"Obamacare is not working"!!! ?

[HelenaHandbag]

I'm certain I pretty much said that in a different way.

Your argument, such as it is, amounts to an unsubstantive and unsubstantiated conspiracy theory, that not even a team of David Icke and Alex Jones tripping on acid could dream up.

Who is the dumb one here?

 

[Vox]

Are you Daveman or CrusaderFrank in drag, Helen? You maybe that dumb. Let me help:

an ad hominem attack is to attack the person and not their argument. It's really that simple. I called you an asshole, but you never proffered a rebuttal in the form of an argument., rather you attacked me. If you had done the right thing, I would have attacked your argument; since you didn't I concluded you are an asshole.

Your welcome.

Do you expect me to believe the Republicans are ultruistic? That's funny.

For the linguistic police as you deem yourself - it is Altruist, not Ultruist


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/altruism

You are welcome

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'm certain I pretty much said that in a different way.

Your argument, such as it is, amounts to an unsubstantive and unsubstantiated conspiracy theory, that not even a team of David Icke and Alex Jones tripping on acid could dream up.

Who is the dumb one here?

You're the dumb one. Had you made the argument posted above and not attacked me I would have respected you. As it is, I don't. It's really that simple.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

You started up with the "asshole" stuff, you bitter old man.

I merely returned fire in kind.

Now, go get a carpentry crew to work on that chip on your shoulder.

 

[Wry Catcher]

you started up with the "asshole" stuff, you bitter old man.

I merely returned fire in kind.

Now, go get a carpentry crew to work on that chip on your shoulder.

thanks for sharing

 

[The Rabbi]

you started up with the "asshole" stuff, you bitter old man.

I merely returned fire in kind.

Now, go get a carpentry crew to work on that chip on your shoulder.

thanks for sharing

If you dismiss everyone who disagrees with you with "Thanks for sharing" then there really isnt much room for debate, ya know?

 

[depotoo]

The bill has flaws, and that does not suprise me. Most every law passed by Congress is a camel when a horse was needed. Thus we have CFR's to make adjustements and mitigate the flaws. Time will tell, it would be nice if we all agreed reform was needed and worked together in making a the PPACA fair for all - that won't happen expecially when the Congress remains disfunctional.

PS Sorry for the typos and mispells - the dishwasher was leaking and I needed to repair it. Thus I rushed through the above.

Ever heard of a dictionary?

Yep. What should I do with the dictionary? Plug the leak with it or do you think if I looked up dictionaryleak it would aid my repair?

You see, we all do agree there were some problems that needed solving but we have approaches which come from different ends of the spectrum. The Reps wanted to make insurance better, how to reduce the costs of medical care, and find solutions for those that could not get it due to cost for pre-existing conditions being prohibitive. The Dems want to try to get to their ultimate goal of forcing single payor on all.

Do you expect me to believe the Republicans are ultruistic? That's funny.

are you denying the Dems ultimately want single payor? Have you ever even taken the time to read the GOP plan for health care reform?
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHealthPlan_061709.pdf
This was put out in 2009. And was ignored by most of the media.
It wanted to address those Americans that had no insurance due to inability to pay, help small businesses be able to get reasonable plan,s help cut the costs of health care and help those with pre-existing illnesses. There is more but those are the highlights. In other words it wanted to address the major problems, such as help those that couldn't afford insurance, those with pre=existing conditions. And leave alone those hundreds of millions that already did have health insurance.

Yes, they actually are altruisic- much to the chagrine of the left. It's called helping those that can't help themselves, and giving a hand up rather than just a hand out to those that can.

 

[Wry Catcher]

you started up with the "asshole" stuff, you bitter old man.

I merely returned fire in kind.

Now, go get a carpentry crew to work on that chip on your shoulder.

thanks for sharing

If you dismiss everyone who disagrees with you with "Thanks for sharing" then there really isnt much room for debate, ya know?

But I don't. Only a select few get the honor. You should be proud.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'm certain I pretty much said that in a different way.

Your argument, such as it is, amounts to an unsubstantive and unsubstantiated conspiracy theory, that not even a team of David Icke and Alex Jones tripping on acid could dream up.

Who is the dumb one here?

You pretty much did not! Your wrote (and I quote):

"Ad hominen is interjecting personal insults and invective into the conversation, which you have done and I have not. It also consists of labeling others with whom you disagree as "assholes", "callous" and being "members of the Echo Chamber".

Your second paragraph comes close, I'll grant you that, though you have no evidence my 'theory' is not true, nor do you offer a sound argument why it could not be true. And in fact in the second paragraph your call my theory an, "unsubstantive and unsubstantiated conspiracy" theory and strongly suggest I'm an even bigger liar than David Icke (who I have never heard of) and Alex Jones (who I have but have never listened to). As for being on acid I wouldn't know. Never was, never will be.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Are you Daveman or CrusaderFrank in drag, Helen? You maybe that dumb. Let me help:

an ad hominem attack is to attack the person and not their argument. It's really that simple. I called you an asshole, but you never proffered a rebuttal in the form of an argument., rather you attacked me. If you had done the right thing, I would have attacked your argument; since you didn't I concluded you are an asshole.

Your welcome.

Do you expect me to believe the Republicans are ultruistic? That's funny.

For the linguistic police as you deem yourself - it is Altruist, not Ultruist


Altruism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

You are welcome

Yep. I was wrong. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Well, it seems the PPACA is moving along, since so many posts claim the sky is falling and the crowd opposed to health care reform law is dancing the Henny Penny Polka I thought a post from a source which has supported health care reform since 1908 might provide an alternative view for the curious.

Health Policy Reform - The Commonwealth Fund

 

[MeBelle]

since people choice those plans...
Now tell me why those with cadillac plans are now going to have a 40% tax hit so most won't be able to keep those excellent plans? Thought this was all about better healthcare for all, yet those that took the time to make sure they had excellent plans will now be punished. What's up with that??

Define a "cadilac plan" and where did you get the 40% figure. Even if the policy is 40% higher how does that impact citizens given the subsidy goverment offers to both a single person and famiies?

Does their plan provide free annual physicals including labs and other tests to discover serious disease early? Or is this an expensive Dr. visit, an, expensive lab test, etc., and so something the junk policy owner might forego and potentially end up seriously ill with a huge bill?

People with "excellent plans" are punished? How do you define excellent? Do they have low co-pays, low cost medicines, and no lifetime caps? Do they not have underwriters whose duty was to protectthe pocket book of the insurance company and not the patient?

Not sure if you got this question answered or not.

How the Cadillac tax works
The way Obamacare will impose the Cadillac tax is deceptively simple. Under the law, if an individual health-insurance policy costs more than $10,200, the employer has to pay a 40% excise tax for any amount above that $10,200 threshold. For family policies, the corresponding threshold is $27,500.

How Obamacare's Cadillac Tax Will Affect You (CMI, UNH, WLP, WMT)

Obamacare's Cadillac Tax: What It Means for You (BA, UNH, WAG, WLP)
^^more current story^^

~~~~~~
Criticisms of these plans generally center on the small or nonexistent co-pays, deductibles, or caps that encourage the overuse of medical care, driving the cost up for the uninsured or those on other plans, which some say necessitates a Cadillac tax.

Cadillac insurance plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Check the prices in the ^^ link. That's about the same cost to insure a family of five in Placer County including premiums and high deductibles before receiving any benefit from ACA plans.
~~~~

Thought you may find this interesting also:
But these taxes are proving be a thorn in the sides of public-sector employers and workers, who have long understood that strong health-care benefits are often granted in lieu of less-than-stellar pay. Because the threshold is indexed to inflation_not health-care costs, which historically increase at a much faster rate_the assumption is that more plans will be subject to the tax each year. Already, it's started coming up in multiyear negotiations between governments and workers.

The Cadillac tax will be levied on health insurance companies, which many expect will pass the tax along to governments. That leaves government officials with a big decision: They can cut employees' health plans so they fall below the Cadillac threshold; pass the tax cost on to workers; or eat the tax themselves and make other budget cuts. Each choice has consequences. "Quite honestly, the decision is almost unmakeable for a local official," says Sonny Brasfield, executive director of the Association of County Commissions of Alabama.

Obamacare's Cadillac tax costly for public-sector workers

 

[Wry Catcher]

since people choice those plans...
Now tell me why those with cadillac plans are now going to have a 40% tax hit so most won't be able to keep those excellent plans? Thought this was all about better healthcare for all, yet those that took the time to make sure they had excellent plans will now be punished. What's up with that??

Define a "cadilac plan" and where did you get the 40% figure. Even if the policy is 40% higher how does that impact citizens given the subsidy goverment offers to both a single person and famiies?

Does their plan provide free annual physicals including labs and other tests to discover serious disease early? Or is this an expensive Dr. visit, an, expensive lab test, etc., and so something the junk policy owner might forego and potentially end up seriously ill with a huge bill?

People with "excellent plans" are punished? How do you define excellent? Do they have low co-pays, low cost medicines, and no lifetime caps? Do they not have underwriters whose duty was to protectthe pocket book of the insurance company and not the patient?

Not sure if you got this question answered or not.

How the Cadillac tax works
The way Obamacare will impose the Cadillac tax is deceptively simple. Under the law, if an individual health-insurance policy costs more than $10,200, the employer has to pay a 40% excise tax for any amount above that $10,200 threshold. For family policies, the corresponding threshold is $27,500.

How Obamacare's Cadillac Tax Will Affect You (CMI, UNH, WLP, WMT)

Obamacare's Cadillac Tax: What It Means for You (BA, UNH, WAG, WLP)
^^more current story^^

~~~~~~
Criticisms of these plans generally center on the small or nonexistent co-pays, deductibles, or caps that encourage the overuse of medical care, driving the cost up for the uninsured or those on other plans, which some say necessitates a Cadillac tax.

Cadillac insurance plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Check the prices in the ^^ link. That's about the same cost to insure a family of five in Placer County including premiums and high deductibles before receiving any benefit from ACA plans.
~~~~

Thought you may find this interesting also:
But these taxes are proving be a thorn in the sides of public-sector employers and workers, who have long understood that strong health-care benefits are often granted in lieu of less-than-stellar pay. Because the threshold is indexed to inflation_not health-care costs, which historically increase at a much faster rate_the assumption is that more plans will be subject to the tax each year. Already, it's started coming up in multiyear negotiations between governments and workers.

The Cadillac tax will be levied on health insurance companies, which many expect will pass the tax along to governments. That leaves government officials with a big decision: They can cut employees' health plans so they fall below the Cadillac threshold; pass the tax cost on to workers; or eat the tax themselves and make other budget cuts. Each choice has consequences. "Quite honestly, the decision is almost unmakeable for a local official," says Sonny Brasfield, executive director of the Association of County Commissions of Alabama.

Obamacare's Cadillac tax costly for public-sector workers

Thanks. I read the links, and have a question.

I looked at my family Health care costs (paid by my former employer, a California County) and their cost is $945. per month (my cost is $306 per month). Thus my employer's cost at $11,340 per year is way below the cost in your link for a family Cadillac plan.

Yet I receive free annual physicals, free preventative care (labs, colonoscopy, etc.) and $10 for each 90 day supply of meds, $10 for each doctor visit and that includes major surgery, even care in the ICU. There is no annual cap, nor any lifetime cap on the benefits.

So, I ask, who gets Cadillac plans and what is mine called?

 

[MeBelle]

Thanks. I read the links, and have a question.

I looked at my family Health care costs (paid by my former employer, a California County) and their cost is $945. per month (my cost is $306 per month). Thus my employer's cost at $11,340 per year is way below the cost in your link for a family Cadillac plan.

Yet I receive free annual physicals, free preventative care (labs, colonoscopy, etc.) and $10 for each 90 day supply of meds, $10 for each doctor visit and that includes major surgery, even care in the ICU. There is no annual cap, nor any lifetime cap on the benefits.

So, I ask, who gets Cadillac plans and what is mine called?

The total worth of your plan is $15,012 per year.
If it's a family plan it appears as though it would not be subject to the 40% tax...today.
Have your rates gone up at all since you retired?
If so, can you figure out what your plan will be worth in 2018?

You have a Cadillac plan, just not at a Cadillac price.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Thanks. I read the links, and have a question.

I looked at my family Health care costs (paid by my former employer, a California County) and their cost is $945. per month (my cost is $306 per month). Thus my employer's cost at $11,340 per year is way below the cost in your link for a family Cadillac plan.

Yet I receive free annual physicals, free preventative care (labs, colonoscopy, etc.) and $10 for each 90 day supply of meds, $10 for each doctor visit and that includes major surgery, even care in the ICU. There is no annual cap, nor any lifetime cap on the benefits.

So, I ask, who gets Cadillac plans and what is mine called?

The total worth of your plan is $15,012 per year.
If it's a family plan it appears as though it would not be subject to the 40% tax...today.
Have your rates gone up at all since you retired?
If so, can you figure out what your plan will be worth in 2018?

You have a Cadillac plan, just not at a Cadillac price.

The monthly premium has risen every year since I retired and every year ( I believe ) during my career. But so has my salary, since we generally get a COLA, both active and retired personnel.

I was thinking Cadillac plans included things like plastic surgery and other optional services such as cosmetic dermatology, ours does not.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Your saying it has commenced, because the insurance industry has begun to cancel policies. Isn't that magical thinking?

Tell me. Why have insurance companies begun cancelling policies?

I don't know, nor do you. I suspect - and it is a possibility - it is collusion among the health insurance cartel, an effort to derail the law which holds them accountable for benefits they do not want to offer.

I see you are running scared frighten out of your head at why so many people all of a sudden started losing their healthcare coverage. Can't explain it so the logical answer is I DON'T KNOW.
Well would this many people be losing their coverage if obamacare had not become law of the land?
I doubt it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Tell me. Why have insurance companies begun cancelling policies?

I don't know, nor do you. I suspect - and it is a possibility - it is collusion among the health insurance cartel, an effort to derail the law which holds them accountable for benefits they do not want to offer.

I see you are running scared frighten out of your head at why so many people all of a sudden started losing their healthcare coverage. Can't explain it so the logical answer is I DON'T KNOW.
Well would this many people be losing their coverage if obamacare had not become law of the land?
I doubt it.

That maybe true, but then 40 Million (?) people without access to health insurance would continue to be shutout as would those with a preexisting conditions including all adult children who time out.

A country with the resources of our nation ought to make health care for all citizens a priority. There are reasons beyond the obvious - that being it is the right thing to do - including the cost to treat the uninsured by public hospitals (paid for by taxpayers, BTW), the costs to business and industry do to lost productivity from illness spread by those without sick leave and without health insurance, and the suffering - both physical and emotional - of the poor, the young and the aged.

 

[starflight]

Is that Obama's fault?

 

[MeBelle]

Thanks. I read the links, and have a question.

I looked at my family Health care costs (paid by my former employer, a California County) and their cost is $945. per month (my cost is $306 per month). Thus my employer's cost at $11,340 per year is way below the cost in your link for a family Cadillac plan.

Yet I receive free annual physicals, free preventative care (labs, colonoscopy, etc.) and $10 for each 90 day supply of meds, $10 for each doctor visit and that includes major surgery, even care in the ICU. There is no annual cap, nor any lifetime cap on the benefits.

So, I ask, who gets Cadillac plans and what is mine called?

The total worth of your plan is $15,012 per year.
If it's a family plan it appears as though it would not be subject to the 40% tax...today.
Have your rates gone up at all since you retired?
If so, can you figure out what your plan will be worth in 2018?

You have a Cadillac plan, just not at a Cadillac price.

The monthly premium has risen every year since I retired and every year ( I believe ) during my career. But so has my salary, since we generally get a COLA, both active and retired personnel.

I was thinking Cadillac plans included things like plastic surgery and other optional services such as cosmetic dermatology, ours does not.

No, just like lasik surgery isn't covered.

 

[Antares]

The total worth of your plan is $15,012 per year.
If it's a family plan it appears as though it would not be subject to the 40% tax...today.
Have your rates gone up at all since you retired?
If so, can you figure out what your plan will be worth in 2018?

You have a Cadillac plan, just not at a Cadillac price.

The monthly premium has risen every year since I retired and every year ( I believe ) during my career. But so has my salary, since we generally get a COLA, both active and retired personnel.

I was thinking Cadillac plans included things like plastic surgery and other optional services such as cosmetic dermatology, ours does not.

No, just like lasik surgery isn't covered.

Elective procedures are not covered.