On the GOP

[Oddball]

Some things should not be a "for profit" industry. Our national defense is one, education is another and health care should also be on that list.

ORLY?

If our national defense is so "non profit", how is it that Dianne Frankenstein was so interested in directing all those no-bid military contracts to her husband's company?

If it's so "non profit" how does it happen that the military gets saddled with money pit weapons systems that it doesn't even want, like the JSF and Osprey?

Please...Enlighten us.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Lmao. Al Gore got his backside handed to him for trying to gerrymander the State of Florida during the election.

And Kathleen Harris was given a seat in congress for suppressing the vote of black voters and cutting off the vote in Democratic counties.

oh for god sakes....

Wrong again. God had nothing to do with it, Money did, money supplied by those pleased with her partisan efforts to elect George W. Bush.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Some things should not be a "for profit" industry. Our national defense is one, education is another and health care should also be on that list.

ORLY?

If our national defense is so "non profit", how is it that Dianne Frankenstein was so interested in directing all those no-bid military contracts to her husband's company?

If it's so "non profit" how does it happen that the military gets saddled with money pit weapons systems that it doesn't even want, like the JSF and Osprey?

Please...Enlighten us.

No. You enlighten us. Provide evidence to prove the allegation you've made. Do it or provide probative evidence that you are totally full of shit by your silence.

 

[Oddball]

Oh, great Caesar's ghost!....Florida 2000 again!

 

[Oddball]

Some things should not be a "for profit" industry. Our national defense is one, education is another and health care should also be on that list.

ORLY?

If our national defense is so "non profit", how is it that Dianne Frankenstein was so interested in directing all those no-bid military contracts to her husband's company?

If it's so "non profit" how does it happen that the military gets saddled with money pit weapons systems that it doesn't even want, like the JSF and Osprey?

Please...Enlighten us.

No. You enlighten us. Provide evidence to prove the allegation you've made. Do it or provide probative evidence that you are totally full of shit.

She was removed from the Senate Armed Services committee for what she did, numbnutz....Were she a republican, she would have been run out of the District of Criminals altogether.

That you have your head so buried so far up your ass as to not know what your own crooked goddamn Senators have been doing is your problem, Danny Vermin.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Isn't waiting for treatment preferable to being denied all treatment because you can't afford it?

not if you have something that needs to be taken care of now.....not 5 months from now...

It is not the government that makes the decision as to the urgency of treatment. The medical professionals make that diagnosis.

and if you still get put on a 5 month list.....what then?.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

We manage to have a defense and education system that protects or educates all people and still Generals and teachers get paid. Imagine that?

nice Bakersfield Two-Step Wytch.... was the question to hard?.....should i rephrase it?....please advise.......... in Anaheim.....

The answer was given. Despite the Defense of our Nation applying to all citizens equally, the defense industry still is...and people still get paid. Do we pay cops, teachers and firefighters? Do they still teach and protect ALL people regardless of their individual ability to pay for those services?

so Doctors should get paid by the taxpayers in the same pay bracket as the people you mention?....these people are what....30 thousand to what 75 thousand?.....yea....i can see Doctors going for that.....ok i hear ya....

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

It costs money to provide medical care.

So either medical care is a consumer item or it's a public service.

Most of the world treats it as a public service. As a result, they pay less for it, they live longer, less of their babies die in infancy and they aren't wiped out by a medical crisis.

Unlike this country, where 62% of bankruptcies are caused by medical issues.

With respect to "paying less" for health care, you get what you pay for.

Back in 2008, the Labour Government achieved its spectacular promise that most patients would be treated within 18 weeks in the English NHS.

So the original targets were based on those retrospective waiting times, mainly that 90% of patients admitted for treatment must have waited less than 18 weeks since referral. It sounds sensible, but it has a huge loophole: patients only count against the target when you admit them, but don't if you keep them waiting.

So hospitals could avoid the penalties by ensuring that, every time they admitted a long-waiter, they also admitted nine short-waiters out of turn. One well-regarded hospital achieved the target month after month like this, despite having a massive backlog of long-waiting patients (with many waiting over a year).

Ending perverse penalties on NHS waiting times | Healthcare Professionals Network | Guardian Professional

How long do you think you should wait for treatment under a government universal health care plan?

Isn't waiting for treatment preferable to being denied all treatment because you can't afford it?

Ever hear of an ambulance driver that turned around, after deciding it best to leave the individual on the side of the road in critical condition, because they simply had no insurance? Can you honestly say that an ER doctor is going to drop everything and take the time to first interrogate the patient that's rushed into emergency surgery, to see which insurance policy they happen to carry? Then perhaps the surgeon can best deduce whether any anesthetic or IVs will be used in the procedure... that is of course, IF that patent happens to be at all responsive.


Now let's look at your preferred universal plan, when the government is looking for ways to cut Federal expenditures to reduce the overall burden of cost. Will an elderly man needing rather aggressive and extensive cancer options, be granted all the "treatment" he requires at his age? What about a dying patient that is in need of some new, highly expensive, exploratory treatment that may POSSIBLY lead to an eventual cure? Can you tell me with regard to treatment, that cost is "no option" (spare no expense), everyone will get whatever treatment they may require with a government health care system? Even so, let's put all that expense aside. Exactly how is waiting until your medical condition worsens beyond what your scheduled appointed treatment can handle, then being told that NOW there is nothing the doctor can do, a better option when choosing a government health care system?

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Isn't waiting for treatment preferable to being denied all treatment because you can't afford it?

not if you have something that needs to be taken care of now.....not 5 months from now...

It is not the government that makes the decision as to the urgency of treatment. The medical professionals make that diagnosis.

The extended wait times which the patients must endure is not the result of the doctors deciding upon the urgency of the diagnosis, rather it's the direct result of the public health care "system" which created the problem. Notice how the Canadians are willing to pay "out-of-pocket", to receive faster quality care through the private health insurance option.

in the past five years private health plans have grown at an average rate of 12% annually, testifying to the growing need for supplementary health insurance protection when the public system falls short.

http://www.cimca.ca/media/EmployeeBenefitNews-Feb07.pdf

 

[Seawytch]

nice Bakersfield Two-Step Wytch.... was the question to hard?.....should i rephrase it?....please advise.......... in Anaheim.....

The answer was given. Despite the Defense of our Nation applying to all citizens equally, the defense industry still is...and people still get paid. Do we pay cops, teachers and firefighters? Do they still teach and protect ALL people regardless of their individual ability to pay for those services?

so Doctors should get paid by the taxpayers in the same pay bracket as the people you mention?....these people are what....30 thousand to what 75 thousand?.....yea....i can see Doctors going for that.....ok i hear ya....

Is that what doctors are paid in other countries with a single payer healthcare system? No, I didn't think so.

Basic education is afforded all Americans regardless of social status. Same goes for defense and other protective services, yes? I believe healthcare is one of the "basic services" all Americans should have equal access to regardless of their social status.

If you are wealthy or well off can you pay for a better education? Can you pay for additional protection? Works the same in my perfect healthcare world.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And Kathleen Harris was given a seat in congress for suppressing the vote of black voters and cutting off the vote in Democratic counties.

Who was Kathleen Harris? Still sore over a 14 year old election are you?

If you don't know you have no business posting on a political message board.

BTW, I not sore over the election. A country like ours gets the government it deserves. Over 4,500 of our troops killed and thousands more wounded based on the election in 2000, I hope the voters learned from that fiasco.

LOL. I have plenty business posting here, and of which is not up to you to decide. I was all of 13 years old when that happened. You have to remember, you are debating a 25 year old.

But unlike you I can do my research:

First of all you got her name wrong. Her name was Katherine Harris. Former Secretary of State in Florida, and House Representative.

Secondly, she certified the results. She didn't cut off any voting. The Bush v. Gore ruling ended the voting. It allowed her previous certification of the results to stand. Don't spin the facts.

There was also no suppression of black votes in democratic counties, the cause of (as per the ruling) the problem was variable counting methods. Seven of the justices agreed that there was an Equal Protection Clause violation in using different standards of counting in different counties. Remember, Bush argued for this and won.

Bush argued that recounts in Florida violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, because there was no statewide standard that each county board could use to determine whether a given ballot was a legal vote. Each county used its own standard to manually recount each vote, and Bush argued that some counties would have more lax standards than other counties. Therefore, two voters could have marked their ballot in an identical manner, but one voter's ballot in one county would be counted while the other voter's ballot in a different county would be rejected, due to the varying standards used for manual recounts.[25]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore

Look. I don't know who you think you are, but you aren't going to race bait people here tonight.

 

[Oddball]

Who was Kathleen Harris? Still sore over a 14 year old election are you?

If you don't know you have no business posting on a political message board.

BTW, I not sore over the election. A country like ours gets the government it deserves. Over 4,500 of our troops killed and thousands more wounded based on the election in 2000, I hope the voters learned from that fiasco.

LOL. I have plenty business posting here, and of which is not up to you to decide. I was all of 13 years old when that happened. You have to remember, you are debating a 25 year old.

But unlike you I can do my research...

Remember....That's the same butthead who didn't know that his own Senator got caught red-handed steering no-bid military contracts to her husband's arms company.

I'll lay big odds that he voted for the dried up old thief in the last election, too.

 

[dblack]

The answer was given. Despite the Defense of our Nation applying to all citizens equally, the defense industry still is...and people still get paid. Do we pay cops, teachers and firefighters? Do they still teach and protect ALL people regardless of their individual ability to pay for those services?

so Doctors should get paid by the taxpayers in the same pay bracket as the people you mention?....these people are what....30 thousand to what 75 thousand?.....yea....i can see Doctors going for that.....ok i hear ya....

Is that what doctors are paid in other countries with a single payer healthcare system? No, I didn't think so.

Basic education is afforded all Americans regardless of social status. Same goes for defense and other protective services, yes? I believe healthcare is one of the "basic services" all Americans should have equal access to regardless of their social status.

If you are wealthy or well off can you pay for a better education? Can you pay for additional protection? Works the same in my perfect healthcare world.

Then do it the way we've done with education - locally controlled and funded. Not as a federal bailout to the insurance industry.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If you don't know you have no business posting on a political message board.

BTW, I not sore over the election. A country like ours gets the government it deserves. Over 4,500 of our troops killed and thousands more wounded based on the election in 2000, I hope the voters learned from that fiasco.

LOL. I have plenty business posting here, and of which is not up to you to decide. I was all of 13 years old when that happened. You have to remember, you are debating a 25 year old.

But unlike you I can do my research...

Remember....That's the same butthead who didn't know that hisown Senator got caught red-handed steering no-bid military contracts to her husband's arms company.

I'll lay big odds that he voted for the dried up old thief in the last election, too.

Well, it's California, what do you expect?

 

[Vandalshandle]

In june, 1966, just before Medicare went into effect, I started my career in the health insurance business. Everyone on the Right was crying about how health care will be rationed, and everyone would have to wait in long lines to be treated, and old people wouild die needlessly.

I am now on Medicare, and retired. I fell one night last month, and was seen at the urgent care center the next mormning at 8 AM. . Three days later, I was in an orthos' doctor's office, who got me a referral to an MRI 4 days later. Three days after that, I was in the ortho's doctor's office again, where I was diagnosed as having a torn rotator cuff. Nine days after that, I had surgery by the same ortho. I then had 2 follow up visits, before he took the stitches out. Total treatment time from the accident to the final visit was a total of 24 days. My total copays to all providers combined came to $405.

So, I have now been waiting since 1966 for this terrible medical disaster of rationed health care to hit me as a person insured under Medicare. Now, of course, I am hearing the same arguments, word for word, about what is going to happen under ACA, or if we were to adopt universal health care.

I guess that I am not too concerned about this "sky is falling" rhetoric, since it would appear that this disater is taking longer to develop than originally predicted, so I will be long gone before it acrtually happens.

Oh, and BTW. In America, whenever there is an unfilled need in an area, people flock to that profession, in order to fill that need. That is why my daugher is a nurse. She knows that she will always have a career and a job. Applications to medical schools are booming to fill this need. It is the American way.

 

[TemplarKormac]

In june, 1966, just before Medicare went into effect, I started my career in the health insurance business. Everyone on the Right was crying about how health care will be rationed, and everyone would have to wait in long lines to be treated, and old people wouild die needlessly.

I am now on Medicare, and retired. I fell one night last month, and was seen at the urgent care center the next mormning at 8 AM. . Three days later, I was in an orthos' doctor's office, who got me a referral to an MRI 4 days later. Three days after that, I was in the ortho's doctor's office again, where I was diagnosed as having a torn rotator cuff. Nine days after that, I had surgery by the same ortho. I then had 2 follow up visits, before he took the stitches out. Total treatment time from the accident to the final visit was a total of 24 days. My total copays to all providers combined came to $405.

So, I have now been waiting since 1966 for this terrible medical disaster of rationed health care to hit me as a person insured under Medicare. Now, of course, I am hearing the same arguments, word for word, about what is going to happen under ADA, or if we were to adopt universal health care.

I guess that I am not too concerned about this "sky is falling" rhetoric, since it would appear that this disater is taking longer to develop than originally predicted, so I will be long gone before it acrtually happens.

Oh, and BTW. In America, whenever there is an unfilled need in an area, people flock to that profession, in order to fill that need. That is why my daugher is a nurse. She knows that she will always have a career and a job. Applications to medical schools are booming to fill this need. It is the ASmerican way.

And guess what? Medicare worked. Obamacare?


...not so much.

 

[Oddball]

In june, 1966, just before Medicare went into effect, I started my career in the health insurance business. Everyone on the Right was crying about how health care will be rationed, and everyone would have to wait in long lines to be treated, and old people wouild die needlessly.

Hasn't been rationed....Yet.

Meanwhile, all they've done is pissed away the entirety of the OASI "trust fund", raised taxes and slashed reimbursements to keep it afloat....And even then it's bankrupt.

And that's supposed to be evidence of success.

 

[Vandalshandle]

"And guess what? Medicare worked. Obamacare?


...not so much. "

Maybe that is because it has not yet been implemented?

 

[TemplarKormac]

"And guess what? Medicare worked. Obamacare?


...not so much. "

Maybe that is because it has not yet been implemented?

Delayed. Not implemented. Shouldn't that tell you how it's going to work when it's put in place?

Even unions hate it. Time to get back with the program, Vandal.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The answer was given. Despite the Defense of our Nation applying to all citizens equally, the defense industry still is...and people still get paid. Do we pay cops, teachers and firefighters? Do they still teach and protect ALL people regardless of their individual ability to pay for those services?

so Doctors should get paid by the taxpayers in the same pay bracket as the people you mention?....these people are what....30 thousand to what 75 thousand?.....yea....i can see Doctors going for that.....ok i hear ya....

Is that what doctors are paid in other countries with a single payer healthcare system? No, I didn't think so.

Basic education is afforded all Americans regardless of social status. Same goes for defense and other protective services, yes? I believe healthcare is one of the "basic services" all Americans should have equal access to regardless of their social status.

If you are wealthy or well off can you pay for a better education? Can you pay for additional protection? Works the same in my perfect healthcare world.

most Doctors in Europe make half as much .....do you think a specialist averaging 500 thou a year is going to take a 50% pay cut?.....no i didnt think so....