Obama and the seeds of Fascism

[Charles_Main]

True communism has never existed. On paper its a wonderful Idea, in practice it leads to totalitarianism.

 

[Toro]

This/these are the "hooks" of which I spoke. Semantics and nothing more. The props for agitation and radical change.

"Props for agitation and radical change." You sound like a Marxist. You must be one. Anything contradicting my self-serving statement is just semantics.

Reality: both suppress religion.

The Catholic Church supported Franco.

Strong measures to separate church and state were enacted under the short-lived Second Republic, but they were nullified by the victorious Nationalists. In the early years of the Franco regime, church and state had a close and mutually beneficial association. The loyalty of the Roman Catholic Church to the Francoist state lent legitimacy to the dictatorship, which in turn restored and enhanced the church's traditional privileges

After the Second Vatican Council in 1965 set forth the church's stand on human rights, the church in Spain moved from a position of unswerving support for Franco's rule to one of guarded criticism. During the final years of the dictatorship, the church withdrew its support from the regime and became one of its harshest critics. This evolution in the church's position divided Spanish Catholics. Within the institution, right-wing sentiment, opposed to any form of democratic change, was typified by the Brotherhood of Spanish Priests, the members of which published vitriolic attacks on church reformers.

Religion in Spain - Roman Catholic Church and Politics

And Salazar

Salazar maintained his position by obtaining the support of wealthy landowners, bankers, and industrialists and by suppressing trade unions, the press, and all political opposition with the aid of his security police. In addition to resisting social and political change at home, he sent large numbers of troops to the Portuguese possessions in Africa to stem rising nationalism. Salazar held the national economy stable, however, and under his rule Portugal enjoyed moderate prosperity although it was still poor compared to the rest of Western Europe. He supported General Francisco Franco, later dictator of Spain, in the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939), and after the war the two leaders often met to discuss political questions. Salazar kept Portugal neutral during World War II (1939-1945). He was a strong supporter of the Roman Catholic church, and in 1940 he signed a concordat with the Vatican that restored property confiscated from the church by a previous government.

Salazar - MSN Encarta

And various other dictators in Latin America.

Umm. Facism does the same thing by having complete control of the economy and stipulating that your private property/raw materials/factories/etc. are only yours until the government has need of it. Facism owns its means of production by more stealthy means.

Umm shareholders benefit from profits, which are often generated by granted monopolies to the companies.

You say that the differences are semantics, that is absolutely ridiculous because in a fascist state, the profits go to the shareholders, and they go to the state under communism. Profits going to the state and profits going to private shareholders are very, very, very different things. Fascist states co-opt corporations for their own ends, but to view that as the only difference between the two and all else as "semantics" is not a serious argument.

What? Are you really this fucking daft? Is that you, Stalin?

How very quaint.

Democracy is an underlying tenant of communism as an ideology, particularly regarding the organization of capital. There is no such pretense in fascism. Communism fails as a democratic ideal, but this type of democracy is clearly spelled in communist doctrine.

Hitler did not support Franco or Moussilini? Really? Or use ethnic strife simialrly? Such as the Croats verus the Serbs? And when Fascist take over another country, are they not exporting its revolution? Sure it does.

Fascism does not have a doctrinaire impulse to spread its ideology because of its ideology. Communists believe in spreading revolution to bring down a power structure and reallocate power and wealth to a class of people. Fascists are just nasty.

The only differences are in semantics. Only a leftie loon that likes to villify "fascism" is so stupid and ignorant to assert otherwise. Both are nothing more than socialist totalitarian regimes, with nothing but a few props painted a different color to differentiate between them.

Both are totalitarian regimes but both are very different. Saying that the two are the same is like saying Islam and Christianity are the same because they are both religions and everything else is semantics.

Now, for the requisite ad hominem attack - <Ahem> Only some fringe right-wing nutbar sitting in a compound with a shotgun and canned food waiting for the black helicopters to bring the funny-speaking invaders would be so stupid an ignorant to asset otherwise. <Ahem> Was that vitriolic enough?

 

[nomdeplume]

I don't know why you keep responding regarding it. Well, actually, I do. I already know why. You are one of those leftist bigots who like to slander people with "fascist", being totally ignorant of its deep connection to communist. Quit spamming the forum with your ignorance.

 

[midcan5]

Contrary to what you learned in your terrible public schooling, there is little difference between a communist, a fascist, and a Marxist.

And that statement would indicate you have no education.

 

[Toro]

I don't know why you keep responding regarding it. Well, actually, I do. I already know why. You are one of those leftist bigots who like to slander people with "fascist", being totally ignorant of its deep connection to communist. Quit spamming the forum with your ignorance.

You should have gone to public school. If you had, perhaps you would have figured out that I was merely rebutting your simplistic argument regarding fascism and socialism, not calling anyone a fascist, as the OP does, nor that I'm a socialist or a bigot.

Stick to your bumper stickers.

 

[editec]

Show me the QUOTES, where Obama mandates obligatory social service.

I'm guessing this is pure mudlsinging bullshit, folks.

If I'm wrong, prove me worng.

 

[Charles_Main]

Show me the QUOTES, where Obama mandates obligatory social service.

I'm guessing this is pure mudlsinging bullshit, folks.

If I'm wrong, prove me worng.

I have not heard that myself, but what I do hear is him planning trillions of Dollars of new spending, with out a realistic way to pay for it.

I will say it again. The main cause of all our problems is our deficit. We need a balanced budget, it would go a long way to fixing all our problems!

Charles

 

[busara]

And in turn...increase college costs...the viscious cycle continued...

how does that work? didnt realize getting $$ for college would raise the cost of it, seeming as $$ is needed to pay for it.

 

[Chris]

I have not heard that myself, but what I do hear is him planning trillions of Dollars of new spending, with out a realistic way to pay for it.

I will say it again. The main cause of all our problems is our deficit. We need a balanced budget, it would go a long way to fixing all our problems!

Charles

Reagan and Bush increased the debt more than any other presidents by cutting taxes and increasing spending. Check out this graph....

U.S. National Debt Graph

 

[nomdeplume]

Reagan and Bush increased the debt more than any other presidents by cutting taxes and increasing spending. Check out this graph....

U.S. National Debt Graph

You do know you are basically linking a random idiot's blog, right?

 

[midcan5]

You do know you are basically linking a random idiot's blog, right?

Pot meet kettle - you must be kidding the BS sites you post.

"In 1988 after 8 years of Reagonomics the U.S. switched from the largest Creditor Nation to the largest Debtor nation."

"He knows less about the budget than any president in my lifetime. He can't even carry on a conversation about the budget. It's an absolute and utter disgrace." House Speaker Tip O'Neill, after a meeting with Reagan, November 23, 1981


Economic Policy - The Reagan Years

 

[Diuretic]

Contrary to what you learned in your terrible public schooling, there is little difference between a communist, a fascist, and a Marxist.

Maybe you'd like to explain the "little" differences?

 

[Diuretic]

I have not heard that myself, but what I do hear is him planning trillions of Dollars of new spending, with out a realistic way to pay for it.

I will say it again. The main cause of all our problems is our deficit. We need a balanced budget, it would go a long way to fixing all our problems!

Charles

lol - trillions of dollars of new spending? Who's he going to invade? I thought Bush pissed your economy down the Iraq drain?

 

[jreeves]

lol - trillions of dollars of new spending? Who's he going to invade? I thought Bush pissed your economy down the Iraq drain?

Obama will invade American's wallets with tax increases.

 

[editec]

So this charge is nothing more partisan rumor mongering.

Clutching at straws, the neo-cons are.

 

[Taomon]

Obama, former community organizer in Chicago, now wants to organize the entire country. BO wants to establish a civil national defense force….along with all kinds of national community services monitored by the federal government….even requiring students to serve a set number of hours in service to the government….

....couching all this in his new "patriotism" of course…kinda like a draft for the non-military…gee, maybe we can call this "The Peoples Army"….and maybe we can wear red scarves and blue or brown shirts…while running around doing the bidding of THE STATE…and btw...where are the billion$ for all this going to come from...?

And Bush has allowed Blackwater to become an Emergency Response Security force. I will side with the efforts that brings us closer together and get us involved in civic matters as opposed to having an armed militia doing the bidding of questionable people.