Obamacare: unquestionably the worst disaster in U.S. healthcare history

[Greenbeard]

First of all, nobody has even been denied service when they could pay.

Second, why exactly do they have to "die"? A person's inability to pay now is no indication of their ability to pay tomorrow. Put them on a payment plan and require them to pay it off no matter how long it takes. Problem solved - without causing an aspirin to cost $10 because the hospital has to pass on the cost.

Are you under the impression hospitals can't and don't do that now?

 

[Stephanie]

The Heritage Foundation is a group of bullshit regurgitating Neo-cons whose only purpose is to shovel garbage into the minds of tea partiers. You can be assured that any stats or facts that they release have been massaged as much as possible to make it seem like they have a point.

I guess if it didn't come from mediamatters or thinkprogess, then by golly it can't be TRUE..

 

[P@triot]

First of all, nobody has even been denied service when they could pay.

Second, why exactly do they have to "die"? A person's inability to pay now is no indication of their ability to pay tomorrow. Put them on a payment plan and require them to pay it off no matter how long it takes. Problem solved - without causing an aspirin to cost $10 because the hospital has to pass on the cost.

Are you under the impression hospitals can't and don't do that now?

Well they try, but since the parasites know they can't be denied, they know they are under no obligation to pay it back, so they don't.

 

[Stephanie]

We haven't even Begun to feel the fall out from ObamaCare..it's not going to pretty..

It's made our children, grandchildren and future generations slaves to the state..

the sad part is a lot of young ones today voted for it

 

[Greenbeard]

First of all, nobody has even been denied service when they could pay.

Second, why exactly do they have to "die"? A person's inability to pay now is no indication of their ability to pay tomorrow. Put them on a payment plan and require them to pay it off no matter how long it takes. Problem solved - without causing an aspirin to cost $10 because the hospital has to pass on the cost.

Are you under the impression hospitals can't and don't do that now?

Well they try, but since the parasites know they can't be denied, they know they are under no obligation to pay it back, so they don't.

They're under no obligation to pay or demonstrate ability to pay upfront. They can't be denied emergency care while lying on the floor bleeding. They can be and are still charged after the fact.

Which means if you're proposing a change it's that if they can't pay, they be denied emergency care to stabilize their condition (the only care hospitals are required to offer without ascertaining ability to pay beforehand). And, yes, that means these people then die.

 

[kiwiman127]

"Letting"? Wow - one of the most ignorant posts in USMB history. You really demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge on how your own government works.

News flash "genius" - it's not up to the government to allow or not allow private industry to do anything. That's the beauty of the free market. If you don't like the cost, you can go to a competitor.

Or, better yet, you can start your own hospital and charge lower costs! Gasp! Imagine that. Except that you're too ****'n lazy and/or too ****'n stupid to do it - to do that, uh? You'd rather just have a Castro-wannabe do a Cuban-style communism and control everything and everyone.

My post was stupid, compared to what you post?
Yeah, the beauty of the free market has given the American people and businesses the highest priced healthcare in the world by double. And you think that's great? Look at the percentage of the GNP healthcare spending sucks up? And that's good?
The conservatives like to think they are pro-business but look:
Skyrocketing Health Care Costs Hamper U.S. Competitiveness
Skyrocketing Health Care Costs Hamper U.S. Competitiveness - DailyFinance
Healthcare Costs and U.S. Competitiveness
Healthcare Costs and U.S. Competitiveness - Council on Foreign Relations
Backgrounder: Healthcare Costs and U.S. Competitiveness
http://www.nytimes.com/cfr/world/slot1_20070514.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Health care related bankruptcy is on the rise, study says
Health care related bankruptcy is on the rise, study says

Healthcare costs increased 131% 1999-2009 and wages increased 38% and that's good? Yeaaaa for the free markets!!!!

It's amazing this has to be explained to liberals over and over. The skyrocketing healthcare costs are because the government take over of healthcare over the last 50+ years means there is NO free market.

It's a proven, undeniable fact that the free market drives down cost, while improving quality, because of competition. But, as usual, the idiot liberal dumbocrats felt that high costs through government dictatorship was a better option

Why does an aspirin cost $0.10 at your local pharmacy, and $10.00 at your local hospital? Because the ****'n idiot liberal dumbocrat dictated many years ago that a hospital MUST provide care, regardless of a person's ability to pay. They thought (because they are so ignorant of business, economy, etc.) that hospitals would just eat that cost. Well, it doesn't work that way. Instead, a hospital (like ANY business), passes that cost on to the consumer. So since I'm covering the cost for the 18 people who didn't pay today, my costs are through the roof.

Go ahead, try to argue this FACT. I dare you....

I see you failed to address the fact that other countries have socialized medicine and all people are treated by hospitals/clinics.
Yet, the 10 cent aspirin doesn't cost $10 because the government negotiated with the provider of the aspirin the cost before the fact. You do know how negotiations work, don't you?
Now, do you care to discuss the cost of medicine in the US versus the rest of the world? Do you care to discuss the huge negative effect of skyrocketing cost in the US versus the rest of the world? How about the control the healthcare industry has over our elected officials (Both parties) versus the lack of control over other countries governments and policy makers?
You want to discuss Oranges and Apples but only discuss the Oranges.

 

[dblack]

I'm not sure about the 'worst disaster' part. The Civil War is right up there. But it's definitely the worst political development in my lifetime, and the worst since FDR in my view. With ACA, we've pretty much obliterated rule of law and individual rights and enshrined blatant corporatism as the status quo.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Shithead....a neo-con is a name for a former liberal than got smart and become a conservative during Bush II.

So dumbfuck....the Heritage Foundation that is full of conservatives that were "in" before Buuuuuuuush II doesn't meet the neo-con label despite how ******* stupid you are.

Now, go **** yourself.

The Heritage Foundation is a group of bullshit regurgitating Neo-cons whose only purpose is to shovel garbage into the minds of tea partiers. You can be assured that any stats or facts that they release have been massaged as much as possible to make it seem like they have a point.

 

[Greenbeard]

Yet, the 10 cent aspirin doesn't cost $10 because the government negotiated with the provider of the aspirin the cost before the fact. You do know how negotiations work, don't you?

I can't recommend enough (to anyone) Uwe Reinhardt's primer on hospital pricing in the United States: The Pricing Of U.S. Hospital Services: Chaos Behind A Veil Of Secrecy.

It's an excellent introduction to how these things actually work in practice.

 

[francoHFW]

So transparent online competition won't lead to lower costs? What channel ARE you on? LOL

Obamacare reduces competition, moron.

You're a gd brainwashed functional idiot LOL

All the fears about O-care are pure fear mongering propaganda from greedy big health and Pubs, chumps. Masscare and all other modern countries, especially the Swiss and Dutch plans which are similar, prove that.

Of course it will be improved forever. Where are the national exchanges Pubs SAID they wanted? This IS the plan they said they wanted- to ruin Clintoncare, etc. Fegging lying POSs....

 

[Freewill]

Yet, the 10 cent aspirin doesn't cost $10 because the government negotiated with the provider of the aspirin the cost before the fact. You do know how negotiations work, don't you?

I can't recommend enough (to anyone) Uwe Reinhardt's primer on hospital pricing in the United States: The Pricing Of U.S. Hospital Services: Chaos Behind A Veil Of Secrecy.

It's an excellent introduction to how these things actually work in practice.

Does Obamatax rectify any of this?

 

[Greenbeard]

Yet, the 10 cent aspirin doesn't cost $10 because the government negotiated with the provider of the aspirin the cost before the fact. You do know how negotiations work, don't you?

I can't recommend enough (to anyone) Uwe Reinhardt's primer on hospital pricing in the United States: The Pricing Of U.S. Hospital Services: Chaos Behind A Veil Of Secrecy.

It's an excellent introduction to how these things actually work in practice.

Does Obamatax rectify any of this?

Hospital pricing transparency is required by the law.

 

[Zoom]

The Heritage Foundation is a group of bullshit regurgitating Neo-cons whose only purpose is to shovel garbage into the minds of tea partiers. You can be assured that any stats or facts that they release have been massaged as much as possible to make it seem like they have a point.

What's next, an exclusive from dick morris or rassmussen?

 

[bripat9643]

So transparent online competition won't lead to lower costs? What channel ARE you on? LOL

Obamacare reduces competition, moron.

You're a gd brainwashed functional idiot LOL

All the fears about O-care are pure fear mongering propaganda from greedy big health and Pubs, chumps. Masscare and all other modern countries, especially the Swiss and Dutch plans which are similar, prove that.

How does any of that disprove what I posted?

Of course it will be improved forever. Where are the national exchanges Pubs SAID they wanted? This IS the plan they said they wanted- to ruin Clintoncare, etc. Fegging lying POSs....

Name one pub who said a thing about "national exchanges."

If that's what the pubs wanted, then why didn't a single one vote for it?

 

[sfcalifornia]

We haven't even Begun to feel the fall out from ObamaCare..it's not going to pretty..

It's made our children, grandchildren and future generations slaves to the state..

the sad part is a lot of young ones today voted for it

Did you come to that conclusion on your own through careful economic analysis or did someone just tell you that?

Don't bother answering, I already know the answer.

 

[sfcalifornia]

Obamacare reduces competition, moron.

You're a gd brainwashed functional idiot LOL

All the fears about O-care are pure fear mongering propaganda from greedy big health and Pubs, chumps. Masscare and all other modern countries, especially the Swiss and Dutch plans which are similar, prove that.

How does any of that disprove what I posted?

Of course it will be improved forever. Where are the national exchanges Pubs SAID they wanted? This IS the plan they said they wanted- to ruin Clintoncare, etc. Fegging lying POSs....

Name one pub who said a thing about "national exchanges."

If that's what the pubs wanted, then why didn't a single one vote for it?

They might not have voted for it but they'll be the first ones in line to use them, being the hypocrites they are.

 

[bripat9643]

Name one pub who said a thing about "national exchanges."

If that's what the pubs wanted, then why didn't a single one vote for it?

They might not have voted for it but they'll be the first ones in line to use them, being the hypocrites they are.

We don't have any choice about using them, asshole. Obamacare made it illegal to purchase insurance any other way.

 

[dblack]

You're a gd brainwashed functional idiot LOL

All the fears about O-care are pure fear mongering propaganda from greedy big health and Pubs, chumps. Masscare and all other modern countries, especially the Swiss and Dutch plans which are similar, prove that.

How does any of that disprove what I posted?

Of course it will be improved forever. Where are the national exchanges Pubs SAID they wanted? This IS the plan they said they wanted- to ruin Clintoncare, etc. Fegging lying POSs....

Name one pub who said a thing about "national exchanges."

If that's what the pubs wanted, then why didn't a single one vote for it?

They might not have voted for it but they'll be the first ones in line to use them, being the hypocrites they are.

That's not hypocritical at all. If I'm forced to pay for something, you can bet I'll use it - and abuse it - to the greatest extent I can muster. Even if I thought it was bad policy in the first place. You really don't understand that distinction?

 

[Greenbeard]

Obamacare reduces competition, moron.

You're a gd brainwashed functional idiot LOL

All the fears about O-care are pure fear mongering propaganda from greedy big health and Pubs, chumps. Masscare and all other modern countries, especially the Swiss and Dutch plans which are similar, prove that.

How does any of that disprove what I posted?

I was streaming some of one of the House GOP's anti-ACA subcommittee hearing about two weeks ago and Maryland's health secretary happened to be testifying. Maryland is building its own exchange and has requested that insurance carriers declare their intent to sell through the exchange late next year so they know how many to expect.

Turns out they've gotten more declarations of intent than there are insurers currently serving their individual market. More insurers, more plans, more competition in their marketplace.

Name one pub who said a thing about "national exchanges."

If that's what the pubs wanted, then why didn't a single one vote for it?

The GOP budget contained a national health insurance exchange for 30+ million seniors in 2011 and 2012 and that managed to get the vote of nearly every Republican. Seems they're not all that averse to the idea.

Though, in fairness, Ryan's '09 health reform plan was based on state-based exchanges so they're probably flexible.

 

[sfcalifornia]

Name one pub who said a thing about "national exchanges."

If that's what the pubs wanted, then why didn't a single one vote for it?

They might not have voted for it but they'll be the first ones in line to use them, being the hypocrites they are.

We don't have any choice about using them, asshole. Obamacare made it illegal to purchase insurance any other way.

The exchange is just a marketplace. You can still buy health insurance through an insurance agent or broker dumbfuck. You'll only get SUBSIDIZED healthcare through the exchange. Obama made it illegal to mooch free healthcare off the system. Deal with it cry-baby.