Notable Christian Musician "Loses His Faith"

[sparky]

In closing this is what happens when the church becomes about tickling ears and not about teaching truth, even when it's uncomfortable.

One local church turned their entire existence into a stage for faith based R&R here

As an aspiring sound man, i hadda check it out

Best (high end) equipment ever, even better than the few sound companies that run around these parts

and so they suck in all the shredders , any kid they can...

~S~

 

[JoeB131]

Um. When you belong to an organization in which you share the same vision, goals, and ideals, and someone leaves that organization while at the same time betraying it--it's personal. Or else you don't really believe it. Right?

Believe me, every time some female teacher dog preys on a young man--especially a special needs young man--it's personal to me. Not personal in that I know her, but personal in that she betrayed the profession that I love.

I really don't think this is difficult to understand. Is it?

So you are comparing people who leave your faith to child molesters?

Really?

Man, you are a nasty, fanatic little ****, aren't you?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

When you belong to an organization in which you share the same vision, goals, and ideals, and someone leaves that organization while at the same time betraying it--it's personal. Or else you don't really believe it. Right?

Wow, you must be in a constant state of agitation, given that nearly 6 billion people on the planet think your organization is false crap.

 

[Disir]

Marty Sampson of the band Hillsong has recently renounced his Christian faith. It happens. However, his statement about this was shocking. Here is a man who was a "worship leader" for some twenty years. And this is what he has to say on leaving the faith:

Time for some real talk. I’m genuinely losing my faith, and it doesn’t bother me. Like, what bothers me now is nothing. I am so happy now, so at peace with the world. It’s crazy.

This is a soapbox moment so here I go … How many preachers fall? Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it. Christians can be the most judgmental people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people. But it’s not for me.

I am not in any more. I want genuine truth. Not the “I just believe it” kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. Lots of things help people change their lives, not just one version of God. Got so much more to say, but for me, I keeping it real. Unfollow if you want, I’ve never been about living my life for others.

All I know is what’s true to me right now, and Christianity just seems to me like another religion at this point. I could go on, but I won’t. Love and forgive absolutely. Be kind absolutely. Be generous and do good to others absolutely. Some things are good no matter what you believe. Let the rain fall, the sun will come up tomorrow.

Hillsong Songwriter Marty Sampson Says He’s Losing His Christian Faith | RELEVANT Magazine

He was upfront, leading Christian worship (!) for twenty years (!) and he could not wrap his head around why there were "no more miracles". To him the Bible is "full of contradictions". (How often did he study it?). Hell is a big one, I will grant him, but his understanding of it reads like every 17 year old sniveling atheist.

His entire post does not read like someone who was apparently not only in the faith for 20 years, but LEADING and CREATING songs of the faith for 20 years. Which is a whole 'nother topic about the inanity of modern Christian worship music, but I digress.

In closing this is what happens when the church becomes about tickling ears and not about teaching truth, even when it's uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, this is not going to get better.

Sampson, who for years has written songs for and toured with the popular music group Hillsong United, recently announced on social media that he was losing his faith. He subsequently clarified that he had not renounced Christianity entirely but that his faith was on shaky ground. The original Instagram post where he said he was losing his faith has since been deleted.
Marty Sampson responds to Skillet's John Cooper: I was being honest, not trying to draw attention

When Marty Sampson Shared His Faith Struggles, Here's What He Did for Others

I think many people re-evaluate or take stock multiple times throughout their life no matter what their belief system, or the lack there of, is. It is fitting for any individual to outgrow Hillsong or multiple other megachurches. Judaism and Christianity are replete with characters encountering a crisis of faith.

Sampson may not be leaving Christianity but simply evolving. I'm not saying that to leave Christianity is to evolve. I'm saying that Hillsong itself appears to be devoid of a lot of things that some of it's ex-members are seeking and while that may appeal to a certain type of individual to many others it's not. It's probably why his questions appear to be from a 17 year old atheist.

From the Book of Robert of Frost

Chapter 1 Verse 4
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.



Marty Sampson can have a journey as well.

 

[Polishprince]

Here's the real problem. The whole idea of religion is NOT to think about it. It's to sit obediently in Church or Sunday School and have someone who can't hold down a real job tell you what to think. .

The Religious Left really runs herd over most of the churches nowadays. Fellows like Ayatollah Jim Wallis will condemn anyone who doesn't toe the line one the religious left dogmas like Abortion and Anal Sex.

And its confusing to a lot of Christians, especially those who didn't grow up in Radical Episcopalianism or other extremist groups of Religious leftists.

I would suggest this guys find a REAL theologian to follow, someone like Rev. Terry Jones who stood up to the death threats and worse of Radical Islam to say the truth about them

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

1. He was a notable leader, a songwriter and "praise leader" for 20 years

Why is his leaving so personal to YOU?

2. Nevertheless, he had about the understanding of most of my 5th grade Sunday School students, or possibly less, in terms of grasp of the basics, and certainly in Christian maturity

Could his lack of understanding as you see it possibly be the reason for his departure? That he left the religion just like people leave relationships because they no longer provide them with anything or in the very least the things that they want and need?

It's interesting that you say you love listening to contemporary Christian music even though you're not Christian. You know what you don't hear non-Christians say? That they love reading the Bible even though they're not Christian. So somehow, we have presented Christian music as such a watered-down message that non-Christians feel totally comfortable with it.

I know people who enjoy reading the Bible who are not Christian but they also love learning about others including their religions. Reading religious texts is not easy for me and since it's not a requirement I just don't do it, it's too much like work.

I love music in general, most types but why are you upset that I enjoy Christian Contemporary? I was just mentioning to someone the other day that I love Prince of Peace and a New Hallelujah by Michael W Smith featuring the African Children's choir. I thought Christ brought a message of love to the world, I didn't realize that it was exclusively for his followers.

Um. When you belong to an organization in which you share the same vision, goals, and ideals, and someone leaves that organization while at the same time betraying it--it's personal. Or else you don't really believe it. Right?

Believe me, every time some female teacher dog preys on a young man--especially a special needs young man--it's personal to me. Not personal in that I know her, but personal in that she betrayed the profession that I love.

I really don't think this is difficult to understand. Is it?

No your comment doesn't make sense - what ***** are you referring to and what special needs young man? Your response caused me to go back and not only re-read the OP but also to check out the link and i saw nothing that refers to him being taken advantage of by someone in your field.

Furthermore, while people join grouops of like-minded individuals, everyone of us has our own beliefs, our own aspirations, our own needs & desires. When they align with those of others and we choose to join them then great, but things oftentime change.

Disappointment at this turn of events is definitely warranted, however anger at him and considering his change of heart as betrayal seems a bit extreme to me. People change their minds all of the time, even after having stated that they want one thing, or believe one thing they then leave - jobs, residences, relationships and apparently religions. Maybe they were presented with additional information that they did not have originally but I don't see how it is a reflection upon those who remain.

 

[SweetSue92]

When you belong to an organization in which you share the same vision, goals, and ideals, and someone leaves that organization while at the same time betraying it--it's personal. Or else you don't really believe it. Right?

Wow, you must be in a constant state of agitation, given that nearly 6 billion people on the planet think your organization is false crap.

That's an inane comment.

 

[SweetSue92]

Marty Sampson of the band Hillsong has recently renounced his Christian faith. It happens. However, his statement about this was shocking. Here is a man who was a "worship leader" for some twenty years. And this is what he has to say on leaving the faith:

Time for some real talk. I’m genuinely losing my faith, and it doesn’t bother me. Like, what bothers me now is nothing. I am so happy now, so at peace with the world. It’s crazy.

This is a soapbox moment so here I go … How many preachers fall? Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it. Christians can be the most judgmental people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people. But it’s not for me.

I am not in any more. I want genuine truth. Not the “I just believe it” kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. Lots of things help people change their lives, not just one version of God. Got so much more to say, but for me, I keeping it real. Unfollow if you want, I’ve never been about living my life for others.

All I know is what’s true to me right now, and Christianity just seems to me like another religion at this point. I could go on, but I won’t. Love and forgive absolutely. Be kind absolutely. Be generous and do good to others absolutely. Some things are good no matter what you believe. Let the rain fall, the sun will come up tomorrow.

Hillsong Songwriter Marty Sampson Says He’s Losing His Christian Faith | RELEVANT Magazine

He was upfront, leading Christian worship (!) for twenty years (!) and he could not wrap his head around why there were "no more miracles". To him the Bible is "full of contradictions". (How often did he study it?). Hell is a big one, I will grant him, but his understanding of it reads like every 17 year old sniveling atheist.

His entire post does not read like someone who was apparently not only in the faith for 20 years, but LEADING and CREATING songs of the faith for 20 years. Which is a whole 'nother topic about the inanity of modern Christian worship music, but I digress.

In closing this is what happens when the church becomes about tickling ears and not about teaching truth, even when it's uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, this is not going to get better.

Sampson, who for years has written songs for and toured with the popular music group Hillsong United, recently announced on social media that he was losing his faith. He subsequently clarified that he had not renounced Christianity entirely but that his faith was on shaky ground. The original Instagram post where he said he was losing his faith has since been deleted.
Marty Sampson responds to Skillet's John Cooper: I was being honest, not trying to draw attention

When Marty Sampson Shared His Faith Struggles, Here's What He Did for Others

I think many people re-evaluate or take stock multiple times throughout their life no matter what their belief system, or the lack there of, is. It is fitting for any individual to outgrow Hillsong or multiple other megachurches. Judaism and Christianity are replete with characters encountering a crisis of faith.

Sampson may not be leaving Christianity but simply evolving. I'm not saying that to leave Christianity is to evolve. I'm saying that Hillsong itself appears to be devoid of a lot of things that some of it's ex-members are seeking and while that may appeal to a certain type of individual to many others it's not. It's probably why his questions appear to be from a 17 year old atheist.

From the Book of Robert of Frost

Chapter 1 Verse 4
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.



Marty Sampson can have a journey as well.

The difference is this. "I've been married for 25 years and quite happily so, here's some advice on being married"

vs.

"Yeah me and my wife are separating after 25 years of marriage--here's what I think of making a happy marriage"

EVERYONE is very eager to hear the latter when it comes to Christianity. Ever notice that? That is what gets a lot of play and attention. No one gives a rip about the former.

 

[SweetSue92]

1. He was a notable leader, a songwriter and "praise leader" for 20 years

Why is his leaving so personal to YOU?

2. Nevertheless, he had about the understanding of most of my 5th grade Sunday School students, or possibly less, in terms of grasp of the basics, and certainly in Christian maturity

Could his lack of understanding as you see it possibly be the reason for his departure? That he left the religion just like people leave relationships because they no longer provide them with anything or in the very least the things that they want and need?

It's interesting that you say you love listening to contemporary Christian music even though you're not Christian. You know what you don't hear non-Christians say? That they love reading the Bible even though they're not Christian. So somehow, we have presented Christian music as such a watered-down message that non-Christians feel totally comfortable with it.

I know people who enjoy reading the Bible who are not Christian but they also love learning about others including their religions. Reading religious texts is not easy for me and since it's not a requirement I just don't do it, it's too much like work.

I love music in general, most types but why are you upset that I enjoy Christian Contemporary? I was just mentioning to someone the other day that I love Prince of Peace and a New Hallelujah by Michael W Smith featuring the African Children's choir. I thought Christ brought a message of love to the world, I didn't realize that it was exclusively for his followers.

Um. When you belong to an organization in which you share the same vision, goals, and ideals, and someone leaves that organization while at the same time betraying it--it's personal. Or else you don't really believe it. Right?

Believe me, every time some female teacher dog preys on a young man--especially a special needs young man--it's personal to me. Not personal in that I know her, but personal in that she betrayed the profession that I love.

I really don't think this is difficult to understand. Is it?

No your comment doesn't make sense - what ***** are you referring to and what special needs young man? Your response caused me to go back and not only re-read the OP but also to check out the link and i saw nothing that refers to him being taken advantage of by someone in your field.

Furthermore, while people join grouops of like-minded individuals, everyone of us has our own beliefs, our own aspirations, our own needs & desires. When they align with those of others and we choose to join them then great, but things oftentime change.

Disappointment at this turn of events is definitely warranted, however anger at him and considering his change of heart as betrayal seems a bit extreme to me. People change their minds all of the time, even after having stated that they want one thing, or believe one thing they then leave - jobs, residences, relationships and apparently religions. Maybe they were presented with additional information that they did not have originally but I don't see how it is a reflection upon those who remain.

K you realize that now you seem to be taking this personally. Right?

 

[JoeB131]

The Religious Left really runs herd over most of the churches nowadays. Fellows like Ayatollah Jim Wallis will condemn anyone who doesn't toe the line one the religious left dogmas like Abortion and Anal Sex.

Or we realize that dogma doesn't fit reality.

Hey, the bible says we need to burn witches. And people burned witches all the way up until the 17th century or so. The bible says that Slaves should happily serve their masters! But, man, try to find a church that will call for burning a witch or selling a slave.

So putting abortion aside (which the bible says nothing about), do you guys have an argument against "anal sex" (which 37% of straight people engage in) other than "the bible says it's bad" and "I think it's icky"?

No. No, you don't.

Jesus said nothing about homosexuality and abortion, but he did say we should take care of the poor, welcome other people and treat people like we'd want to be treated. EVEN ILLEGAL ALIENS!

The Christian Right is anti-Jesus, not the Christian Left, whatever that is.

And its confusing to a lot of Christians, especially those who didn't grow up in Radical Episcopalianism or other extremist groups of Religious leftists.

I would suggest this guys find a REAL theologian to follow, someone like Rev. Terry Jones who stood up to the death threats and worse of Radical Islam to say the truth about them

You mean some bigoted shithead trying to get attention to his Church of six people, most of whom are his inbred relatives?

 

[Disir]

Marty Sampson of the band Hillsong has recently renounced his Christian faith. It happens. However, his statement about this was shocking. Here is a man who was a "worship leader" for some twenty years. And this is what he has to say on leaving the faith:

Time for some real talk. I’m genuinely losing my faith, and it doesn’t bother me. Like, what bothers me now is nothing. I am so happy now, so at peace with the world. It’s crazy.

This is a soapbox moment so here I go … How many preachers fall? Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it. Christians can be the most judgmental people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people. But it’s not for me.

I am not in any more. I want genuine truth. Not the “I just believe it” kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. Lots of things help people change their lives, not just one version of God. Got so much more to say, but for me, I keeping it real. Unfollow if you want, I’ve never been about living my life for others.

All I know is what’s true to me right now, and Christianity just seems to me like another religion at this point. I could go on, but I won’t. Love and forgive absolutely. Be kind absolutely. Be generous and do good to others absolutely. Some things are good no matter what you believe. Let the rain fall, the sun will come up tomorrow.

Hillsong Songwriter Marty Sampson Says He’s Losing His Christian Faith | RELEVANT Magazine

He was upfront, leading Christian worship (!) for twenty years (!) and he could not wrap his head around why there were "no more miracles". To him the Bible is "full of contradictions". (How often did he study it?). Hell is a big one, I will grant him, but his understanding of it reads like every 17 year old sniveling atheist.

His entire post does not read like someone who was apparently not only in the faith for 20 years, but LEADING and CREATING songs of the faith for 20 years. Which is a whole 'nother topic about the inanity of modern Christian worship music, but I digress.

In closing this is what happens when the church becomes about tickling ears and not about teaching truth, even when it's uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, this is not going to get better.

Sampson, who for years has written songs for and toured with the popular music group Hillsong United, recently announced on social media that he was losing his faith. He subsequently clarified that he had not renounced Christianity entirely but that his faith was on shaky ground. The original Instagram post where he said he was losing his faith has since been deleted.
Marty Sampson responds to Skillet's John Cooper: I was being honest, not trying to draw attention

When Marty Sampson Shared His Faith Struggles, Here's What He Did for Others

I think many people re-evaluate or take stock multiple times throughout their life no matter what their belief system, or the lack there of, is. It is fitting for any individual to outgrow Hillsong or multiple other megachurches. Judaism and Christianity are replete with characters encountering a crisis of faith.

Sampson may not be leaving Christianity but simply evolving. I'm not saying that to leave Christianity is to evolve. I'm saying that Hillsong itself appears to be devoid of a lot of things that some of it's ex-members are seeking and while that may appeal to a certain type of individual to many others it's not. It's probably why his questions appear to be from a 17 year old atheist.

From the Book of Robert of Frost

Chapter 1 Verse 4
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.



Marty Sampson can have a journey as well.

The difference is this. "I've been married for 25 years and quite happily so, here's some advice on being married"

vs.

"Yeah me and my wife are separating after 25 years of marriage--here's what I think of making a happy marriage"

EVERYONE is very eager to hear the latter when it comes to Christianity. Ever notice that? That is what gets a lot of play and attention. No one gives a rip about the former.

There has been an uproar over this church that is believed to be forcing a change in the format of services to compete.

This is a format that a lot of people appear to be really unhappy with.

Perhaps, it's a gift.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's an inane comment

no, It's spot on. You said you conemcerned yourself with this man because he eschews your mission and vision. Well, he has that in common with 6 billion other people. My, you must be very concerned.

In other words, the reason you gave was grade a bullshit.

 

[Andylusion]

Marty Sampson of the band Hillsong has recently renounced his Christian faith. It happens. However, his statement about this was shocking. Here is a man who was a "worship leader" for some twenty years. And this is what he has to say on leaving the faith:

Time for some real talk. I’m genuinely losing my faith, and it doesn’t bother me. Like, what bothers me now is nothing. I am so happy now, so at peace with the world. It’s crazy.

This is a soapbox moment so here I go … How many preachers fall? Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it. Christians can be the most judgmental people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people. But it’s not for me.

I am not in any more. I want genuine truth. Not the “I just believe it” kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. Lots of things help people change their lives, not just one version of God. Got so much more to say, but for me, I keeping it real. Unfollow if you want, I’ve never been about living my life for others.

All I know is what’s true to me right now, and Christianity just seems to me like another religion at this point. I could go on, but I won’t. Love and forgive absolutely. Be kind absolutely. Be generous and do good to others absolutely. Some things are good no matter what you believe. Let the rain fall, the sun will come up tomorrow.

Hillsong Songwriter Marty Sampson Says He’s Losing His Christian Faith | RELEVANT Magazine

He was upfront, leading Christian worship (!) for twenty years (!) and he could not wrap his head around why there were "no more miracles". To him the Bible is "full of contradictions". (How often did he study it?). Hell is a big one, I will grant him, but his understanding of it reads like every 17 year old sniveling atheist.

His entire post does not read like someone who was apparently not only in the faith for 20 years, but LEADING and CREATING songs of the faith for 20 years. Which is a whole 'nother topic about the inanity of modern Christian worship music, but I digress.

In closing this is what happens when the church becomes about tickling ears and not about teaching truth, even when it's uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, this is not going to get better.

I actually think this is good. I'd actually wondered about him for some time. Something about the man seemed off to me. Now I know.

Regardless, G-d cannot reach someone, who isn't even honest with themselves. Marty is now in a better place for G-d to reach him, than he was before. This is better for him, and I wish him the best.

The only thing he said in the quote you had, that actually does bug the crap out of me, is kept saying "No one talks about it." What are these people smoking? People talk about all that stuff.... CONSTANTLY. ALL THE TIME! How many dozens of times have non-Christians asking me about such-and-such contradiction, and I have to debunk it for hundredth time again?? I can even begin to count.

People fall out of the church all time, and people bring it up constantly. I've seen it brought up 5 times in the past month on this forum alone, and that's me when I am on here infrequently at best!

And to make it worse.... the Bible says openly, that many in the church will fall away! So here he is saying 'no one talks about it' when the book itself talks about it!

Marty Dude.... get a grip! People talk about all that stuff, every single day of the year, and have for 2,000 years since Judas left the 12 and betrayed Christ! What are you SMOKING??

(rolls eyes).... moving on....

 

[presonorek]

As Christians "we" allowed him to write our songs, lead our praise, whatever. This is a problem. We are not well-rooted, and that's a problem.

I totally agree but see no solution. Modern Christianity is about saying the sinnner's prayer, attending church and permanently "going through a hard time". The K-Love genre or "praise" genre glorifies suffering. Who wants to live a life focusing on an once in a lifetime event of "getting saved", attending an intellectually empty church service and searching for opportunities to go through a hard time?

Christianity somehow has morphed into what it is but there are no successful reformers available. Christianity is what it is. It still has a few hundred years left. So it is fine for now just the way it is.

We will all die way before Christianity does. So if you like it just enjoy it for the rest of your life. It will likely be there for you.

 

[LittleNipper]

He was upfront, leading Christian worship (!) for twenty years (!) and he could not wrap his head around why there were "no more miracles". To him the Bible is "full of contradictions". (How often did he study it?). Hell is a big one, I will grant him, but his understanding of it reads like every 17 year old sniveling atheist.

His entire post does not read like someone who was apparently not only in the faith for 20 years, but LEADING and CREATING songs of the faith for 20 years. Which is a whole 'nother topic about the inanity of modern Christian worship music, but I digress.

In closing this is what happens when the church becomes about tickling ears and not about teaching truth, even when it's uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, this is not going to get better.

Wow, Sour Sue, you think his problem was that he was involved in the show-biz edge of big religion? Really?

Frankly, what he said made a lot of sense... even if it messes up your sensibilities.

Why does God send otherwise good people to hell because they had the bad luck to be born in a place where they don't worship Jesus?

That makes him sound like a prick, really.

God sends no one to hell but Satan and his fellow demons/fallen angels. People go to hell because they are sinful and have no means but Christ to atone for this inbred nature. Those that have been exposed to Christ and reject Him will face a far more grievous eternity separated from GOD than some native who has never heard of Christ and His gospel message. Even Sodom and Gomorrah will be under far less condemnation than those that rejected GOD's truth.

 

[LittleNipper]

As Christians "we" allowed him to write our songs, lead our praise, whatever. This is a problem. We are not well-rooted, and that's a problem.

I totally agree but see no solution. Modern Christianity is about saying the sinnner's prayer, attending church and permanently "going through a hard time". The K-Love genre or "praise" genre glorifies suffering. Who wants to live a life focusing on an once in a lifetime event of "getting saved", attending an intellectually empty church service and searching for opportunities to go through a hard time?

Christianity somehow has morphed into what it is but there are no successful reformers available. Christianity is what it is. It still has a few hundred years left. So it is fine for now just the way it is.

We will all die way before Christianity does. So if you like it just enjoy it for the rest of your life. It will likely be there for you.

You WILL face hard times either with or without GOD's help. I much rather have it. I find Christianity very stimulating and intellectual. Those that reject it seem to depend on Christians to stimulate their thoughts of opposition. Without Christianity, what would you then complain about and what moral stones would you find to throw?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

1. He was a notable leader, a songwriter and "praise leader" for 20 years

Why is his leaving so personal to YOU?

2. Nevertheless, he had about the understanding of most of my 5th grade Sunday School students, or possibly less, in terms of grasp of the basics, and certainly in Christian maturity

Could his lack of understanding as you see it possibly be the reason for his departure? That he left the religion just like people leave relationships because they no longer provide them with anything or in the very least the things that they want and need?

It's interesting that you say you love listening to contemporary Christian music even though you're not Christian. You know what you don't hear non-Christians say? That they love reading the Bible even though they're not Christian. So somehow, we have presented Christian music as such a watered-down message that non-Christians feel totally comfortable with it.

I know people who enjoy reading the Bible who are not Christian but they also love learning about others including their religions. Reading religious texts is not easy for me and since it's not a requirement I just don't do it, it's too much like work.

I love music in general, most types but why are you upset that I enjoy Christian Contemporary? I was just mentioning to someone the other day that I love Prince of Peace and a New Hallelujah by Michael W Smith featuring the African Children's choir. I thought Christ brought a message of love to the world, I didn't realize that it was exclusively for his followers.

Um. When you belong to an organization in which you share the same vision, goals, and ideals, and someone leaves that organization while at the same time betraying it--it's personal. Or else you don't really believe it. Right?

Believe me, every time some female teacher dog preys on a young man--especially a special needs young man--it's personal to me. Not personal in that I know her, but personal in that she betrayed the profession that I love.

I really don't think this is difficult to understand. Is it?

No your comment doesn't make sense - what ***** are you referring to and what special needs young man? Your response caused me to go back and not only re-read the OP but also to check out the link and i saw nothing that refers to him being taken advantage of by someone in your field.

Furthermore, while people join grouops of like-minded individuals, everyone of us has our own beliefs, our own aspirations, our own needs & desires. When they align with those of others and we choose to join them then great, but things oftentime change.

Disappointment at this turn of events is definitely warranted, however anger at him and considering his change of heart as betrayal seems a bit extreme to me. People change their minds all of the time, even after having stated that they want one thing, or believe one thing they then leave - jobs, residences, relationships and apparently religions. Maybe they were presented with additional information that they did not have originally but I don't see how it is a reflection upon those who remain.

K you realize that now you seem to be taking this personally. Right?

Why would I be taking this personally? I'm not a Christian, he's not leaving my religion, or me personally, or a group that we were all in. You're the who is upset, you admitted as much and then tried to explain why him leaving is considered a betrayal. Some people would say good riddence, his loss not take it as a reflection upon themselves or their religion

All I've done is ask the question as to WHY people get so offended when one of their team members abdicates. I explained I was trying to be sensitive to your feelings because I know you're a devout Christian however I was trying to get some insight, certainly my intent was not to increase your anguish.

 

[Picaro]

Don't know the man, haven't read what he thinks are 'contradictions', there aren't any that stand up to scrutiny, either Old or New Testament, but I can see where it's easy to get lured into the Magical Mystery Cult carnival aspect of Christianity while avoiding any intellectual study or appreciation for for the depth of logic, theology, and philosophy it possesses.

One of the major faults I see is that ministers never prepare followers to suffer, all must be mindlessly 'Positive' in thoughts and deeds, Happiness And Light, and Jesus has to be some sort of New Improved Hippie Jesus, and 'believe' all you need to do in life is pray for stuff and whatnot.

I think many people are also really more interested in the social aspects, and aren't actual believers, which is okay too, better than hanging out with car salesmen or dope gangs. Christianity and most Jewish sects have all the right enemies, which is more than enough reason to support it and appreciate it whether one is believer or not. It's secular truths and observations on human nature are more realistic appraisals and lessons than the belief in the fantasies of 'rationalism' and pop psychobabble of the type favored by neurotic deviants, sociopaths, and pagan morons. It's much more in tune with real human nature than any of those.

 

[Picaro]

As Christians "we" allowed him to write our songs, lead our praise, whatever. This is a problem. We are not well-rooted, and that's a problem.

I totally agree but see no solution. Modern Christianity is about saying the sinnner's prayer, attending church and permanently "going through a hard time". The K-Love genre or "praise" genre glorifies suffering. Who wants to live a life focusing on an once in a lifetime event of "getting saved", attending an intellectually empty church service and searching for opportunities to go through a hard time?

Christianity somehow has morphed into what it is but there are no successful reformers available. Christianity is what it is. It still has a few hundred years left. So it is fine for now just the way it is.

We will all die way before Christianity does. So if you like it just enjoy it for the rest of your life. It will likely be there for you.

You WILL face hard times either with or without GOD's help. I much rather have it. I find Christianity very stimulating and intellectual. Those that reject it seem to depend on Christians to stimulate their thoughts of opposition. Without Christianity, what would you then complain about and what moral stones would you find to throw?

Well, we certainly know the effects of its decline in a country; murdering babies by the many millions, rampant dope addictions, mindless self-indulgence, and bizarre sexual deviancies are now billed as 'normal', and wealth is worshiped as the only true measure of 'achievement'. Both right and left wing ideological fantasies treat humans as nothing but 'economic units', to be disposed of when no longer 'productive', etc. Red China and the Soviet Union are considered 'the good guys' now.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“Love and forgive absolutely. Be kind absolutely. Be generous and do good to others absolutely.”

Tenets none of which are the sole purview of Christianity.