Now it's a basic law: The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people

[Sixties Fan]

Or are being segregated because they are not Jewish?

Give us some examples.

"the state sees the development of Jewish settlement as a national value and will act to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation."

Where in that paragraph is segregation of non Jews?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Look, no one's denying your right to love apartheid, it's just you have to accept you're going to be called on it.

Sorry, we shall be calling you on calling what Israel is - Apartheid.

That is your ignorance and absolute need to call Israel an Apartheid country without knowing or wanting to know anything about it.

You are not discussing. Much less wanting to know.

You are making endless Apartheid allegations even those who went through Apartheid in South Africa reject.

South African Leader Rejects Apartheid Slander Against Israel

Opinion | Why Israel Is Nothing Like Apartheid South Africa


You clearly have no idea what Apartheid was like in South Africa to be comparing it to Israel.

And I would venture to say that you have never been to either country.

 

[Sixties Fan]

It excludes no one.

It excludes non Jews from the right to determine Israel.

Where in the world does any minority determine what the country they live in is going to be like, going to be called, what religion, etc, etc ?

What a master of the absurd you are

 

[Billo_Really]

Then so are the dozens of other countries with constitutions nearly identical to this new law of Israel's. The hypocrisy of the international community is astounding. Again.

Other countries don't codify apartheid.

You people are disgusting!

 

[Billo_Really]

See?! You don't even KNOW what is in the constitutions of other countries. And yet you demonize Israel for this Basic Law. THAT is exactly the sort of ignorance that fuels unreasonable hatred.

Yes, certainly Arab countries, including Palestine. Did you recall any UPROAR about Palestine's Basic Law ratified in 2002? No? Why not? It is near identical to the Israeli one, including the claim to Jerusalem, Arabic as its only official language, Islam as its official religion, and loyalty to the Arab Nation. And we won't even have to mention the Hamas Charter, do we?

But also countries like Ireland, Spain, Latvia, Slovakia, Greece, Poland. There are dozens more. Easier, perhaps, to name the countries which don't have a national heritage and culture embedded in their constitution.

When did Israelis lose their humanity? Or do you even care?

 

[cnm]

Where in the world does any minority determine what the country they live in is going to be like, going to be called, what religion, etc, etc ?

In all countries I call Western Democracies, minorities have the same rights to national determination as the majority. I exclude Middle Eastern apartheid states from that description.

 

[cnm]

Or are being segregated because they are not Jewish?

Give us some examples.

"the state sees the development of Jewish settlement as a national value and will act to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation."

Where in that paragraph is segregation of non Jews?

Jewish settlement. Especially as that is on land Israel is stealing from its owners while denying them rights.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Where in the world does any minority determine what the country they live in is going to be like, going to be called, what religion, etc, etc ?

In all countries I call Western Democracies, minorities have the same rights to national determination as the majority. I exclude Middle Eastern apartheid states from that description.

Name the countries and the minorities which have achieved self determination in those countries.
And where in their constitution is it written?
Be specific .

By the way, are you sure that you do know the meaning of self-determination when it applies to Israel and its minorities ?

Israel's minorities would have the right to create what laws which would not affect the Jewish majority?

The USA's minorities would have the right to create what laws which would not affect other minorities or any majority?

How would they pass those laws?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Or are being segregated because they are not Jewish?

Give us some examples.

"the state sees the development of Jewish settlement as a national value and will act to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation."

Where in that paragraph is segregation of non Jews?

Jewish settlement.

Again, your knowledge of Israel, the Middle East and possibly most of the world is nil.

Settlements is not a dirty word.

There are Arab settlements. Druze settlements and Bedouin settlements.

They are known as clans.

Clans have existed since forever, especially in Arabia and many parts of the Middle East.

Jews are to Settle their land. It is part of who they are, what they have always done. Settle ON Their Land.

It is not any different now, and it is not going to turn into an ugly word, or a forbidden action simply because you do not understand what you are talking about.

 

[cnm]

Name the countries and the minorities which have achieved self determination in those countries.
And where in their constitution is it written?
Be specific .

Your reading comprehension is not my problem.

 

[cnm]

Jews are to Settle their land. It is part of who they are, what they have always done. Settle ON Their Land

Segregation. Apartheid. Stealing land. Seems you refuse to accept the meaning of those words. That's ok, it's understood Israel's position as a western democracy cannot survive if you accept the usual meanings. Really it should just settle for being a Middle Eastern apartheid state. It would all make sense then and you could stop pretending.

 

[Shusha]

It excludes non Jews from the right to determine Israel.

Just like non-Irish are excluded from the right to determine Ireland. That is what self-determination is FOR. That is what national identity is for the majority of countries. The Arab Palestinians are not excluded from having self-determination -- they are only excluded from having self-determination in Israel and in other places where other people have their own self-determination.

Are you going to likewise argue that Arab Palestinians can't declare a State of Palestine for the Palestinians?

 

[Shusha]

[Other countries don't codify apartheid.

You people are disgusting!

Other countries have the same language in their constitutions. Why is it "apartheid" when Israel does it and not when Spain does it?

 

[Shusha]

In all countries I call Western Democracies, minorities have the same rights to national determination as the majority.

Wait, what?! I don't believe you understand what you are talking about. You don't seem to understand what "national self-determination" means.

Do the Jewish people have a right to national self-determination, in, say, Spain? Why or why not? What about Morocco? Or Iraq? Why or why not?

Look, NO ONE is saying that the Arab Palestinians are excluded from national self-determination. But when they get it -- it will be in Palestine and not in Israel. Just as Jewish self-determination will be in Israel. That is the normative, acceptable way of solving these types of civil conflicts. Its happened to dozens of former Empires and larger Nations -- they become self-determining new nations. Yugoslavia. Czechoslovakia. USSR. The Ottoman Empire. Palestine.

It is you who are excluding the Jewish people from the same rights enjoyed by those other peoples.

 

[Shusha]

Segregation. Apartheid. Stealing land. Seems you refuse to accept the meaning of those words. That's ok, it's understood Israel's position as a western democracy cannot survive if you accept the usual meanings. Really it should just settle for being a Middle Eastern apartheid state. It would all make sense then and you could stop pretending.

There is no call for either segregation or apartheid in this Basic Law passed by Israel. It is you who are placing special meanings on Israel.

Is Czechoslovakia segregated? Is it apartheid? What about Yugoslavia? What about the territories of the former Ottoman Empire? What about North and South Korea? Segregation? Apartheid? What about Catalonia wanting to separate from Spain? Segregation? Apartheid?

 

[Coyote]

Unlike the Dutch people, Jews originated in the land of Israel.

Of course YHWH gave South Africa to the Boers. They said so.

Canaan is the ancient name for the land of Israel. The Torah gave Abraham the land of Canaan, which in some cases stretched from southern Syria to the Eastern Sinai and, in other Torah references, was only a small strip hugging the Mediterranean. Under the leadership of Joshua the Israelites conquered Canaan, which had previously been divided into seven city states. Today, the land of Canaan is known as Palestine, Eretz Yisrael and Israel.
The Canaanites​

But Penelope says my mother was a Hittite and my father an Amorite.

That sounds like something out of Monty Python....

 

[Coyote]

Update:
An important part of the law was rejected, among the opponents was President Rivlin.
The law was about to allow municipalities to reject non-Jewish residents.

The clause would allow for communities, including "of a single religion or a single nationality", to build separate towns.
http://www.iataskforce.org/sites/default/files/resource/resource-1586.pdf

This includes Arab municipalities.

I think it is bad idea for communities to be legally segregated. For one thing, it almost always seems to lead to inequitable division of resources. Minority communities, usually poorer and fighting discrimination, end up with substandard infrastructure and education. Lest you think I am picking on Israel, it’s true of many countries including the US.

 

[Coyote]

Update:
An important part of the law was rejected, among the opponents was President Rivlin.
The law was about to allow municipalities to reject non-Jewish residents.

Baby steps.

Sounds not so democratic.

It sounds middle eastern.

Such is impossible in Syria.

This is how middle eastern society has lived for millennias. Jewish, Druze and Kurdish villages in different countries. A natural human instinct is to gather around people with similar behavior.
Actually it's the basis of every society/country.

I don't have a problem with either mixed or homogeneous villages and towns.
It's actually nice to have both.

I agree as long people have the freedom to choose and are not barred.

 

[Coyote]

Another one of your lies.

Israel will definitely attempt to "kick out" any Arab or Muslim who perpetrates any act of terrorism in Israel. All countries do it.

You are truly ill informed about Israel and what happens there. Who comes, who stays, who is allowed to stay.

Think most asylum seekers in Israel are African? Try Ukrainian


More. Give me more of what you read in your "We hate Israel" sites

Again, you abandon the conversation because you have no argument.

"I" abandoned the conversation !!!!

I will wait for all of your evidence to what you were alleging. I have seen none so far.

Links, please, to all the allegations you insist we are not discussing and have abandoned.

Evidence.

It is an open fact that the process of becoming a citizen in Israel is prohibitive unless you are of the Jewish faith. You cannot refute that. Also, the entire topic of this thread is about how the theocratic Israeli government declared that onlish Jewish followers have a right of self determination in Israel. They have no interest in a peace process with non-Jews, and the U.S. should abandon them to their fate whether it is a good one or a bad one.

1) Debunked

Jerusalem Palestinians still seek Israeli citizenship despite Trump declaration

More Palestinians in Jerusalem seek Israeli citizenship

2) Debunked.

Herzl was not a religion Jew. None of the founders was a religious Theocrat. None of the Presidents or Prime Ministers of Israel have been Theocrats. Theocrats do not run the State of Israel.

Secularism in Israel - Wikipedia

3) You are too ignorant to understand the meaning of the expression
Self-Determination when it comes to the indigenous people of anywhere in the world. And you do it on purpose.

4) Debunked
Israel has a Peace Treaty with two of its Arab neighbors. Egypt and Jordan. You clearly do not care how those Peace Treaties came about.
You clearly do not know or care what the charters of the PLO, Hamas and Fatah say about negotiating peace with Israel, much less with Jews.

5) With the US help, or without, Israel would strive, as it is now.
It is not money which matters but what is done with it.

Arabs choose terrorism.

Jews choose progress.

Nothing was debunked in that post. In fact, you did not address either point I made except to say that indigenous people have a right to self-determination, except that by Israel’s reasoning all people of Abrahamic faith can claim to be indigenous to Israel; of course they passed a law saying that only those of the Jewish faith have any right to self determination.

Only within Israel.

 

[Coyote]

Good for the Israelis. How I wish we would do something like that here.

Like what?