Obamas forget recession and jet to NYC for date night, dinner and a show

[Fraulein Hilda]

Date Poll, Survey, or Initiative Highlight Details
Feb.
2009
Grove Insight Opinion Research "When given a choice of the current system or one "like Medicare that is run by the government and financed by taxpayers," voters overwhelmingly chose the latter. A solid majority (59%) say they would prefer a national health insurance program that covers everyone, over the current system of private insurance offered to most through their emloyer." Link
Feb.
2009
New York Times/CBS News Poll Americans are more likely today to embrace the idea of the government providing health insurance than they were 30 years ago. 59% say the government should provide national health insurance, including 49% who say such insurance should cover all medical problems. Link
Nov. 2008 Ballot initiative question in Massachusetts, “Should the representative from this district be instructed to support legislation creating a cost-effective single payer health insurance system that is available to all residents, and oppose laws penalizing those who fail to obtain health insurance?” "....local ballot initiatives supporting single payer and opposing individual mandates passed by landslide margins in all ten legislative districts where they appeared. With almost all precincts tallied, roughly 73 percent of 181,000 voters in the ten districts voted YES...."
Single-Payer Poll, Survey, and Initiative Results

What does that tell you if 66 percent of Americans want smaller government and 59% want universal healthcare? Polls don't mean shit!

It tells me people like Rocks are liars when it comes to being forthright about universal healthcare being BIGGER government.

Which is why the SEIU wants to shut up the opposition to it.

 

[Old Rocks]

Does Old Rocks want government to make his/her healthcare decisions?

Does Old Rocks have a poll that says Americans want government to make their healthcare decisions?

Does Old Rocks think a "single payer sytem," who is the government, does not mean the government makes your healthcare decisions?

Old Rocks lies a lot and uses faulty sites to prove his point. He's either a socialist or a communist...I'm not sure which one.

Certainly I am not a stupid and willfully ignorant ass like yourself.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Adj. 1. uncontested - not disputed and not made the object of contention or competition; "uncontested authority"
contested - disputed or made the object of contention or competition; "a contested election"

If he paid for it is he obligated to tell you how much it cost?

The 2008 election fails that definition.

You're goddamned right he is. 1) He has done nothing but flap his purple lips about "transparency.' 2) He is not a goddamned king, despite your insistence that he be treated as such to the contrary. He is spending tax dollars on his personal entertainment, and I have every right to know how much. And if the press were doing their job, they would demand to know.

And it will come out how much it cost, so you better prepare the next level of spin on this.

Well, well, nice little bigot. Now we know the source of your animosity. Can't stand them uppity people that are American Success stories when they are the wrong color. Too bad, get used to seeing Americans of whatever color that have great talent succeed in this nation.

I have purple lips. I just don't tell lies to people through them.

Are we finished debating the substance of my issue?

People of color are going to succeed in this nation with or without liberals. Sonia Sotomayor did.

 

[Meister]

Adj. 1. uncontested - not disputed and not made the object of contention or competition; "uncontested authority"
contested - disputed or made the object of contention or competition; "a contested election"

If he paid for it is he obligated to tell you how much it cost?

The 2008 election fails that definition.

You're goddamned right he is. 1) He has done nothing but flap his purple lips about "transparency.' 2) He is not a goddamned king, despite your insistence that he be treated as such to the contrary. He is spending tax dollars on his personal entertainment, and I have every right to know how much. And if the press were doing their job, they would demand to know.

And it will come out how much it cost, so you better prepare the next level of spin on this.

Well, well, nice little bigot. Now we know the source of your animosity. Can't stand them uppity people that are American Success stories when they are the wrong color. Too bad, get used to seeing Americans of whatever color that have great talent succeed in this nation.

As long as it gets us to a hard socialized nation your good with it. Knowing we can't afford it means nothing to you. But being the socialist/communist that you are...your good with it.

 

[Meister]

Does Old Rocks want government to make his/her healthcare decisions?

Does Old Rocks have a poll that says Americans want government to make their healthcare decisions?

Does Old Rocks think a "single payer sytem," who is the government, does not mean the government makes your healthcare decisions?

Old Rocks lies a lot and uses faulty sites to prove his point. He's either a socialist or a communist...I'm not sure which one.

Certainly I am not a stupid and willfully ignorant ass like yourself.

You haven't proven it. I really don't think your willfully ignorant, I just think your ingnorant, I did notice you didn't refute the communist label...that speaks volumes

 

[Old Rocks]

Does Old Rocks want government to make his/her healthcare decisions?

Does Old Rocks have a poll that says Americans want government to make their healthcare decisions?

Does Old Rocks think a "single payer sytem," who is the government, does not mean the government makes your healthcare decisions?

Old Rocks lies a lot and uses faulty sites to prove his point. He's either a socialist or a communist...I'm not sure which one.

His links are only half his problem. He is either dishonest or ignorant about what a government run health care system is.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I am not at all ignorant as to what a government run health care system is. After all, every wealthy industrial nation but ours has one. And they all have longer life spans, healthier old ages, and a far lower infant mortality rate. The lies that people like yourself state cannot change these facts.
2008 is shaping up to be the election year that we finally get to have the Great American Healthcare Debate again. Harry and Louise are back with a vengeance. Conservatives are rumbling around the talk show circuit bellowing about the socialist threat to the (literal) American body politic. And, as usual, Canada is once again getting dragged into the fracas, shoved around by both sides as either an exemplar or a warning -- and, along the way, getting coated with the obfuscating dust of so many willful misconceptions that the actual facts about How Canada Does It are completely lost in the melee.

I'm both a health-care-card-carrying Canadian resident and an uninsured American citizen who regularly sees doctors on both sides of the border. As such, I'm in a unique position to address the pros and cons of both systems first-hand. If we're going to have this conversation, it would be great if we could start out (for once) with actual facts, instead of ideological posturing, wishful thinking, hearsay, and random guessing about how things get done up here.

To that end, here's the first of a two-part series aimed at busting the common myths Americans routinely tell each other about Canadian health care. When the right-wing hysterics drag out these hoary old bogeymen, this time, we need to be armed and ready to blast them into straw. Because, mostly, straw is all they're made of.

1. Canada's health care system is "socialized medicine."
False. In socialized medical systems, the doctors work directly for the state. In Canada (and many other countries with universal care), doctors run their own private practices, just like they do in the US. The only difference is that every doctor deals with one insurer, instead of 150. And that insurer is the provincial government, which is accountable to the legislature and the voters if the quality of coverage is allowed to slide.

The proper term for this is "single-payer insurance." In talking to Americans about it, the better phrase is "Medicare for all."
Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Hey, Rocks, don't you think people will be PISSED when they wake up someday and realize they were lied to and government REALLY does run their healthcare?

You think it won't matter to them?

Quit spitting out links to surveys and tell me if you think the majority of Americans want government making their health care decisions.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

If the "one insurer" is run by the state, then it is socialized medicine, because government controls the means of production, or, in this case, payment.

 

[jgbkab]

Uncontested means nobody ran against him.

Like Obama's thugs are making happen for Arlen Specter's primary.

Who paid for it? And, if they taxpayers did not, why won't the White House say how much it cost? Do they feel as though they were caught doing something?

Adj. 1. uncontested - not disputed and not made the object of contention or competition; "uncontested authority"
contested - disputed or made the object of contention or competition; "a contested election"

If he paid for it is he obligated to tell you how much it cost?

The 2008 election fails that definition.

You're goddamned right he is. 1) He has done nothing but flap his purple lips about "transparency.' 2) He is not a goddamned king, despite your insistence that he be treated as such to the contrary. He is spending tax dollars on his personal entertainment, and I have every right to know how much. And if the press were doing their job, they would demand to know.

And it will come out how much it cost, so you better prepare the next level of spin on this.

Ok, you win.

 

[Old Rocks]

Here is where you can see how the systems of Britain, Germany, Switzerland, Japan, and Taiwan work. From the point of view of the doctors, patients, and government officials that administrate them. Note that in none of these nations are there families going bankrupt because of medical bills.

FRONTLINE: sick around the world | PBS

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

You have to lie through your teeth and tell people the single payer is not really government.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...

 

[Meister]

Old Rocks lies a lot and uses faulty sites to prove his point. He's either a socialist or a communist...I'm not sure which one.

His links are only half his problem. He is either dishonest or ignorant about what a government run health care system is.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I am not at all ignorant as to what a government run health care system is. After all, every wealthy industrial nation but ours has one. And they all have longer life spans, healthier old ages, and a far lower infant mortality rate. The lies that people like yourself state cannot change these facts.
2008 is shaping up to be the election year that we finally get to have the Great American Healthcare Debate again. Harry and Louise are back with a vengeance. Conservatives are rumbling around the talk show circuit bellowing about the socialist threat to the (literal) American body politic. And, as usual, Canada is once again getting dragged into the fracas, shoved around by both sides as either an exemplar or a warning -- and, along the way, getting coated with the obfuscating dust of so many willful misconceptions that the actual facts about How Canada Does It are completely lost in the melee.

I'm both a health-care-card-carrying Canadian resident and an uninsured American citizen who regularly sees doctors on both sides of the border. As such, I'm in a unique position to address the pros and cons of both systems first-hand. If we're going to have this conversation, it would be great if we could start out (for once) with actual facts, instead of ideological posturing, wishful thinking, hearsay, and random guessing about how things get done up here.

To that end, here's the first of a two-part series aimed at busting the common myths Americans routinely tell each other about Canadian health care. When the right-wing hysterics drag out these hoary old bogeymen, this time, we need to be armed and ready to blast them into straw. Because, mostly, straw is all they're made of.

1. Canada's health care system is "socialized medicine."
False. In socialized medical systems, the doctors work directly for the state. In Canada (and many other countries with universal care), doctors run their own private practices, just like they do in the US. The only difference is that every doctor deals with one insurer, instead of 150. And that insurer is the provincial government, which is accountable to the legislature and the voters if the quality of coverage is allowed to slide.

The proper term for this is "single-payer insurance." In talking to Americans about it, the better phrase is "Medicare for all."
Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org

You are ignorant to think that mortality rate of infants is due to our healthcare, it could be that we seem to have a lot of abortions. Our life spans being shorter could be to our life styles and not our healthcare. Now prove I'm wrong here old rocks. So maybe if you don't take other factors into consideration you are an ignorant mutt.

 

[Old Rocks]

If the "one insurer" is run by the state, then it is socialized medicine, because government controls the means of production, or, in this case, payment.

Instead of spitting out stupid one liners, why don't you show me where the US system is better? Do we pay less per capita for our health care? Do we live longer than those with single payer systems? Do we have a lower rate of infant mortality than the rest of the industrial nations?

You damned well know that the answers to all the questions is no. So why are you defending a broken system? Is your ideology more important to you than the health of this nations children? Apparently!

 

[DavidS]

Wow - traffic was a FRICKING NIGHTMARE tonight in the city - now I know why! Just got back from dinner and a play myself. Wait, should I feel guilty now because there are failing businesses in the economy? GM shot itself in the foot - why should I feel guilty?

If we all stop holding onto our money and start spending, it helps the economy. From the waiters at the restaurant to the people who staff a Broadway play - if I stay at home and eat, yes it saves me money but it also hurts the economy. If I spend money on our economy and others spend money with me - maybe, just maybe we'll find our way out of this recession.

If you're not directly impacted by this recession, i.e. out of work, foreclosed home... then go out and spend. I, for one, REFUSE to take part in this recession. I'm buying clothes, I'm going out to dinner, I'm seeing movies and little by little, the people who I leave tips for, the people who's companies I spend money on, survive this recession.

And truth to be told, if it wasn't for the Republicans and their laxy-dazy hands off economic policies, we wouldn't even be in this fucking recession right. So STFU you stupid Republicans and wise the fuck up.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

People go bankrupt for lots of reasons. You want to save them from bankruptcy and make their mortgages more affordable, too? Oops! We already tried that.

Why do you want to fuck up good healthcare for hundreds of millions of Americans just so a few million can get someone else to pay for their healthcare?

What makes you think you can take away my health plan, which I like, so everyone in the country is "equal" and has the same shitty healthcare the government wants to give them.

Do you think if the POTUS has no qualms about blowing $1M on a night on the town in a private jet, when you and I can't do that, he will not do the same for his own health care? Kennedy, if he's not dead by then? Pelosi? Reid?

 

[Meister]

Wow - traffic was a FRICKING NIGHTMARE tonight in the city - now I know why! Just got back from dinner and a play myself. Wait, should I feel guilty now because there are failing businesses in the economy? GM shot itself in the foot - why should I feel guilty?

If we all stop holding onto our money and start spending, it helps the economy. From the waiters at the restaurant to the people who staff a Broadway play - if I stay at home and eat, yes it saves me money but it also hurts the economy. If I spend money on our economy and others spend money with me - maybe, just maybe we'll find our way out of this recession.

If you're not directly impacted by this recession, i.e. out of work, foreclosed home... then go out and spend. I, for one, REFUSE to take part in this recession. I'm buying clothes, I'm going out to dinner, I'm seeing movies and little by little, the people who I leave tips for, the people who's companies I spend money on, survive this recession.

And truth to be told, if it wasn't for the Republicans and their laxy-dazy hands off economic policies, we wouldn't even be in this fucking recession right. So STFU you stupid Republicans and wise the fuck up.

Huh?

 

[Old Rocks]

You have to lie through your teeth and tell people the single payer is not really government.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...

Really, really stupid reply. Accusations of lies, without any supporting evidence at all is the only defense of your own lies.

I have presented sites and opinions of those that actually work within our health care system. I have presented how other nations systems work, and what their citizens think of their systems. All you have presented is one liners without any backup at all.

 

[DavidS]

People go bankrupt for lots of reasons. You want to save them from bankruptcy and make their mortgages more affordable, too? Oops! We already tried that.

Why do you want to fuck up good healthcare for hundreds of millions of Americans just so a few million can get someone else to pay for their healthcare?

What makes you think you can take away my health plan, which I like, so everyone in the country is "equal" and has the same shitty healthcare the government wants to give them.

Do you think if the POTUS has no qualms about blowing $1M on a night on the town in a private jet, when you and I can't do that, he will not do the same for his own health care? Kennedy, if he's not dead by then? Pelosi? Reid?

Ugh. He didn't take AF-1. He took a small gulfstream jet. That's #1. #2 is the President has a travel budget that he can use each year. #3 - he's a fucking millionaire because of his book - so he can spend his own money any way he fucking wants to.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Wow - traffic was a FRICKING NIGHTMARE tonight in the city - now I know why! Just got back from dinner and a play myself. Wait, should I feel guilty now because there are failing businesses in the economy? GM shot itself in the foot - why should I feel guilty?

If we all stop holding onto our money and start spending, it helps the economy. From the waiters at the restaurant to the people who staff a Broadway play - if I stay at home and eat, yes it saves me money but it also hurts the economy. If I spend money on our economy and others spend money with me - maybe, just maybe we'll find our way out of this recession.

If you're not directly impacted by this recession, i.e. out of work, foreclosed home... then go out and spend. I, for one, REFUSE to take part in this recession. I'm buying clothes, I'm going out to dinner, I'm seeing movies and little by little, the people who I leave tips for, the people who's companies I spend money on, survive this recession.

And truth to be told, if it wasn't for the Republicans and their laxy-dazy hands off economic policies, we wouldn't even be in this fucking recession right. So STFU you stupid Republicans and wise the fuck up.

People who can spend money won't, because every day their government talks about new ways they are going to tax it away.

What was so "hands off" about rigging the mortgage market so unqualified buyers could get loans and artificially drive up housing prices?

And, as a Jew, and ostensibly pro-Israel, I really don't know what you see in these liberals. They would stab Israel in the back any chance they got.

 

[Meister]

People go bankrupt for lots of reasons. You want to save them from bankruptcy and make their mortgages more affordable, too? Oops! We already tried that.

Why do you want to fuck up good healthcare for hundreds of millions of Americans just so a few million can get someone else to pay for their healthcare?

What makes you think you can take away my health plan, which I like, so everyone in the country is "equal" and has the same shitty healthcare the government wants to give them.

Do you think if the POTUS has no qualms about blowing $1M on a night on the town in a private jet, when you and I can't do that, he will not do the same for his own health care? Kennedy, if he's not dead by then? Pelosi? Reid?

Not to mention that the government can ration our healthcare. Tell us how we should lead our lives i.e. smoking, weight, foods. yeah that's the kind of government i always wanted