On the GOP

[TemplarKormac]

It's cute that people think voting for one party or the other will change anything.

Seriously? I may not make you think twice about you comment, but consider, Odd-dude liked it (that should given anyone pause) and this:

Consider the 2000 general election and the damage done by the neo cons who brought us the Iraq war? Consider the vote which gave the Democrats the H. of Rep. and the ability to pass health care reform; or the full court press by the health care industry which put the GOP back in power at the H. of Rep. in 2010.

Voting matters; there is a great difference between the RP and the DP as well as the LP.

Lmao. Al Gore got his backside handed to him for trying to gerrymander the State of Florida during the election.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It costs money to provide medical care.

So either medical care is a consumer item or it's a public service.

Most of the world treats it as a public service. As a result, they pay less for it, they live longer, less of their babies die in infancy and they aren't wiped out by a medical crisis.

Unlike this country, where 62% of bankruptcies are caused by medical issues.

If it costs money it cannot be a public service.

What, you think your brain drugs are free, guy?

Police cost money. Fire Departments cost money. Streets cost money.

But we don't charge people for them on by use basis. We charge everyone and make them available for those who need them.

Does the government provide it free to everyone? Since the answer to that is no, it is not a public service.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What, you think your brain drugs are free, guy?

Police cost money. Fire Departments cost money. Streets cost money.

But we don't charge people for them on by use basis. We charge everyone and make them available for those who need them.

free medical care is not a constitutional right.

Never said it was.

Still a pretty good idea, though. Which is why most of the Industrialized world does it that way.

What we do is mandate hospitals treat everyone without making sure they get paid. Then they charge the paying customers more.

Which is why we spend more than any country in the world and get the worst results.

But the important thing is that Ed Hanaway of Cigna got a 80 Million dollar severence package, not that Nataline Sarkisyan got her Liver Transplant, because she totally didn't.

Most of the industrialized world actually expects people to pay for medical care when they use it. The portions that don't always end up with crappy care that no one wants.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No you can't. If you don't have insurance, there will be a point you can't pay for it. That's a fact. You can't make payments on a $500,000 medical bill. You would do what hundreds of thousands have done before you, declare bankruptcy.

Medical Bankruptcy is no Myth

When I went into the hospital two years ago they knocked $25,000 off the top because I self paid. That was before I paid a cent, because they save a ton of money not having to fill out the detailed forms required by federal bureaucracy.

Bullshit. It's because you're not part of the health care/insurance company cartel and they realize that's all they're going to get from you.

That is one possible explanation, another is that they charge way to much for services, and can afford to knock quite a bit off the top. Keep in mind I was told this the day I was admitted, when they thought my stay would be an overnight one to manage the pain until I actually passed the stone. If I had got out then I would have ended up owing a grand total of $0.00 because they only charged me $15,000 a day.

 

[Trajan]

It seems the GOP has many supporters unable to respond to the points stated below without defaulting to profanity, personal attacks and ridiculousness. Few admit to being Republicans - one did but when asked why s/he cut and ran - but all seem to hate the millions of Americans registered as Democrats.

For the record I don't hate Republicans, I don't hate anyone not even the disgusting, foolish, willfully ignorant, hateful and profane; the vast majority those who use pejoratives against all who post opinions which conflict with their own. This strongly suggests their beliefs are not their own, considered after actually thinking about issues. Most I believe have been spoon fed an ideology by demagogues and charlatans on TV, Radio and on the INTERNET and simply parrot them as their own.

For those who believe pointing out my opinion that those I characterize as "disgusting, foolish, willfully ignorant, hateful and profane" suggest I have engaged in hypocrisy there is no hope for them. A simple reading of the responses to the original post is sufficient evidence of the factual basis of my comment.

Of course that blatant racism, covert and overt, which didn't exist before President Obama was nominated is not something adopted by listening to voices on the Right Wing, it is something within the soul of too many Americans - black and white, but not exclusively so, for bigotry exists in all facets of our society most notably in misogyny, and prejudices against gays, lesbians and immigrants.

I stand by this OP:

On the GOP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Republican Party (RP) is dying by its own hand. To be viable it needs to weed out extremists and understand a national party needs to represent all United States Citizens. At one time the party leaders pretended to have a big tent open to everyone; once that was proved ridiculous they dropped the tag-line and even the pretext of cultural pluralism.

There is no doubt that the RP is the party of Big Business and holds blue collar workers in disdain. Their policies exploit the low income worker, both non citizen immigrants and American citizens, and deceive the middle class with platitudes, false pathos and promises never fulfilled. They obfuscate issues with emotion laden propaganda and misuse words - making them pejoratives - to defame anyone who represents a threat to their one goal: Power.

Essentially the RP of today is built on a foundation of mendacity and is little different than the French Aristocracy before 1789. While the phrase, "let them eat cake" is apocryphal it exists today in the policies of the extreme members in GOP leadership, especially on the state level. Attacks on Unionism, demands that the poor pay more in taxes and the 'job creators' pay less, eliminating the minimum wage law, acting as if those in the legislatures know better then do doctors on the needs of health for women and children, building barriers to voting and that anyone who attempts to curtail the abuse of health insurers is a Communist, Socialist or Statist.

Unless the RP wakes up it will find itself a footnote in history.

lets compare you're out of the gate passive-aggressive, ' I don't hate you, even if you're a ------------- ' dude....what a riot.

Oh, and the usual race card nonsense ( don't leave home without it )

Its what I posted for you a day and a half ago in this thread, which you never commented on;

here is the issue imho- you think the Democratic party owns some moral or ethical high-ground, some how your views are superior in those contexts to the gop's.....

They don't, and neither does the gop. I get that, I don't think you or your party do.



and finally, and this is key- as to say prop 8 and doma and those kind of cultural issues- I think, perhaps that you and I KNOW many here and those opposed to gop/con views on this, don't think there is a argument or an argument can be made in earnest or holds any value, as in a closely held personal values/beliefs that bares some thought and consideration, everything the gop or cons say comes from dark evil place and is not even worthy of genuine, serious consideration.....


Therefore, they're all extremists, haters, they can be discarded as "crazies" and that kills the debate right then and also, the media drives this with a slant thats off the charts, even framing a debate, its almost always framed as the good ( you/dems) vs.the evil ( basically, anyone else) , that is dishonest and intellectually vacuous, you may not like the other sides views but they are just as important and meaningful and require thoughtful consideration, not visceral angst and close mindedness ( and yes the gop does own some of this too) .......and that, really, is the issue.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It's cute that people think voting for one party or the other will change anything.

Seriously? I may not make you think twice about you comment, but consider, Odd-dude liked it (that should given anyone pause) and this:

Consider the 2000 general election and the damage done by the neo cons who brought us the Iraq war? Consider the vote which gave the Democrats the H. of Rep. and the ability to pass health care reform; or the full court press by the health care industry which put the GOP back in power at the H. of Rep. in 2010.

Voting matters; there is a great difference between the RP and the DP as well as the LP.

Lmao. Al Gore got his backside handed to him for trying to gerrymander the State of Florida during the election.

And Kathleen Harris was given a seat in congress for suppressing the vote of black voters and cutting off the vote in Democratic counties.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Seriously? I may not make you think twice about you comment, but consider, Odd-dude liked it (that should given anyone pause) and this:

Consider the 2000 general election and the damage done by the neo cons who brought us the Iraq war? Consider the vote which gave the Democrats the H. of Rep. and the ability to pass health care reform; or the full court press by the health care industry which put the GOP back in power at the H. of Rep. in 2010.

Voting matters; there is a great difference between the RP and the DP as well as the LP.

Lmao. Al Gore got his backside handed to him for trying to gerrymander the State of Florida during the election.

And Kathleen Harris was given a seat in congress for suppressing the vote of black voters and cutting off the vote in Democratic counties.

Who was Kathleen Harris? Still sore over a 14 year old election are you?

 

[Wry Catcher]

It seems the GOP has many supporters unable to respond to the points stated below without defaulting to profanity, personal attacks and ridiculousness. Few admit to being Republicans - one did but when asked why s/he cut and ran - but all seem to hate the millions of Americans registered as Democrats.

For the record I don't hate Republicans, I don't hate anyone not even the disgusting, foolish, willfully ignorant, hateful and profane; the vast majority those who use pejoratives against all who post opinions which conflict with their own. This strongly suggests their beliefs are not their own, considered after actually thinking about issues. Most I believe have been spoon fed an ideology by demagogues and charlatans on TV, Radio and on the INTERNET and simply parrot them as their own.

For those who believe pointing out my opinion that those I characterize as "disgusting, foolish, willfully ignorant, hateful and profane" suggest I have engaged in hypocrisy there is no hope for them. A simple reading of the responses to the original post is sufficient evidence of the factual basis of my comment.

Of course that blatant racism, covert and overt, which didn't exist before President Obama was nominated is not something adopted by listening to voices on the Right Wing, it is something within the soul of too many Americans - black and white, but not exclusively so, for bigotry exists in all facets of our society most notably in misogyny, and prejudices against gays, lesbians and immigrants.

I stand by this OP:

On the GOP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Republican Party (RP) is dying by its own hand. To be viable it needs to weed out extremists and understand a national party needs to represent all United States Citizens. At one time the party leaders pretended to have a big tent open to everyone; once that was proved ridiculous they dropped the tag-line and even the pretext of cultural pluralism.

There is no doubt that the RP is the party of Big Business and holds blue collar workers in disdain. Their policies exploit the low income worker, both non citizen immigrants and American citizens, and deceive the middle class with platitudes, false pathos and promises never fulfilled. They obfuscate issues with emotion laden propaganda and misuse words - making them pejoratives - to defame anyone who represents a threat to their one goal: Power.

Essentially the RP of today is built on a foundation of mendacity and is little different than the French Aristocracy before 1789. While the phrase, "let them eat cake" is apocryphal it exists today in the policies of the extreme members in GOP leadership, especially on the state level. Attacks on Unionism, demands that the poor pay more in taxes and the 'job creators' pay less, eliminating the minimum wage law, acting as if those in the legislatures know better then do doctors on the needs of health for women and children, building barriers to voting and that anyone who attempts to curtail the abuse of health insurers is a Communist, Socialist or Statist.

Unless the RP wakes up it will find itself a footnote in history.

lets compare you're out of the gate passive-aggressive, ' I don't hate you, even if you're a ------------- ' dude....what a riot.

Oh, and the usual race card nonsense ( don't leave home without it )

Its what I posted for you a day and a half ago in this thread, which you never commented on;

here is the issue imho- you think the Democratic party owns some moral or ethical high-ground, some how your views are superior in those contexts to the gop's.....

They don't, and neither does the gop. I get that, I don't think you or your party do.



and finally, and this is key- as to say prop 8 and doma and those kind of cultural issues- I think, perhaps that you and I KNOW many here and those opposed to gop/con views on this, don't think there is a argument or an argument can be made in earnest or holds any value, as in a closely held personal values/beliefs that bares some thought and consideration, everything the gop or cons say comes from dark evil place and is not even worthy of genuine, serious consideration.....


Therefore, they're all extremists, haters, they can be discarded as "crazies" and that kills the debate right then and also, the media drives this with a slant thats off the charts, even framing a debate, its almost always framed as the good ( you/dems) vs.the evil ( basically, anyone else) , that is dishonest and intellectually vacuous, you may not like the other sides views but they are just as important and meaningful and require thoughtful consideration, not visceral angst and close mindedness ( and yes the gop does own some of this too) .......and that, really, is the issue.

"here is the issue imho- you think the Democratic party owns some moral or ethical high-ground, some how your views are superior in those contexts to the gop's.....

They don't, and neither does the gop. I get that, I don't think you or your party do.

You're correct, I do believe the Democratic Party is moral and the Republican Party of today is not. Examine the issues on Gun Control, Voting Rights, Equal Rights, Unemployment Insurance, Health Care, Food Stamps, Gay & Lesbian Marriage. Where do the callous conservatives in the GOP stand on these issues (granted, not all of the callous conservatives are Republicans)?

Dismissing my comments as playing the race card with an eye roll is beneath you. I've been on political message boards since I retired in 2005 and the issue of racism was quite until Obama was nominated. I could do a list of overt racism from some regulars on this message board but don't have the time to list all of the covert racism obvious to anyone reading between the lines.

I didn't write all Republicans are extremists or racists, in fact I pointed out that moderate Republicans are dismissed as RINO's by the extremists.

I still strand by the OP and simply because I dismiss people like odd-dude as jerks doesn't mean I hate him (or anyone else). Odd-dude has stopped beating his dog, and that's a good thing (even though he lost part of his right ear before deciding dog beating was not a good thing).

 

[Wry Catcher]

Lmao. Al Gore got his backside handed to him for trying to gerrymander the State of Florida during the election.

And Kathleen Harris was given a seat in congress for suppressing the vote of black voters and cutting off the vote in Democratic counties.

Who was Kathleen Harris? Still sore over a 14 year old election are you?

If you don't know you have no business posting on a political message board.

BTW, I not sore over the election. A country like ours gets the government it deserves. Over 4,500 of our troops killed and thousands more wounded based on the election in 2000, I hope the voters learned from that fiasco.

 

[Seawytch]

Some things should not be a "for profit" industry. Our national defense is one, education is another and health care should also be on that list.

so how much should Doctors and Nurses make per year?.....just askin.....

We manage to have a defense and education system that protects or educates all people and still Generals and teachers get paid. Imagine that?

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Duh...that was the point. People without insurance could still get their lives saved...by the rest of us. The freeloaders could forgo their insurance and buy a crotch rocket instead...that they would later wrap around a tree so that I got to pay for their lifeflight and emergency care. Great system!

I wouldn't want someone like you or Obama helping save my life...everything to some of you is MONEY..saving the life is just something you USE to put down others who don't NEED insurance and pay for their OWN medical as they become ill..

It costs money to provide medical care.

So either medical care is a consumer item or it's a public service.

Most of the world treats it as a public service. As a result, they pay less for it, they live longer, less of their babies die in infancy and they aren't wiped out by a medical crisis.

Unlike this country, where 62% of bankruptcies are caused by medical issues.

With respect to "paying less" for health care, you get what you pay for.

An Ontario Chamber of Commerce survey found over 80% of respondents have some level of dissatisfaction with the current Canadian health care system, with 60% endorsing greater private-sector financing and delivery of health care services. Almost 40% of respondents would be most comfortable with a parallel private system that complements the publicly administered system.'
Further, according to a Pollara Strategic Opinion and Market Research survey, 63% of respondents would be willing to pay out of pocket for faster access to health care services, and an Ipsos-Reid and Canadian Medical Association survey found 84% of the general public and 85% of physicians overwhelmingly agree that when patients have to wait longer than is considered medically acceptable, they should be able to go elsewhere at public expense.

In 2005, a landmark Supreme Court of Canada decision, Chaoulli v. Quebec, overturned a Quebec health care law preventing residents from seeking medical care outside the government's health insurance plan, subjecting many to long wait periods for care.
"In some cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public health care," the courts' decision said. "The prohibition on obtaining private health insurance ... is not constitutional where the public system fails to deliver reasonable services."
The decision has fueled discussion about private health insurance and political demands to reduce wait times in the public health care system. According to the Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association, in the past five years private health plans have grown at an average rate of 12% annually, testifying to the growing need for supplementary health insurance protection when the public system falls short.

http://www.cimca.ca/media/EmployeeBenefitNews-Feb07.pdf

Patients are enduring increasingly long delays before having some of the most common forms of surgery, according to official data that casts serious doubt on David Cameron's pledge to keep NHS waiting times low.

The average wait before having a new knee fitted rose from 88.9 days to 99.2 days, while patients needing hernia surgery typically waited 78.3 days in 2011 compared with 70.4 the year before. The delay before the removal of gallstones increased over the same period, by 7.4 days, as did the delay before having a new hip (6.3 days longer), hysterectomy (three days) and cataract removed (2.2 days).

David Cameron faces pressure as NHS waiting times grow

Back in 2008, the Labour Government achieved its spectacular promise that most patients would be treated within 18 weeks in the English NHS.

So the original targets were based on those retrospective waiting times, mainly that 90% of patients admitted for treatment must have waited less than 18 weeks since referral. It sounds sensible, but it has a huge loophole: patients only count against the target when you admit them, but don't if you keep them waiting.

So hospitals could avoid the penalties by ensuring that, every time they admitted a long-waiter, they also admitted nine short-waiters out of turn. One well-regarded hospital achieved the target month after month like this, despite having a massive backlog of long-waiting patients (with many waiting over a year).

Ending perverse penalties on NHS waiting times | Healthcare Professionals Network | Guardian Professional

How long do you think you should wait for treatment under a government universal health care plan?

 

[Derideo_Te]

I wouldn't want someone like you or Obama helping save my life...everything to some of you is MONEY..saving the life is just something you USE to put down others who don't NEED insurance and pay for their OWN medical as they become ill..

It costs money to provide medical care.

So either medical care is a consumer item or it's a public service.

Most of the world treats it as a public service. As a result, they pay less for it, they live longer, less of their babies die in infancy and they aren't wiped out by a medical crisis.

Unlike this country, where 62% of bankruptcies are caused by medical issues.

With respect to "paying less" for health care, you get what you pay for.

Patients are enduring increasingly long delays before having some of the most common forms of surgery, according to official data that casts serious doubt on David Cameron's pledge to keep NHS waiting times low.

The average wait before having a new knee fitted rose from 88.9 days to 99.2 days, while patients needing hernia surgery typically waited 78.3 days in 2011 compared with 70.4 the year before. The delay before the removal of gallstones increased over the same period, by 7.4 days, as did the delay before having a new hip (6.3 days longer), hysterectomy (three days) and cataract removed (2.2 days).

David Cameron faces pressure as NHS waiting times grow

Back in 2008, the Labour Government achieved its spectacular promise that most patients would be treated within 18 weeks in the English NHS.

So the original targets were based on those retrospective waiting times, mainly that 90% of patients admitted for treatment must have waited less than 18 weeks since referral. It sounds sensible, but it has a huge loophole: patients only count against the target when you admit them, but don't if you keep them waiting.

So hospitals could avoid the penalties by ensuring that, every time they admitted a long-waiter, they also admitted nine short-waiters out of turn. One well-regarded hospital achieved the target month after month like this, despite having a massive backlog of long-waiting patients (with many waiting over a year).

Ending perverse penalties on NHS waiting times | Healthcare Professionals Network | Guardian Professional

How long do you think you should wait for treatment under a government universal health care plan?

Isn't waiting for treatment preferable to being denied all treatment because you can't afford it?

 

[Trajan]

It seems the GOP has many supporters unable to respond to the points stated below without defaulting to profanity, personal attacks and ridiculousness. Few admit to being Republicans - one did but when asked why s/he cut and ran - but all seem to hate the millions of Americans registered as Democrats.

For the record I don't hate Republicans, I don't hate anyone not even the disgusting, foolish, willfully ignorant, hateful and profane; the vast majority those who use pejoratives against all who post opinions which conflict with their own. This strongly suggests their beliefs are not their own, considered after actually thinking about issues. Most I believe have been spoon fed an ideology by demagogues and charlatans on TV, Radio and on the INTERNET and simply parrot them as their own.

For those who believe pointing out my opinion that those I characterize as "disgusting, foolish, willfully ignorant, hateful and profane" suggest I have engaged in hypocrisy there is no hope for them. A simple reading of the responses to the original post is sufficient evidence of the factual basis of my comment.

Of course that blatant racism, covert and overt, which didn't exist before President Obama was nominated is not something adopted by listening to voices on the Right Wing, it is something within the soul of too many Americans - black and white, but not exclusively so, for bigotry exists in all facets of our society most notably in misogyny, and prejudices against gays, lesbians and immigrants.

I stand by this OP:

On the GOP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Republican Party (RP) is dying by its own hand. To be viable it needs to weed out extremists and understand a national party needs to represent all United States Citizens. At one time the party leaders pretended to have a big tent open to everyone; once that was proved ridiculous they dropped the tag-line and even the pretext of cultural pluralism.

There is no doubt that the RP is the party of Big Business and holds blue collar workers in disdain. Their policies exploit the low income worker, both non citizen immigrants and American citizens, and deceive the middle class with platitudes, false pathos and promises never fulfilled. They obfuscate issues with emotion laden propaganda and misuse words - making them pejoratives - to defame anyone who represents a threat to their one goal: Power.

Essentially the RP of today is built on a foundation of mendacity and is little different than the French Aristocracy before 1789. While the phrase, "let them eat cake" is apocryphal it exists today in the policies of the extreme members in GOP leadership, especially on the state level. Attacks on Unionism, demands that the poor pay more in taxes and the 'job creators' pay less, eliminating the minimum wage law, acting as if those in the legislatures know better then do doctors on the needs of health for women and children, building barriers to voting and that anyone who attempts to curtail the abuse of health insurers is a Communist, Socialist or Statist.

Unless the RP wakes up it will find itself a footnote in history.

lets compare you're out of the gate passive-aggressive, ' I don't hate you, even if you're a ------------- ' dude....what a riot.

Oh, and the usual race card nonsense ( don't leave home without it )

Its what I posted for you a day and a half ago in this thread, which you never commented on;

here is the issue imho- you think the Democratic party owns some moral or ethical high-ground, some how your views are superior in those contexts to the gop's.....

They don't, and neither does the gop. I get that, I don't think you or your party do.



and finally, and this is key- as to say prop 8 and doma and those kind of cultural issues- I think, perhaps that you and I KNOW many here and those opposed to gop/con views on this, don't think there is a argument or an argument can be made in earnest or holds any value, as in a closely held personal values/beliefs that bares some thought and consideration, everything the gop or cons say comes from dark evil place and is not even worthy of genuine, serious consideration.....


Therefore, they're all extremists, haters, they can be discarded as "crazies" and that kills the debate right then and also, the media drives this with a slant thats off the charts, even framing a debate, its almost always framed as the good ( you/dems) vs.the evil ( basically, anyone else) , that is dishonest and intellectually vacuous, you may not like the other sides views but they are just as important and meaningful and require thoughtful consideration, not visceral angst and close mindedness ( and yes the gop does own some of this too) .......and that, really, is the issue.

"here is the issue imho- you think the Democratic party owns some moral or ethical high-ground, some how your views are superior in those contexts to the gop's.....

They don't, and neither does the gop. I get that, I don't think you or your party do.

You're correct, I do believe the Democratic Party is moral and the Republican Party of today is not. Examine the issues on Gun Control, Voting Rights, Equal Rights, Unemployment Insurance, Health Care, Food Stamps, Gay & Lesbian Marriage. Where do the callous conservatives in the GOP stand on these issues (granted, not all of the callous conservatives are Republicans)?

Dismissing my comments as playing the race card with an eye roll is beneath you. I've been on political message boards since I retired in 2005 and the issue of racism was quite until Obama was nominated. I could do a list of overt racism from some regulars on this message board but don't have the time to list all of the covert racism obvious to anyone reading between the lines.

I didn't write all Republicans are extremists or racists, in fact I pointed out that moderate Republicans are dismissed as RINO's by the extremists.

I still strand by the OP and simply because I dismiss people like odd-dude as jerks doesn't mean I hate him (or anyone else). Odd-dude has stopped beating his dog, and that's a good thing (even though he lost part of his right ear before deciding dog beating was not a good thing).

you've played the race card, and we both know it. ........you (and Joe B) want to and DO believe that angst over obama is race, when its that hes a democrat, Hilary's health care project got pummeled by the gop, last I checked, she was white ( although some call her husband at least until obama election) the first black president

Examine the issues on Gun Control, Voting Rights, Equal Rights, Unemployment Insurance, Health Care, Food Stamps, Gay & Lesbian Marriage.

and as I said, when I responded to your list of what you think are extremist views, at the end of the day, apparently everything is 'extreme', differences of basic ideology don't matter.............. you didn't digest a word I said, you don't care what anyone else has to say because you don't accord it any value , nothing is reasonable, no debate genuine, its all extreme........your mind is closed.

You're correct, I do believe the Democratic Party is moral and the Republican Party of today is not.

and there it is, arrogance like that is not something to be proud of, you don't own the franchise on morals etc. .

 

[Trajan]

Seriously? I may not make you think twice about you comment, but consider, Odd-dude liked it (that should given anyone pause) and this:

Consider the 2000 general election and the damage done by the neo cons who brought us the Iraq war? Consider the vote which gave the Democrats the H. of Rep. and the ability to pass health care reform; or the full court press by the health care industry which put the GOP back in power at the H. of Rep. in 2010.

Voting matters; there is a great difference between the RP and the DP as well as the LP.

Lmao. Al Gore got his backside handed to him for trying to gerrymander the State of Florida during the election.

And Kathleen Harris was given a seat in congress for suppressing the vote of black voters and cutting off the vote in Democratic counties.

oh for god sakes....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Some things should not be a "for profit" industry. Our national defense is one, education is another and health care should also be on that list.

so how much should Doctors and Nurses make per year?.....just askin.....

We manage to have a defense and education system that protects or educates all people and still Generals and teachers get paid. Imagine that?

nice Bakersfield Two-Step Wytch.... was the question to hard?.....should i rephrase it?....please advise.......... in Anaheim.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

It costs money to provide medical care.

So either medical care is a consumer item or it's a public service.

Most of the world treats it as a public service. As a result, they pay less for it, they live longer, less of their babies die in infancy and they aren't wiped out by a medical crisis.

Unlike this country, where 62% of bankruptcies are caused by medical issues.

With respect to "paying less" for health care, you get what you pay for.
.

Back in 2008, the Labour Government achieved its spectacular promise that most patients would be treated within 18 weeks in the English NHS.

So the original targets were based on those retrospective waiting times, mainly that 90% of patients admitted for treatment must have waited less than 18 weeks since referral. It sounds sensible, but it has a huge loophole: patients only count against the target when you admit them, but don't if you keep them waiting.

So hospitals could avoid the penalties by ensuring that, every time they admitted a long-waiter, they also admitted nine short-waiters out of turn. One well-regarded hospital achieved the target month after month like this, despite having a massive backlog of long-waiting patients (with many waiting over a year).

Ending perverse penalties on NHS waiting times | Healthcare Professionals Network | Guardian Professional

How long do you think you should wait for treatment under a government universal health care plan?

Isn't waiting for treatment preferable to being denied all treatment because you can't afford it?

not if you have something that needs to be taken care of now.....not 5 months from now...

 

[Derideo_Te]

With respect to "paying less" for health care, you get what you pay for.
.





How long do you think you should wait for treatment under a government universal health care plan?

Isn't waiting for treatment preferable to being denied all treatment because you can't afford it?

not if you have something that needs to be taken care of now.....not 5 months from now...

It is not the government that makes the decision as to the urgency of treatment. The medical professionals make that diagnosis.

 

[Seawytch]

so how much should Doctors and Nurses make per year?.....just askin.....

We manage to have a defense and education system that protects or educates all people and still Generals and teachers get paid. Imagine that?

nice Bakersfield Two-Step Wytch.... was the question to hard?.....should i rephrase it?....please advise.......... in Anaheim.....

The answer was given. Despite the Defense of our Nation applying to all citizens equally, the defense industry still is...and people still get paid. Do we pay cops, teachers and firefighters? Do they still teach and protect ALL people regardless of their individual ability to pay for those services?

 

[Trajan]

Isn't waiting for treatment preferable to being denied all treatment because you can't afford it?

not if you have something that needs to be taken care of now.....not 5 months from now...

It is not the government that makes the decision as to the urgency of treatment. The medical professionals make that diagnosis.

or judges apparently...

 

[Trajan]

We manage to have a defense and education system that protects or educates all people and still Generals and teachers get paid. Imagine that?

nice Bakersfield Two-Step Wytch.... was the question to hard?.....should i rephrase it?....please advise.......... in Anaheim.....

The answer was given. Despite the Defense of our Nation applying to all citizens equally, the defense industry still is...and people still get paid. Do we pay cops, teachers and firefighters? Do they still teach and protect ALL people regardless of their individual ability to pay for those services?

you're mixing apples and oranges.

some municipalities have more or less police per capita ( and the modernization/ efficiency is different too) or services becasue their property taxes can or not sppt. a larger/smaller grp. who provides those services......