Ok, if it's not heredity...

[manifold]

Is that a yes or a no?

The way you worded the question, no.

So in your view, race has nothing to do with intelligence?

So it's all or nothing with you? Black and white? Either race determines intelligence or it has nothing to do with it?

Why can't it be somewhere in between? Why are you so afraid of the gray?

 

[Ravi]

The way you worded the question, no.

So in your view, race has nothing to do with intelligence?

So it's all or nothing with you? Black and white? Either race determines intelligence or it has nothing to do with it?

Yes.

Why can't it be somewhere in between? Why are you so afraid of the gray?

I can't think of a gray answer. Race either determines inherent intelligence or it doesn't. Where is the gray?

 

[manifold]

So in your view, race has nothing to do with intelligence?

So it's all or nothing with you? Black and white? Either race determines intelligence or it has nothing to do with it?

Yes.

Why can't it be somewhere in between? Why are you so afraid of the gray?

I can't think of a gray answer. Race either determines inherent intelligence or it doesn't. Where is the gray?

How about it merely influences it? It influences it by determining the probability distribution? But where one lands on their own genetically determined probability distribution is random. That's how it works for every other physical trait. Why can't you fathom that it intelligence might just work the same? Does race determine eye color? Does race determine hair color? Does race determine height? Does race determine the size of one's nose? No, it doesn't. But it sure does influence it.

 

[editec]

I just reviewed this entire thread. Ravi didn't once address any actual point made by me or by xsited1. Instead she put words in our mouth and then proceeded to refute those words, that neither of us actually said. There is a term for this debate technique, it's called the strawman. And if Ravi didn't invent it, she sure has perfected it.

I'm curious, is there ANYONE here that hasn't been strawman'd by Ravi? Anyone?

I haven't.

 

[manifold]

I just reviewed this entire thread. Ravi didn't once address any actual point made by me or by xsited1. Instead she put words in our mouth and then proceeded to refute those words, that neither of us actually said. There is a term for this debate technique, it's called the strawman. And if Ravi didn't invent it, she sure has perfected it.

I'm curious, is there ANYONE here that hasn't been strawman'd by Ravi? Anyone?

I haven't.

I knew there just had to be an exception, there always is.

Lucky you.

But since you decided to jump in...

Do you think intelligence is a product of nature, nurture or both?

 

[manifold]

For the record, I think intellectual potential is a product of nature and the level of achievment against that potential is a product of nurture.

 

[Ravi]

So it's all or nothing with you? Black and white? Either race determines intelligence or it has nothing to do with it?

Yes.

Why can't it be somewhere in between? Why are you so afraid of the gray?

I can't think of a gray answer. Race either determines inherent intelligence or it doesn't. Where is the gray?

How about it merely influences it? It influences it by determining the probability distribution? But where one lands on their own genetically determined probability distribution is random. That's how it works for every other physical trait. Why can't you fathom that it intelligence might just work the same? Does race determine eye color? Does race determine hair color? Does race determine height? Does race determine the size of one's nose? No, it doesn't. But it sure does influence it.

I think that there are characteristics in all humans that don't depend on ethnic background. For instance, having two legs and walking upright, having emotions, having
opposable thumbs. Intelligence is one of these shared human characteristics.

You would have to assume that one race is mentally inferior to another to begin with to determine that race influences intelligence. I just don't see any credible evidence to support that theory.

 

[Ravi]

For the record, I think intellectual potential is a product of nature and the level of achievment against that potential is a product of nurture.

So you do think race affects intelligence. Do you base this on anything other than standardized test results?

 

[manifold]

So Ravi, according to you intelligence is 100% the product of nurture?

 

[manifold]

Yes.

I can't think of a gray answer. Race either determines inherent intelligence or it doesn't. Where is the gray?

How about it merely influences it? It influences it by determining the probability distribution? But where one lands on their own genetically determined probability distribution is random. That's how it works for every other physical trait. Why can't you fathom that it intelligence might just work the same? Does race determine eye color? Does race determine hair color? Does race determine height? Does race determine the size of one's nose? No, it doesn't. But it sure does influence it.

I think that there are characteristics in all humans that don't depend on ethnic background. For instance, having two legs and walking upright, having emotions, having
opposable thumbs. Intelligence is one of these shared human characteristics.

You would have to assume that one race is mentally inferior to another to begin with to determine that race influences intelligence. I just don't see any credible evidence to support that theory.

Does race determine eye color or does it have nothing to do with it?

Does race determine skin color or does it have nothing to do with it?

Does race determine height or does it have nothing to do with it?

All dogs share common characteristics, like having four legs, having emotions, not having opposable thumbs. So why have you determined that you will NEVER own a pit bull?

 

[manifold]

For the record, I think intellectual potential is a product of nature and the level of achievment against that potential is a product of nurture.

So you do think race affects intelligence. Do you base this on anything other than standardized test results?

Common sense.

Genetics affects intelligence. To suggest otherwise seems ludicrously retarded or intellectually dishonest.

 

[Ravi]

So Ravi, according to you intelligence is 100% the product of nurture?

No, I can see that intelligence probably has a genetic factor...if your parents and grandparents are intelligent you have a much greater likelihood of being intelligent. But that has nothing to do with race.

 

[Ravi]

How about it merely influences it? It influences it by determining the probability distribution? But where one lands on their own genetically determined probability distribution is random. That's how it works for every other physical trait. Why can't you fathom that it intelligence might just work the same? Does race determine eye color? Does race determine hair color? Does race determine height? Does race determine the size of one's nose? No, it doesn't. But it sure does influence it.

I think that there are characteristics in all humans that don't depend on ethnic background. For instance, having two legs and walking upright, having emotions, having
opposable thumbs. Intelligence is one of these shared human characteristics.

You would have to assume that one race is mentally inferior to another to begin with to determine that race influences intelligence. I just don't see any credible evidence to support that theory.

Does race determine eye color or does it have nothing to do with it?

Does race determine skin color or does it have nothing to do with it?

Does race determine height or does it have nothing to do with it?

All dogs share common characteristics, like having four legs, having emotions, not having opposable thumbs. So why have you determined that you will NEVER own a pit bull?

Because in my opinion they are overbred to promote random traits among the pit bull population. You keep breeding vicious examples then you are going to keep breeding vicious dogs. That also has nothing really to do with the original breed of dog but with a trait in single dogs.

Race, skin color and height are not the same thing as intelligence.

 

[manifold]

So Ravi, according to you intelligence is 100% the product of nurture?

No, I can see that intelligence probably has a genetic factor...if your parents and grandparents are intelligent you have a much greater likelihood of being intelligent. But that has nothing to do with race.

Genes have nothing to do with race?

psst: your exposing your PC brainwashing.

 

[Ravi]

For the record, I think intellectual potential is a product of nature and the level of achievment against that potential is a product of nurture.

So you do think race affects intelligence. Do you base this on anything other than standardized test results?

Common sense.

Genetics affects intelligence. To suggest otherwise seems ludicrously retarded or intellectually dishonest.

Sure but race doesn't. To suggest otherwise with no evidence seems retarded, intellectually dishonest, and racist, imo.

 

[manifold]

I think that there are characteristics in all humans that don't depend on ethnic background. For instance, having two legs and walking upright, having emotions, having
opposable thumbs. Intelligence is one of these shared human characteristics.

You would have to assume that one race is mentally inferior to another to begin with to determine that race influences intelligence. I just don't see any credible evidence to support that theory.

Does race determine eye color or does it have nothing to do with it?

Does race determine skin color or does it have nothing to do with it?

Does race determine height or does it have nothing to do with it?

All dogs share common characteristics, like having four legs, having emotions, not having opposable thumbs. So why have you determined that you will NEVER own a pit bull?

Because in my opinion they are overbred to promote random traits among the pit bull population. You keep breeding vicious examples then you are going to keep breeding vicious dogs. That also has nothing really to do with the original breed of dog but with a trait in single dogs.

Race, skin color and height are not the same thing as intelligence.

So selective breeding influences dogs but not humans.

psst: you're really exposing your PC brainwashing.

 

[Ravi]

So Ravi, according to you intelligence is 100% the product of nurture?

No, I can see that intelligence probably has a genetic factor...if your parents and grandparents are intelligent you have a much greater likelihood of being intelligent. But that has nothing to do with race.

Genes have nothing to do with race?

psst: your exposing your PC brainwashing.

lol...strawman attack. Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly. Skin color is heritable across generations. So is intelligence, probably. But that doesn't mean that one racial group is stupider than another...though it may mean one family branch of a particular racial group is stupider than another. But that could happen in any ethnic population.

Anyway, shouldn't you be in church? I'm off to work on my tan.

 

[manifold]

So you do think race affects intelligence. Do you base this on anything other than standardized test results?

Common sense.

Genetics affects intelligence. To suggest otherwise seems ludicrously retarded or intellectually dishonest.

Sure but race doesn't. To suggest otherwise with no evidence seems retarded, intellectually dishonest, and racist, imo.

So you don't think race has completely no relation to inherited genes?

WOW! Your PC brainwashing is complete.

 

[manifold]

No, I can see that intelligence probably has a genetic factor...if your parents and grandparents are intelligent you have a much greater likelihood of being intelligent. But that has nothing to do with race.

Genes have nothing to do with race?

psst: your exposing your PC brainwashing.

lol...strawman attack. Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly. Skin color is heritable across generations. So is intelligence, probably. But that doesn't mean that one racial group is stupider than another...though it may mean one family branch of a particular racial group is stupider than another. But that could happen in any ethnic population.

Anyway, shouldn't you be in church? I'm off to work on my tan.

Talk about strawman. The point we are arguing doesn't require any race to be stupider than another. I'm more than willing to leave that up to the empirical data.

 

[manifold]

...though it may mean one family branch of a particular racial group is...

Conceptually, what is the difference between a family branch and a branch of humanity other than scale?

Answer: Nothing.

It appears that you know I'm right, but the truth makes you uncomfortable. I can understand that. But I've known you for a while now and taking comfort in denial isn't something I'm used to witnessing from you. But afterall you are human and I forgive you.