Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people

Update:
An important part of the law was rejected, among the opponents was President Rivlin.
The law was about to allow municipalities to reject non-Jewish residents.

The clause would allow for communities, including "of a single religion or a single nationality", to build separate towns.
http://www.iataskforce.org/sites/default/files/resource/resource-1586.pdf

This includes Arab municipalities.
I think it is bad idea for communities to be legally segregated. For one thing, it almost always seems to lead to inequitable division of resources. Minority communities, usually poorer and fighting discrimination, end up with substandard infrastructure and education. Lest you think I am picking on Israel, it’s true of many countries including the US.
Minorities are supposed to be "weak" by default in a stigmatic liberal doctrine.
In this case too it's hard to measure where a systematic focus on eliminating discrimination turns into an evident privilege in the face of the law in practice.
In my opinion, the Arab community is privileged in many ways.

Without going into a cliché line of accusations, this is a very interesting subject of safeguarding culture vs city planning and all around it.

I agree that it's a bad idea for a state to segregate communities, but at the same time it raises other comparable issues. For example should a state force communities to mix? Should a state at the same time enable safeguarding the cultural diversity/distinction for developing tourism, and simply the tradition of the inhabitants?
If we put in percentage - how does a state develop a plan where it can assure the proportion between promoting minorities move into mixed cities, versus the existing number of homogeneous villages for each minority?
The Arab minority is not priveledged, their communities often suffer from a lack of resources, including government spending, infrastructure and education. Those are the sort of things that segregation reinforces.

But you actually make a really good point on protecting minority culture and communities in the face of large scale development and expansion and I don’t know the answer to that, it is a problem faced by many countries trying to balance indiginous communities with development. Should you force desegregation? No. But that raises questions.

How do you protect minority communities from being overtaken by majority expansion? Gentrification? Cultural dominance?

How do you do it in a fair way? You can legally prevent outside cultures from living there, but then to be fair you need to allow everyone to do that? If the dominant culture can bar minorities from their communities what does that lead to? De facto segregation and usually a lack of upward mobility and entrenched poverty for minority communities. America is a good example of this. The only way I see it working would be to allow minority communities to be protected in order to preserve their culture and viability, but keep the majority communities open as their culture is the culture of the nation. But that would be seen as unfair I am sure. I think America is a good example as to how these things have played out.
 
Unlike the Dutch people, Jews originated in the land of Israel.
Of course YHWH gave South Africa to the Boers. They said so.

Canaan is the ancient name for the land of Israel. The Torah gave Abraham the land of Canaan, which in some cases stretched from southern Syria to the Eastern Sinai and, in other Torah references, was only a small strip hugging the Mediterranean. Under the leadership of Joshua the Israelites conquered Canaan, which had previously been divided into seven city states. Today, the land of Canaan is known as Palestine, Eretz Yisrael and Israel.
The Canaanites

But Penelope says my mother was a Hittite and my father an Amorite.
That sounds like something out of Monty Python....

I could say it in the last surviving Canaanite dialect if You like...
Proper Monty Python dialect would be “your father was a hamster and your mother smelled of elderberries”
 
There's no way of putting Israel in that category, without exercising the discrimination mentioned in the accusation.

Mandla Mandela calls Apartheid Israel worse than Apartheid South Africa
“Never before in my life has the reality of Apartheid Israel stared me so bluntly in the face as it did today on my visit to Al Aqsa, Bethlehem and Hebron. Standing in the Sacred Sanctuary on the very place that Apartheid Israel installed metal detectors and surveillance cameras against which we protested a few months ago made me realize just how intimidation, illegal occupation and brutality is meted out daily to Palestinians. We cannot be complicit by our silence.”

Noam Chomsky: Israeli Apartheid ‘Much Worse’ Than South Africa
Famous American linguist Noam Chomsky has described the actions of the Israeli occupation in Palestine as “worse than South African apartheid”.

Israel Just Dropped the Pretense of Equality for Palestinian Citizens
The so-called “Jewish nation-state” bill formalizes in Israeli law the superior rights and privileges that Jewish citizens of the state enjoy over its indigenous Palestinian minority, who comprise roughly 20% of the population.
So lets cut the foreplay and bullshit, just tell it for what it really is.

 
Update:
An important part of the law was rejected, among the opponents was President Rivlin.
The law was about to allow municipalities to reject non-Jewish residents.

The clause would allow for communities, including "of a single religion or a single nationality", to build separate towns.
http://www.iataskforce.org/sites/default/files/resource/resource-1586.pdf

This includes Arab municipalities.
I think it is bad idea for communities to be legally segregated. For one thing, it almost always seems to lead to inequitable division of resources. Minority communities, usually poorer and fighting discrimination, end up with substandard infrastructure and education. Lest you think I am picking on Israel, it’s true of many countries including the US.
Permitting Arab communities and forbidding Jewish communities is a good idea?

I did not say that.
I asked your opinion. You criticize the new law, but said nothing about current situation, when there are a lot of Arab cities and towns with zero Jewish population. So again, is it a good idea?
And, where did you find segregation in the discussed law?
 
It sounds middle eastern.
Such is impossible in Syria.

This is how middle eastern society has lived for millennias. Jewish, Druze and Kurdish villages in different countries. A natural human instinct is to gather around people with similar behavior.
Actually it's the basis of every society/country.

I don't have a problem with either mixed or homogeneous villages and towns.
It's actually nice to have both.
I agree as long people have the freedom to choose and are not barred.
You cannot choose something that is forbidden.
Duh...that is my point.
No, it isn't. Your statement is internally controversial. If creation of new specific communities is barred, then there is no freedom to choose.
 
Israel Legislates Apartheid into Law



“ Either Israel is a Jewish State it it is a Democracy”. LOL . Just one more reason why there’s shouldnt be a Palestinian State especially with a No Israelis Allowed Policy ! THANK YOU !!!! :iyfyus.jpg:
 
Other countries have the same language in their constitutions. Why is it "apartheid" when Israel does it and not when Spain does it?
You fuckers are much worse than South Africa.

Yes, you keep saying that. But your only argument seems to be: because Joooooooos.

Again, why is it labelled apartheid when Israel does it and not when Spain does it? Or any of a dozen other countries. It REEKS of a double standard and fall-back position of, "well, I don't really understand all this constitution and nationality stuff -- but if Israel does it -- it must be bad."
 
Israel Legislates Apartheid into Law



The video states that having Hebrew as the only official language makes non-Jews "second class citizens" (which they are equating with apartheid).

And yet where is the uproar of Palestine being apartheid? Spain? Finland? France? Hungary? Indonesia? Pakistan? Portugal?

For that matter where is the uproar that 31 US States have English as their only official language? Is the US an apartheid State?
 
Such is impossible in Syria.

This is how middle eastern society has lived for millennias. Jewish, Druze and Kurdish villages in different countries. A natural human instinct is to gather around people with similar behavior.
Actually it's the basis of every society/country.

I don't have a problem with either mixed or homogeneous villages and towns.
It's actually nice to have both.
I agree as long people have the freedom to choose and are not barred.
You cannot choose something that is forbidden.
Duh...that is my point.
No, it isn't. Your statement is internally controversial. If creation of new specific communities is barred, then there is no freedom to choose.

There is no freedom to choose if they are legally barred from choices. Which way is better? Communitees will often self segregate - people choose to move into like minded areas. But they choose, they aren't barred.
 
As expected, the new law caused a hysterical response from anti-Semites and haters of Israel. They react to the words "Jewish People" and "Israel" like a bull to a red rag.

images
 
Israel Legislates Apartheid into Law



The video states that having Hebrew as the only official language makes non-Jews "second class citizens" (which they are equating with apartheid).

And yet where is the uproar of Palestine being apartheid? Spain? Finland? France? Hungary? Indonesia? Pakistan? Portugal?

For that matter where is the uproar that 31 US States have English as their only official language? Is the US an apartheid State?


I think it depends on how Arabic is treated. What does "protected status mean" and what does it mean in relation to an "official language"?. Wasn't part of the various mandates and charters to not impinge on Arab culture in the Arab communities...? Israel is somewhat unique in that these issues are occurring TODAY, not centuries ago, as in Spain. Or France.
 
As expected, the new law caused a hysterical response from anti-Semites and haters of Israel. They react to the words "Jewish People" and "Israel" like a bull to a red rag.

images

Perhaps but I also think there is more to it than that. Clearly in the eyes of some there is nothing Israel can do that is acceptable even though other countries do the same. But there are also other issues.

What was particularly informing were the parts of the new law that were eventually removed.
 
The Arab minority is not priveledged, their communities often suffer from a lack of resources, including government spending, infrastructure and education. Those are the sort of things that segregation reinforces.

I think rylah's point is that one of the ways of addressing this disparity of resources is by "affirmative action", that is -- creating artificial privilege in the form of special consideration such as allocating additional resources, creating Arab-only communities, etc.

I would also question just how much Arab communities suffer from lack of resources and government spending, infrastructure and education and the reasons for that within Israel "proper" (not Area C). If the Israeli government deliberately underfunds Arab communities that is obviously a problem which should be addressed, but I'm not yet convinced that is true.

But you actually make a really good point on protecting minority culture and communities in the face of large scale development and expansion and I don’t know the answer to that, it is a problem faced by many countries trying to balance indiginous communities with development. Should you force desegregation? No. But that raises questions.

How do you protect minority communities from being overtaken by majority expansion? Gentrification? Cultural dominance?

Its important to point out that, globally, Israel IS the minority community and it is trying to protect itself from being overtaken by the dominant culture in the area. That is part of the reason Israel feels the need to assert her intent to protect Jewish culture, the Jewish language, the Jewish religion and Jewish history though this sort of Basic Law. (This would be true even without the raging antisemitism in the world that makes it so much worse and Israel's own struggle with being held to double standards -- including the double standard of creating a constitution which is normative in all other places in the world.)

As a comparative example, France has placed constitutional protections on the French language because it is being dominated in the EU by English and German and France is invested in preserving its linguistic culture.

The only way I see it working would be to allow minority communities to be protected in order to preserve their culture and viability, but keep the majority communities open as their culture is the culture of the nation. But that would be seen as unfair I am sure. I think America is a good example as to how these things have played out.

And this is exactly what Israel has done, legislatively. Jewish communities are prohibited from rejecting applicants for residence based on ethnicity, religion, etc. BUT Arab-only communities are protected as such by the State. This doesn't tend to work so well in practice, and I think the US is a good example of that.

But another thing to consider is that the conflict itself creates significant problems. On some level, there is an underlying hostility and fear (both sides) that places like the US don't have to deal with. It makes the problem that much harder to engage with, let alone solve. I think it CAN be solved, once the conflict is set aside.
 
This is how middle eastern society has lived for millennias. Jewish, Druze and Kurdish villages in different countries. A natural human instinct is to gather around people with similar behavior.
Actually it's the basis of every society/country.

I don't have a problem with either mixed or homogeneous villages and towns.
It's actually nice to have both.
I agree as long people have the freedom to choose and are not barred.
You cannot choose something that is forbidden.
Duh...that is my point.
No, it isn't. Your statement is internally controversial. If creation of new specific communities is barred, then there is no freedom to choose.

There is no freedom to choose if they are legally barred from choices. Which way is better? Communitees will often self segregate - people choose to move into like minded areas. But they choose, they aren't barred.
What choices? To settle in a community against the will of the members of the community?
Besides, the text of the law does not contain prohibitions.
 
15th post
There's no way of putting Israel in that category, without exercising the discrimination mentioned in the accusation.

Mandla Mandela calls Apartheid Israel worse than Apartheid South Africa
“Never before in my life has the reality of Apartheid Israel stared me so bluntly in the face as it did today on my visit to Al Aqsa, Bethlehem and Hebron. Standing in the Sacred Sanctuary on the very place that Apartheid Israel installed metal detectors and surveillance cameras against which we protested a few months ago made me realize just how intimidation, illegal occupation and brutality is meted out daily to Palestinians. We cannot be complicit by our silence.”

Noam Chomsky: Israeli Apartheid ‘Much Worse’ Than South Africa
Famous American linguist Noam Chomsky has described the actions of the Israeli occupation in Palestine as “worse than South African apartheid”.

Israel Just Dropped the Pretense of Equality for Palestinian Citizens
The so-called “Jewish nation-state” bill formalizes in Israeli law the superior rights and privileges that Jewish citizens of the state enjoy over its indigenous Palestinian minority, who comprise roughly 20% of the population.
So lets cut the foreplay and bullshit, just tell it for what it really is.


This is just ridiculous. Translation: Israel is apartheid because someone else said so.
 
Coyote

I know I say this alot, but I sure appreciate your comments on this board. Thank you for recognizing the nuances and complexity of these discussions and being able to argue the Palestinian side with grace and intelligence.
 
Israel Legislates Apartheid into Law



The video states that having Hebrew as the only official language makes non-Jews "second class citizens" (which they are equating with apartheid).

And yet where is the uproar of Palestine being apartheid? Spain? Finland? France? Hungary? Indonesia? Pakistan? Portugal?

For that matter where is the uproar that 31 US States have English as their only official language? Is the US an apartheid State?


I think it depends on how Arabic is treated. What does "protected status mean" and what does it mean in relation to an "official language"?. Wasn't part of the various mandates and charters to not impinge on Arab culture in the Arab communities...? Israel is somewhat unique in that these issues are occurring TODAY, not centuries ago, as in Spain. Or France.


Well, I think you dodged my question. Some of these countries developed and formed their constitutions, or renewed them, within the past hundred years. And we have nations from former countries like Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, USSR, and even the Ottoman Empire over the same time period who did not face the same level of scrutiny and hostility.

I appreciate your question about how Arabic will be treated going into the future, and I will address it, but first, please address my point -- that there is a double standard about how Israel's Basic Law is treated vs. the SAME LAWS in other countries. (Including Palestine and Gaza, which are highly relevant).
 
The Arab minority is not priveledged, their communities often suffer from a lack of resources, including government spending, infrastructure and education. Those are the sort of things that segregation reinforces.

I think rylah's point is that one of the ways of addressing this disparity of resources is by "affirmative action", that is -- creating artificial privilege in the form of special consideration such as allocating additional resources, creating Arab-only communities, etc.

I would also question just how much Arab communities suffer from lack of resources and government spending, infrastructure and education and the reasons for that within Israel "proper" (not Area C). If the Israeli government deliberately underfunds Arab communities that is obviously a problem which should be addressed, but I'm not yet convinced that is true.

It's interesting pointing out "affirmative action" because there are parallel's to the US and it's traditionally underpriveledged minorities - native Americans, black communities. Difficult problems to resolve.

Israeli legislators have recognized the inequality in government spending - this article is from 2015 (I'm not sure where this legislative effort ended up) but it points out the inequities:

Israel looks to address funding gaps for Arab community with $3.9 billion plan
The largest ever government plan to advance the economic development of Israel’s Arab population will go to the cabinet for approval on Wednesday, but Israeli Arab leaders said they were skeptical the ambitious plan would be put into effect given the current atmosphere in the country.


The proposal calls for 15 billion shekels ($3.86 billion) in extra funding on top of anything now allocated to Arab communities in the state budget. The money is to be devoted to developing infrastructure, industry, education and healthcare. The details of the plan were ironed out over the last two weeks in discussions between treasury officials and MK Ayman Odeh, chairman of the Joint Arab List.


But Arab lawmakers and public figures have expressed doubts about the likelihood of the plan being implemented, especially given the current atmosphere in Israel. The cabinet was supposed to approve the plan on Sunday, but the vote was delayed amid opposition from Likud ministers, including from Culture Minister Miri Regev, who said the plan did not include mixed cities of Hafia, Tel Aviv-Jaffa, Ramle and Lod. Sources said Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu felt uncomfortable approving the measure before the meeting of the Likud Central Committee Tuesday.


“We will be wiser after the cabinet meeting. Meanwhile, we are talking about promises and maybe a decision, which in the end has to be implemented,” said Sakhnin Mayor Mazen Ghanaim, who is also head of the Higher Arab Monitoring Committee. “If it is implemented, it will be a step in the right direction. Anyone who thinks this will lead to equality is wrong. It’s a step in the right direction on a long road,” he added.


The draft resolution details the gaps between Israeli Jews and Arabs. While Arabs constitute about 20% of Israel’s population, only 7% of the government’s budget for public transportation goes to Arab communities.
Moreover, some 34% of those killed in traffic accidents are Arab.

Only 3.5% of industrial zones in Israel are in Arab communities.


According to figures for 2014, 75.4% of Arab men between the ages of 25 and 64 were employed, compared with 85.7% of Jewish men who are not Haredi. Only 33.2% of adult Arab women were employed, versus 79.9% Jewish women. The plan calls for spending 24 million shekels on incentives to employers and small and medium-size businesses in the Arab community, as well as a 25% increase in the budget for building daycare centers in Arab towns. The Finance Ministry will allocate 200 million shekels to the Economy Ministry for employment-counselling centers in Arab communities.


In education, only 59.5% of students in the Arab school system are eligible for matriculation certificates, as opposed to 75.1% in the Jewish secular and state religious systems. The plan calls for a program led by the Education Ministry to improve Arabic and Hebrew language skills, with an emphasis on speaking and writing, from kindergarten through 12th grade.


By 2021, the plan calls for Arab undergraduates at Israeli universities to reach 17%, which would be an increase from 14% last year, and a similar boost for post-graduate students.


In housing, the plan states that 20 percent of the investment in public institutions will be in Arab communities, and that 30 percent of the fund for protection of open spaces is to be earmarked for Arab communities.


But you actually make a really good point on protecting minority culture and communities in the face of large scale development and expansion and I don’t know the answer to that, it is a problem faced by many countries trying to balance indiginous communities with development. Should you force desegregation? No. But that raises questions.

How do you protect minority communities from being overtaken by majority expansion? Gentrification? Cultural dominance?

Its important to point out that, globally, Israel IS the minority community and it is trying to protect itself from being overtaken by the dominant culture in the area. That is part of the reason Israel feels the need to assert her intent to protect Jewish culture, the Jewish language, the Jewish religion and Jewish history though this sort of Basic Law. (This would be true even without the raging antisemitism in the world that makes it so much worse and Israel's own struggle with being held to double standards -- including the double standard of creating a constitution which is normative in all other places in the world.)[/quote]

Every nation is unique to some degree, some more than others - I don't think you can justify actions against a nation's minority communities by justifying that the majority is a world minority and needs to be protected. That almost seems like it would justify institutional inequality based on protecting the majority. I don't have a problem with recognizing the DOMINANT culture and language in a nation. But it also depends on how minorities - long standing residents who's communities preceded the creation of the nation - are treated. I think as long as Arabic enjoys a protected status, recognizing it's importance - it's workable. IMO - it's no different than French/English in Canada. What is questionable to me (and I don't think this is normative in most western nations) is legally segregated communities where minorities are barred from living But I'm not clear on whether that measure is part of the bill.

As a comparative example, France has placed constitutional protections on the French language because it is being dominated in the EU by English and German and France is invested in preserving its linguistic culture.

Interesting - I did not realize that.


The only way I see it working would be to allow minority communities to be protected in order to preserve their culture and viability, but keep the majority communities open as their culture is the culture of the nation. But that would be seen as unfair I am sure. I think America is a good example as to how these things have played out.

And this is exactly what Israel has done, legislatively. Jewish communities are prohibited from rejecting applicants for residence based on ethnicity, religion, etc. BUT Arab-only communities are protected as such by the State. This doesn't tend to work so well in practice, and I think the US is a good example of that.

But another thing to consider is that the conflict itself creates significant problems. On some level, there is an underlying hostility and fear (both sides) that places like the US don't have to deal with. It makes the problem that much harder to engage with, let alone solve. I think it CAN be solved, once the conflict is set aside.

The US has an ugly history in that regard. And there is no easy answer to - how do you protect the integrity of minority communities without creating more problems? If the majority communities start barring minorities - then that is going to further disenfranchise them. IMO it's extremely important to protect the rights of minorities regardless of who they are, there are many many examples of the horrors inflicted on them from the dominant culture.
 
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