Obama At War...With His Own General

Sinatra

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Feb 5, 2009
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September 27, 2009
Obama At War With His General
By Ruben Navarrette

SAN DIEGO -- You can place a top general in Afghanistan, but you can't tell him what to think.

Call that one of President Obama's first lessons as commander in chief. The person who took the president to school on that point was Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who was named by Obama just a few months ago as the top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan.

Obama's own arguments about what to do in Afghanistan have not been very persuasive. Not even to himself. In March, he declared that the United States would prevent the return of the Taliban and "enhance the military, governance and economic capacity" of Afghanistan in order to help prevent al-Qaeda from returning and once again using the country as a launching pad for further attacks against the United States. But now the president seems to be backing off from his own hard line.

Polls show that Americans have lost their appetite for continuing the fight in Afghanistan. A recent CNN/Opinion Research poll found only 39 percent of Americans favor the war -- an all-time low -- and 58 percent are opposed to it.

And then there's the health care debate, which has worsened the relationship between Congress and the White House and stirred up a sizable amount of public discontent toward the administration. This has made it difficult for the White House to convince Americans to sign on to anything.

So no matter what Obama said in the spring, it is no surprise that many White House advisers including Vice President Joe Biden are looking for a way to leave Afghanistan. That would be a grave mistake, and an abdication of Obama's duty to keep Americans safe by preventing more acts of terrorism. More than a clumsy flip-flop on policy, it would also be an outright betrayal of the military leaders that he put in charge of the operation in Afghanistan.

According to McClatchy, some members of McChrystal's staff said they don't understand why Obama called Afghanistan a "war of necessity" but still hasn't given them the resources they need to do what is necessary.

Good question. We should all be asking the same thing.

And at least three officers at the Pentagon and in Kabul told McClatchy that McChrystal would probably resign rather than co-sign a failed policy that puts U.S. troops in danger.

McChrystal is in a tough spot. When he isn't fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, he has to combat ignorance and cowardice on the Potomac. The general might have to end his career over this. But he shouldn't back down -- not when strong leaders are in such short supply.


RealClearPolitics - Obama At War With His General
 
Why am I not surprised that this article was from a Conservative leaning site. Anything else you'd like to put up? Maybe a article from Faux? :eusa_eh:
 
Why am I not surprised that this article was from a Conservative leaning site. Anything else you'd like to put up? Maybe a article from Faux? :eusa_eh:

Whats the difference what site its from ... they are facts. :cuckoo:
 
It's the interpetation that's wrong. Bush had to relieve and retire more than half a dozen senior generals and admirals (including the Chief of Staff) to get the clones he needed to invade Iraq. Obama is head in the right direction. If the senior officer is not on board, then fire and retire him. Move on.
 
Why am I not surprised that this article was from a Conservative leaning site. Anything else you'd like to put up? Maybe a article from Faux? :eusa_eh:

Whats the difference what site its from ... they are facts. :cuckoo:


They now wish to state RCP is a conservative site? :lol:

Facts are facts - Obama has been incredibly inept in handling both Iraq and Afghanistan, Gitmo - detaining policy, etc....
 
Why am I not surprised that this article was from a Conservative leaning site. Anything else you'd like to put up? Maybe a article from Faux? :eusa_eh:

Hey man, as dissemblence goes... that is top drawer!

You completely avoided the argument; sought to discredit such through fallacious distraction and seemed to do so with what appeared to be a point of pride...

All summing to you being wholly ignorant of the issue; at least sufficiently so that you've little means to discuss it and recognize this limitation in yourself, but lack the moral courage to withold input on the subject, thus advancing a flaccid fallacious retort born from your impotent ideological underpinnings...

ROFLMNAO...


:clap2::clap2::clap2: BRAVO! :clap2::clap2::clap2:
 
It's the interpetation that's wrong. Bush had to relieve and retire more than half a dozen senior generals and admirals (including the Chief of Staff) to get the clones he needed to invade Iraq. Obama is head in the right direction. If the senior officer is not on board, then fire and retire him. Move on.

Name them.
 
Why am I not surprised that this article was from a Conservative leaning site. Anything else you'd like to put up? Maybe a article from Faux? :eusa_eh:

Whats the difference what site its from ... they are facts. :cuckoo:


They now wish to state RCP is a conservative site? :lol:

Facts are facts - Obama has been incredibly inept in handling both Iraq and Afghanistan, Gitmo - detaining policy, etc....

Well I need to contest this one Sinatra...

Hussein is doing precisely what a man whose purpose is to undermine the US GWOT, US Security and bolster to the extent of his means the means of those whose existance threatens all of the above.

Now if you assume that Hussein truly believes as you believe, then the conclusion must be that he's an idiot.

So ask yourself... Do you believe Hussein is an idiot? If the answer is: NO; then there must be another reason that a Marxist Muslim would be so painfully inept at doing what ANY America in their late 40s could do...

Which is to sum one's goals into a reasoned assessment which presents by default the end game to which one is working and begin to work a plan to reach that end.

It's not a particularly difficult job... Any American who has ever operated a small company has faced vastly more difficult circumstances...

Thus... reason is served by the certainty that the man; not being an idiot, must have considered the circumstances; he must have a goal which such consideration has manifested... and he must be working towards meeting that goal.

All we know for sure is that his goal is NOT to defeat the Taliban... because those he has hired to managed the war have proposed a plan, which worked BEAUTIFULLY, not two years ago... and is in large measure the reason for the insurgency which Afghanistan is now suffering. And he's REFUSING TO IMPLEMENT THAT PLAN, WHICH IS CERTAIN TO ACCOMPLISH THAT GOAL!

The problem here, is that the answer which is so obvious is not one which the mind is prepared to accept; because that answer bring some VERY difficult questions; the majority of which have NO pleasent answers.

So we rationalize... it's natural... not particularly productive... doesn't really serve our interests... but it's perfectly natural.
 
Whats the difference what site its from ... they are facts. :cuckoo:


They now wish to state RCP is a conservative site? :lol:

Facts are facts - Obama has been incredibly inept in handling both Iraq and Afghanistan, Gitmo - detaining policy, etc....

Well I need to contest this one Sinatra...

Hussein is doing precisely what a man whose purpose is to undermine the US GWOT, US Security and bolster to the extent of his means the means of those whose existance threatens all of the above.

Now if you assume that Hussein truly believes as you believe, then the conclusion must be that he's an idiot.

So ask yourself... Do you believe Hussein is an idiot? If the answer is: NO; then there must be another reason that a Marxist Muslim would be so painfully inept at doing what ANY America in their late 40s could do...

Which is to sum one's goals into a reasoned assessment which presents by default the end game to which one is working and begin to work a plan to reach that end.

It's not a particularly difficult job... Any American who has ever operated a small company has faced vastly more difficult circumstances...

Thus... reason is served by the certainty that the man; not being an idiot, must have considered the circumstances; he must have a goal which such consideration has manifested... and he must be working towards meeting that goal.

All we know for sure is that his goal is NOT to defeat the Taliban... because those he has hired to managed the war have proposed a plan, which worked BEAUTIFULLY, not two years ago... and is in large measure the reason for the insurgency which Afghanistan is now suffering. And he's REFUSING TO IMPLEMENT THAT PLAN, WHICH IS CERTAIN TO ACCOMPLISH THAT GOAL!

The problem here, is that the answer which is so obvious is not one which the mind is prepared to accept; because that answer bring some VERY difficult questions; the majority of which have NO pleasent answers.

So we rationalize... it's natural... not particularly productive... doesn't really serve our interests... but it's perfectly natural.

I understand the point you are making - Obama is either an incompetent, or doing exactly what he hopes to do - dismantle the foundations of America and rebuild it into something else.

Perhaps he is both?

I am quite certain Obama is not the originator of the specifics. He is the smiling face being given a script. While he generally agrees with the script, he does not entirely understand its motives, or potential outcomes - I have not seen anything in Obama resembling consistent intelligence. He is a preening political succubus caught up in plans and manipulations far beyond his own limited cognitive capability...
 
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Why am I not surprised that this article was from a Conservative leaning site. Anything else you'd like to put up? Maybe a article from Faux? :eusa_eh:

Whats the difference what site its from ... they are facts. :cuckoo:


They now wish to state RCP is a conservative site? :lol:

Facts are facts - Obama has been incredibly inept in handling both Iraq and Afghanistan, Gitmo - detaining policy, etc....

RCP has always been a conservative site.
 
Whats the difference what site its from ... they are facts. :cuckoo:


They now wish to state RCP is a conservative site? :lol:

Facts are facts - Obama has been incredibly inept in handling both Iraq and Afghanistan, Gitmo - detaining policy, etc....

RCP has always been a conservative site.
I'm just astounded, now. During the election, the BHO groupies sited RCP so often and now it's partisan.

I'm losing confidence in your willingness to be objective.
 
They now wish to state RCP is a conservative site? :lol:

Facts are facts - Obama has been incredibly inept in handling both Iraq and Afghanistan, Gitmo - detaining policy, etc....

RCP has always been a conservative site.
I'm just astounded, now. During the election, the BHO groupies sited RCP so often and now it's partisan.

I'm losing confidence in your willingness to be objective.

RCP has always been conservative. Look back at the campaign. They applied an inconsistent methodology about which polls should count.

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Real Credibility Problems
 
It's the interpetation that's wrong. Bush had to relieve and retire more than half a dozen senior generals and admirals (including the Chief of Staff) to get the clones he needed to invade Iraq. Obama is head in the right direction. If the senior officer is not on board, then fire and retire him. Move on.

Name them.

For starters, Shinseki was sacked for disagreeing with the Bush adminstration's claims about how many troops it would take for Iraq invasion.
 
RCP has always been a conservative site.
I'm just astounded, now. During the election, the BHO groupies sited RCP so often and now it's partisan.

I'm losing confidence in your willingness to be objective.

RCP has always been conservative. Look back at the campaign. They applied an inconsistent methodology about which polls should count.

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Real Credibility Problems

Rubbish.

A quick review of this very forum shows Obama supporters citing RCP poll averaging regularly. And regardless, none of which applies to the actual merits of the article, which are quite sound...
 
Whats the difference what site its from ... they are facts. :cuckoo:


They now wish to state RCP is a conservative site? :lol:

Facts are facts - Obama has been incredibly inept in handling both Iraq and Afghanistan, Gitmo - detaining policy, etc....

Well I need to contest this one Sinatra...

Hussein is doing precisely what a man whose purpose is to undermine the US GWOT, US Security and bolster to the extent of his means the means of those whose existance threatens all of the above.

Now if you assume that Hussein truly believes as you believe, then the conclusion must be that he's an idiot.

So ask yourself... Do you believe Hussein is an idiot? If the answer is: NO; then there must be another reason that a Marxist Muslim would be so painfully inept at doing what ANY America in their late 40s could do...

Which is to sum one's goals into a reasoned assessment which presents by default the end game to which one is working and begin to work a plan to reach that end.

It's not a particularly difficult job... Any American who has ever operated a small company has faced vastly more difficult circumstances...

Thus... reason is served by the certainty that the man; not being an idiot, must have considered the circumstances; he must have a goal which such consideration has manifested... and he must be working towards meeting that goal.

All we know for sure is that his goal is NOT to defeat the Taliban... because those he has hired to managed the war have proposed a plan, which worked BEAUTIFULLY, not two years ago... and is in large measure the reason for the insurgency which Afghanistan is now suffering. And he's REFUSING TO IMPLEMENT THAT PLAN, WHICH IS CERTAIN TO ACCOMPLISH THAT GOAL!

The problem here, is that the answer which is so obvious is not one which the mind is prepared to accept; because that answer bring some VERY difficult questions; the majority of which have NO pleasent answers.

So we rationalize... it's natural... not particularly productive... doesn't really serve our interests... but it's perfectly natural.

I think you give people far to much credit to assume that they can all make reasoned assessments of their goals and how to go about accomplishing them. One would certainly hope that the president is capable of doing such, but I don't share your confidence in the average person. People (and I include myself in this) tend all too often to not be reasonable, or to think through their goals.

I don't think it is what you are trying to say (I hope it isn't!) but your post seems to imply that running a small business is a far more difficult proposition than being the president and making decisions about war.

Circumstances such as these bring up a question about public opinion and how it should affect policy. Should our representatives take public opinion into account in regards to the prosecution of an ongoing war, and if so, how much? Also, how much trust should they place in polls to be an accurate indicator of what that public opinion really is?
 

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