Obama Bows Before the Japanese Emperor

[Meister]

Being that they are equals...they should have had the same degree of a bow, or there abouts. When you go deep it is not just a show of respect, but is a show of being less superior. This is my understanding of the bow in Japan.
I'm not wrong Dogbert, why are you not suppose to make eye contact when bowing? I mean I'm being me and not PC when I'm stating this...but there is a reason. Do you know why?

Japanese culture dictates as little eye contact as possible. In fact, you're only suppose to have eye contact at most 25% of the time. Bowing, your eyes are suppose to be cast downward with your hands at your sides unless you are shaking hands as there are two variations for it.

You are confusing the show of respect and superiority. The Deeper and Longer the Bow, the stronger the emotion. It does not mean superiority unless you are someone of a lesser class.

What you're thinking of at a 15 degree angle is a informal bow. While an informal bow is alright for regular people, you do NOT give a informal bow to the Emperor. It's a sign of disrespect. Obama took the middle ground and gave a formal bow. He could of gone the extreme route with the very bow with the kneeling. However, Obama did not do that because he was not groveling.

The problem in this thread is ignorant people like Frank and Patek who could not get their way out of a paper bag, not even going into the topic of realizing the tradition of bowing. If I did not bring up this up, the majority of the people bitching would still be bitching about the bow in general taking place instead of the stance.

Your understanding is wrong I assume or you're assuming a different sort of bow. You are suppose to have your eyes cast downward. It is tradition overall.

As for Obama, he also threw in a variation of the bow with shaking hands. So it was a mix of a formal bow and a bow while shaking hands.

Bowing is a extremely complex thing considering the different cultures have different variations. Obama did a fine job, and this is coming from a Liberal who is disagreeing with much of his policy. In fact, today, I had debated about why we should leave Afghanistan.

I find it shameful that many of my fellow Americans give more time on this board to this issue than the issue of say, PTSD that is currently plaguing the Military. Or the fact that U.S. Army suicides are at all time high.

I did locate this, Dogbert, that seems to back up my position.

This photo will get Democrat President Obama a lot of approving nods in Japan this weekend, especially among the older generation of Japanese who still pay attention to the royal family living in its downtown castle. Very low bows like this are a sign of great respect and deference to a superior.
How low will he go? Obama gives Japan's Emperor Akihito a wow bow (Updated with video, pic) | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times

The eye contact during a bow is a sign of distrust

 

[toomuchtime_]

I have no problem with Obama bowing to the Emperor of the Sushi, I do have a problem with Obama deciding he will not fly in Air Force One to Japan but rather chose to fly on Mothora.

It is entirely understandable since Mothra is Obama's Japanese monster czar.

 

[L.K.Eder]

he said late august! ka boom

Technically it was even September since we did not start learning about Japan until midway during the third class. Beforehand it was all notes about East Asia and Asia in general.

yeah, technically the ka boom happened in the first third of august.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Here’s a good article about Japanese bowing:

The ojigi (oh-jee-ghee) or “bow” is the most visible manifestation of Japan’s traditional etiquette. It is used for both greetings and farewells, when expressing appreciation or thanks, when apologizing, when asking an important favour – and when requesting any kind of action from a government bureaucrat.

The occasion and the parties involved in an ojigi determine the kind of bow that is appropriate. The lower the bow the longer one holds the position, the stronger is the indication of respect, gratitude, sincerity, obeisance, humility, or contriteness.

Japanese Etiquette & Ethics in Business | Ojigi Politeness Makes Perfect | August 1999

I watched the youtube video and Obama clearly made the Emperor of Japan his superior......Obama should have taken "Knife and Fork School" before running for public office. For being a "Pacific President" he sure acted like a boorish buffoon this time.

 

[Modbert]

I did locate this, Dogbert, that seems to back up my position.

This photo will get Democrat President Obama a lot of approving nods in Japan this weekend, especially among the older generation of Japanese who still pay attention to the royal family living in its downtown castle. Very low bows like this are a sign of great respect and deference to a superior.
How low will he go? Obama gives Japan's Emperor Akihito a wow bow (Updated with video, pic) | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times

The eye contact during a bow is a sign of distrust

A Blog? Really Meister?

Here's my evidence:

How to Bow in Japan - Learn How to Bow Properly in Japan

The person is higher status or older than you are, you should bow deeper and longer.

Age difference, much?

And the article references the most frequent bow is the 15 degree angle bow because of the informality. Otherwise Japanese people would be having deep formal bows constantly which would be making the formal bow a bit of less importance.

How to Politely Bow in Japan | eHow.com

Make sure your eyes are open and not fixed on the other persons eyes as you bow.
Incline your torso at a 15 to 45 degree angle.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

The eye contact during a bow is a sign of distrust

Like I said...a competition or martial arts tournament.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

I did locate this, Dogbert, that seems to back up my position.

This photo will get Democrat President Obama a lot of approving nods in Japan this weekend, especially among the older generation of Japanese who still pay attention to the royal family living in its downtown castle. Very low bows like this are a sign of great respect and deference to a superior.
How low will he go? Obama gives Japan's Emperor Akihito a wow bow (Updated with video, pic) | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times

The eye contact during a bow is a sign of distrust

A BLOG? Really Meister?

Here's my evidence:

How to Bow in Japan - Learn How to Bow Properly in Japan

The person is higher status or older than you are, you should bow deeper and longer.

Age difference, much?

And the article references the most frequent bow is the 15 degree angle bow because of the informality. Otherwise Japanese people would be having deep formal bows constantly which would be making the formal bow a bit of less importance.

How to Politely Bow in Japan | eHow.com

Make sure your eyes are open and not fixed on the other persons eyes as you bow.
Incline your torso at a 15 to 45 degree angle.

Wow...did you learn all that in August during your sabbatical to Tokyo University? Or are you once again inflating your "credentials" to impress people on a message board?

I had no idea ehow.com offered courses in ancient and modern Japanese history.

 

[JW Frogen]

It is entirely understandable since Mothra is Obama's Japanese monster czar.

Personally, I would have appointed Godzilla.

But then I am a realist.

 

[Modbert]

Wow...did you learn all that in August during your sabbatical to Tokyo University? Or are you once again inflating your "credentials" to impress people on a message board?

What the fuck are you talking about? My classes started where I go to college in late August. I'm not inflating anything.

 

[Modbert]

Personally, I would have appointed Godzilla.

But then I am a realist.

How about Godzooky?

 

[Meister]

I did locate this, Dogbert, that seems to back up my position.

This photo will get Democrat President Obama a lot of approving nods in Japan this weekend, especially among the older generation of Japanese who still pay attention to the royal family living in its downtown castle. Very low bows like this are a sign of great respect and deference to a superior.
How low will he go? Obama gives Japan's Emperor Akihito a wow bow (Updated with video, pic) | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times

The eye contact during a bow is a sign of distrust

A Blog? Really Meister?

Here's my evidence:

How to Bow in Japan - Learn How to Bow Properly in Japan

The person is higher status or older than you are, you should bow deeper and longer.

Age difference, much?

And the article references the most frequent bow is the 15 degree angle bow because of the informality. Otherwise Japanese people would be having deep formal bows constantly which would be making the formal bow a bit of less importance.

How to Politely Bow in Japan | eHow.com

Make sure your eyes are open and not fixed on the other persons eyes as you bow.
Incline your torso at a 15 to 45 degree angle.

So the LA Times has been lowered to blog status huh Dogbert?

I'm just going by what some Japanese friends that I used to hang with have told me. Be it not them to know what the fuck their talking about. We talked long hours on their culture, and their food. LA Times seems to back me up, also, so I'm not going to change my position because of you Dogbert. just sayin...

 

[JW Frogen]

How about Godzooky?

I have it on good authority that this is the title of Chrisopher Hitchens next book.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Wow...did you learn all that in August during your sabbatical to Tokyo University? Or are you once again inflating your "credentials" to impress people on a message board?

What the fuck are you talking about? My classes started where I go to college in late August. I'm not inflating anything.

Right.....just as I suspected all along...still a "wet behind the ears" puppy. I will give you this...your lack of worldly experience can in no way whatsoever be made up by taking a couple of courses in Japanese history and then claiming you "know all about Japan".

You need to grow up.

 

[asaratis]

How to Bow in Japan - Learn How to Bow Properly in Japan

Let's begin learning how to bow properly in Japan. Bowing seems simple, but there are different ways of bowing. It depends on the social status or age of the person you bow to. If the person is higher status or older than you are, you should bow deeper and longer. It is polite to bow, bending from your waist. Men usually keep their hands in their sides, and women usually put their hands together on their thighs with their fingers touching. If it is a casual situation, you can bow like nodding. The most frequent bow is a bow of about 15 degrees. You might feel strange to do it, but try to bow in Japan. You will be considered very polite.

How low will he go? Obama gives Japan's Emperor Akihito a wow bow (Updated with video, pic) | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times


Top of the Ticket
Politics and commentary, coast to coast, from the Los Angeles Times
« Previous Post | Top of the Ticket Home | Next Post »
How low will he go? Obama gives Japan's Emperor Akihito a wow bow (Updated with video, pic)
November 14, 2009 | 3:38 am

(UPDATES: 12:22 p.m. A brief news video has been added below, showing the greeting in this photograph. Contrary to some claims, the video shows no reciprocal bow by the emperor, who traditionally bows to no one. And we've added a file photo from 2007 of Vice President Dick Cheney greeting the Japanese Emperor at the same residence in a different fashion.)
How low will the new American president go for the world's royalty?
This photo will get Democrat President Obama a lot of approving nods in Japan this weekend, especially among the older generation of Japanese who still pay attention to the royal family living in i ts downtown castle. Very low bows like this are a sign of great respect and deference to a superior.
To some in the United States, however, an upright handshake might have looked better. (See Cheney-Akihito photo, right).



Japanese Bowing

In Japan, people greet each other by bowing. A bow ranges from a small nod of the head to a long, 90 degree bend at the waist. If the greeting takes place on tatami floor, people get on their knees in order to bow.
When bowing to someone of higher social status, a deeper, longer bow indicates respect. Conversely, a small head nod is casual and informal. However, most Japanese do not expect foreigners to know proper bowing rules and so a nod of the head is usually sufficient.
It is also common to bow to express thanks, to apologize, to make a request or to ask someone a favor.
Shaking hands is uncommon among the Japanese, but again, exceptions are made for foreigners.

Japanese superstition

In Japan there are certain things one does not do because they are thought to cause bad luck. A few examples are:
• The number four:
The number four is considered inauspicious because it is pronounced the same as the word for death (shi). Therefore, one should not make presents that consist of four pieces, etc. In some hotels and hospitals the room number four is skipped.
• Stick chopsticks into the rice:
Do not stick your chopsicks into your food generally, but especially not into rice, because only at funerals, chopsticks are stuck into the rice which is put onto the altar.
• Give food from chopstick to chopstick:
This is only done with the bones of the cremated body at funerals.
• Sleeping towards the North:
Do not sleep towards the North beacause bodies are laid down like that.
• Funeral Car:
If a funeral car passes you should hide your thumb.
• Cut nails at night:
If you cut your nails at night, you will not be with your parents when they die.
• Lie down after eating:
If you lie down immedeately after eating, you will become a cow.
• Whistle in the night:
If you whistle in the night, a snake will come to you.
• Black cat:
There are also some imported superstitions such as the believe that black cats crossing the street in front of you cause bad luck.

 

[Modbert]

So the LA Times has been lowered to blog status huh Dogbert?

I'm just going by what some Japanese friends that I used to hang with have told me. Be it not them to know what the fuck their talking about. We talked long hours on their culture, and their food. LA Times seems to back me up, also, so I'm not going to change my position because of you Dogbert. just sayin...

Did you miss the part where the article you used was a blog post?

UPDATES: 12:22 p.m. A brief news video has been added below, showing the greeting in this photograph. Contrary to some claims, the video shows no reciprocal bow by the emperor, who traditionally bows to no one. And we've added a file photo from 2007 of Vice President Dick Cheney greeting the Japanese Emperor at the same residence in a different fashion.)

I'm not saying they don't know what they are talking about. However, you seem to be confusing what they said. Especially since you have confused an informal bow with a formal bow. I'm not expecting you to change your mind either.

 

[asaratis]

Wow...did you learn all that in August during your sabbatical to Tokyo University? Or are you once again inflating your "credentials" to impress people on a message board?

What the fuck are you talking about? My classes started where I go to college in late August. I'm not inflating anything.

If I were you, I'd ask for my tuition back. Seems they've taught you nothing.

 

[Modbert]

Right.....just as I suspected all along...still a "wet behind the ears" puppy. I will give you this...your lack of worldly experience can in no way whatsoever be made up by taking a couple of courses in Japanese history and then claiming you "know all about Japan".

You need to grow up.

Considering I just recently learned about all of this from a great professor, I'm sure I do know a great deal about this.

And if the bowing itself was not important but rather the way he did it, where were all of you before I entered this thread? Why did none of you come into this thread and point out that the bow is traditional? OWAI- I know why.

You say I need to grow up, but you need to look in the mirror. I have been using concise and concrete arguments through this thread to state my case. It's people like Frank who have been using racist comments, but I saw you let that just slide right on by.

 

[Modbert]

If I were you, I'd ask for my tuition back. Seems they've taught you nothing.

Consider this coming from the same guy who was just using the same links I used.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Right.....just as I suspected all along...still a "wet behind the ears" puppy. I will give you this...your lack of worldly experience can in no way whatsoever be made up by taking a couple of courses in Japanese history and then claiming you "know all about Japan".

You need to grow up.

Considering I just recently learned about all of this from a great professor, I'm sure I do know a great deal about this.

And if the bowing itself was not important but rather the way he did it, where were all of you before I entered this thread? Why did none of you come into this thread and point out that the bow is traditional? OWAI- I know why.

You say I need to grow up, but you need to look in the mirror. I have been using concise and concrete arguments through this thread to state my case. It's people like Frank who have been using racist comments, but I saw you let that just slide right on by.

and you have obviously failed in that lackluster endeavor. You have convinced no one other than yourself how smart you think you are.

 

[Modbert]

and you have obviously failed in that lackluster endeavor. You have convinced no one other than yourself how smart you think you are.

I'm not out to convince people who were already condemning Obama ignorantly for partaking in a tradition in Japan that is used as a sign of respect. As for the people who knew otherwise, how far he went down with the bow is all subjective. However, you do not give a 15 degree bow to the Emperor of Japan. A informal bow to the Emperor is a sign of disrespect.

And I still find it pathetic that so many of you just want to have a good ol partisan argument instead of actually talking about the issues that really matter. But that's just the way it is.