OK Truthmatters

[Toro]

Tell me Toro how did the banks get all its employees to go along with selling sub prime tainted mortgage securities?

Investors wanted them. Investors could pick up an extra 30-40 bps for AAA securities. These things weren't being sold. They were flying off the shelf.

 

[Truthmatters]

But those investors were lied to about the level of sub prime in the products they were buying.

That is a fact dude

 

[Toro]

But those investors were lied to about the level of sub prime in the products they were buying.

That is a fact dude

Generally they weren't lied to. I sat in on those presentations. They were very clear about what they were selling.

 

[Truthmatters]

Dude the facts do not agree with your personal experience

 

[Truthmatters]

Citigroup Paying $285 Million To Settle Charges Of Misleading Buyers Of Mortgage Securities


the facts just keep proving you wrong

 

[Truthmatters]

There would have been NO way to do that crime if the brokers had NOT been responsible to NO ONE but their bosses

 

[Truthmatters]

Exactly WHO in these corporations did the crimes?


which individual was prosicuted for the crime?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

They proved they KNEW the bottom was going to fall out because they began CHEATING securities buyers before it fell out

And that's why the banks all made money during the crisis.

Wait, they lost tens of billions?
Hundreds of billions even?

I guess you lied.....

But the CEOs got pleanty huh?

That's awful, huh?

Why aren't the cheaters at Fannie and Freddie in jail?
Besides the fact that they're all liberal democrats.....

 

[Truthmatters]

Still not ONE person on any side has addressed the actual facts I present in this thread.


what was with the Bush admin holding back these broker rules for 8 long years?

why is it those are the very same years this mess was building and then crashed.

look at the date of when they finally gave in and implimented them.

 

[Truthmatters]

Sept. 19, 2007

 

[Mad Scientist]

TM has to be on some sort of Prescription Psychotropic Drug to be as out of touch with reality as she is.

Sympathy reps for Toro. He may have failed, but he was brave in the attempt!

 

[Rat in the Hat]

TM, you're not doing too well on presenting your "facts".

Why don't you have whoever is giving you your instructions come here and do it him/her/themselves?

 

[boedicca]

TM has to be on some sort of Prescription Psychotropic Drug to be as out of touch with reality as she is.

Sympathy reps for Toro. He may have failed, but he was brave in the attempt!

I'm going with the alternate theory that she was born with only a lower brain stem.

 

[Toro]

Dude the facts do not agree with your personal experience

I talked to the guys that sold this when it was happening. They told me that investors, particularly in Europe, didn't want to talk abut anything else for 18 months. Most of the people genuinely believed that because housing prices wouldn't fall and hadn't fallen for 60 years, the securities were safe. The banks believed it. The ratings agencies believed it. The academics believed it. Even the government and the Fed believed. Bubbles can only occur if most people believe it.

As for the charges, those were generally because they weren't informing investors that their prop desks were hedging their books, and they were, for the most part, minor relative to their total asset base. But that was a gray area of the law. Many firms settled because they didn't want to risk losing more in court.

You have to understand that the banks kept the riskiest portions of the tranches. That's why they were wiped out. That's why Citigroup had to be bailed out. Citigroup was insolvent because they drank the Kool Aid. The stock of Citi fell from $40 to $1 because of it. (It has since had a 1:10 reverse split.) They believed it. The CEO of Citi was fired because of it. Bear Stearns, Lehman, Merrill, all wiped out. They all believed it. Even Goldman Sachs, who successfully skirted a collapse did so because about half a dozen prop traders hedged their book. Most of the mortgage and derivatives desk who sold this stuff didn't know it was being put on.

But again, you have to look at the big picture. Bubbles don't occur because of fraud. Fraud occurs because of bubbles. The bubble loosens standards, which leads to more fraud because people think that markets can only go up, which covers a lot of stuff going on in the market. That's why all the really bad frauds like Madoff were exposed after the market collapsed. That's what you learn when you study hundreds of years of economic and financial history.

I agree that deregulation played a part in the financial crisis. Deregulation has often led to financial booms and busts. But your topic about broker licensing is so inconsequential, to blame it on that is simply incorrect.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Citigroup Paying $285 Million To Settle Charges Of Misleading Buyers Of Mortgage Securities


the facts just keep proving you wrong

I love the "facts" in that article.

Hedge funds had asked Citigroup to sell them investments that would decline if the housing market crashed. Citigroup did so, and wanted to get in on the action, the SEC said.

Citigroup bet that the investments would fail, but never told investors it had done so, SEC enforcement chief Robert Khuzami said in a conference call.

OMG! That's awful! (Why is it awful?)

Even though Citigroup designed the investment to fail

LOL! That's funny.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Still not ONE person on any side has addressed the actual facts I present in this thread.


what was with the Bush admin holding back these broker rules for 8 long years?

why is it those are the very same years this mess was building and then crashed.

look at the date of when they finally gave in and implimented them.

Nobody cares. Why hasn't Obama submitted a budget in the last 3 or 4 years?

Let's talk about something important, for once.

 

[Truthmatters]

The penalty is the biggest involving a Wall Street firm accused of misleading investors before the financial crisis since Goldman Sachs & Co. paid $550 million to settle similar charges last year. JPMorgan Chase & Co. resolved similar charges in June and paid $153.6 million.

All the cases have involved complex investments called collateralized debt obligations. Those are securities that are backed by pools of other assets, such as mortgages.
The penalty is the biggest involving a Wall Street firm accused of misleading investors before the financial crisis since Goldman Sachs & Co. paid $550 million to settle similar charges last year. JPMorgan Chase & Co. resolved similar charges in June and paid $153.6 million.

All the cases have involved complex investments called collateralized debt obligations. Those are securities that are backed by pools of other assets, such as mortgages.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/19/citigroup-settlement-mortgage-securities_n_1019729.html

 

[Truthmatters]

they LIED to the investors.

they all did it.

Funny they all desided to cheat their investors this way while the broker rules were in limbo huh?

 

[Truthmatters]

Dude the facts do not agree with your personal experience

I talked to the guys that sold this when it was happening. They told me that investors, particularly in Europe, didn't want to talk abut anything else for 18 months. Most of the people genuinely believed that because housing prices wouldn't fall and hadn't fallen for 60 years, the securities were safe. The banks believed it. The ratings agencies believed it. The academics believed it. Even the government and the Fed believed. Bubbles can only occur if most people believe it.

As for the charges, those were generally because they weren't informing investors that their prop desks were hedging their books, and they were, for the most part, minor relative to their total asset base. But that was a gray area of the law. Many firms settled because they didn't want to risk losing more in court.

You have to understand that the banks kept the riskiest portions of the tranches. That's why they were wiped out. That's why Citigroup had to be bailed out. Citigroup was insolvent because they drank the Kool Aid. The stock of Citi fell from $40 to $1 because of it. (It has since had a 1:10 reverse split.) They believed it. The CEO of Citi was fired because of it. Bear Stearns, Lehman, Merrill, all wiped out. They all believed it. Even Goldman Sachs, who successfully skirted a collapse did so because about half a dozen prop traders hedged their book. Most of the mortgage and derivatives desk who sold this stuff didn't know it was being put on.

But again, you have to look at the big picture. Bubbles don't occur because of fraud. Fraud occurs because of bubbles. The bubble loosens standards, which leads to more fraud because people think that markets can only go up, which covers a lot of stuff going on in the market. That's why all the really bad frauds like Madoff were exposed after the market collapsed. That's what you learn when you study hundreds of years of economic and financial history.

I agree that deregulation played a part in the financial crisis. Deregulation has often led to financial booms and busts. But your topic about broker licensing is so inconsequential, to blame it on that is simply incorrect.

dude personal stories dont fly.

You would not just accept any personal story from me would you?

 

[Samson]

The penalty is the biggest involving a Wall Street firm accused of misleading investors before the financial crisis since Goldman Sachs & Co. paid $550 million to settle similar charges last year. JPMorgan Chase & Co. resolved similar charges in June and paid $153.6 million.

All the cases have involved complex investments called collateralized debt obligations. Those are securities that are backed by pools of other assets, such as mortgages.
The penalty is the biggest involving a Wall Street firm accused of misleading investors before the financial crisis since Goldman Sachs & Co. paid $550 million to settle similar charges last year. JPMorgan Chase & Co. resolved similar charges in June and paid $153.6 million.

All the cases have involved complex investments called collateralized debt obligations. Those are securities that are backed by pools of other assets, such as mortgages.


Citigroup Paying $285 Million To Settle Charges Of Misleading Buyers Of Mortgage Securities

Huffington Post.


The origin of your tiny intellect is no longer a mystery.