things that Jesus did, there are some heavy miracles. If you or I did a few miracles today, what do you think the response of most people would be?

But Jesus' claims go farther because He speaks of His pre-existence:

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

So how do you pre-exist and become born of a virgin just to be dismissed by a whole lot of people. You have a heavy claim and there is a heavy denial by people. If people were looking for truth, don't you think the answer would be a little different? And if it the response of people was different, wouldn't they give Jesus more weight than they do? Forget about whether they believe in the Trinity or not, their response is that they don't believe and they aren't looking for truth because if they did, they would put a higher value on Jesus than they do but they don't and they won't communicate it because they don't know how to study the Bible which is number one and number two, they make no effort to study the Bible in my experience.

So let's backtrack in the scriptures a little bit to see what God says:

Deuteronomy 13:3 "you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

We have a lot of professors today and some are good and some are bad. We had an large invasion of the cults. Why is that truth isn't just handed to us? The truth is plain and clear but there are all of these diversions with everyone teaching their own way. According to Deuteronomy 13:3, God is testing you. A reason I believe is from the reason that Jesus speaks in parables (Matthew 13:5) and the reason Jesus does that is because if God made the manuscript evidence more perfect and if God made it more clear than it ever was, you could have people with no business believing getting saved from hell and going into eternity not ever changing. Why did Adam and Eve have to die instead of live forever in a fallen state? If God wanted them saved, why did they have to die right then and there? The answer is that God doesn't want people to live in a fallen state so that is why they have to die and if they don't change, believe in who God is, etc., then why should God let them live in a fallen state and give them salvation from hell? You already have a generation of Jews who saw the miracles and didn't enter into the promised land so seeing isn't enough to believe God and follow God because we're dead spiritually.

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Deuteronomy 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

And we have the prophet like unto Moses. Whether you listen to Jesus or whether you don't listen to Jesus, God will require it of you and God is testing you.

You all have to do better than this because you can give God lip service but the weight that you all give Jesus is unbelief.

Exodus 3:13 ¶ And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.

What do you say to Moses when you ask, "What is His name?" Moses says, "I AM hath sent me unto you." Do you believe the testimony about God's name?

"For in Him dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" Colossians 2:9

What does it mean to have the Godhead in Jesus bodily? It means that He was and is God so for people to claim that Jesus and the Father are not one is to deny everything in the Bible and to have no comprehension at all.

John 10:31 ¶ Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

They accused Jesus of making Himself God because Jesus did all the works that only God could do and because of that they crucified Jesus.

 

[PratchettFan]

There is no point. Those who do not accept the trinity only do so to support their own beliefs. You say "so long as we 'agree on truth' in Christ..." and that is problem. They do not agree and are not going to.

Most people wouldn't read a book on Christology if I gave them one. I gave one of my educated relatives a book on Christian evidences and it wasn't even donated to a library or thrift store. The answer was, "This is crazy" and it landed in the trash can without any respect to give it back to me.

How many of you can name a book on Christology? How many of you can name a book on the Trinity?

One of the things we have is the record of the Church Fathers on Jesus' Divinity. Ignatius, Mathetes, Theophilus, Justin Martyr, Athenagoras, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen and Lactantius all testified or taught that Jesus is God, Jesus is God incarnate, and some taught the Trinity.

To say that we don't believe the divinity of Jesus or the Trinity is to do what? It is to deny a very large part of Christian history which comes from the disciples of the Apostles themselves.

Then there is the record of Nicodemus coming to Jesus by night and saying:

John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

So if we talked about the miracles and things that Jesus did, there are some heavy miracles. If you or I did a few miracles today, what do you think the response of most people would be?

But Jesus' claims go farther because He speaks of His pre-existence:

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

So how do you pre-exist and become born of a virgin just to be dismissed by a whole lot of people. You have a heavy claim and there is a heavy denial by people. If people were looking for truth, don't you think the answer would be a little different? And if it the response of people was different, wouldn't they give Jesus more weight than they do? Forget about whether they believe in the Trinity or not, their response is that they don't believe and they aren't looking for truth because if they did, they would put a higher value on Jesus than they do but they don't and they won't communicate it because they don't know how to study the Bible which is number one and number two, they make no effort to study the Bible in my experience.

So let's backtrack in the scriptures a little bit to see what God says:

Deuteronomy 13:3 "you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

We have a lot of professors today and some are good and some are bad. We had an large invasion of the cults. Why is that truth isn't just handed to us? The truth is plain and clear but there are all of these diversions with everyone teaching their own way. According to Deuteronomy 13:3, God is testing you. A reason I believe is from the reason that Jesus speaks in parables (Matthew 13:5) and the reason Jesus does that is because if God made the manuscript evidence more perfect and if God made it more clear than it ever was, you could have people with no business believing getting saved from hell and going into eternity not ever changing. Why did Adam and Eve have to die instead of live forever in a fallen state? If God wanted them saved, why did they have to die right then and there? The answer is that God doesn't want people to live in a fallen state so that is why they have to die and if they don't change, believe in who God is, etc., then why should God let them live in a fallen state and give them salvation from hell? You already have a generation of Jews who saw the miracles and didn't enter into the promised land so seeing isn't enough to believe God and follow God because we're dead spiritually.

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Deuteronomy 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

And we have the prophet like unto Moses. Whether you listen to Jesus or whether you don't listen to Jesus, God will require it of you and God is testing you.

You all have to do better than this because you can give God lip service but the weight that you all give Jesus is unbelief.

Exodus 3:13 ¶ And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.

What do you say to Moses when you ask, "What is His name?" Moses says, "I AM hath sent me unto you." Do you believe the testimony about God's name?

"For in Him dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" Colossians 2:9

What does it mean to have the Godhead in Jesus bodily? It means that He was and is God so for people to claim that Jesus and the Father are not one is to deny everything in the Bible and to have no comprehension at all.

John 10:31 ¶ Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

They accused Jesus of making Himself God because Jesus did all the works that only God could do and because of that they crucified Jesus.

Did he ask you for the book? Because if you just decided to give it to him to show him the errors of his ways, what respect were you showing him?

 

[Chuckt]

Did he ask you for the book? Because if you just decided to give it to him to show him the errors of his ways, what respect were you showing him?

Yes. And asked me to ship it on top of that.

People who have made more money than me have asked for all kinds of resources and expect to get it for free. The Bible isn't cheap. People risked their lives to bring you the truth.

 

[hobelim]

I keep running into people who do not understand that "the Trinity" does not mean three separate gods, but only One God represented on three levels, like First Person, Second Person or Third Person that are three perspectives of the same.

Has anyone here had success explaining to someone who "rejects the Trinity" that this is a universal representation and is still the same ONE GOD, not three and not unnatural or false.

emily, Aside from the fact that one God who has no equal precludes the existence of three distinct and separate coequal beings in one God, if the Father is God and if God is spirit and if Jesus was a human being and was not the Father then he cannot be God.


The trinity is an irrational pagan belief, a false god that does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence.


"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father; my God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his Father is our Father and his God is our God Jesus is saying in his own words that our relationship to God is exactly the same as his relationship to God and effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

 

[PratchettFan]

Did he ask you for the book? Because if you just decided to give it to him to show him the errors of his ways, what respect were you showing him?

Yes. And asked me to ship it on top of that.

People who have made more money than me have asked for all kinds of resources and expect to get it for free. The Bible isn't cheap. People risked their lives to bring you the truth.

Then I wouldn't send him anything else because that was just rude.

 

[Chuckt]

Did he ask you for the book? Because if you just decided to give it to him to show him the errors of his ways, what respect were you showing him?

Yes. And asked me to ship it on top of that.

People who have made more money than me have asked for all kinds of resources and expect to get it for free. The Bible isn't cheap. People risked their lives to bring you the truth.

Then I wouldn't send him anything else because that was just rude.

This is people's sinful nature...

The truth is that unless you are the library imposing fines, a lot of people want things with no intention on reading or they may procrastinate and hold something forever. Unless someone is a good friend of yours, don't lend out anything because it doesn't come back and this is the behavior of a lot of people I have known over the years.

 

[Chuckt]

I keep running into people who do not understand that "the Trinity" does not mean three separate gods, but only One God represented on three levels, like First Person, Second Person or Third Person that are three perspectives of the same.

Has anyone here had success explaining to someone who "rejects the Trinity" that this is a universal representation and is still the same ONE GOD, not three and not unnatural or false.

emily, Aside from the fact that one God who has no equal precludes the existence of three distinct and separate coequal beings in one God, if the Father is God and if God is spirit and if Jesus was a human being and was not the Father then he cannot be God.


The trinity is an irrational pagan belief, a false god that does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence.


"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father; my God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his Father is our Father and his God is our God Jesus is saying in his own words that our relationship to God is exactly the same as his relationship to God and effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

Jesus can say John 20:17 because there are separate persons in the Trinity while being One God and because He took on an additional nature so Jesus had His own spirit.

24. And the Lord (YHVH) caused to rain down upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire, from the Lord (YHVH), from heaven.

Genesis - Chapter 19 (Parshah Vayeira) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

The Bible shows at least two people in the Trinity right in Genesis chapter 19 which you and others have failed to explain.

 

[Chuckt]

"The Colossian heresy, in its attack upon the absolute deity of our Lord, states

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Colossian heresy, in its attack upon the absolute deity of our Lord, states that the divine essence of deity is scattered among the angelic emanations from deity, and that our Lord possessed only a part of it. Paul answers, in the words of the A.V.,'For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell' (1:19), and 'For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily' (2:9). The word 'dwelleth' is katoikeo, made up of oikeo, 'to live in a home, to be at home,' and kata, whose root meaning is 'down' and speaks or permanence. The expanded translation reads, '...because in Him [God] was well pleased that all the fullness be permanently at home' (1:19), and '...because in Him there is continuously and permanently at home all the fullness of absolute deity in bodily fashion' (2:9)"
-p. ix, Teacher Emeritus of New Testament Greek, The Moody Bible Institute

"And He himself antedates all things, and all things in Him cohere. And He himself is the Head of His Body, the Church. He is the originator [i.e., the creator], the firstborn out from among the dead, in order that He might become in all things himself the One who is pre-eminent, because in Him [God] was well pleased that all the fullness be permanently at home. And [God was well pleased] through His agency to reconcile all things to himself, having concluded peace through the blood of His Cross, through Him, whether the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens."-The New Testament (An Expanded Translation) by Kenneth S. Wuest, Colossians 1:17-20, p.470

“...because in Him there is continuously and permanently at home all the fullness of absolute deity in bodily fashion.”, Ibid., Colossions 2:9, p. 471

Antedate, 1. to put a date on that is earlier than the actual date. -Webster's New World Dictionary
Pre-Eminent, 1. eminent (dominant) above others - Ibid.

-Dr. Kenneth Weust

 

[Chuckt]

Gen 1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

One thing to remember about the Trinity is that God in Genesis 1:1 is 'elohiym and it is PLURAL and not singular so when we think of John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." then we can start to understand the three persons in the one God.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-b...&version=KJV#1

Hebrew Lexicon :: H430 (KJV)

Zec 2:10 ¶ Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.

Zec 2:11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

Who is speaking here? How can the Lord send the Lord? The Lord is speaking in Zechariah 2:10 and now in Zech 2:11 it says, "the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee." We know there is Father, Son and Holy Spirit but it baffles those Hebrew scholars that aren't Christians.

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Matthew 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David.

Matthew 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Matthew 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

The question to ask everybody is,"What do you think of Jesus Christ?" How can He be deity and not part of God because God will have no other gods before Him?

 

[Taz]

Did he ask you for the book? Because if you just decided to give it to him to show him the errors of his ways, what respect were you showing him?

Yes. And asked me to ship it on top of that.

People who have made more money than me have asked for all kinds of resources and expect to get it for free. The Bible isn't cheap. People risked their lives to bring you the truth.

The bible isn't free, god needs the dough, the heating bill in Hell is killing him!

 

[Chuckt]

Did he ask you for the book? Because if you just decided to give it to him to show him the errors of his ways, what respect were you showing him?

Yes. And asked me to ship it on top of that.

People who have made more money than me have asked for all kinds of resources and expect to get it for free. The Bible isn't cheap. People risked their lives to bring you the truth.

The bible isn't free, god needs the dough, the heating bill in Hell is killing him!

Neither I nor God need your money. Please keep it.

 

[hobelim]

I keep running into people who do not understand that "the Trinity" does not mean three separate gods, but only One God represented on three levels, like First Person, Second Person or Third Person that are three perspectives of the same.

Has anyone here had success explaining to someone who "rejects the Trinity" that this is a universal representation and is still the same ONE GOD, not three and not unnatural or false.

emily, Aside from the fact that one God who has no equal precludes the existence of three distinct and separate coequal beings in one God, if the Father is God and if God is spirit and if Jesus was a human being and was not the Father then he cannot be God.


The trinity is an irrational pagan belief, a false god that does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence.


"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father; my God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his Father is our Father and his God is our God Jesus is saying in his own words that our relationship to God is exactly the same as his relationship to God and effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

Jesus can say John 20:17 because there are separate persons in the Trinity while being One God and because He took on an additional nature so Jesus had His own spirit.

24. And the Lord (YHVH) caused to rain down upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire, from the Lord (YHVH), from heaven.

Genesis - Chapter 19 (Parshah Vayeira) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

The Bible shows at least two people in the Trinity right in Genesis chapter 19 which you and others have failed to explain.

Genesis chapter 19 has nothing whatever to do with any trinity. The chapter begins by specifically identifying the two men as angels.

Clearly you too must have been struck by blindness and can't find the hidden door they pulled Lot through.

 

[Chuckt]

emily, Aside from the fact that one God who has no equal precludes the existence of three distinct and separate coequal beings in one God, if the Father is God and if God is spirit and if Jesus was a human being and was not the Father then he cannot be God.


The trinity is an irrational pagan belief, a false god that does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence.


"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father; my God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his Father is our Father and his God is our God Jesus is saying in his own words that our relationship to God is exactly the same as his relationship to God and effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

Jesus can say John 20:17 because there are separate persons in the Trinity while being One God and because He took on an additional nature so Jesus had His own spirit.

24. And the Lord (YHVH) caused to rain down upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire, from the Lord (YHVH), from heaven.

Genesis - Chapter 19 (Parshah Vayeira) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

The Bible shows at least two people in the Trinity right in Genesis chapter 19 which you and others have failed to explain.

Genesis chapter 19 has nothing whatever to do with any trinity. The chapter begins by specifically identifying the two men as angels.

Clearly you too must have been struck by blindness and can't find the hidden door they pulled Lot through.

Angels aren't called YHVH.

 

[hobelim]

Jesus can say John 20:17 because there are separate persons in the Trinity while being One God and because He took on an additional nature so Jesus had His own spirit.

24. And the Lord (YHVH) caused to rain down upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire, from the Lord (YHVH), from heaven.

Genesis - Chapter 19 (Parshah Vayeira) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

The Bible shows at least two people in the Trinity right in Genesis chapter 19 which you and others have failed to explain.

Genesis chapter 19 has nothing whatever to do with any trinity. The chapter begins by specifically identifying the two men as angels.

Clearly you too must have been struck by blindness and can't find the hidden door they pulled Lot through.

Angels aren't called YHVH.

Oh I see, because "The Lord" is mentioned twice in the sentence where it says the fire and brimstone caused by The Lord came from The Lord from Heaven, you think there are two Gods?


Thanks for clearing that up...

As I said, Clearly you too must have been struck by blindness ..............