NRA General Counsel Robert Dowlut Convicted of Murder

[JoeB131]

[

But you certainly ignored all but the times the criminals are killed. And there are plenty of studies that guns are used to stop crimes far more often than they are used to kill.

But all those studies are paid for the National Rampage Association, and can be safely ignored.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

[

But you certainly ignored all but the times the criminals are killed. And there are plenty of studies that guns are used to stop crimes far more often than they are used to kill.

But all those studies are paid for the National Rampage Association, and can be safely ignored.

Really?

Prove it.

 

[JoeB131]

There were 5 guns at the Scene of NRA Member of the Year Adam Lanza's rampage. 3 left at home.

Not even a nice try

 

[WinterBorn]

[

But you certainly ignored all but the times the criminals are killed. And there are plenty of studies that guns are used to stop crimes far more often than they are used to kill.

But all those studies are paid for the National Rampage Association, and can be safely ignored.

Bullshit. I provided a link that showed different. Wow, you are called out over and over on your lies and you STILL try and bluff with bullshit.

 

[WinterBorn]

There were 5 guns at the Scene of NRA Member of the Year Adam Lanza's rampage. 3 left at home.

Not even a nice try

He had a .223-caliber Bushmaster XM15-E2S rifle, a 10mm Glock 20SF handgun, a 9mm SIG Sauer P226, an Izhmash Saiga-12 shotgun. That is 4 firearms.

Using more union math?

 

[WinterBorn]

[

But you certainly ignored all but the times the criminals are killed. And there are plenty of studies that guns are used to stop crimes far more often than they are used to kill.

But all those studies are paid for the National Rampage Association, and can be safely ignored.

Really?

Prove it.

Of course he can't prove it. Ihave already quoted a study by the federal gov't that showed that guns are used at least 100,000 times per year to stop crimes. Most experts agree that it happens 2x or 3x that often, since it is often not reported.

 

[WinterBorn]

There were 5 guns at the Scene of NRA Member of the Year Adam Lanza's rampage. 3 left at home.

Not even a nice try

From: http://www.ct.gov/csao/lib/csao/Sandy_Hook_Final_Report.pdf
"The following weapons were recovered in the course of this investigation: (1) a Bushmaster
ModelXM15-E2S semi-automatic rifle, found in the same classroom as the shooter’s body. All
of the 5.56 mm shell casings from the school that were tested were found to have been fired from
this rifle. (2) a Glock 20, 10 mm semi-automatic pistol found near the shooter’s body and
determined to have been the source of the self-inflicted gunshot wound by which he took his own
life. (3) a Sig Sauer P226, 9 mm semi-automatic pistol found on the shooter’s person. There is no
evidence this weapon had been fired. (4) a Izhmash Saiga-12, 12 gauge semi-automatic shotgun
found in the shooter’s car in the parking lot outside the school, and which was secured in the
vehicle’s trunk by police responding to the scene."

Apparently the CT State Police failed to find that 5th gun you insist was there. Perhaps you should call them and give them the benefit of your expertise?

Or just admit you lied again.

 

[WinterBorn]

JoeB, you are perhaps the worst debator on this site.

You throw "facts" out there like they are gospel, but rarely provide any backup to your claims. When your claims are debunked, you don't admit you were wrong, you bounce to a new topic and start throwing lies around again.

When all that fails, you try to claim that those arguing against you are insane or nuts. When that doesn't fly, you make outrageous claims about helping the 1%ers.

Truly sad. But worth a laugh or two.

 

[JoeB131]

[

But you certainly ignored all but the times the criminals are killed. And there are plenty of studies that guns are used to stop crimes far more often than they are used to kill.

But all those studies are paid for the National Rampage Association, and can be safely ignored.

Bullshit. I provided a link that showed different. Wow, you are called out over and over on your lies and you STILL try and bluff with bullshit.

That was the Keck Study, guy. Paid for by the NRA and complete bullshit.

Again, you don't need a gun, you WANT a gun. And if you guys can't keep the Lanzas and Holmes in line, there's no good reason for the rest of to let you have them.

 

[JoeB131]

JoeB, you are perhaps the worst debator on this site.

You throw "facts" out there like they are gospel, but rarely provide any backup to your claims. When your claims are debunked, you don't admit you were wrong, you bounce to a new topic and start throwing lies around again.

When all that fails, you try to claim that those arguing against you are insane or nuts. When that doesn't fly, you make outrageous claims about helping the 1%ers.

Truly sad. But worth a laugh or two.

Guy, you work on the assumption I am debating you.

Nope, I'm MOCKING you.

 

[WinterBorn]

JoeB, you are perhaps the worst debator on this site.

You throw "facts" out there like they are gospel, but rarely provide any backup to your claims. When your claims are debunked, you don't admit you were wrong, you bounce to a new topic and start throwing lies around again.

When all that fails, you try to claim that those arguing against you are insane or nuts. When that doesn't fly, you make outrageous claims about helping the 1%ers.

Truly sad. But worth a laugh or two.

Guy, you work on the assumption I am debating you.

Nope, I'm MOCKING you.

You are half right, because you certainly aren't debating anyone.

But tell us again how many guns Adam Lanza had with him at the school?

Tell us again how the study funded by the federal gov't (showing armed citizens stopping crimes at least 100,000 time a year) was somehow done by the NRA?

Tell me again how the link I provided was only about Kleck's study?

Tell us again how you know banning guns will change the suicide rates?

 

[WinterBorn]

[

But you certainly ignored all but the times the criminals are killed. And there are plenty of studies that guns are used to stop crimes far more often than they are used to kill.

But all those studies are paid for the National Rampage Association, and can be safely ignored.

Bullshit. I provided a link that showed different. Wow, you are called out over and over on your lies and you STILL try and bluff with bullshit.

That was the Keck Study, guy. Paid for by the NRA and complete bullshit.

Again, you don't need a gun, you WANT a gun. And if you guys can't keep the Lanzas and Holmes in line, there's no good reason for the rest of to let you have them.

No, what I posted was NOT the Kleck study. Obviously you have trouble reading or you don't care about actual facts.

Let me help you out. Here is what I posted:

""As with everything else concerning guns in this country, the DGU question prompts divergent answers. At one end of the spectrum, the NRA cites research by Gary Kleck, an accomplished criminologist at Florida State University. Based on self-reporting by survey respondents, Kleck has extrapolated that DGU occurs more than 2 million times a year. Kleck doesn’t suggest that gun owners shoot potential antagonists that often. DGU covers various scenarios, including merely brandishing a weapon and scaring off an aggressor.

At the other end of the spectrum, gun skeptics prefer to cite the work of David Hemenway, an eminent public-health scholar at Harvard University. Hemenway, who analogizes gun violence to an epidemic and guns to the contagion, argues that Kleck’s research significantly overestimates the frequency of DGU.

The carping back and forth gets pretty technical, but the brief version is that Hemenway believes Kleck includes too many “false positives”: respondents who claim they’ve chased off burglars or rapists with guns but probably are boasting or, worse, categorizing unlawful aggressive conduct as legitimate DGU. Hemenway finds more reliable an annual federal government research project, called the National Crime Victimization Survey, which yields estimates in the neighborhood of 100,000 defensive gun uses per year. Making various reasonable-sounding adjustments, other social scientists have suggested that perhaps a figure somewhere between 250,000 and 370,000 might be more accurate.""


Kleck claims guns are used by citizens up to 2 millions times per year to stop crimes. If I was quoting Kleck's numbers you should be able to link to where I used them.

Post that and I will admit you are right and I am wrong and I will quit this website.

Or you can admit that I have used much lower numbers and admit that you were lying.

My bet is that you will refuse to respond to this at all.

 

[JoeB131]

Whwe... Good thing there were only FOUR guns.

There are still 20 dead kids and 6 dead teachers, though.

 

[JoeB131]

No, what I posted was NOT the Kleck study. Obviously you have trouble reading or you don't care about actual facts.

I don't click on links provided by gun nuts. I don't waste my time with them. I have no interest in what you have to say.

 

[WinterBorn]

Whwe... Good thing there were only FOUR guns.

There are still 20 dead kids and 6 dead teachers, though.

Well I'll be damned. You actually admitted that you were wrong or were lying. But only after I posted the CT State Police reports. I bet that hurt, didn't it?

Pity you couldn't have gotten the actual facts before you posted and reposted the same lie.

 

[ChrisL]

[

But you certainly ignored all but the times the criminals are killed. And there are plenty of studies that guns are used to stop crimes far more often than they are used to kill.

But all those studies are paid for the National Rampage Association, and can be safely ignored.

Bullshit. I provided a link that showed different. Wow, you are called out over and over on your lies and you STILL try and bluff with bullshit.

That was the Keck Study, guy. Paid for by the NRA and complete bullshit.

Again, you don't need a gun, you WANT a gun. And if you guys can't keep the Lanzas and Holmes in line, there's no good reason for the rest of to let you have them.

Some interesting findings made here, and this is a study performed by the CDC.

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence

1. Armed citizens are less likely to be injured by an attacker:
“Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”

2. Defensive uses of guns are common:
“Almost all national survey estimates indicate thatdefensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year…in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”

3. Mass shootings and accidental firearm deaths account for a small fraction of gun-related deaths, and both are declining:
“The number of public mass shootings of the type that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School accounted for a very small fraction of all firearm-related deaths. Since 1983 there have been 78 events in which 4 or more individuals were killed by a single perpetrator in 1 day in the United States, resulting in 547 victims and 476 injured persons.” The report also notes, “Unintentional firearm-related deaths have steadily declined during the past century. The number of unintentional deaths due to firearm-related incidents accounted for less than 1 percent of all unintentional fatalities in 2010.”



Read more: CDC Gun Research Backfires on Obama - Guns Ammo

 

[WinterBorn]

No, what I posted was NOT the Kleck study. Obviously you have trouble reading or you don't care about actual facts.

I don't click on links provided by gun nuts. I don't waste my time with them. I have no interest in what you have to say.

You didn't have to click on the link. I quoted the relevant information in my post.

But then, you don't waste your time with facts either, do you?

 

[WinterBorn]

[

But you certainly ignored all but the times the criminals are killed. And there are plenty of studies that guns are used to stop crimes far more often than they are used to kill.

But all those studies are paid for the National Rampage Association, and can be safely ignored.

Bullshit. I provided a link that showed different. Wow, you are called out over and over on your lies and you STILL try and bluff with bullshit.

That was the Keck Study, guy. Paid for by the NRA and complete bullshit.

Again, you don't need a gun, you WANT a gun. And if you guys can't keep the Lanzas and Holmes in line, there's no good reason for the rest of to let you have them.

Some interesting findings made here, and this is a study performed by the CDC.

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence

1. Armed citizens are less likely to be injured by an attacker:
“Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”

2. Defensive uses of guns are common:
“Almost all national survey estimates indicate thatdefensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year…in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”

3. Mass shootings and accidental firearm deaths account for a small fraction of gun-related deaths, and both are declining:
“The number of public mass shootings of the type that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School accounted for a very small fraction of all firearm-related deaths. Since 1983 there have been 78 events in which 4 or more individuals were killed by a single perpetrator in 1 day in the United States, resulting in 547 victims and 476 injured persons.” The report also notes, “Unintentional firearm-related deaths have steadily declined during the past century. The number of unintentional deaths due to firearm-related incidents accounted for less than 1 percent of all unintentional fatalities in 2010.”



Read more: CDC Gun Research Backfires on Obama - Guns Ammo

Wow. Who knew that the CDC was just an NRA shill?

 

[WinterBorn]

No, what I posted was NOT the Kleck study. Obviously you have trouble reading or you don't care about actual facts.

I don't click on links provided by gun nuts. I don't waste my time with them. I have no interest in what you have to say.

I can just picture you stamping you feet and throwing a tantrum while you say "I don't care what you say!".

You obviously don't care what the facts say either. You are quite content to lie and spout nonsense while ignoring solid, relevant data.

 

[ChrisL]

No, what I posted was NOT the Kleck study. Obviously you have trouble reading or you don't care about actual facts.

I don't click on links provided by gun nuts. I don't waste my time with them. I have no interest in what you have to say.

YOU are the gun nut here. Your fear of and wanting to limit the rights of HONEST citizens boggles the mind. You do realize that none of your proposals would effect the CRIMINALS who are the ones doing the killing, right?