Obamacare: unquestionably the worst disaster in U.S. healthcare history

[kiwiman127]

Yeah, the beauty of the free market has given the American people and businesses the highest priced healthcare in the world by double.

And now we're federally mandated to pay for it, no matter how bad of a deal it is. You can sound the alarms all you want, but the fact remains: ObamaCare throws fuel on the fire.

Healthcare costs increased 131% 1999-2009 and wages increased 38% and that's good? Yeaaaa for the free markets!!!!

The entire concept of health insurance is inherently anti-free market. We haven't had ANY semblance of a free market in health care in probably a hundred years or more.

To see how a free market would affect health care prices, we'd have to abolish health insurance altogether and return to a cash-only system.

There is no doubt that Obamacare is not the answer to slowing down the skyrocketing costs of healthcare. Single Payer is a start and the negotiating of healthcare pricing is another answer.

 

[neomalthusian]

There is no doubt that Obamacare is not the answer to slowing down the skyrocketing costs of healthcare. Single Payer is a start and the negotiating of healthcare pricing is another answer.

This could have been your response to the OP, and we could have skipped over the partisan bickering.

 

[Katzndogz]

It is a law of nature that anything unsustainable won't continue. Obamacare will fail. Between now and the end it will just be very painful.

 

[kiwiman127]

"It sounds like you completely agree with the OP."

My point is all inclusive as far as the players versus the OP's, which points at just one player and is nothing but partisan hackery.

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean, but what I see in this thread is a link to Heritage that calls PPACA the worst health care disaster in history, and responses that 1) attack the source, and 2) describe the pre-PPACA state of health care in the US.

Whether Heritage is a legit source or not... and whether health care in the US was a disaster pre-PPACA or not, there still has been no counterargument to the OP's main argument, which is that PPACA is disastrous.

You don't understand what that is supposed to mean?
Go back and read the OP which is basically claiming that Obamacare os the worse disaster in US healthcare history. It is just one disaster and pales in comparison to the outrageous cost of healthcare in this country and how politicians from both sides of the aisle rollover for the healthcare lobby. Exactly how long can the the US people and business sector continue to absorb costs that rise 2-4 times the CPI?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Yeah, the beauty of the free market has given the American people and businesses the highest priced healthcare in the world by double.

And now we're federally mandated to pay for it, no matter how bad of a deal it is. You can sound the alarms all you want, but the fact remains: ObamaCare throws fuel on the fire.

Healthcare costs increased 131% 1999-2009 and wages increased 38% and that's good? Yeaaaa for the free markets!!!!

The entire concept of health insurance is inherently anti-free market. We haven't had ANY semblance of a free market in health care in probably a hundred years or more.

To see how a free market would affect health care prices, we'd have to abolish health insurance altogether and return to a cash-only system.

There is no doubt that Obamacare is not the answer to slowing down the skyrocketing costs of healthcare. Single Payer is a start......

....And, that ball's....

....ALREADY ROLLING!!!!

 

[francoHFW]

All the fears about O-care are pure fear mongering propaganda from greedy big health and Pubs, chumps. Masscare and all other modern countries, especially the Swiss and Dutch plans which are similar, prove that.

Of course it will be improved forever. Where are the national exchanges Pubs SAID they wanted? This IS the plan they said they wanted- to ruin Clintoncare, etc. Fegging lying POSs....

 

[bripat9643]

The Heritage Foundation is a group of bullshit regurgitating Neo-cons whose only purpose is to shovel garbage into the minds of tea partiers. You can be assured that any stats or facts that they release have been massaged as much as possible to make it seem like they have a point.

I'm sticking my fingers in my ears! NYAH! NYAH! NYAH! I can't hear you!

 

[Billo_Really]

Heritage Foundation investigative reporter Lachlan Markay wrote a story recently that got people upset. The IRS recently ruled that some of the common devices used in veterinary offices will be hit be hit by Obamacare’s 2.3 percent device tax. In response, many of the manufacturers are expected to raise their prices, which will raise pet care costs for concerned owners.

A survey in January 2012 showed that more than half of 181 manufactures of medical devices said they would pass some or all of the tax on to their customers. Among manufacturers here in North America, that number was even higher–58 percent. According to the American Pet Products Association, Americans spent over $13.5 billion on veterinary care in 2012. This could rise under Obamacare.

The tax will not affect veterinary equipment that is used exclusively for treating animals. However, several medical devices are used in both doctors and veterinary offices, and these are subject to the tax.

Fluffy and Fido May Have to Pay for Obamacare Too | myHeritage

This is why the "public option" was so important to be in the bill. It was the only thing that could force the healthcare industry to reduce their prices to consumers. That's why it became public enemy no.1 to get out of the bill.

But the "Affordable Care Act" is not the biggest disaster in regards to the healthcare industry, it's the governments refusal to enforce anti-trust laws and allow major healthcare companies to merge and monopolize the market. That's what allows them to jack up their prices to ridiculous levels, like a one night stay in the hospital costing someone in upwards of $36,000 dollars. Or a van ride from one hospital to another, $2000. The travel distance is only 11 miles and you're charged a couple grand. If you took a taxi for the same distance, it would be $40 bucks! These prices are obscene.

 

[P@triot]

You know Rottweiler, using right wing partisan think tanks ala Heritage, is equivalent to a lefty using HuffPost, Center for Public Integrity, Media Matters; etc. All one gets is a partisan hack's view.

"unquestionably the worst disaster in U.S. healthcare history"? That would be all the elected politicians who are letting the healthcare industry rape the American people and American businesses with the highest cost in the world by double! And it just keeps on getting worse and worse. Hundreds on millions dollars annually in lobbying efforts have paid off for the few at the expense of the masses.

"Letting"? Wow - one of the most ignorant posts in USMB history. You really demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge on how your own government works.

News flash "genius" - it's not up to the government to allow or not allow private industry to do anything. That's the beauty of the free market. If you don't like the cost, you can go to a competitor.

Or, better yet, you can start your own hospital and charge lower costs! Gasp! Imagine that. Except that you're too fuck'n lazy and/or too fuck'n stupid to do it - to do that, uh? You'd rather just have a Castro-wannabe do a Cuban-style communism and control everything and everyone.

My post was stupid, compared to what you post?
Yeah, the beauty of the free market has given the American people and businesses the highest priced healthcare in the world by double. And you think that's great? Look at the percentage of the GNP healthcare spending sucks up? And that's good?
The conservatives like to think they are pro-business but look:
Skyrocketing Health Care Costs Hamper U.S. Competitiveness
Skyrocketing Health Care Costs Hamper U.S. Competitiveness - DailyFinance
Healthcare Costs and U.S. Competitiveness
Healthcare Costs and U.S. Competitiveness - Council on Foreign Relations
Backgrounder: Healthcare Costs and U.S. Competitiveness
http://www.nytimes.com/cfr/world/slot1_20070514.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Health care related bankruptcy is on the rise, study says
Health care related bankruptcy is on the rise, study says

Healthcare costs increased 131% 1999-2009 and wages increased 38% and that's good? Yeaaaa for the free markets!!!!

It's amazing this has to be explained to liberals over and over. The skyrocketing healthcare costs are because the government take over of healthcare over the last 50+ years means there is NO free market.

It's a proven, undeniable fact that the free market drives down cost, while improving quality, because of competition. But, as usual, the idiot liberal dumbocrats felt that high costs through government dictatorship was a better option

Why does an aspirin cost $0.10 at your local pharmacy, and $10.00 at your local hospital? Because the fuck'n idiot liberal dumbocrat dictated many years ago that a hospital MUST provide care, regardless of a person's ability to pay. They thought (because they are so ignorant of business, economy, etc.) that hospitals would just eat that cost. Well, it doesn't work that way. Instead, a hospital (like ANY business), passes that cost on to the consumer. So since I'm covering the cost for the 18 people who didn't pay today, my costs are through the roof.

Go ahead, try to argue this FACT. I dare you....

 

[P@triot]

There is no doubt that Obamacare is not the answer to slowing down the skyrocketing costs of healthcare. Single Payer is a start and the negotiating of healthcare pricing is another answer.

Yeah, taking away ALL leverage is always a good way to drive down costs

This absurd statement is akin to saying the solution to the gun control issue is to buy a gun, put it to your head, and pull the trigger. Because, well, if you're not around, then you can't harm anyone with a gun...

 

[P@triot]

Heritage Foundation investigative reporter Lachlan Markay wrote a story recently that got people upset. The IRS recently ruled that some of the common devices used in veterinary offices will be hit be hit by Obamacare’s 2.3 percent device tax. In response, many of the manufacturers are expected to raise their prices, which will raise pet care costs for concerned owners.

A survey in January 2012 showed that more than half of 181 manufactures of medical devices said they would pass some or all of the tax on to their customers. Among manufacturers here in North America, that number was even higher–58 percent. According to the American Pet Products Association, Americans spent over $13.5 billion on veterinary care in 2012. This could rise under Obamacare.

The tax will not affect veterinary equipment that is used exclusively for treating animals. However, several medical devices are used in both doctors and veterinary offices, and these are subject to the tax.

Fluffy and Fido May Have to Pay for Obamacare Too | myHeritage

This is why the "public option" was so important to be in the bill. It was the only thing that could force the healthcare industry to reduce their prices to consumers. That's why it became public enemy no.1 to get out of the bill.

But the "Affordable Care Act" is not the biggest disaster in regards to the healthcare industry, it's the governments refusal to enforce anti-trust laws and allow major healthcare companies to merge and monopolize the market. That's what allows them to jack up their prices to ridiculous levels, like a one night stay in the hospital costing someone in upwards of $36,000 dollars. Or a van ride from one hospital to another, $2000. The travel distance is only 11 miles and you're charged a couple grand. If you took a taxi for the same distance, it would be $40 bucks! These prices are obscene.

Actually, it's government interference - forcing this private industry to provide service to people who can't pay - which has caused the obscene prices. And that is an undeniable fact. But, as always, you dumbocrats don't let the facts get in the way of your ideology.

 

[francoHFW]

So transparent online competition won't lead to lower costs? What channel ARE you on? LOL

 

[bripat9643]

So transparent online competition won't lead to lower costs? What channel ARE you on? LOL

Obamacare reduces competition, moron.

 

[ecinicola]

Obamacare is designed to ruin our lives, but make the politicians lives better. Its all about them, not us. If you notice, laws are changing to make our lives harder. Gov't agenceys are getting the benefits while we struggle. For example look at the new laws the dmv has now on drivers. Its all a money grab. They are doing things that will put money in their pockets, not yours.

 

[Sallow]

Heritage Foundation investigative reporter Lachlan Markay wrote a story recently that got people upset. The IRS recently ruled that some of the common devices used in veterinary offices will be hit be hit by Obamacare’s 2.3 percent device tax. In response, many of the manufacturers are expected to raise their prices, which will raise pet care costs for concerned owners.

A survey in January 2012 showed that more than half of 181 manufactures of medical devices said they would pass some or all of the tax on to their customers. Among manufacturers here in North America, that number was even higher–58 percent. According to the American Pet Products Association, Americans spent over $13.5 billion on veterinary care in 2012. This could rise under Obamacare.

The tax will not affect veterinary equipment that is used exclusively for treating animals. However, several medical devices are used in both doctors and veterinary offices, and these are subject to the tax.

Fluffy and Fido May Have to Pay for Obamacare Too | myHeritage

ObamaCare is the plan the Heritage Foundation backed when it was put up as an alternative to Hillary Clinton's plan.

It's also the very same plan implemented by Romney is Massachusettes.

 

[Sallow]

Obamacare is designed to ruin our lives, but make the politicians lives better. Its all about them, not us. If you notice, laws are changing to make our lives harder. Gov't agenceys are getting the benefits while we struggle. For example look at the new laws the dmv has now on drivers. Its all a money grab. They are doing things that will put money in their pockets, not yours.

Well no..

Other then the savings garnered from not having to pay for so many emergency room visits..

 

[Sallow]

Heritage Foundation investigative reporter Lachlan Markay wrote a story recently that got people upset. The IRS recently ruled that some of the common devices used in veterinary offices will be hit be hit by Obamacare’s 2.3 percent device tax. In response, many of the manufacturers are expected to raise their prices, which will raise pet care costs for concerned owners.

A survey in January 2012 showed that more than half of 181 manufactures of medical devices said they would pass some or all of the tax on to their customers. Among manufacturers here in North America, that number was even higher–58 percent. According to the American Pet Products Association, Americans spent over $13.5 billion on veterinary care in 2012. This could rise under Obamacare.

The tax will not affect veterinary equipment that is used exclusively for treating animals. However, several medical devices are used in both doctors and veterinary offices, and these are subject to the tax.

Fluffy and Fido May Have to Pay for Obamacare Too | myHeritage

This is why the "public option" was so important to be in the bill. It was the only thing that could force the healthcare industry to reduce their prices to consumers. That's why it became public enemy no.1 to get out of the bill.

But the "Affordable Care Act" is not the biggest disaster in regards to the healthcare industry, it's the governments refusal to enforce anti-trust laws and allow major healthcare companies to merge and monopolize the market. That's what allows them to jack up their prices to ridiculous levels, like a one night stay in the hospital costing someone in upwards of $36,000 dollars. Or a van ride from one hospital to another, $2000. The travel distance is only 11 miles and you're charged a couple grand. If you took a taxi for the same distance, it would be $40 bucks! These prices are obscene.

Actually, it's government interference - forcing this private industry to provide service to people who can't pay - which has caused the obscene prices. And that is an undeniable fact. But, as always, you dumbocrats don't let the facts get in the way of your ideology.

So you are part of the "let em die" crowd.

Actually..it's sort of worse then that. Because they were refusing "service", liberals call it health care, to people who could pay.

 

[P@triot]

All the fears about O-care are pure fear mongering propaganda from greedy big health and Pubs, chumps. Masscare and all other modern countries, especially the Swiss and Dutch plans which are similar, prove that.

Of course it will be improved forever. Where are the national exchanges Pubs SAID they wanted? This IS the plan they said they wanted- to ruin Clintoncare, etc. Fegging lying POSs....

This is the same ignorant, uneducated claims the liberals have made with each unconstitutional entitlement. All of which have become an unmitigated disaster which has placed this country on verge of collapse.

Both parties have acknowledged that Social Security is bankrupt. The GOP tried to stop this nightmare in the 1930's (while the ultra ignorant dumbocrats falsely claimed "all the fears about are pure fear mongering").

Both parties have acknowledged that Medicare is bankrupt. The GOP tried to stop this nightmare in the 1960's (while the ultra ignorant dumbocrats falsely claimed "all the fears about are pure fear mongering").

Both parties have acknowledged that Medicaid is bankrupt. The GOP tried to stop this nightmare in the 1960's (while the ultra ignorant dumbocrats falsely claimed "all the fears about are pure fear mongering").

Incidentally, how dumb are the dumbocrats to not see that if the government cannot afford Medicare & Medicaid (that's the entire claim for Obamacare - that "something needs to be done about the costs"), they will never be able to afford Obamacare.

That's dumbocrat "logic" at its finest. If we can't afford the costs of controlling a small part of healthcare, lets try to "fix" that by taking control of a larger part of that industry

 

[P@triot]

This is why the "public option" was so important to be in the bill. It was the only thing that could force the healthcare industry to reduce their prices to consumers. That's why it became public enemy no.1 to get out of the bill.

But the "Affordable Care Act" is not the biggest disaster in regards to the healthcare industry, it's the governments refusal to enforce anti-trust laws and allow major healthcare companies to merge and monopolize the market. That's what allows them to jack up their prices to ridiculous levels, like a one night stay in the hospital costing someone in upwards of $36,000 dollars. Or a van ride from one hospital to another, $2000. The travel distance is only 11 miles and you're charged a couple grand. If you took a taxi for the same distance, it would be $40 bucks! These prices are obscene.

Actually, it's government interference - forcing this private industry to provide service to people who can't pay - which has caused the obscene prices. And that is an undeniable fact. But, as always, you dumbocrats don't let the facts get in the way of your ideology.

So you are part of the "let em die" crowd.

Actually..it's sort of worse then that. Because they were refusing "service", liberals call it health care, to people who could pay.

First of all, nobody has even been denied service when they could pay.

Second, why exactly do they have to "die"? A person's inability to pay now is no indication of their ability to pay tomorrow. Put them on a payment plan and require them to pay it off no matter how long it takes. Problem solved - without causing an aspirin to cost $10 because the hospital has to pass on the cost.

 

[P@triot]

Heritage Foundation investigative reporter Lachlan Markay wrote a story recently that got people upset. The IRS recently ruled that some of the common devices used in veterinary offices will be hit be hit by Obamacare’s 2.3 percent device tax. In response, many of the manufacturers are expected to raise their prices, which will raise pet care costs for concerned owners.

A survey in January 2012 showed that more than half of 181 manufactures of medical devices said they would pass some or all of the tax on to their customers. Among manufacturers here in North America, that number was even higher–58 percent. According to the American Pet Products Association, Americans spent over $13.5 billion on veterinary care in 2012. This could rise under Obamacare.

The tax will not affect veterinary equipment that is used exclusively for treating animals. However, several medical devices are used in both doctors and veterinary offices, and these are subject to the tax.

Fluffy and Fido May Have to Pay for Obamacare Too | myHeritage

ObamaCare is the plan the Heritage Foundation backed when it was put up as an alternative to Hillary Clinton's plan.

Yep - 25 years ago. They have since retracted that concept, recognizing it for the failed concept that it is.

By the way, since we're discussing Hillary & healthcare, it was none other than Barack Obama himself who said during the 2008 primary's that Hillary's plan to solve the uninsured issue by demanding that everyone have health insurance (and I quote here) "is like trying to solve the homelessness by demanding everyone buy a house".

So unlike the Heritage Foundation, which suggested this plan 25 years ago and since realized the error of their ways, Barack Obama admitted this would be a failure immediately before implementing it.

It's also the very same plan implemented by Romney is Massachusetts.

I 1,000% support this being constitutionally at the state level if that is the will of the people of that state. That's something you liberals have never understood - the difference between state and federal government, and what is and what is not constitutional.

Your argument simply does not hold water