Obama's tax credits won't stimulate the economy

[DavidS]

I submit that it is NOT the only reason why we had positive GDP growth....

So what were the other factors contributing to a positive GDP in the second quarter?

Please remember the GDP = consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

 

[DavidS]

And it is not an election which is a popularity contest? Again, winning an election inherently makes you a financial and economic genius how?

Obama is not an economic genius. Neither is Gingrich.

These people are:

David Bonior (Member House of Representatives 1977-2003)

Warren Buffett (Chairman and CEO, Berkshire Hathaway)-will participate via speakerphone

Roel Campos (former SEC Commissioner)

William Daley (Chairman of the Midwest, JP Morgan Chase; Former Secretary, U.S. Dept of Commerce, 1997-2000)

William Donaldson (Former Chairman of the SEC 2003-2005)

Roger Ferguson (President and CEO, TIAA-CREF and former Vice Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve)

Jennifer Granholm (Governor, State of Michigan)

Anne Mulcahy (Chairman and CEO, Xerox)

Richard Parsons (Chairman of the Board, Time Warner)

Penny Pritzker (CEO, Classic Residence by Hyatt)

Robert Reich (University of California, Berkeley; Former Secretary, U.S. Dept of Labor, 1993-1997)

Robert Rubin (Chairman and Director of the Executive Committee, Citigroup; Former Secretary, U.S. Dept of Treasury, 1995-1999)

Eric Schmidt (Chairman and CEO, Google)

Lawrence Summers (Harvard University; Managing Director, D.E. Shaw; Former Secretary, U.S. Dept of Treasury, 1999-2001)

Laura Tyson (Haas School of Business, University of California, Berkeley; Former Chairman, National Economic Council, 1995-1996; Former Chairman, President's Council of Economic Advisors, 1993-1995)

Antonio Villaraigosa (Mayor, City of Los Angeles)

Paul Volcker (Former Chairman, U.S. Federal Reserve 1979-1987)

 

[DiamondDave]

So what were the other factors contributing to a positive GDP in the second quarter?

Please remember the GDP = consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

Yep.. no other production or consumption or form of spending did anything... no investments into stocks (before the big drop), bonds, etc... nothing behind an increase in exportation by over 10% had anything to do with it.... it was all the little $300 stimulus checks



You want more? Or are you willing to back off your absolutely ridiculous, kindergarten like claims?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The stimulus package IS a good idea. It gives consumers money. The GDP is defined by consumer spending. The only reason our GDP in the 2nd quarter this year was positive was because of the stimulus checks we received. Did you receive one, Kev? If you're so against these stimulus checks, did you return yours to the government or tear yours up?



Archaic.

As I've told you before, they're either going to print the money or borrow the money for the stimulus checks. So we either inflate our money supply, which reduces the value of the dollar, or we add to our national debt which is already somewhere around $11 trillion. I can't really see where that helps us in the long run. I did not receive a stimulus check.

Those "archaic" economists successfully predicted our current economic problems years ago, while your sleek and modern economists were like a deer in the headlights when it hit. Also, your sleek and modern economists have yet to do anything that has helped us out of this recession.

 

[DiamondDave]

Obama is not an economic genius. Neither is Gingrich.

These people are:

David Bonior (Member House of Representatives 1977-2003)

Warren Buffett (Chairman and CEO, Berkshire Hathaway)-will participate via speakerphone

Roel Campos (former SEC Commissioner)

William Daley (Chairman of the Midwest, JP Morgan Chase; Former Secretary, U.S. Dept of Commerce, 1997-2000)

William Donaldson (Former Chairman of the SEC 2003-2005)

Roger Ferguson (President and CEO, TIAA-CREF and former Vice Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve)

Jennifer Granholm (Governor, State of Michigan)

Anne Mulcahy (Chairman and CEO, Xerox)

Richard Parsons (Chairman of the Board, Time Warner)

Penny Pritzker (CEO, Classic Residence by Hyatt)

Robert Reich (University of California, Berkeley; Former Secretary, U.S. Dept of Labor, 1993-1997)

Robert Rubin (Chairman and Director of the Executive Committee, Citigroup; Former Secretary, U.S. Dept of Treasury, 1995-1999)

Eric Schmidt (Chairman and CEO, Google)

Lawrence Summers (Harvard University; Managing Director, D.E. Shaw; Former Secretary, U.S. Dept of Treasury, 1999-2001)

Laura Tyson (Haas School of Business, University of California, Berkeley; Former Chairman, National Economic Council, 1995-1996; Former Chairman, President's Council of Economic Advisors, 1993-1995)

Antonio Villaraigosa (Mayor, City of Los Angeles)

Paul Volcker (Former Chairman, U.S. Federal Reserve 1979-1987)

But... but... but.. they had experience years ago... we havn't had an economy like this in decades... they're not working on the federal budget now... Experience in the past .vs "the worst financial crisis we have ever seen"

Now remind me who we heard that sentiment from a few posts back?

like clubbing a baby seal

And let us not really have to go in to the financial statuses of some of these companies... and don't even make me laugh by trying to defend Granholm's vast positive economics and budget experience... LOL

 

[DavidS]

Yep.. no other production or consumption or form of spending did anything... no investments into stocks (before the big drop), bonds, etc... nothing behind an increase in exportation by over 10% had anything to do with it.... it was all the little $300 stimulus checks



You want more? Or are you willing to back off your absolutely ridiculous, kindergarten like claims?

Are you going to have a real discussion and stop being sarcastic or are you going to be a smart ass to compensate for your ingorance? I've asked you to provide me with facts on what caused the 2nd quarter GDP to be positive other than the increase in consumer spending. Consumer spending increased because of the receipt of stimulus checks. Now if you have evidence to counter that, I'm more than willing to read it. But if you're going to continue these smart ass remarks, I'm done here.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

In response to David's continual comments about the GDP, I submit this article by Peter Schiff. Schiff was talking about our current recession back in 2006.

"Down the Rabbit Hole" by Peter Schiff, FSU Editorial 09/05/2008

 

[DavidS]

As I've told you before, they're either going to print the money or borrow the money for the stimulus checks. So we either inflate our money supply, which reduces the value of the dollar,

We've printed hundreds of dollars in extra spending for the $350 billion bailout plus the billions of dollars in bailout for AIG and all of the other companies and the dollar is stronger right now than it's been in years.

 

[DiamondDave]

Are you going to have a real discussion and stop being sarcastic or are you going to be a smart ass to compensate for your ingorance? I've asked you to provide me with facts on what caused the 2nd quarter GDP to be positive other than the increase in consumer spending. Consumer spending increased because of the receipt of stimulus checks. Now if you have evidence to counter that, I'm more than willing to read it. But if you're going to continue these smart ass remarks, I'm done here.

Yet you have provided nothing to back up your claim that all increased consumer spending was due to the $300 checks.... nice try.... you lose

I showed you point blank, other areas of contention about where things had an effect on positive GDP... INCLUDING an over 10% increase in US exports

You like to try and spin and claim an argument victory... all the while offering nothing but a biased and unproven stance, and attempting to pass it off as fact... and when others suggest that can be and are other influences, you simply attempt to bush it off because it does not fit the conclusion you already have in your head....

 

[editec]

We are not going to fix this economy by changes in our tax structure, and I don't give a damn whose tax plan we use.

We gave enormous tax cuts to the most affluent segments of our society and what we got from that mistaken policy was this economic disaster which I note is still getting worse.

Encentivizing our industries to take their production offshore, and inviting nations which impose tariffs on us -- and basically work with a slave economy -- to compete with our working class is the root cause of the economic woes we face right now.

All the secondary problems we face (like the idiocy of the mortgage crises) were in response to the diminishing purchasing power of the working class, not the cause of it.

You cannot go from buying less than 5% of yur purchasing to more than 30% of all the purchasing in three decades, OFF SHORE and expect that economy is going to stay healthy..

That money goes offshore and there's no multiplier effects to benefit the rest of the economy That money goes to make the economies of those foreign nations healthier, instead of ours.

This obsession some of us have with taxes, this delusion that all our problems are the result of taxes, is more mindless blather from people who object to paying any taxes at all under any circumstances whatever.

 

[Care4all]

From the Wall Street Journal by Newt Gringich.



Story continues here

while i differ with gingrich on tax refunds being welfare for those not paying income tax, they do pay federal taxes, FICA taxes and this would refund a share of that.... and also I do not see it as welfare because only the WORKING CLASS would get them....

As a couple, without children, i see this as less of welfare than giving all of the parents out there a tax credit for each of your kids....that's welfare, your kids don't contribute to the workforce yet, but they get a check just for being there, while these income tax filers are actually producing something in the economy..... it's not welfare!!! gingrich is so off base and wrong on this!

HOWEVER, regarding the stimulus.....I do not believe it is needed BECAUSE there is no greater stimulus than our gas prices being at around $2 bucks a gallon....it hits us immediately, and if this extra cash in the pocket doesn't give us money to spend then i don't know what would!??

If it does not stimulate the economy enough, i will not rule out further stimulus, but not in the form of a check to us....

in the form of investment in our nation....repairing our broken infrastructures, roads, bridges, schools, making green with solar or wind electric for all government buildings, retrofitting or buying new gvt cars, busses, trucks in to fuel efficient vehicles, improving our electric grid with added green resources....

IF WE ARE BORROWING the money to stimulate, we might as well strengthen our infrastructure so that AT LEAST the people that will be paying the loan, your children, and children's children, will get some benefit out of it....!!!!

it's the ONLY ethical thing to do!

care

 

[editec]

HOWEVER, regarding the stimulus.....I do not believe it is needed BECAUSE there is no greater stimulus than our gas prices being at around $2 bucks a gallon....it hits us immediately, and if this extra cash in the pocket doesn't give us money to spend then i don't know what would!??

You're damned right about that.

I note that food prices that were going up every damned week seem to be coming down somewhat, too.

Sadly, I think if we Americans keep losing jobs, that our economy is going to keep going south regardless of what the price of oil does.

All the tax cuts in the world won't help if you can't find a decent job.

 

[Paulie]

Right now prices are coming back down because of the deflation we're seeing. Oil at $50 helps a lot. But this is going to be short lived. There's a lot of new money that hasn't hit the streets yet.

I agree with Care about infrastructure. Not only does the country need it, it would create a lot of jobs as well.