Obama says Ford Benefited from Bail outs of Competitors.

[saveliberty]

I don't know about an investigation, but several of the closed dealerships have been offered their franchise back. I would guess that the manufacturers and the government are allowing this to avoid having to admit political issues realting to the closures.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Is that you are truly dishonest, or that you just can't read? I made no claim that Rattner closed dealerships based on political reasons. Merely that he DID have the power to unilaterally close dealerships.

Unlike most of the morons on this site, I don't make a habit of stating opinions on things I don't know about , and so made no comment on the allegations because I simply don't know. I will say this though, there must be some evidence to suggest it's true or an investigation wouldn't be under way.

There is no investigation under way. There never was.

LOL - So you're just not even going to address the fact that you accused me of claiming something that I didn't claim?

And clearly several news organizations are investigating the story, and there are rumors aplenty of a government investigation as well. BUt that's doubtful since well you know the Dems control the government.

I accused you of nothing at all.

I stated that the car dealership conspiracy has been debunked. You responded that "there must be something, they're investigating it". I stated that was untrue, no investigation is under way.

Now you claim that I "accused" you of something, and you won't even admit that you were wrong about an "investigation".

 

[saveliberty]

Sound investigative enough for you Doc?

"Treasury's Push to Close Auto Dealers May Have Cost Jobs, U.S. Audit Finds
By Steve Geimann - Jul 18, 2010 2:38 PM ET
Email Share
Business ExchangeTwitterDeliciousDiggFacebookLinkedInNewsvinePropellerYahoo! BuzzPrint A U.S. review of the Obama adminstration’s order to accelerate closing of General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group LLC car dealerships concluded it’s “not at all clear” the action was necessary for the carmakers.

“It is not at all clear that the greatly accelerated pace of the dealership closings during one of the most severe economic downtowns in our nation’s history was either necessary for the sake of the companies’ economic survival or prudent for the sake of the nation’s economic recovery,” the Treasury’s inspector general for the U.S. financial bailout said today in a report.

“Treasury made a series of decisions that may have substantially contributed to the accelerated shuttering of thousands of small businesses and thereby potentially adding tens of thousands of workers to the already lengthy unemployment rolls -- all based on a theory and without sufficient consideration of the decisions’ broader economic impact,” the report said."


Treasury's Push to Close Auto Dealers May Have Cost Jobs, U.S. Audit Finds - Bloomberg

Treasury's Push to Close Auto Dealers May Have Cost Jobs, U.S. Audit Finds - Bloomberg

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Sound investigative enough for you Doc?

"Treasury's Push to Close Auto Dealers May Have Cost Jobs, U.S. Audit Finds
By Steve Geimann - Jul 18, 2010 2:38 PM ET
Email Share
Business ExchangeTwitterDeliciousDiggFacebookLinkedInNewsvinePropellerYahoo! BuzzPrint A U.S. review of the Obama adminstration’s order to accelerate closing of General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group LLC car dealerships concluded it’s “not at all clear” the action was necessary for the carmakers.

“It is not at all clear that the greatly accelerated pace of the dealership closings during one of the most severe economic downtowns in our nation’s history was either necessary for the sake of the companies’ economic survival or prudent for the sake of the nation’s economic recovery,” the Treasury’s inspector general for the U.S. financial bailout said today in a report.

“Treasury made a series of decisions that may have substantially contributed to the accelerated shuttering of thousands of small businesses and thereby potentially adding tens of thousands of workers to the already lengthy unemployment rolls -- all based on a theory and without sufficient consideration of the decisions’ broader economic impact,” the report said."


Treasury's Push to Close Auto Dealers May Have Cost Jobs, U.S. Audit Finds - Bloomberg

Treasury's Push to Close Auto Dealers May Have Cost Jobs, U.S. Audit Finds - Bloomberg

Well, I guess you're half right. It is an "investigation".

But not into what we're talking about, though. Your link says nothing about Republican Dealerships forced to close by Obama's Administration.

 

[saveliberty]

Sound investigative enough for you Doc?

"Treasury's Push to Close Auto Dealers May Have Cost Jobs, U.S. Audit Finds
By Steve Geimann - Jul 18, 2010 2:38 PM ET
Email Share
Business ExchangeTwitterDeliciousDiggFacebookLinkedInNewsvinePropellerYahoo! BuzzPrint A U.S. review of the Obama adminstration’s order to accelerate closing of General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group LLC car dealerships concluded it’s “not at all clear” the action was necessary for the carmakers.

“It is not at all clear that the greatly accelerated pace of the dealership closings during one of the most severe economic downtowns in our nation’s history was either necessary for the sake of the companies’ economic survival or prudent for the sake of the nation’s economic recovery,” the Treasury’s inspector general for the U.S. financial bailout said today in a report.

“Treasury made a series of decisions that may have substantially contributed to the accelerated shuttering of thousands of small businesses and thereby potentially adding tens of thousands of workers to the already lengthy unemployment rolls -- all based on a theory and without sufficient consideration of the decisions’ broader economic impact,” the report said."


Treasury's Push to Close Auto Dealers May Have Cost Jobs, U.S. Audit Finds - Bloomberg

Treasury's Push to Close Auto Dealers May Have Cost Jobs, U.S. Audit Finds - Bloomberg

Well, I guess you're half right. It is an "investigation".

But not into what we're talking about, though. Your link says nothing about Republican Dealerships forced to close by Obama's Administration.

Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
By: Mark Tapscott
Editorial Page Editor
05/27/09 3:37 PM EDT


Evidence appears to be mounting that the Obama administration has systematically targeted for closing Chrysler dealers who contributed to Repubicans. What started earlier this week as mainly a rumbling on the Right side of the Blogosphere has gathered some steam today with revelations that among the dealers being shut down are a GOP congressman and closing of competitors to a dealership chain partly owned by former Clinton White House chief of staff Mack McLarty.
The basic issue raised here is this: How do we account for the fact millions of dollars were contributed to GOP candidates by Chrysler who are being closed by the government, but only one has been found so far that is being closed that contributed to the Obama campaign in 2008?



Read more at the Washington Examiner: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings | Washington Examiner

I believe the figure is 88% Republican ownership of dealerships.

 

[saveliberty]

* crickets chirp *

* grass grows *

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Sound investigative enough for you Doc?

"Treasury's Push to Close Auto Dealers May Have Cost Jobs, U.S. Audit Finds
By Steve Geimann - Jul 18, 2010 2:38 PM ET
Email Share
Business ExchangeTwitterDeliciousDiggFacebookLinkedInNewsvinePropellerYahoo! BuzzPrint A U.S. review of the Obama adminstration’s order to accelerate closing of General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group LLC car dealerships concluded it’s “not at all clear” the action was necessary for the carmakers.

“It is not at all clear that the greatly accelerated pace of the dealership closings during one of the most severe economic downtowns in our nation’s history was either necessary for the sake of the companies’ economic survival or prudent for the sake of the nation’s economic recovery,” the Treasury’s inspector general for the U.S. financial bailout said today in a report.

“Treasury made a series of decisions that may have substantially contributed to the accelerated shuttering of thousands of small businesses and thereby potentially adding tens of thousands of workers to the already lengthy unemployment rolls -- all based on a theory and without sufficient consideration of the decisions’ broader economic impact,” the report said."


Treasury's Push to Close Auto Dealers May Have Cost Jobs, U.S. Audit Finds - Bloomberg

Treasury's Push to Close Auto Dealers May Have Cost Jobs, U.S. Audit Finds - Bloomberg

Well, I guess you're half right. It is an "investigation".

But not into what we're talking about, though. Your link says nothing about Republican Dealerships forced to close by Obama's Administration.

Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
By: Mark Tapscott
Editorial Page Editor
05/27/09 3:37 PM EDT


Evidence appears to be mounting that the Obama administration has systematically targeted for closing Chrysler dealers who contributed to Repubicans. What started earlier this week as mainly a rumbling on the Right side of the Blogosphere has gathered some steam today with revelations that among the dealers being shut down are a GOP congressman and closing of competitors to a dealership chain partly owned by former Clinton White House chief of staff Mack McLarty.
The basic issue raised here is this: How do we account for the fact millions of dollars were contributed to GOP candidates by Chrysler who are being closed by the government, but only one has been found so far that is being closed that contributed to the Obama campaign in 2008?



Read more at the Washington Examiner: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings | Washington Examiner

I believe the figure is 88% Republican ownership of dealerships.

Yeah, this would be the SAME ARTICLE from May of last year that has already been debunked. Notice how it doesn't say anything about an "investigation".

 

[eagleseven]

According to Obama, giving Apple $100 billion taxpayer dollars will help Microsoft?

Could he be any more ignorant of basic business principles? Did he ever run a lemonade stand as a child?

Dear God...

 

[saveliberty]

Well, I guess you're half right. It is an "investigation".

But not into what we're talking about, though. Your link says nothing about Republican Dealerships forced to close by Obama's Administration.

Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
By: Mark Tapscott
Editorial Page Editor
05/27/09 3:37 PM EDT


Evidence appears to be mounting that the Obama administration has systematically targeted for closing Chrysler dealers who contributed to Repubicans. What started earlier this week as mainly a rumbling on the Right side of the Blogosphere has gathered some steam today with revelations that among the dealers being shut down are a GOP congressman and closing of competitors to a dealership chain partly owned by former Clinton White House chief of staff Mack McLarty.
The basic issue raised here is this: How do we account for the fact millions of dollars were contributed to GOP candidates by Chrysler who are being closed by the government, but only one has been found so far that is being closed that contributed to the Obama campaign in 2008?



Read more at the Washington Examiner: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings | Washington Examiner

I believe the figure is 88% Republican ownership of dealerships.

Yeah, this would be the SAME ARTICLE from May of last year that has already been debunked.

Sorry going to need a source on that.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
By: Mark Tapscott
Editorial Page Editor
05/27/09 3:37 PM EDT


Evidence appears to be mounting that the Obama administration has systematically targeted for closing Chrysler dealers who contributed to Repubicans. What started earlier this week as mainly a rumbling on the Right side of the Blogosphere has gathered some steam today with revelations that among the dealers being shut down are a GOP congressman and closing of competitors to a dealership chain partly owned by former Clinton White House chief of staff Mack McLarty.
The basic issue raised here is this: How do we account for the fact millions of dollars were contributed to GOP candidates by Chrysler who are being closed by the government, but only one has been found so far that is being closed that contributed to the Obama campaign in 2008?



Read more at the Washington Examiner: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings | Washington Examiner

I believe the figure is 88% Republican ownership of dealerships.

Yeah, this would be the SAME ARTICLE from May of last year that has already been debunked.

Sorry going to need a source on that.

Scroll up to Post #77. Or click:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2586939-post77.html

 

[theDoctorisIn]

According to Obama, giving Apple $100 billion taxpayer dollars will help Microsoft?

Could he be any more ignorant of basic business principles? Did he ever run a lemonade stand as a child?

Dear God...

No matter what, you can always count on at least one person to make an over-simplified and completely meaningless analogy when it comes to economics.

 

[saveliberty]

Your article doesn't debunk it at all. It merely confirms that closing dealerships hurts Republican owners more than Democratic ones. Major fail on your part.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Your article doesn't debunk it at all. It merely confirms that closing dealerships hurts Republican owners more than Democratic ones. Major fail on your part.

Do you have reading comprehension problems?

There is no demographic difference between the percentage of Republican dealerships that were closed, and the total percentage of Republican-owned dealerships.

If you have problems reading that last paragraph, let me put it simply.

You have 100 green jelly beans, and 10 red ones. Your friend asks you for 10 jelly beans.
If you give him 9 green jelly beans and 1 red one, are you giving him a fair selection of jelly beans?

Now replace Jelly beans with car dealerships, and red with republicans.

Now do you see?

 

[saveliberty]

Your article doesn't debunk it at all. It merely confirms that closing dealerships hurts Republican owners more than Democratic ones. Major fail on your part.

Do you have reading comprehension problems?

There is no demographic difference between the percentage of Republican dealerships that were closed, and the total percentage of Republican-owned dealerships.

If you have problems reading that last paragraph, let me put it simply.

You have 100 green jelly beans, and 10 red ones. Your friend asks you for 10 jelly beans.
If you give him 9 green jelly beans and 1 red one, are you giving him a fair selection of jelly beans?

Now replace Jelly beans with car dealerships, and red with republicans.

Now do you see?

I see that you don't comprehend probability. In order to match the exact percentages you suggest, the distribution of the dealers would have to be identical in demographics beyond just party affiliation. That is not very likely in this case.

 

[eagleseven]

According to Obama, giving Apple $100 billion taxpayer dollars will help Microsoft?

Could he be any more ignorant of basic business principles? Did he ever run a lemonade stand as a child?

Dear God...

No matter what, you can always count on at least one person to make an over-simplified and completely meaningless analogy when it comes to economics.

You never ran a lemonade stand, either?

The blind leading the blind...

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Your article doesn't debunk it at all. It merely confirms that closing dealerships hurts Republican owners more than Democratic ones. Major fail on your part.

Do you have reading comprehension problems?

There is no demographic difference between the percentage of Republican dealerships that were closed, and the total percentage of Republican-owned dealerships.

If you have problems reading that last paragraph, let me put it simply.

You have 100 green jelly beans, and 10 red ones. Your friend asks you for 10 jelly beans.
If you give him 9 green jelly beans and 1 red one, are you giving him a fair selection of jelly beans?

Now replace Jelly beans with car dealerships, and red with republicans.

Now do you see?

I see that you don't comprehend probability. In order to match the exact percentages you suggest, the distribution of the dealers would have to be identical in demographics beyond just party affiliation. That is not very likely in this case.

The demographic that we are discussing is Party registration. No other demographic is relevant to this conversation.

Here's a breakdown of the demographics:
FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: News Flash: Car Dealers are Republicans (It's Called a Control Group, People)

 

[theDoctorisIn]

According to Obama, giving Apple $100 billion taxpayer dollars will help Microsoft?

Could he be any more ignorant of basic business principles? Did he ever run a lemonade stand as a child?

Dear God...

No matter what, you can always count on at least one person to make an over-simplified and completely meaningless analogy when it comes to economics.

You never ran a lemonade stand, either?

It's the blind leading the blind...

Do you not recognize that the bailout of Chrysler and GM may have helped Ford? Because, apparently the CEO of Ford thinks so. Read the whole thread, then you won't look like such a dumbass.

 

[Leweman]

Ford has a staggering amount of debt compared to GM and Crystler because they took out loans years earlier in order to deal with the problems occuring in the auto industry.

"
"Of course, despite Ford's success, the company is still weighted down by debt - $27.3 billion. That number is staggering when compared to General Motors Co - $8.4 billion and Chrysler Group LLC - $8.3 billion. But again, GM and Chrysler accepted the government bailout, whereas Ford took out massive loans over the last few years to keep the company afloat during the industry downturn."

GM and Crysler were able to get rid of their debt thru backrupcy and the govt baliout. Doesn't seem right to me.

 

[eagleseven]

Do you not recognize that the bailout of Chrysler and GM may have helped Ford? Because, apparently the CEO of Ford thinks so. Read the whole thread, then you won't look like such a dumbass.

If GM and Chrystler went under, Ford would win some of that market share, and thus be selling more cars and making more money. With fewer companies purchasing from the same suppliers, the cost of automobile parts and raw materials would drop, increasing profit margins for the remaining manufacturers. Not to mention, Ford could likely purchase the old GM and Chrystler plants at a heavy discount during liquidation hearings, thus dramatically growing the company.

Thus, there is no way to justify Obama's insane claim...he was talking out his ass.

---

Ford's CEO is kissing Obama's ass because he doesn't want to end up like GM's former CEO (ie fired by Obama).

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you not recognize that the bailout of Chrysler and GM may have helped Ford? Because, apparently the CEO of Ford thinks so. Read the whole thread, then you won't look like such a dumbass.

If GM and Chrystler went under, Ford would win some of that market share, and thus be selling more cars and making more money. With fewer companies purchasing from the same suppliers, the cost of automobile parts and raw materials would drop, increasing profit margins for the remaining manufacturers. Not to mention, Ford could likely purchase the old GM and Chrystler plants at a heavy discount during liquidation hearings, thus dramatically growing the company.

Thus, there is no way to justify Obama's insane claim...he was talking out his ass.

---

Ford's CEO is kissing Obama's ass because he doesn't want to end up like GM's former CEO (ie fired by Obama).

How exactly would Obama "fire" the CEO of Ford? Ford took no bailout money.