North Korea - Declaration of War

[manu1959]

PS:- Is America afraid of what the other nations will say if it attacks N.K??
The only countries that will make noise are- China (obviously) , Iran(again..obviously),Venezuela(yup..Chavez will!!) , Cuba(Maybe..Remember ,Castro isn't in power anymore).
I don't see any other nation making a hue and cry over U.S going into N.K!!
It is because here for the first time America and its allies are directly threatened by a madman in Pyongyang who has nukes. And he has publicly declared to fire them at the U.S or Japan!!!!


Akshay

NK doesn't have anything we want....we ain't going in ....you deal with it

 

[Mr. P]

Hey, Mr P why do you keep expounding on "agenda,agenada.." everytime???

Do you mistrust the Indian mind???:huh:

If you want to share the burden of going into N.K then you have S.Korea and Japan. Adn the only country that's gonna blame you is China!!! Trust me!!!



Akshay

But it’s not Japan or SK that is advocating the US going in alone, it’s you, and Indian.

So what is that agenda?

 

[CSM]

I'll wait for NK to fire the first nuke...then maybe...just maybe...I will urge our country to act. Until then, I am an advocate of "wait and see"; after all, we don't want to rush to a war with a country which poses no direct threat to the US; especially since it is entirely possible that the intelligence may be flawed and (as we have been told oh so many times) the current administration is probably lying.

So you are saying that you will wait for N.K to fire a nuke at Okinawa in Japan which will wipe out a 1000 American lives or else a nuke at L.A which will wipe out millions , AND THEN YOU WILL ACT????!!!!

I mean ..C'mon Kim has the bomb... He can have a missile range as far as California...He fires a nuke..WIPING OUT MILLIONS OF AMERICAN(And not ONLY American lives) lives ..AND THEN THE U.S will act???

Its like shutting the door when the horse has bolted!!!!

AksHay[/QUOTE]

Yup. No sense in jumping the gun (so to speak). Besides, the missiles NK have test fired have all been dismal failures.

India is more likely to be hit than the US, so why isn't India mobilizing to take action against NK? In fact, is India doing anything at all regarding NK? What is India's OFFICIAL position on this matter? You keep advocating US intervention, but I sure don't see you volunteering any Indian forces or assets...

 

[Hamiltonian]

India and pre-emptive ??? Give me a break!!! We never have carried out a pre-emptive unilateral military strike on any nation(including Pakistan).If ya don't believe me..read Indian history!!!

Yes..We will carry out a pre-emptive unilateral military strike if we come to know that Pakistan or China is going to bomb us!!!

And that's the same scenario for N.K vs U.S.A!!!
What's the guranteed Kim dosen't fire a nuke into Beverly Hills in the coming few months!!
He already has declared war on U.S!!! And HE sure does or can have a missile range as far as California in the coming future. As I asked earlier..

It's not the same scenario for the US vs. DPRK. There is very little likelyhood that Kim Jong Il would even want to initiate a war with us even if he could bomb some of our cities. Just because there is no guarantee that Kim Jong Il won't do it doesn't mean that he is going to do it.

The DPRK missile tech is pretty far behind. Their current missiles can only hit Western Japan if they're equipped with any warheads. It is unfeasible for the DPRK to fire a nuke into Beverly Hills because they don't have a missile that can reach that far with anything on it, and there is a major difference between building a kiloton nuke and building a kiloton nuke that is small enough to fit on a missile and make it to the west coast. The real engineering challenge is not building a nuke, but building one that can fit on a missile.

IS AMERICA PREPARED TO LOSE A CITY?? BECAUSE KIM DOSEN'T CARE IF HIS NATION GETS BLASTED INTO OBLIVION IF HE CAN HURT AMERICA BADLY!!!
AMERICA ISN'T PREPARED FOR CASUALTIES.IT IS NOT PREPARED TO LOSE EVEN A A SINGLE CITY...WHEREAS KIM JONG IL DOSEN'T CARE IF PYONGYANG GETS WIPED OUT FROM THE MAP!!! ITS A BLOODY FACT..
AKshay

All that Kim Jong Il cares about in this world is that he stays in power. If he doesn't have a nation, he's no longer in power. Kim Jong Il does not hate the US nearly as much as he hates Japan. If the DPRK had to attack someone, they would much rather attack Japan than the US. Even if Kim Jong Il was willing to go to war, he would use his "long range" weaponry on Japan. The DPRK basically poses a very small military threat to the US, and we have no real interest in the DPRK except to try and keep them from attacking someone in Asia. The main way the DPRK could hurt the US is to hurt our economy by destroying the Asian economy.

On the other hand I've heard rumors they're working jointly with Pakistan on missile technology and their nuclear program. Shouldn't you be much more concerned for India (indirectly because of Pakistan) than you are for the US.

 

[akiboy]

Hey guys.. Before you keep telling India to attack N.K please do see today's news... US Secretary of State Condoleeza RIce has pledged that U.S will protect Japan from any threat from N.K!!! That means IF N.K fires even 1 missile into Japan U.S will retaliate.. You people said that Kim hates Jpana more than America. But America has sworn to protect Japan. I have said before ..war with N.K is inevitable..If Japan gets hit then the U.S has a lot to lose...Not only its military base but economically also.You think Japan will forgive you all if N.K attacks Japan and the U.S sits on the fence??

As for India's view on N.K..India condemned the nuke test EVEN before the U.S did..It was splashed in almost all the papers a few days back.

I assure you that N.Korea WILL not strike India. China is a threat to India and not N.K. If China and N.K DO collaborate then I guarantee that India will support the U.S militarily and politically (Actually we already are on your side.Just becuase we remain silent dosen't mean that we are neutral.We are bloody well on Japan's side as well. Japan and India signed a major treaty last year when Koizumi was in power.)


Akshay

 

[akiboy]

On the other hand I've heard rumors they're working jointly with Pakistan on missile technology and their nuclear program. Shouldn't you be much more concerned for India (indirectly because of Pakistan) than you are for the US.[/QUOTE]



Yeah , IF what you say is true.. then this makes it even more complicated for the U.S as Pakistan is a nuclear state and a major U.S ally.

India is already on America's side on N.K. as I mentioned earlier.


Akshay

 

[onedomino]

If Japan gets hit then the U.S has a lot to lose.

That would be correct, if it happened. But it will not happen. If NK lauched a missile at japan, there is a very high probability that it wolud be shot down, either by the land based US Patriot ABMs located in Japan, or by sea based US Aegis cruisers and destroyers in the Sea of Japan. Further, there are secret ABM systems for the defense of Japan that no one is talking about, such as the Boeing 747 mounted airborne laser system. See image below. NK realizes that any nuke attack is not likely to get through, and that it means complete annihilation by US forces. If NK fired a nuke at Japan, Pyongyang would cease to exist. NK understand this, and unless they are trying to commit suicide, they will not attack. CSM was right when he said "wait and see."

-

 

[akiboy]

Can the Patriot missiles stop a nuke?????

That to if the nuke has multiple warheads???






aKShay

 

[Gunny]

Can the Patriot missiles stop a nuke?????

That to if the nuke has multiple warheads???






aKShay

The Patriot does not have to stop a "nuke." It intercepts missiles and destroys them regardless the payload.

You need to quit bolding your posts and using multiple punctuation marks. It makes you look rather frantic.

 

[akiboy]

I am not frantic!!!

I just type fast thats all!


So CAN the Patriot missiles intercept a shower of missiles at a given time?

As far as I know.. SAM(Surface to Air) missile defenses , that to the American Patriot cannot stop an ICBM nor can they stop missiles with multiple warheads! Is this true?


Akshay

 

[Hamiltonian]

I am not frantic!!!

I just type fast thats all!


So CAN the Patriot missiles intercept a shower of missiles at a given time?

As far as I know.. SAM(Surface to Air) missile defenses , that to the American Patriot cannot stop an ICBM nor can they stop missiles with multiple warheads! Is this true?


Akshay

One of the ideas of an MIRV is to make it harder for missile defenses to stop the missile. However, the DPRK probably does not have enough nuclear material to create a decent MIRV, and also they are not close to the technology to put a single nuclear warhead on a missile. It is a very difficult thing to make a nuclear warhead small enough for a missile, and a feat of engineering to make 8 nuclear warheads fit and then have them all go where you want. It will be a long time before the DPRK has the technology. I mean their nuclear bomb and Taepodong simple medium range missile tests have failed, and you expect them to combine them into something exponentially more complicated and have it work?

We have something better than Patriot missiles. We have nukes of our own, and the DPRK will not commit suicide by attacking as onedomino said.

 

[Gunny]

I am not frantic!!!

I just type fast thats all!


So CAN the Patriot missiles intercept a shower of missiles at a given time?

As far as I know.. SAM(Surface to Air) missile defenses , that to the American Patriot cannot stop an ICBM nor can they stop missiles with multiple warheads! Is this true?


Akshay

As has been pointed out a couple of times, NK's tests have resulted in less than good results. They're shows, atempting to stongarm the US. I don't think we're very impressed with their caveman techology thus far.

From what I understand, their missiles are so primitive our fighters could shoot them down, not to mention the fact that as Hamiltonian says, they are medium-range missiles. They might reach India, but not the US.

 

[Said1]

A test is testing their technology isn't it? Kind of like blowing smoke out their ass and hoping for the best? :nine:

 

[akiboy]

Mr Gunny L you are wrong in saying that N.K can't strike U.S territory!!

They can strike Okinawa (with a nuke)
They can strike the U.S Military listening station in Fort Greely , Alaska which the U.S uses to monitor Russia's missile tests and bases.
They have Taepodong missiles with a max. range of 5000 km.

And if YOU see the map of Asia ...N.K is more close to Alaska and California then New Delhi or are they almost same???



Akshay

 

[Said1]

Mr Gunny L you are wrong in saying that N.K can't strike U.S territory!!

They can strike Okinawa (with a nuke)
They can strike the U.S Military listening station in Fort Greely , Alaska which the U.S uses to monitor Russia's missile tests and bases.
They have Taepodong missiles with a max. range of 5000 km.

And if YOU see the map of Asia ...N.K is more close to Alaska and California then New Delhi or are they almost same???



Akshay

Why would they hit New Delhi? Why would they hit Alaska? Why would they risk annhilation?

 

[Gunny]

Mr Gunny L you are wrong in saying that N.K can't strike U.S territory!!

They can strike Okinawa (with a nuke)
They can strike the U.S Military listening station in Fort Greely , Alaska which the U.S uses to monitor Russia's missile tests and bases.
They have Taepodong missiles with a max. range of 5000 km.

And if YOU see the map of Asia ...N.K is more close to Alaska and California then New Delhi or are they almost same???



Akshay

You aren't getting it. The remark about India was humor. Feel free to go out and purchase a sense of.

Last missile test I heard of, the missile didn't get as far as Japan, much less anywhere else.

Okinawa has not been US territory since President Carter returned it to Japan in the late 70s.

Hitting Alaska isn't anyone's goal. Strategically it would be a lot of effort for no gain. Knowing the retaliation to follow, if one cannot hit a vital target; which, Alaska is not, the threat is diminished by the importance of the targets they CAN hit.

Point is, while I can understand your distrust of N Korea, and recognizing it as a threat, it is nowhere near the threat you are making it out to be.

 

[akiboy]

Ok. I agree that N.K is not a threat right now. Let me compare N.K to Iraq.
You must have known that Iraq's nuke program goes way back to the 80's when they built the nuke complex of osirak.But Israel blasted it with their air force as Saddam had put all his eggs in one basket. Later , he built many location for his missiles and also for a suspected chem/bio weapons program. He also made a plan to assasisinate George Bush Senior after the Gulf War.

So , finally George Bush invaded Iraq and kicked Saddam out of his fort. But why did U.S invade?? For oil ? No! They knew Saddam would get powerful. He would be seeking to build a long range nuke which could harm U.S interests in Asia and the Gulf. WHy do you think U.S didn't wait for diplomacy to sort out the mess in Iraq? Because sanctions never hurt Iraq ..not Saddam atleast.

N.K is exactly like Iraq. And the problem for America is that China supports it.
Iraq was not a threat when U.S invaded it.Just like how N.k is not a threat as you mentioned. But it will be a long term threat and grow even more powerful.N.K will develop long range missiles in the coming years.That nation survives because of its military. America nuked Japan and gained a valuable ally in Asia.So why not the same strategy for N.K? Is China the problem? Let me tell you..If America dosen't do it now then it cannot do it afterwards.N.K will be out of control then with China backing it.

Akshay

 

[Said1]

Ok. I agree that N.K is not a threat right now. Let me compare N.K to Iraq.
You must have known that Iraq's nuke program goes way back to the 80's when they built the nuke complex of osirak.But Israel blasted it with their air force as Saddam had put all his eggs in one basket. Later , he built many location for his missiles and also for a suspected chem/bio weapons program. He also made a plan to assasisinate George Bush Senior after the Gulf War.

So , finally George Bush invaded Iraq and kicked Saddam out of his fort. But why did U.S invade?? For oil ? No! They knew Saddam would get powerful. He would be seeking to build a long range nuke which could harm U.S interests in Asia and the Gulf. WHy do you think U.S didn't wait for diplomacy to sort out the mess in Iraq? Because sanctions never hurt Iraq ..not Saddam atleast.

N.K is exactly like Iraq. And the problem for America is that China supports it.
Iraq was not a threat when U.S invaded it.Just like how N.k is not a threat as you mentioned. But it will be a long term threat and grow even more powerful.N.K will develop long range missiles in the coming years.That nation survives because of its military. America nuked Japan and gained a valuable ally in Asia.So why not the same strategy for N.K? Is China the problem? Let me tell you..If America dosen't do it now then it cannot do it afterwards.N.K will be out of control then with China backing it.

Akshay

You're asking why NK doesn't have non-communist allies in the west?

Again, why would NK want to nuke anyone? What could they possibly gain after the fact? Your allies are only your allies if they agree with the actions you take.

 

[Annie]

Ok. I agree that N.K is not a threat right now. Let me compare N.K to Iraq.
You must have known that Iraq's nuke program goes way back to the 80's when they built the nuke complex of osirak.But Israel blasted it with their air force as Saddam had put all his eggs in one basket. Later , he built many location for his missiles and also for a suspected chem/bio weapons program. He also made a plan to assasisinate George Bush Senior after the Gulf War.

In the 80's we were supporting Saddam as 'Our Bastard' again Iran. It was during this time that he developed and used WMD's.

In the early 90's Saddam invaded Kuwait, which led to the Gulf War. The planned 'attempt to assassinate' followed the Persian Gulf War, when the President would be visiting Kuwait in 1993. Throughout the remainder of the 90's he played cat and mouse with the US and UK airforces, in violation of the cease fire agreement he'd signed. He also sold oil for weapons, rather than food, with the help of several strongly UN alligned countries, most notably France, Germany, and Russia. The same countries that after 9/11 would work feverishly to prevent his overthrow and keep the problem confined to non-enforceable UN auspices.

The reasons the US and UK and others decided that 'he had to go' was the reality that Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and others countries 'problems' could no longer be ignored or papered over. The 'cancer' of terrorism was dominate in the Middle East and there had to be a stronger counterforce than Israel.

Now many of the earlier issues of past decades were brought up, bio and chemical weapons being at the forefront, but regime change was always there, just downplayed in the media and by the administration itself-too much like assassination.

So , finally George Bush invaded Iraq and kicked Saddam out of his fort. But why did U.S invade?? For oil ? No! They knew Saddam would get powerful. He would be seeking to build a long range nuke which could harm U.S interests in Asia and the Gulf. WHy do you think U.S didn't wait for diplomacy to sort out the mess in Iraq? Because sanctions never hurt Iraq ..not Saddam atleast.

Again, it was for regime change.

N.K is exactly like Iraq. And the problem for America is that China supports it.
Iraq was not a threat when U.S invaded it.Just like how N.k is not a threat as you mentioned. But it will be a long term threat and grow even more powerful.N.K will develop long range missiles in the coming years.That nation survives because of its military. America nuked Japan and gained a valuable ally in Asia.So why not the same strategy for N.K? Is China the problem? Let me tell you..If America dosen't do it now then it cannot do it afterwards.N.K will be out of control then with China backing it.

Akshay

I think you are looking at this from your own 'perspective' and there's nothing wrong with that. However, NK is very different from US pov, our concern in the East are primarily Japan, Australia, and US Navy. That doesn't mean that we want nukes in the hands of a mad man, but it's much more a Chinese and South Korean problem than US.

 

[Gunny]

Ok. I agree that N.K is not a threat right now. Let me compare N.K to Iraq.
You must have known that Iraq's nuke program goes way back to the 80's when they built the nuke complex of osirak.But Israel blasted it with their air force as Saddam had put all his eggs in one basket. Later , he built many location for his missiles and also for a suspected chem/bio weapons program. He also made a plan to assasisinate George Bush Senior after the Gulf War.

So , finally George Bush invaded Iraq and kicked Saddam out of his fort. But why did U.S invade?? For oil ? No! They knew Saddam would get powerful. He would be seeking to build a long range nuke which could harm U.S interests in Asia and the Gulf. WHy do you think U.S didn't wait for diplomacy to sort out the mess in Iraq? Because sanctions never hurt Iraq ..not Saddam atleast.

N.K is exactly like Iraq. And the problem for America is that China supports it.
Iraq was not a threat when U.S invaded it.Just like how N.k is not a threat as you mentioned. But it will be a long term threat and grow even more powerful.N.K will develop long range missiles in the coming years.That nation survives because of its military. America nuked Japan and gained a valuable ally in Asia.So why not the same strategy for N.K? Is China the problem? Let me tell you..If America dosen't do it now then it cannot do it afterwards.N.K will be out of control then with China backing it.

Akshay

The difference between Iraq and N Korea that matters is that Iraq had the means via oil to become more powerful. N Korea does not have the means.

The time to do something about China was 1952. It's a little too late at this point in the game.

Your assessment of China is a bit off though. Do you think China will allow N Korea to become as powerful as you seem to think they can right on China's back doorstep? I don't think so.