Ok, if it's not heredity...

[Shogun]

bullshit.


Some dogs are better at sniffing out dead bodies than other dogs. Yet, all dogs smell. I think where you people are getting tripped up is the application to the individual despite a range of racial potential. If everyone in the world were given an IQ test in which all sociological factors were nullified the result would not be the exact same across ethnic demographics. this doesn't suggest that, individually, a person from a low scoring ethnicity CAN'T score high but the idea that everyone has the exact same, clonelike potential is just retarded.

 

[manifold]

Sure. Race is a heritable trait. So is intelligence, in all probability. But that doesn't mean that some races are more or less intelligent than others...

Right it doesn't mean that necessarily. But why is it unreasonable to conclude some races might be more intelligent on average than others as a result of this heritability?

The thing is intelligence is not inherent to ones race, that's the point. You can conclude that some races might have measured with superior intelligence at some point in time, on some sort of test, but you can't say that those differences are a result of their race.

I never said it was a result of their race. Both race and intelligence are due in large part to inherited genes. Therefore it's reasonable to conclude that they could be highly correlated. That doesn't mean one is the cause for the other. But it could still very well mean that some races are on average more or less intellegent than others.

 

[Ravi]

bullshit.


Some dogs are better at sniffing out dead bodies than other dogs. Yet, all dogs smell. I think where you people are getting tripped up is the application to the individual despite a range of racial potential. If everyone in the world were given an IQ test in which all sociological factors were nullified the result would not be the exact same across ethnic demographics. this doesn't suggest that, individually, a person from a low scoring ethnicity CAN'T score high but the idea that everyone has the exact same, clonelike potential is just retarded.

Dogs were artificially bred to take advantage of the bloodhound trait. Mani already tried that gambit. And of course everyone doesn't have the same potential.

 

[manifold]

Sure. Race is a heritable trait. So is intelligence, in all probability. But that doesn't mean that some races are more or less intelligent than others...

Right it doesn't mean that necessarily. But why is it unreasonable to conclude some races might be more intelligent on average than others as a result of this heritability?

Because it is a non-proven conclusion. Because intelligence is a trait our entire species shares. It'd be like saying race determines gender.

But if you can find some concrete evidence feel free to post it.

Just like my conclusion that a woman can't be half-pregnant is a non-proven conclusion.

 

[Ravi]

Right it doesn't mean that necessarily. But why is it unreasonable to conclude some races might be more intelligent on average than others as a result of this heritability?

Because it is a non-proven conclusion. Because intelligence is a trait our entire species shares. It'd be like saying race determines gender.

But if you can find some concrete evidence feel free to post it.

Just like my conclusion that a woman can't be half-pregnant is a non-proven conclusion.

No, that's totally different...it is observable and provable beyond a shadow of a doubt. No one but a mental defective would ever think a woman could be half pregnant.

 

[Shogun]

bullshit.


Some dogs are better at sniffing out dead bodies than other dogs. Yet, all dogs smell. I think where you people are getting tripped up is the application to the individual despite a range of racial potential. If everyone in the world were given an IQ test in which all sociological factors were nullified the result would not be the exact same across ethnic demographics. this doesn't suggest that, individually, a person from a low scoring ethnicity CAN'T score high but the idea that everyone has the exact same, clonelike potential is just retarded.

Dogs were artificially bred to take advantage of the bloodhound trait. Mani already tried that gambit. And of course everyone doesn't have the same potential.

are you suggesting that humans are impervious to breeding? Are you familiar at all with genetics?

and yes, it's the very premise that we do not all have the same potential, as defined by our common ethnicities, that supports a different range of generalized abilities.

 

[Ravi]

bullshit.


Some dogs are better at sniffing out dead bodies than other dogs. Yet, all dogs smell. I think where you people are getting tripped up is the application to the individual despite a range of racial potential. If everyone in the world were given an IQ test in which all sociological factors were nullified the result would not be the exact same across ethnic demographics. this doesn't suggest that, individually, a person from a low scoring ethnicity CAN'T score high but the idea that everyone has the exact same, clonelike potential is just retarded.

Dogs were artificially bred to take advantage of the bloodhound trait. Mani already tried that gambit. And of course everyone doesn't have the same potential.

are you suggesting that humans are impervious to breeding? Are you familiar at all with genetics?

and yes, it's the very premise that we do not all have the same potential, as defined by our common ethnicities, that supports a different range of generalized abilities.

Sure humans can be bred for intelligence. But, again, that doesn't mean intelligence is governed by race.

 

[manifold]

Sure humans can be bred for intelligence. But, again, that doesn't mean intelligence is governed by race.

Nobody has suggested that intelligence is governed by race. When you finally figure that out, perhaps the point will be clear to you.

 

[Ravi]

Then why do you keep making those conclusions?

 

[Shogun]

Dogs were artificially bred to take advantage of the bloodhound trait. Mani already tried that gambit. And of course everyone doesn't have the same potential.

are you suggesting that humans are impervious to breeding? Are you familiar at all with genetics?

and yes, it's the very premise that we do not all have the same potential, as defined by our common ethnicities, that supports a different range of generalized abilities.

Sure humans can be bred for intelligence. But, again, that doesn't mean intelligence is governed by race.

Tell me, ravir... do you think EYE COLOR is governed by race? The physical potential for intelligence is no less physical than the potential for eye color. Ever see a blue eyed negro? a naturally blond asian? Why do you think irish people are pale, ravi? Or have a higher potential for red, course hair? Does this mean that EVERY irish kid with have red hair? of course not INDIVIDUALLY. But, suggesting that this particular branch of human ethnicities DONT share a common physical trait is just silly.

 

[Valerie]

Right it doesn't mean that necessarily. But why is it unreasonable to conclude some races might be more intelligent on average than others as a result of this heritability?

The thing is intelligence is not inherent to ones race, that's the point. You can conclude that some races might have measured with superior intelligence at some point in time, on some sort of test, but you can't say that those differences are a result of their race.

I never said it was a result of their race. Both race and intelligence are due in large part to inherited genes. Therefore it's reasonable to conclude that they could be highly correlated. That doesn't mean one is the cause for the other. But it could still very well mean that some races are on average more or less intelligent than others.

People are not inherently more stupid because of their race, that's all I'm saying.

Intelligence can be measured at one point in time, in one way or another, and we can study the numbers and make charts and make inferences about different groups of people, okay...so what? It makes me queasy when it seems to be a justification for discrimination against a certain group.

Individual intellectual potential varies for many reasons and is not limited by race.



Those races who achieved a higher measure on such a test are not necessarily more intelligent because of their race, it's just an incidental circumstantial factor, that's what I'm saying. What you're saying, I'm not sure.

 

[Shogun]

But, if ALL social factors are nullified there is still a difference of generalized potential for intelligence. We are not clones.

 

[Ravi]

are you suggesting that humans are impervious to breeding? Are you familiar at all with genetics?

and yes, it's the very premise that we do not all have the same potential, as defined by our common ethnicities, that supports a different range of generalized abilities.

Sure humans can be bred for intelligence. But, again, that doesn't mean intelligence is governed by race.

Tell me, ravir... do you think EYE COLOR is governed by race? The physical potential for intelligence is no less physical than the potential for eye color. Ever see a blue eyed negro? a naturally blond asian? Why do you think irish people are pale, ravi? Or have a higher potential for red, course hair? Does this mean that EVERY irish kid with have red hair? of course not INDIVIDUALLY. But, suggesting that this particular branch of human ethnicities DONT share a common physical trait is just silly.

Really, please post evidence to prove that statement in I bolded.

Do you believe everything is determined by race?

 

[Valerie]

But, if ALL social factors are nullified there is still a difference of generalized potential for intelligence. We are not clones.

Yes, our differences in potential are due to many factors. We are indeed not clones and race is not a predictor of intellectual capacity.

 

[Shogun]

Sure humans can be bred for intelligence. But, again, that doesn't mean intelligence is governed by race.

Tell me, ravir... do you think EYE COLOR is governed by race? The physical potential for intelligence is no less physical than the potential for eye color. Ever see a blue eyed negro? a naturally blond asian? Why do you think irish people are pale, ravi? Or have a higher potential for red, course hair? Does this mean that EVERY irish kid with have red hair? of course not INDIVIDUALLY. But, suggesting that this particular branch of human ethnicities DONT share a common physical trait is just silly.

Really, please post evidence to prove that statement in I bolded.

Do you believe everything is determined by race?

not RACE but GENETICS. Way to leap towards a straw man.

Heritability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Shogun]

But, if ALL social factors are nullified there is still a difference of generalized potential for intelligence. We are not clones.

Yes, our differences in potential are due to many factors. We are indeed not clones and race is not a predictor of intellectual capacity.

One of those many factors, though, IS race. Specifically, the genetic potential of a common ethnicity.

for instance, if I breed 100 generations of mentally retarded dogs should I expect the 101 generation litter to be full of mentally retarded or mentally superior dogs? I fully acknowledge that social factors play an equal part in the equation but disregarding the finite range of abilities per common ethnicity in the name of political correctness is just foolish.


Do you think we all have the same physical potential for blue eyes? If not, then why would you say this genetic trait is different from the physical genetic traits associated with intelligence? This is not to say that GENERALLY black people are less intelligent that white people but a generalized range of IQs per ethnicity will not match every other ethnicity's results.

 

[Valerie]

But, if ALL social factors are nullified there is still a difference of generalized potential for intelligence. We are not clones.

Yes, our differences in potential are due to many factors. We are indeed not clones and race is not a predictor of intellectual capacity.

One of those many factors, though, IS race. Specifically, the genetic potential of a common ethnicity.

for instance, if I breed 100 generations of mentally retarded dogs should I expect the 101 generation litter to be full of mentally retarded or mentally superior dogs? I fully acknowledge that social factors play an equal part in the equation but disregarding the finite range of abilities per common ethnicity in the name of political correctness is just foolish.


Do you think we all have the same physical potential for blue eyes? If not, then why would you say this genetic trait is different from the physical genetic traits associated with intelligence? This is not to say that GENERALLY black people are less intelligent that white people but a generalized range of IQs per ethnicity will not match every other ethnicity's results.

I'm not speaking in the name of political correctness. I'm speaking in the name of those who may be discriminated against as a result of an incorrect conclusion. I'm not saying you're incorrect, either. I think you're right about the heredity of physical traits. I'm just not comfortable assigning such "proof" to our measured intellectual differences according to race. I posted a scientific study earlier in the thread that dispels the entire argument since race is a social construct and most scientists can't even agree on how to define intelligence.

 

[AllieBaba]

Ok, so evolution only applies to animals is what we come up with. God doesn't exist, evolution explains man's existence.... and W. Virginians are inbred retards...but otherwise, the finer points of evolution (a population develops as environment dictates) just doesn't apply to humans. At least not black ones.

Likewise everyone is equal....except those who might have a lower iq or live in a less than desirable part of town. Those people are chaff.

 

[Ravi]

Ok, so evolution only applies to animals is what we come up with.

We did?

God doesn't exist, evolution explains man's existence....

If you say so

and W. Virginians are inbred retards...

Possibly

but otherwise, the finer points of evolution (a population develops as environment dictates) just doesn't apply to humans.

Actually it does which I believe is the point you can take away from this thread.

At least not black ones.

Why not...blacks are human, no?

Likewise everyone is equal....except those who might have a lower iq or live in a less than desirable part of town. Those people are chaff.

In the eyes of the law everyone is equal. And no, those people aren't chaff...they are equal.

 

[AllieBaba]

Ravi, we're talking ABOUT you, not to you. Get a clue, girl.