Obama to send U.S. Troops to Moscow to March in Parade Celebrating Stalins Red Army.

[xotoxi]

 

[Oldandtired]

Curious....

How many on this board would accept as normal if the NFL were to have a centennial celebration and included it in was a whole section on OJ Simpson?

Sure, he was a murderer later in life, but he helped put the sport on the map.

Well, sure, Stalin was a murderer later in life, but he helped defeat the enemy in WWII.

Anyone else see the hypocirsy of those that say "Without him we may have lost the war, and this is celebrating him as a war hero well BEFORE he became a murderer."

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I'm sure Stalin reigns supreme in Obama's world.

 

[Coyote]

Curious....

How many on this board would accept as normal if the NFL were to have a centennial celebration and included it in was a whole section on OJ Simpson?

Sure, he was a murderer later in life, but he helped put the sport on the map.

Well, sure, Stalin was a murderer later in life, but he helped defeat the enemy in WWII.

Anyone else see the hypocirsy of those that say "Without him we may have lost the war, and this is celebrating him as a war hero well BEFORE he became a murderer."

You can't just take Stalin out of the context of history and ignore what the event actually is about: The allied forces defeating Hitler in one of the worst wars in modern history. On top of that - it is only some in Moscow's city government that is attempting to reconstruct Stalin and that is not sufficient reason to insult Britain, France and Russia by refusing to participate.

Look at it another way: Do you refuse to respect Christmas because Christianity has close ties with horrific wars and human rights abuses? Do you teach the history of the U.S. white washed of any reference to religion's role? Some want to - but it becomes meaningless because you are removing a lot of context.

 

[Coyote]

I'm sure Stalin reigns supreme in Obama's world.

I'm sure you think so.

 

[Coyote]

If true,it's just another stupid idea from another Saul Alinsky-Marxist spawn. A Marxist indoctrinated "Community Organizer" does not = A Good President. I'm still shocked that more people haven't figured that out yet. Yikes!

Good thing we don't have a Marxist indoctrinated "Community Organizer" as President then.

But I guess you haven't figured that out yet

 

[Ravi]

Curious....

How many on this board would accept as normal if the NFL were to have a centennial celebration and included it in was a whole section on OJ Simpson?

Sure, he was a murderer later in life, but he helped put the sport on the map.

Well, sure, Stalin was a murderer later in life, but he helped defeat the enemy in WWII.

Anyone else see the hypocirsy of those that say "Without him we may have lost the war, and this is celebrating him as a war hero well BEFORE he became a murderer."

He's on their website, it says nothing about him murdering his wife...and he's still a member of the hall of fame.

Un fucking believable.

O.J. Simpson

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The twisted Saul Alinsky spawns probably love this idea but most of America does not. This is a very bad idea. Nuff said.

 

[Coyote]

The twisted Saul Alinsky spawns probably love this idea but most of America does not. This is a very bad idea. Nuff said.

Really? Got a source for that?

 

[Oldandtired]

Curious....

How many on this board would accept as normal if the NFL were to have a centennial celebration and included it in was a whole section on OJ Simpson?

Sure, he was a murderer later in life, but he helped put the sport on the map.

Well, sure, Stalin was a murderer later in life, but he helped defeat the enemy in WWII.

Anyone else see the hypocirsy of those that say "Without him we may have lost the war, and this is celebrating him as a war hero well BEFORE he became a murderer."

You can't just take Stalin out of the context of history and ignore what the event actually is about: The allied forces defeating Hitler in one of the worst wars in modern history. On top of that - it is only some in Moscow's city government that is attempting to reconstruct Stalin and that is not sufficient reason to insult Britain, France and Russia by refusing to participate.

Look at it another way: Do you refuse to respect Christmas because Christianity has close ties with horrific wars and human rights abuses? Do you teach the history of the U.S. white washed of any reference to religion's role? Some want to - but it becomes meaningless because you are removing a lot of context.

No one is saying to eliminate him from history.

We are simply saying that we do not agree with the idea of having our bravest march in his honor.....and according to what I have read and heard, it is a celebration of not only his victory, but his military leadership as well.

There were many that deserve recogniotion...and few that dont. They may have originally earned it, but in my eyes, he gave up what he earned the day he intentionally and knowingly took the life of an innocent civilian.

 

[Oldandtired]

Curious....

How many on this board would accept as normal if the NFL were to have a centennial celebration and included it in was a whole section on OJ Simpson?

Sure, he was a murderer later in life, but he helped put the sport on the map.

Well, sure, Stalin was a murderer later in life, but he helped defeat the enemy in WWII.

Anyone else see the hypocirsy of those that say "Without him we may have lost the war, and this is celebrating him as a war hero well BEFORE he became a murderer."

He's on their website, it says nothing about him murdering his wife...and he's still a member of the hall of fame.

Un fucking believable.

O.J. Simpson

That really is unbelievable....and I for one will send a letter of my disgust.
I am curious...do they have any information of the guy that sacrificed a million dolar football career by joining the reserves...and dying in battle?

What was his name? I want to see if there is any recognition of him on the site.

 

[Oldandtired]

The twisted Saul Alinsky spawns probably love this idea but most of America does not. This is a very bad idea. Nuff said.

Really? Got a source for that?

do you truly doubt that at least 51% of Americans are against it?

I did not see a poll....but I have to believe that at least 51% are against it.

 

[Coyote]

The twisted Saul Alinsky spawns probably love this idea but most of America does not. This is a very bad idea. Nuff said.

Really? Got a source for that?

do you truly doubt that at least 51% of Americans are against it?

I did not see a poll....but I have to believe that at least 51% are against it.

I would bet that if the poll were worded:

Obama to send troops to celebrate Stalin -- you would find at least 51% against it.

If it were worded:

Obama to send troops to celebrate allied victory over Hitler -- you would not.

Now which is really more accurate?

 

[Coyote]

Curious....

How many on this board would accept as normal if the NFL were to have a centennial celebration and included it in was a whole section on OJ Simpson?

Sure, he was a murderer later in life, but he helped put the sport on the map.

Well, sure, Stalin was a murderer later in life, but he helped defeat the enemy in WWII.

Anyone else see the hypocirsy of those that say "Without him we may have lost the war, and this is celebrating him as a war hero well BEFORE he became a murderer."

He's on their website, it says nothing about him murdering his wife...and he's still a member of the hall of fame.

Un fucking believable.

O.J. Simpson

That really is unbelievable....and I for one will send a letter of my disgust.
I am curious...do they have any information of the guy that sacrificed a million dolar football career by joining the reserves...and dying in battle?

What was his name? I want to see if there is any recognition of him on the site.

It is disgusting but, unfortunately I doubt the Hall of Fame can do anything about it without being sued - he was aquitted.

 

[Oldandtired]

Really? Got a source for that?

do you truly doubt that at least 51% of Americans are against it?

I did not see a poll....but I have to believe that at least 51% are against it.

I would bet that if the poll were worded:

Obama to send troops to celebrate Stalin -- you would find at least 51% against it.

If it were worded:

Obama to send troops to celebrate allied victory over Hitler -- you would not.

Now which is really more accurate?

Which is more accurate?

How could you know? It did not happen yet. But whereas the first is not accurate for sure, the second may not be telling the whole truth either.

Now, most likely, this is celebrating Russias vioctory over Germany under the leadership of Stalin.....so what makes you or anyone think there is no celebration of Stalin's leadership....and assuming there is, should our military be subject to it?

 

[rightwinger]

Curious....

How many on this board would accept as normal if the NFL were to have a centennial celebration and included it in was a whole section on OJ Simpson?

Sure, he was a murderer later in life, but he helped put the sport on the map.

Well, sure, Stalin was a murderer later in life, but he helped defeat the enemy in WWII.

Anyone else see the hypocirsy of those that say "Without him we may have lost the war, and this is celebrating him as a war hero well BEFORE he became a murderer."

He's on their website, it says nothing about him murdering his wife...and he's still a member of the hall of fame.

Un fucking believable.

O.J. Simpson

That really is unbelievable....and I for one will send a letter of my disgust.
I am curious...do they have any information of the guy that sacrificed a million dolar football career by joining the reserves...and dying in battle?

What was his name? I want to see if there is any recognition of him on the site.

Pat Tillman

NFL did a lot to commemorate his sacrifice. I don't know what they have on their site

 

[rightwinger]

do you truly doubt that at least 51% of Americans are against it?

I did not see a poll....but I have to believe that at least 51% are against it.

I would bet that if the poll were worded:

Obama to send troops to celebrate Stalin -- you would find at least 51% against it.

If it were worded:

Obama to send troops to celebrate allied victory over Hitler -- you would not.

Now which is really more accurate?

Which is more accurate?

How could you know? It did not happen yet. But whereas the first is not accurate for sure, the second may not be telling the whole truth either.

Now, most likely, this is celebrating Russias vioctory over Germany under the leadership of Stalin.....so what makes you or anyone think there is no celebration of Stalin's leadership....and assuming there is, should our military be subject to it?

I would tend to believe that it is the 75th anniversary celebration of the Allied victory over Germany. History is history and Stalin was our ally at the time. It was one of the great achievements of the US Military and we should be there in spite of petty objections from the right wing.

 

[Coyote]

do you truly doubt that at least 51% of Americans are against it?

I did not see a poll....but I have to believe that at least 51% are against it.

I would bet that if the poll were worded:

Obama to send troops to celebrate Stalin -- you would find at least 51% against it.

If it were worded:

Obama to send troops to celebrate allied victory over Hitler -- you would not.

Now which is really more accurate?

Which is more accurate?

How could you know? It did not happen yet. But whereas the first is not accurate for sure, the second may not be telling the whole truth either.

Now, most likely, this is celebrating Russias vioctory over Germany under the leadership of Stalin.....so what makes you or anyone think there is no celebration of Stalin's leadership....and assuming there is, should our military be subject to it?

I don't know, in fact I can only go by what the news says:

From the Ukranian newspaper:
U.S., British and French troops who will take part in a planned Victory Day parade on Moscow's Red Square on May 9 to mark the 65th anniversary of the Soviet victory over Nazi Germany will arrive in Moscow on April 30, a Russian deputy defense minister said. "The U.S., British and French military units will be in Moscow in the period from April 30 to May 11.


Or
Vladimir Kozhin, head of the department of Presidential affairs, announced earlier that for the first time in history of Victory parades on Red Square, Russia invited military contingents of NATO member countries, namely, France, the USA and Great Britain, to participate in the parade to celebrate the 65th anniversary of Great Victory.

Or Passions simmer over Moscow plans for Stalin V-Day - Yahoo! Canada News
where it is clear there is considerable conflict on Stalin and how he should be portrayed that raises an interesting question. When people commit great evil, do you purge them from history - even if they did some "good"? You have to teach it all - without either white wash or black wash.

The conflict in this event is the role of Stalin - but that is not the core of the event. It's the Russian people's choice of how they will commemerate it, and it is quite clearly not unified. They invited us, Britain and France. I think it would be a terrible insult to refuse to participate at all.

 

[Diuretic]

From memory the economy in the West was still fucked at that time. WWII was the stimulus it needed.

But but but but but I thought the New Deal and FDR did such a great job on the economy????

Believe it or not, "The West", is more than the US.

 

[eagleseven]

Why is this a bad idea, again?

I mean, what do we lose? It's damned impressive from an international relations standpoint, costs us virtually nothing, and serves as a reminder to the Chinese to not overreach.

If Russia is offering cooperation, we ought to accept it.