Nunes Memo Prediction Thread

[Skylar]

Unless they are acussed of an ACTUAL CRIME and they have EVIDENCE OF IT like Bill Clinton Had against him Then you have to testify. They just couldn't pin enough on him, because well....the guy who KNEW and could testify to the crimes murdered himself, and others chose to go to jail rather than Rat out Bill and Hillary.

No one will go to Jail from The Trump Administration, like they went to jail from The Clinton Administration.

President Trump can do what he wants, but Unlike Bill Clinton who was forced to testify and was impeached, they cannot force President Trump to testify because there are no criminal charges being investigated, nor are any criminal indictments being submitted to him or his attorneys that implicate or indicate The President.

impeachment does not mean remove from office. to be removed from office there needs to be a 2/3 vote in the senate. Never gonna happen ever.

I know what impeachment is. I am just telling Lefty that Mueller's Witch Hunt is not even going to get close enough to even remotely attempt that. No High Crime... No Misdemeanors. That is the standard for Impeachment.

This was Mueller's Mandate. To try to catch anybody, anyone contradicting themselves over LEGAL and PERMISSIBLE ACTIONS when they are Interrogated over DOCUMENTED and WRITTEN DISCLOSURES about LEGAL ACTIONS which they are FORCED TO RECALL VERBALLY.

yep, totally understand. The fact remains however, that impeaching a president does not remove him from office. all I'm saying. It takes a 2/3 majority of the senate to remove him, and that ain't gonna happen.

Comey, Mueller, and THE ENTIRE FBI KNEW that there was NO RUSSIAN COLLUSION and even said so in their PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS, so this is a Political Assassination, a Hit Job, and TREASONOUS COUP, and it is time TO END IT.

...and not end it nicely either

Smiling....what do you suggest, Frank?

If you won't even say it, surely you realize you can't get it enacted.

 

[playtime]

They admitted they lied to the FBI about contacts between the Trump team.....and Russia. And now they're discussing who *ordered* them to make contacts with the Russians.

dude, they are allowed to contact russia. so you still haven't given anything accept they lied. try again. and try harder.

I've given you that they've lied to the FBI. And *what* they lied about: Trump team contacts with Russia.

That there are crimes in the Trump team is undeniable. That these crimes are immediately related to Russia is undeniable.

Which is why Mueller's investigation will continue.

nothing you wrote is a crime. nor is any other thing you wrote here in this thread. you lose. what is it you think you're going o do? do you know how a president gets removed from office? let us see what you actually know. so far nothing. it's all legal that has been investigated.

She's posted there's evidence Trump obstructed justice. Personally, I think Mueller has evidence of Trump and Russia doing a quid pro quo for help against Hillary, and that would not only be a crime, but arguably he illegally flipped an election, AND we already know he fired Comey when he knew Comey was investigating his ties to Russia. That's the obstruction.

Even so, he's not going to be impeached.

What EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION?

Please CITE THE EVIDENCE of Obstruction.
Please CITE US CODE that indicates specifically what High Crime or Misdemeanor Trump is being accused of committing.

Thank you for your cooperation

Sincerely,

Just The Facts Mam

Dearest Twiggy,

Mueller is on the job & will bring you everything there is to be needed for a slew of hurt befalling president tinkles; you just wait.

Sincerely,
the Constitution.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

impeachment does not mean remove from office. to be removed from office there needs to be a 2/3 vote in the senate. Never gonna happen ever.

I know what impeachment is. I am just telling Lefty that Mueller's Witch Hunt is not even going to get close enough to even remotely attempt that. No High Crime... No Misdemeanors. That is the standard for Impeachment.

This was Mueller's Mandate. To try to catch anybody, anyone contradicting themselves over LEGAL and PERMISSIBLE ACTIONS when they are Interrogated over DOCUMENTED and WRITTEN DISCLOSURES about LEGAL ACTIONS which they are FORCED TO RECALL VERBALLY.

yep, totally understand. The fact remains however, that impeaching a president does not remove him from office. all I'm saying. It takes a 2/3 majority of the senate to remove him, and that ain't gonna happen.

Comey, Mueller, and THE ENTIRE FBI KNEW that there was NO RUSSIAN COLLUSION and even said so in their PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS, so this is a Political Assassination, a Hit Job, and TREASONOUS COUP, and it is time TO END IT.

...and not end it nicely either

Smiling....what do you suggest, Frank?

If you won't even say it, surely you realize you can't get it enacted.

Sedition and treason never end well for the conspirators when the coup fails.

 

[bendog]

nothing you wrote is a crime. nor is any other thing you wrote here in this thread. you lose. what is it you think you're going o do? do you know how a president gets removed from office? let us see what you actually know. so far nothing. it's all legal that has been investigated.

She's posted there's evidence Trump obstructed justice. Personally, I think Mueller has evidence of Trump and Russia doing a quid pro quo for help against Hillary, and that would not only be a crime, but arguably he illegally flipped an election, AND we already know he fired Comey when he knew Comey was investigating his ties to Russia. That's the obstruction.

Even so, he's not going to be impeached.

What EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION?

Please CITE THE EVIDENCE of Obstruction.
Please CITE US CODE that indicates specifically what High Crime or Misdemeanor Trump is being accused of committing.

Thank you for your cooperation

Sincerely,

Just The Facts Mam

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

Lying to hide contacts with Russia would most definitely fall into the 'pattern of behavior' standard used to establish criminal intent.

Yes, but there must also be an evil intent to the lie. Trump can say the Russia investigation was damaging his ability to influence legislation and voters, and that's true. Firing Comey and ordering the investigation stopped and wanting to end Flynn's prosecution can all fit that, and would not be illegal. Of course, Trump's motivation might also be to hide his complicity with Russia hacking, and that would be illegal ... and the actions you list would then be obstruction.

If Trump asked Jr to parrot the lies about the Russian Spy meeting under oath, that's a crime right there, regardless of whether Trump did anything illegal in the campaign.

But regardless of what there is, I absolutely agree with you that there's more than enough already there to require Mueller finish the job and report. IF Mueller concludes there's a case for obtstruction, he can say what facts support finding a criminal intent to coverup a crime.

I'm convinced there must be more, because jmo if Mueller didn't have something showing an underlying crime with Russia, he'd have closed up shop. It's harder to prove an evil intent to specifically coverup a crime, when there's also an explanation of wanting an investigation stopped because it detracted from Trump's power to do stuff. The question, imo, is whether the more is something Flynn or Papandopolis said they heard, or whether there's physical evidence, like in an email

PS, I forgot to add the link. It’s Now Likely Mueller Thinks Trump Obstructed Justice

 

[Skylar]

She's posted there's evidence Trump obstructed justice. Personally, I think Mueller has evidence of Trump and Russia doing a quid pro quo for help against Hillary, and that would not only be a crime, but arguably he illegally flipped an election, AND we already know he fired Comey when he knew Comey was investigating his ties to Russia. That's the obstruction.

Even so, he's not going to be impeached.

What EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION?

Please CITE THE EVIDENCE of Obstruction.
Please CITE US CODE that indicates specifically what High Crime or Misdemeanor Trump is being accused of committing.

Thank you for your cooperation

Sincerely,

Just The Facts Mam

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

Lying to hide contacts with Russia would most definitely fall into the 'pattern of behavior' standard used to establish criminal intent.

Yes, but there must also be an evil intent to the lie. Trump can say the Russia investigation was damaging his ability to influence legislation and voters, and that's true. Firing Comey and ordering the investigation stopped and wanting to end Flynn's prosecution can all fit that, and would not be illegal. Of course, Trump's motivation might also be to hide his complicity with Russia hacking, and that would be illegal ... and the actions you list would then be obstruction.

If Trump asked Jr to parrot the lies about the Russian Spy meeting under oath, that's a crime right there, regardless of whether Trump did anything illegal in the campaign.

But regardless of what there is, I absolutely agree with you that there's more than enough already there to require Mueller finish the job and report. IF Mueller concludes there's a case for obtstruction, he can say what facts support finding a criminal intent to coverup a crime.

I'm convinced there must be more, because jmo if Mueller didn't have something showing an underlying crime with Russia, he'd have closed up shop. It's harder to prove an evil intent to specifically coverup a crime, when there's also an explanation of wanting an investigation stopped because it detracted from Trump's power to do stuff. The question, imo, is whether the more is something Flynn or Papandopolis said they heard, or whether there's physical evidence, like in an email

PS, I forgot to add the link. It’s Now Likely Mueller Thinks Trump Obstructed Justice

I disagree on closing up shop. Clinton was busted on lying about a blowjob by a special counsel seated to investigate a real estate deal. If evidence of related crimes are discovered, the special counsel will pursue those as well.

 

[jc456]

She's posted there's evidence Trump obstructed justice. Personally, I think Mueller has evidence of Trump and Russia doing a quid pro quo for help against Hillary, and that would not only be a crime, but arguably he illegally flipped an election, AND we already know he fired Comey when he knew Comey was investigating his ties to Russia. That's the obstruction.

Even so, he's not going to be impeached.

What EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION?

Please CITE THE EVIDENCE of Obstruction.
Please CITE US CODE that indicates specifically what High Crime or Misdemeanor Trump is being accused of committing.

Thank you for your cooperation

Sincerely,

Just The Facts Mam

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

Lying to hide contacts with Russia would most definitely fall into the 'pattern of behavior' standard used to establish criminal intent.

Yes, but there must also be an evil intent to the lie. Trump can say the Russia investigation was damaging his ability to influence legislation and voters, and that's true. Firing Comey and ordering the investigation stopped and wanting to end Flynn's prosecution can all fit that, and would not be illegal. Of course, Trump's motivation might also be to hide his complicity with Russia hacking, and that would be illegal ... and the actions you list would then be obstruction.

If Trump asked Jr to parrot the lies about the Russian Spy meeting under oath, that's a crime right there, regardless of whether Trump did anything illegal in the campaign.

But regardless of what there is, I absolutely agree with you that there's more than enough already there to require Mueller finish the job and report. IF Mueller concludes there's a case for obtstruction, he can say what facts support finding a criminal intent to coverup a crime.

I'm convinced there must be more, because jmo if Mueller didn't have something showing an underlying crime with Russia, he'd have closed up shop. It's harder to prove an evil intent to specifically coverup a crime, when there's also an explanation of wanting an investigation stopped because it detracted from Trump's power to do stuff. The question, imo, is whether the more is something Flynn or Papandopolis said they heard, or whether there's physical evidence, like in an email

PS, I forgot to add the link. It’s Now Likely Mueller Thinks Trump Obstructed Justice

dude, there is nothing there. end the investigation and give our money back. there is no crime to get info on your opponent. none, doesn't matter where it comes from. my gawd, why you acting so stupid?

Unless mueller said anything there is absolutely nothing. presumption is someone's smoking dream. LOL. I thought you were better than that. oh well another leftist I guess. you can say you're not, but this one post demonstrates otherwise.

 

[Skylar]

I know what impeachment is. I am just telling Lefty that Mueller's Witch Hunt is not even going to get close enough to even remotely attempt that. No High Crime... No Misdemeanors. That is the standard for Impeachment.

This was Mueller's Mandate. To try to catch anybody, anyone contradicting themselves over LEGAL and PERMISSIBLE ACTIONS when they are Interrogated over DOCUMENTED and WRITTEN DISCLOSURES about LEGAL ACTIONS which they are FORCED TO RECALL VERBALLY.

yep, totally understand. The fact remains however, that impeaching a president does not remove him from office. all I'm saying. It takes a 2/3 majority of the senate to remove him, and that ain't gonna happen.

Comey, Mueller, and THE ENTIRE FBI KNEW that there was NO RUSSIAN COLLUSION and even said so in their PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS, so this is a Political Assassination, a Hit Job, and TREASONOUS COUP, and it is time TO END IT.

...and not end it nicely either

Smiling....what do you suggest, Frank?

If you won't even say it, surely you realize you can't get it enacted.

Sedition and treason never end well for the conspirators when the coup fails.

Smiling.....and what punishment would you insist be implemented for sedition and treason?

By all means, be specific. Again, if you can't even say, there's zero chance you'll be able to do it.

 

[jc456]

What EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION?

Please CITE THE EVIDENCE of Obstruction.
Please CITE US CODE that indicates specifically what High Crime or Misdemeanor Trump is being accused of committing.

Thank you for your cooperation

Sincerely,

Just The Facts Mam

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

Lying to hide contacts with Russia would most definitely fall into the 'pattern of behavior' standard used to establish criminal intent.

Yes, but there must also be an evil intent to the lie. Trump can say the Russia investigation was damaging his ability to influence legislation and voters, and that's true. Firing Comey and ordering the investigation stopped and wanting to end Flynn's prosecution can all fit that, and would not be illegal. Of course, Trump's motivation might also be to hide his complicity with Russia hacking, and that would be illegal ... and the actions you list would then be obstruction.

If Trump asked Jr to parrot the lies about the Russian Spy meeting under oath, that's a crime right there, regardless of whether Trump did anything illegal in the campaign.

But regardless of what there is, I absolutely agree with you that there's more than enough already there to require Mueller finish the job and report. IF Mueller concludes there's a case for obtstruction, he can say what facts support finding a criminal intent to coverup a crime.

I'm convinced there must be more, because jmo if Mueller didn't have something showing an underlying crime with Russia, he'd have closed up shop. It's harder to prove an evil intent to specifically coverup a crime, when there's also an explanation of wanting an investigation stopped because it detracted from Trump's power to do stuff. The question, imo, is whether the more is something Flynn or Papandopolis said they heard, or whether there's physical evidence, like in an email

PS, I forgot to add the link. It’s Now Likely Mueller Thinks Trump Obstructed Justice

I disagree on closing up shop. Clinton was busted on lying about a blowjob by a special counsel seated to investigate a real estate deal. If evidence of related crimes are discovered, the special counsel will pursue those as well.

he lied under oath. duh!!!!

 

[Skylar]

What EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION?

Please CITE THE EVIDENCE of Obstruction.
Please CITE US CODE that indicates specifically what High Crime or Misdemeanor Trump is being accused of committing.

Thank you for your cooperation

Sincerely,

Just The Facts Mam

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

Lying to hide contacts with Russia would most definitely fall into the 'pattern of behavior' standard used to establish criminal intent.

Yes, but there must also be an evil intent to the lie. Trump can say the Russia investigation was damaging his ability to influence legislation and voters, and that's true. Firing Comey and ordering the investigation stopped and wanting to end Flynn's prosecution can all fit that, and would not be illegal. Of course, Trump's motivation might also be to hide his complicity with Russia hacking, and that would be illegal ... and the actions you list would then be obstruction.

If Trump asked Jr to parrot the lies about the Russian Spy meeting under oath, that's a crime right there, regardless of whether Trump did anything illegal in the campaign.

But regardless of what there is, I absolutely agree with you that there's more than enough already there to require Mueller finish the job and report. IF Mueller concludes there's a case for obtstruction, he can say what facts support finding a criminal intent to coverup a crime.

I'm convinced there must be more, because jmo if Mueller didn't have something showing an underlying crime with Russia, he'd have closed up shop. It's harder to prove an evil intent to specifically coverup a crime, when there's also an explanation of wanting an investigation stopped because it detracted from Trump's power to do stuff. The question, imo, is whether the more is something Flynn or Papandopolis said they heard, or whether there's physical evidence, like in an email

PS, I forgot to add the link. It’s Now Likely Mueller Thinks Trump Obstructed Justice

dude, there is nothing there. end the investigation and give our money back. there is no crime to get info on your opponent. none, doesn't matter where it comes from. my gawd, why you acting so stupid?

Unless mueller said anything there is absolutely nothing. presumption is someones smoking dream. LOL. I thought you were better than that. oh well another leftist I guess. you can say you're not, but this one post demonstrates otherwise.

There are undeniably crimes there. The only questions now are....how many, by whom and how severe?

And that's what Mueller is investigating. Productively, with 4 indictments and 2 guilty pleas.

Again, the more indictments and guilty pleas the more your ilk will insist the investigation be shut down immediately.

 

[The Original Tree]

I've given you that they've lied to the FBI. And *what* they lied about: Trump team contacts with Russia.

That there are crimes in the Trump team is undeniable. That these crimes are immediately related to Russia is undeniable.

Which is why Mueller's investigation will continue.

nothing you wrote is a crime. nor is any other thing you wrote here in this thread. you lose. what is it you think you're going o do? do you know how a president gets removed from office? let us see what you actually know. so far nothing. it's all legal that has been investigated.

She's posted there's evidence Trump obstructed justice. Personally, I think Mueller has evidence of Trump and Russia doing a quid pro quo for help against Hillary, and that would not only be a crime, but arguably he illegally flipped an election, AND we already know he fired Comey when he knew Comey was investigating his ties to Russia. That's the obstruction.

Even so, he's not going to be impeached.

What EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION?

Please CITE THE EVIDENCE of Obstruction.
Please CITE US CODE that indicates specifically what High Crime or Misdemeanor Trump is being accused of committing.

Thank you for your cooperation

Sincerely,

Just The Facts Mam

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

LOL that is easy. You use the Comey standard of INTENT which is NO STANDARD AT ALL

Mueller: "Mr. President, why did you fire James Comey?"

Mr. President: "James Comey was negligent in his duties following standard FBI procedures when interviewing the targets of an investigation. Furthermore James Comey did not carry out his duties with regards to enforcing US Code 18 - 798."

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;

The terms “code,” “cipher,” and “cryptographic system” include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications;

The term “foreign government” includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States;

The term “communication intelligence” means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients;

The term “unauthorized person” means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States.

United States of America, or joint committee thereof.
person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law—
person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and
person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation.
United States all property described in paragraph (1).
21 U.S.C. 853(b), (c), and (e)–(p)), shall apply to—
section 524(c) of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund established under section 1402 of the Victims of Crime Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10601) [1] all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law.
State” means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any territory or possession of the United State


Mueller: "Mr. President did you have any other motives you would like to disclose now concerning the firing of James Comey other than USC 18 - 798?"

Mr. President: "James Comey was negligent with regards to his duties to enforce US Code 18 - 1924"

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

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  • US Code
  • Notes

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Any employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
offense under subsection (a).
classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.

Mueller: "Um....okay Mr. President, I am going to ask this question again. Did you have any other reasons other than firing James Comey other than US Code 18 - 798 and US Code 18 - 1924?"

Mr. President: "Yes in fact I did!" James Comey was negligent in carrying out his duties in enforcing US Code 18 - 873"

Mueller: "Mr. President, I don't believe that has any relation to this issue. Who could possibly have been trying to black mail you?" And with a smirk, he looks at The President, and says, "The Russians?"

Mr. President: "No James Comey! James Comey not only failed to enforce the law with regards to US Code 18 - 873, he also did not report the black mail attempt, which is an additional violation of both the law and FBI Policy and He also failed to arrest, have indicted and prosecute the offender.

Had James Comey immediately ordered to have himself carried away in handcuffs after he threatened to expose the Fake Fusion GPS Russian Dossier to the media in an attempt to hold that over my head in order to pressure me to allow him to keep his job, I would never have had to fire him!" He said he wasn't going anywhere! I guess he was WRONGGGGGG!"

18 U.S. Code § 873 - Blackmail

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  • US Code
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Whoever, under a threat of informing, or as a consideration for not informing, against any violation of any law of the United States, demands or receives any money or other valuable thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(I), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

 

[Skylar]

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

Lying to hide contacts with Russia would most definitely fall into the 'pattern of behavior' standard used to establish criminal intent.

Yes, but there must also be an evil intent to the lie. Trump can say the Russia investigation was damaging his ability to influence legislation and voters, and that's true. Firing Comey and ordering the investigation stopped and wanting to end Flynn's prosecution can all fit that, and would not be illegal. Of course, Trump's motivation might also be to hide his complicity with Russia hacking, and that would be illegal ... and the actions you list would then be obstruction.

If Trump asked Jr to parrot the lies about the Russian Spy meeting under oath, that's a crime right there, regardless of whether Trump did anything illegal in the campaign.

But regardless of what there is, I absolutely agree with you that there's more than enough already there to require Mueller finish the job and report. IF Mueller concludes there's a case for obtstruction, he can say what facts support finding a criminal intent to coverup a crime.

I'm convinced there must be more, because jmo if Mueller didn't have something showing an underlying crime with Russia, he'd have closed up shop. It's harder to prove an evil intent to specifically coverup a crime, when there's also an explanation of wanting an investigation stopped because it detracted from Trump's power to do stuff. The question, imo, is whether the more is something Flynn or Papandopolis said they heard, or whether there's physical evidence, like in an email

PS, I forgot to add the link. It’s Now Likely Mueller Thinks Trump Obstructed Justice

I disagree on closing up shop. Clinton was busted on lying about a blowjob by a special counsel seated to investigate a real estate deal. If evidence of related crimes are discovered, the special counsel will pursue those as well.

he lied under oath. duh!!!!

You're clearly not following the conversation. We're discussing how a special counsel can follow crimes found in the course of an investigation. Ken Starr was seated to investigate Whitewater, a real estate deal.

 

[Skylar]

nothing you wrote is a crime. nor is any other thing you wrote here in this thread. you lose. what is it you think you're going o do? do you know how a president gets removed from office? let us see what you actually know. so far nothing. it's all legal that has been investigated.

She's posted there's evidence Trump obstructed justice. Personally, I think Mueller has evidence of Trump and Russia doing a quid pro quo for help against Hillary, and that would not only be a crime, but arguably he illegally flipped an election, AND we already know he fired Comey when he knew Comey was investigating his ties to Russia. That's the obstruction.

Even so, he's not going to be impeached.

What EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION?

Please CITE THE EVIDENCE of Obstruction.
Please CITE US CODE that indicates specifically what High Crime or Misdemeanor Trump is being accused of committing.

Thank you for your cooperation

Sincerely,

Just The Facts Mam

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

LOL that is easy. You use the Comey standard of INTENT which is NO STANDARD AT ALL

Mueller: "Mr. President, why did you fire James Comey?"

Mr. President: "James Comey was negligent in his duties following standard FBI procedures when interviewing the targets of an investigation. Furthermore James Comey did not carry out his duties with regards to enforcing US Code 18 - 798."

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;

The terms “code,” “cipher,” and “cryptographic system” include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications;

The term “foreign government” includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States;

The term “communication intelligence” means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients;

The term “unauthorized person” means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States.

United States of America, or joint committee thereof.
person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law—
person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and
person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation.
United States all property described in paragraph (1).
21 U.S.C. 853(b), (c), and (e)–(p)), shall apply to—
section 524(c) of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund established under section 1402 of the Victims of Crime Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10601) [1] all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law.
State” means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any territory or possession of the United State


Mueller: "Mr. President did you have any other motives you would like to disclose now concerning the firing of James Comey other than USC 18 - 798?"

Mr. President: "James Comey was negligent with regards to his duties to enforce US Code 18 - 1924"

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

• 
  
  • US Code
  • Notes

prev | next
employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
offense under subsection (a).
classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.

Mueller: "Um....okay Mr. President, I am going to ask this question again. Did you have any other reasons other than firing James Comey US Code 18 - 798 and US Code 18 - 1924?"

Mr. President: "Yes in fact I did!" James Comey was negligent in carrying out his duties in enforcing US Code 18 - 873"

Mueller: "Mr. President, I don't believe that has any relation to this issue. Who could possibly have been trying to black mail you?" And with a smirk, he looks at The President, and says, "The Russians"

Mr. President: "No James Comey! James Comey not only failed to enforce the law with regards to US Code 18 - 873, he also did not report the black mail attempt, which is an additional violation of both the law and FBI Policy and He also failed to arrest, have indicted and prosecute the offender. Had James Comey immediately ordered to have himself carried away in handcuffs after he threatened to expose the Fake Fusion GPS Russian Dossier in an attempt to hold that over my head in order to pressure me to allow him to keep his job, I would never have had to fire him!"

18 U.S. Code § 873 - Blackmail

• 
  
  • US Code
  • Notes

prev | next
Whoever, under a threat of informing, or as a consideration for not informing, against any violation of any law of the United States, demands or receives any money or other valuable thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(I), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

The problem with that approach...is that Trump has already completely boned himself admitting that he fired Comey because of the Russia Investigation.

"And in fact when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said 'you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story, it's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won'."

Donald Trump

But hey, ignore what Trump actually said and replace it with your imagination. Mueller won't.

 

[jc456]

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

Lying to hide contacts with Russia would most definitely fall into the 'pattern of behavior' standard used to establish criminal intent.

Yes, but there must also be an evil intent to the lie. Trump can say the Russia investigation was damaging his ability to influence legislation and voters, and that's true. Firing Comey and ordering the investigation stopped and wanting to end Flynn's prosecution can all fit that, and would not be illegal. Of course, Trump's motivation might also be to hide his complicity with Russia hacking, and that would be illegal ... and the actions you list would then be obstruction.

If Trump asked Jr to parrot the lies about the Russian Spy meeting under oath, that's a crime right there, regardless of whether Trump did anything illegal in the campaign.

But regardless of what there is, I absolutely agree with you that there's more than enough already there to require Mueller finish the job and report. IF Mueller concludes there's a case for obtstruction, he can say what facts support finding a criminal intent to coverup a crime.

I'm convinced there must be more, because jmo if Mueller didn't have something showing an underlying crime with Russia, he'd have closed up shop. It's harder to prove an evil intent to specifically coverup a crime, when there's also an explanation of wanting an investigation stopped because it detracted from Trump's power to do stuff. The question, imo, is whether the more is something Flynn or Papandopolis said they heard, or whether there's physical evidence, like in an email

PS, I forgot to add the link. It’s Now Likely Mueller Thinks Trump Obstructed Justice

dude, there is nothing there. end the investigation and give our money back. there is no crime to get info on your opponent. none, doesn't matter where it comes from. my gawd, why you acting so stupid?

Unless mueller said anything there is absolutely nothing. presumption is someones smoking dream. LOL. I thought you were better than that. oh well another leftist I guess. you can say you're not, but this one post demonstrates otherwise.

There are undeniably crimes there. The only questions now are....how many, by whom and how severe?

And that's what Mueller is investigating. Productively, with 4 indictments and 2 guilty pleas.

Again, the more indictments and guilty pleas the more your ilk will insist the investigation be shut down immediately.

There are undeniably crimes there

not in the US. so what's next?

 

[jc456]

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

Lying to hide contacts with Russia would most definitely fall into the 'pattern of behavior' standard used to establish criminal intent.

Yes, but there must also be an evil intent to the lie. Trump can say the Russia investigation was damaging his ability to influence legislation and voters, and that's true. Firing Comey and ordering the investigation stopped and wanting to end Flynn's prosecution can all fit that, and would not be illegal. Of course, Trump's motivation might also be to hide his complicity with Russia hacking, and that would be illegal ... and the actions you list would then be obstruction.

If Trump asked Jr to parrot the lies about the Russian Spy meeting under oath, that's a crime right there, regardless of whether Trump did anything illegal in the campaign.

But regardless of what there is, I absolutely agree with you that there's more than enough already there to require Mueller finish the job and report. IF Mueller concludes there's a case for obtstruction, he can say what facts support finding a criminal intent to coverup a crime.

I'm convinced there must be more, because jmo if Mueller didn't have something showing an underlying crime with Russia, he'd have closed up shop. It's harder to prove an evil intent to specifically coverup a crime, when there's also an explanation of wanting an investigation stopped because it detracted from Trump's power to do stuff. The question, imo, is whether the more is something Flynn or Papandopolis said they heard, or whether there's physical evidence, like in an email

PS, I forgot to add the link. It’s Now Likely Mueller Thinks Trump Obstructed Justice

I disagree on closing up shop. Clinton was busted on lying about a blowjob by a special counsel seated to investigate a real estate deal. If evidence of related crimes are discovered, the special counsel will pursue those as well.

he lied under oath. duh!!!!

You're clearly not following the conversation. We're discussing how a special counsel can follow crimes found in the course of an investigation. Ken Starr was seated to investigate Whitewater, a real estate deal.

well you have to have a crime first. so far there isn't one today. no need for a special counsel. period. drop MIC

 

[bodecea]

It’s actually a Gowdy memo. He said yesterday on an interview he is the one that put it together from evidence he had received from the fbi.
I mention it because Gowdy is less easy to for anyone to call suspect, since he was a prosecutor.

Less Suspect? Top Republican who led Benghazi panel used $150,000 of taxpayer money to settle claim with a fired staffer

 

[Skylar]

Lying to hide contacts with Russia would most definitely fall into the 'pattern of behavior' standard used to establish criminal intent.

Yes, but there must also be an evil intent to the lie. Trump can say the Russia investigation was damaging his ability to influence legislation and voters, and that's true. Firing Comey and ordering the investigation stopped and wanting to end Flynn's prosecution can all fit that, and would not be illegal. Of course, Trump's motivation might also be to hide his complicity with Russia hacking, and that would be illegal ... and the actions you list would then be obstruction.

If Trump asked Jr to parrot the lies about the Russian Spy meeting under oath, that's a crime right there, regardless of whether Trump did anything illegal in the campaign.

But regardless of what there is, I absolutely agree with you that there's more than enough already there to require Mueller finish the job and report. IF Mueller concludes there's a case for obtstruction, he can say what facts support finding a criminal intent to coverup a crime.

I'm convinced there must be more, because jmo if Mueller didn't have something showing an underlying crime with Russia, he'd have closed up shop. It's harder to prove an evil intent to specifically coverup a crime, when there's also an explanation of wanting an investigation stopped because it detracted from Trump's power to do stuff. The question, imo, is whether the more is something Flynn or Papandopolis said they heard, or whether there's physical evidence, like in an email

PS, I forgot to add the link. It’s Now Likely Mueller Thinks Trump Obstructed Justice

I disagree on closing up shop. Clinton was busted on lying about a blowjob by a special counsel seated to investigate a real estate deal. If evidence of related crimes are discovered, the special counsel will pursue those as well.

he lied under oath. duh!!!!

You're clearly not following the conversation. We're discussing how a special counsel can follow crimes found in the course of an investigation. Ken Starr was seated to investigate Whitewater, a real estate deal.

well you have to have a crime first. so far there isn't one today. no need for a special counsel. period. drop MIC

You don't need a crime first for a special counsel to be seated. Special counsels are seated to *investigate*. They look into a situation to see if a crime has been committed.

Remember, you don't actually know a thing about the law. Making your made up 'legal requirements' for the seating of a special counsel meaningless.

 

[jc456]

She's posted there's evidence Trump obstructed justice. Personally, I think Mueller has evidence of Trump and Russia doing a quid pro quo for help against Hillary, and that would not only be a crime, but arguably he illegally flipped an election, AND we already know he fired Comey when he knew Comey was investigating his ties to Russia. That's the obstruction.

Even so, he's not going to be impeached.

What EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION?

Please CITE THE EVIDENCE of Obstruction.
Please CITE US CODE that indicates specifically what High Crime or Misdemeanor Trump is being accused of committing.

Thank you for your cooperation

Sincerely,

Just The Facts Mam

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

LOL that is easy. You use the Comey standard of INTENT which is NO STANDARD AT ALL

Mueller: "Mr. President, why did you fire James Comey?"

Mr. President: "James Comey was negligent in his duties following standard FBI procedures when interviewing the targets of an investigation. Furthermore James Comey did not carry out his duties with regards to enforcing US Code 18 - 798."

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;

The terms “code,” “cipher,” and “cryptographic system” include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications;

The term “foreign government” includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States;

The term “communication intelligence” means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients;

The term “unauthorized person” means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States.

United States of America, or joint committee thereof.
person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law—
person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and
person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation.
United States all property described in paragraph (1).
21 U.S.C. 853(b), (c), and (e)–(p)), shall apply to—
section 524(c) of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund established under section 1402 of the Victims of Crime Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10601) [1] all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law.
State” means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any territory or possession of the United State


Mueller: "Mr. President did you have any other motives you would like to disclose now concerning the firing of James Comey other than USC 18 - 798?"

Mr. President: "James Comey was negligent with regards to his duties to enforce US Code 18 - 1924"

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

• • US Code
  • Notes

prev | next
employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
offense under subsection (a).
classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.

Mueller: "Um....okay Mr. President, I am going to ask this question again. Did you have any other reasons other than firing James Comey US Code 18 - 798 and US Code 18 - 1924?"

Mr. President: "Yes in fact I did!" James Comey was negligent in carrying out his duties in enforcing US Code 18 - 873"

Mueller: "Mr. President, I don't believe that has any relation to this issue. Who could possibly have been trying to black mail you?" And with a smirk, he looks at The President, and says, "The Russians"

Mr. President: "No James Comey! James Comey not only failed to enforce the law with regards to US Code 18 - 873, he also did not report the black mail attempt, which is an additional violation of both the law and FBI Policy and He also failed to arrest, have indicted and prosecute the offender. Had James Comey immediately ordered to have himself carried away in handcuffs after he threatened to expose the Fake Fusion GPS Russian Dossier in an attempt to hold that over my head in order to pressure me to allow him to keep his job, I would never have had to fire him!"

18 U.S. Code § 873 - Blackmail

• • US Code
  • Notes

prev | next
Whoever, under a threat of informing, or as a consideration for not informing, against any violation of any law of the United States, demands or receives any money or other valuable thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(I), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

The problem with that approach...is that Trump has already completely boned himself admitting that he fired Comey because of the Russia Investigation.

"And in fact when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said 'you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story, it's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won'."

Donald Trump

But hey, ignore what Trump actually said and replace it with your imagination. Mueller won't.

or instead:

nothing you wrote is a crime. nor is any other thing you wrote here in this thread. you lose. what is it you think you're going o do? do you know how a president gets removed from office? let us see what you actually know. so far nothing. it's all legal that has been investigated.

She's posted there's evidence Trump obstructed justice. Personally, I think Mueller has evidence of Trump and Russia doing a quid pro quo for help against Hillary, and that would not only be a crime, but arguably he illegally flipped an election, AND we already know he fired Comey when he knew Comey was investigating his ties to Russia. That's the obstruction.

Even so, he's not going to be impeached.

What EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION?

Please CITE THE EVIDENCE of Obstruction.
Please CITE US CODE that indicates specifically what High Crime or Misdemeanor Trump is being accused of committing.

Thank you for your cooperation

Sincerely,

Just The Facts Mam

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

LOL that is easy. You use the Comey standard of INTENT which is NO STANDARD AT ALL

Mueller: "Mr. President, why did you fire James Comey?"

Mr. President: "James Comey was negligent in his duties following standard FBI procedures when interviewing the targets of an investigation. Furthermore James Comey did not carry out his duties with regards to enforcing US Code 18 - 798."

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;

The terms “code,” “cipher,” and “cryptographic system” include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications;

The term “foreign government” includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States;

The term “communication intelligence” means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients;

The term “unauthorized person” means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States.

United States of America, or joint committee thereof.
person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law—
person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and
person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation.
United States all property described in paragraph (1).
21 U.S.C. 853(b), (c), and (e)–(p)), shall apply to—
section 524(c) of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund established under section 1402 of the Victims of Crime Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10601) [1] all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law.
State” means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any territory or possession of the United State


Mueller: "Mr. President did you have any other motives you would like to disclose now concerning the firing of James Comey other than USC 18 - 798?"

Mr. President: "James Comey was negligent with regards to his duties to enforce US Code 18 - 1924"

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

• 
  
  
  • US Code
  • Notes

prev | next
Any employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
offense under subsection (a).
classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.

Mueller: "Um....okay Mr. President, I am going to ask this question again. Did you have any other reasons other than firing James Comey other than US Code 18 - 798 and US Code 18 - 1924?"

Mr. President: "Yes in fact I did!" James Comey was negligent in carrying out his duties in enforcing US Code 18 - 873"

Mueller: "Mr. President, I don't believe that has any relation to this issue. Who could possibly have been trying to black mail you?" And with a smirk, he looks at The President, and says, "The Russians?"

Mr. President: "No James Comey! James Comey not only failed to enforce the law with regards to US Code 18 - 873, he also did not report the black mail attempt, which is an additional violation of both the law and FBI Policy and He also failed to arrest, have indicted and prosecute the offender.

Had James Comey immediately ordered to have himself carried away in handcuffs after he threatened to expose the Fake Fusion GPS Russian Dossier to the media in an attempt to hold that over my head in order to pressure me to allow him to keep his job, I would never have had to fire him!" He said he wasn't going anywhere! I guess he was WRONGGGGGG!"

18 U.S. Code § 873 - Blackmail

• 
  
  
  • US Code
  • Notes

prev | next
Whoever, under a threat of informing, or as a consideration for not informing, against any violation of any law of the United States, demands or receives any money or other valuable thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(I), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

 

[Skylar]

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

Lying to hide contacts with Russia would most definitely fall into the 'pattern of behavior' standard used to establish criminal intent.

Yes, but there must also be an evil intent to the lie. Trump can say the Russia investigation was damaging his ability to influence legislation and voters, and that's true. Firing Comey and ordering the investigation stopped and wanting to end Flynn's prosecution can all fit that, and would not be illegal. Of course, Trump's motivation might also be to hide his complicity with Russia hacking, and that would be illegal ... and the actions you list would then be obstruction.

If Trump asked Jr to parrot the lies about the Russian Spy meeting under oath, that's a crime right there, regardless of whether Trump did anything illegal in the campaign.

But regardless of what there is, I absolutely agree with you that there's more than enough already there to require Mueller finish the job and report. IF Mueller concludes there's a case for obtstruction, he can say what facts support finding a criminal intent to coverup a crime.

I'm convinced there must be more, because jmo if Mueller didn't have something showing an underlying crime with Russia, he'd have closed up shop. It's harder to prove an evil intent to specifically coverup a crime, when there's also an explanation of wanting an investigation stopped because it detracted from Trump's power to do stuff. The question, imo, is whether the more is something Flynn or Papandopolis said they heard, or whether there's physical evidence, like in an email

PS, I forgot to add the link. It’s Now Likely Mueller Thinks Trump Obstructed Justice

dude, there is nothing there. end the investigation and give our money back. there is no crime to get info on your opponent. none, doesn't matter where it comes from. my gawd, why you acting so stupid?

Unless mueller said anything there is absolutely nothing. presumption is someones smoking dream. LOL. I thought you were better than that. oh well another leftist I guess. you can say you're not, but this one post demonstrates otherwise.

There are undeniably crimes there. The only questions now are....how many, by whom and how severe?

And that's what Mueller is investigating. Productively, with 4 indictments and 2 guilty pleas.

Again, the more indictments and guilty pleas the more your ilk will insist the investigation be shut down immediately.

There are undeniably crimes there

not in the US. so what's next?

Lying to the FBI about Trump team contacts with Russia is a crime in the US.

And there are two such guilty pleas for said crime. You're just pretending they don't exist. And then imagining that because you pretend they don't exist....they don't exist.

If only reality worked that way.

 

[jc456]

Yes, but there must also be an evil intent to the lie. Trump can say the Russia investigation was damaging his ability to influence legislation and voters, and that's true. Firing Comey and ordering the investigation stopped and wanting to end Flynn's prosecution can all fit that, and would not be illegal. Of course, Trump's motivation might also be to hide his complicity with Russia hacking, and that would be illegal ... and the actions you list would then be obstruction.

If Trump asked Jr to parrot the lies about the Russian Spy meeting under oath, that's a crime right there, regardless of whether Trump did anything illegal in the campaign.

But regardless of what there is, I absolutely agree with you that there's more than enough already there to require Mueller finish the job and report. IF Mueller concludes there's a case for obtstruction, he can say what facts support finding a criminal intent to coverup a crime.

I'm convinced there must be more, because jmo if Mueller didn't have something showing an underlying crime with Russia, he'd have closed up shop. It's harder to prove an evil intent to specifically coverup a crime, when there's also an explanation of wanting an investigation stopped because it detracted from Trump's power to do stuff. The question, imo, is whether the more is something Flynn or Papandopolis said they heard, or whether there's physical evidence, like in an email

PS, I forgot to add the link. It’s Now Likely Mueller Thinks Trump Obstructed Justice

I disagree on closing up shop. Clinton was busted on lying about a blowjob by a special counsel seated to investigate a real estate deal. If evidence of related crimes are discovered, the special counsel will pursue those as well.

he lied under oath. duh!!!!

You're clearly not following the conversation. We're discussing how a special counsel can follow crimes found in the course of an investigation. Ken Starr was seated to investigate Whitewater, a real estate deal.

well you have to have a crime first. so far there isn't one today. no need for a special counsel. period. drop MIC

You don't need a crime first for a special counsel to be seated. Special counsels are seated to *investigate*. They look into a situation to see if a crime has been committed.

Remember, you don't actually know a thing about the law. Making your made up 'legal requirements' for the seating of a special counsel meaningless.

sure you do.

 

[Skylar]

What EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION?

Please CITE THE EVIDENCE of Obstruction.
Please CITE US CODE that indicates specifically what High Crime or Misdemeanor Trump is being accused of committing.

Thank you for your cooperation

Sincerely,

Just The Facts Mam

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

LOL that is easy. You use the Comey standard of INTENT which is NO STANDARD AT ALL

Mueller: "Mr. President, why did you fire James Comey?"

Mr. President: "James Comey was negligent in his duties following standard FBI procedures when interviewing the targets of an investigation. Furthermore James Comey did not carry out his duties with regards to enforcing US Code 18 - 798."

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;

The terms “code,” “cipher,” and “cryptographic system” include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications;

The term “foreign government” includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States;

The term “communication intelligence” means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients;

The term “unauthorized person” means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States.

United States of America, or joint committee thereof.
person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law—
person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and
person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation.
United States all property described in paragraph (1).
21 U.S.C. 853(b), (c), and (e)–(p)), shall apply to—
section 524(c) of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund established under section 1402 of the Victims of Crime Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10601) [1] all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law.
State” means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any territory or possession of the United State


Mueller: "Mr. President did you have any other motives you would like to disclose now concerning the firing of James Comey other than USC 18 - 798?"

Mr. President: "James Comey was negligent with regards to his duties to enforce US Code 18 - 1924"

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

• • US Code
  • Notes

prev | next
employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
offense under subsection (a).
classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.

Mueller: "Um....okay Mr. President, I am going to ask this question again. Did you have any other reasons other than firing James Comey US Code 18 - 798 and US Code 18 - 1924?"

Mr. President: "Yes in fact I did!" James Comey was negligent in carrying out his duties in enforcing US Code 18 - 873"

Mueller: "Mr. President, I don't believe that has any relation to this issue. Who could possibly have been trying to black mail you?" And with a smirk, he looks at The President, and says, "The Russians"

Mr. President: "No James Comey! James Comey not only failed to enforce the law with regards to US Code 18 - 873, he also did not report the black mail attempt, which is an additional violation of both the law and FBI Policy and He also failed to arrest, have indicted and prosecute the offender. Had James Comey immediately ordered to have himself carried away in handcuffs after he threatened to expose the Fake Fusion GPS Russian Dossier in an attempt to hold that over my head in order to pressure me to allow him to keep his job, I would never have had to fire him!"

18 U.S. Code § 873 - Blackmail

• • US Code
  • Notes

prev | next
Whoever, under a threat of informing, or as a consideration for not informing, against any violation of any law of the United States, demands or receives any money or other valuable thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(I), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

The problem with that approach...is that Trump has already completely boned himself admitting that he fired Comey because of the Russia Investigation.

"And in fact when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said 'you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story, it's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won'."

Donald Trump

But hey, ignore what Trump actually said and replace it with your imagination. Mueller won't.

or instead:

She's posted there's evidence Trump obstructed justice. Personally, I think Mueller has evidence of Trump and Russia doing a quid pro quo for help against Hillary, and that would not only be a crime, but arguably he illegally flipped an election, AND we already know he fired Comey when he knew Comey was investigating his ties to Russia. That's the obstruction.

Even so, he's not going to be impeached.

What EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION?

Please CITE THE EVIDENCE of Obstruction.
Please CITE US CODE that indicates specifically what High Crime or Misdemeanor Trump is being accused of committing.

Thank you for your cooperation

Sincerely,

Just The Facts Mam

Trump firing Comey and citing the Russia investigation as the reason.

Trump personally preparing a statement about Trump Jr. meeting at Trump tower with a Russia that lied about the meeting.

Comey testifying that Trump ordered him to stop his investigation into Flynn.

Trump admitting via twitter that he knew of Flynn's crimes before he fired Comey.

And that's what we know of. We'll learn what else, if anything, Mueller has soon enough.

1, 3 and 4 might be obstruction, but the jury or congress would have to find there was an intent to end the investigation so as to derail discovery of some underlying fact, which could be a crime of a common endeavor with Russia or even just an embarssement of some kind - golden showers or owning a lot of money to the Russian mafia.

With 2 though he really was suborning perjury from Werewolfson#1. That's definitely getting closer. It's a crime in and of itself, regardless of what Trump sought to coverup.

LOL that is easy. You use the Comey standard of INTENT which is NO STANDARD AT ALL

Mueller: "Mr. President, why did you fire James Comey?"

Mr. President: "James Comey was negligent in his duties following standard FBI procedures when interviewing the targets of an investigation. Furthermore James Comey did not carry out his duties with regards to enforcing US Code 18 - 798."

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;

The terms “code,” “cipher,” and “cryptographic system” include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications;

The term “foreign government” includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States;

The term “communication intelligence” means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients;

The term “unauthorized person” means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States.

United States of America, or joint committee thereof.
person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law—
person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and
person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation.
United States all property described in paragraph (1).
21 U.S.C. 853(b), (c), and (e)–(p)), shall apply to—
section 524(c) of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund established under section 1402 of the Victims of Crime Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10601) [1] all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law.
State” means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any territory or possession of the United State


Mueller: "Mr. President did you have any other motives you would like to disclose now concerning the firing of James Comey other than USC 18 - 798?"

Mr. President: "James Comey was negligent with regards to his duties to enforce US Code 18 - 1924"

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

• 
  
  
  • US Code
  • Notes

prev | next
Any employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
offense under subsection (a).
classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.

Mueller: "Um....okay Mr. President, I am going to ask this question again. Did you have any other reasons other than firing James Comey other than US Code 18 - 798 and US Code 18 - 1924?"

Mr. President: "Yes in fact I did!" James Comey was negligent in carrying out his duties in enforcing US Code 18 - 873"

Mueller: "Mr. President, I don't believe that has any relation to this issue. Who could possibly have been trying to black mail you?" And with a smirk, he looks at The President, and says, "The Russians?"

Mr. President: "No James Comey! James Comey not only failed to enforce the law with regards to US Code 18 - 873, he also did not report the black mail attempt, which is an additional violation of both the law and FBI Policy and He also failed to arrest, have indicted and prosecute the offender.

Had James Comey immediately ordered to have himself carried away in handcuffs after he threatened to expose the Fake Fusion GPS Russian Dossier to the media in an attempt to hold that over my head in order to pressure me to allow him to keep his job, I would never have had to fire him!" He said he wasn't going anywhere! I guess he was WRONGGGGGG!"

18 U.S. Code § 873 - Blackmail

• 
  
  
  • US Code
  • Notes

prev | next
Whoever, under a threat of informing, or as a consideration for not informing, against any violation of any law of the United States, demands or receives any money or other valuable thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(I), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

Nope. Trump himself already destroyed that entire argument.

"And in fact when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said 'you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story, it's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won'."

Donald Trump

But as Tree is prone to do, he's ignoring what Trump *actually* said. And imagining that Trump said something else.

Reality vs. imagination has the same winner every time:

Not you.