No Women: You Do NOT Have the Right To Choose

[Lesh]

With about 2 dozen issues involved in any US public office campaign, do you expect to have agreement with a candidate on EVERY one of them ? Just wondering.

Abortion is CLEARLY your main interest and yet you don’t care that Walker has paid for not one but TWO

 

[protectionist]

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Well yes, it will allow our various 'Big Governments' to mandate what she can choose in regards her uterus....which, some here won't acknowledge, is where that glob of cells exists, and is dependent upon to continue existing.

A fetus is not a stand-alone entity, an independent human. Without that uterus ---in the vast vast majority of pregnancies.....that fetus can't exist.

Until birth the woman is the most important, the most dominant, element in the tri-partite arrangement of female-male-fetus.
She must not be subservient to elected legislators, to concede to those temporary bureaucrats her body her well-being, or to have autonomy over her own uterus confiscated from her.

Yes she must, in order to insure the safety of the person inside her. Simple as that.

And she took autonomy of her body away from herself (partially), when she consented to engage in the activity that brought about the loss of the specific autonomy.

 

[alang1216]

FALSE! A fetus has already developed into a new human life at only 11 weeks of gestation. Look at the illustrations below. Can you see any difference between the fetus at 11 weeks and a born baby ? If so, it's not much.

Humans continually go through physiological changes all through their lives - growing taller, breasts for woman, facial hair for men, menepause, enlarged prostates, changes of hair color, etc.

We don't say without these developments, they are not worthy of protection & rights.


View attachment 716062
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I don't know when the fetus is worthy of being called a 'person', I'll leave that call to biologists. I only know that as far as I'm concerned, a fertilized egg is NOT a person but a one-second old baby is. Somewhere in between is a line.

 

[alang1216]

That less than halfway into its gestation, it has developed into a Human, with a body and a soul.

Soul? I have no clue about such matters.

 

[protectionist]

Abortion is CLEARLY your main interest and yet you don’t care that Walker has paid for not one but TWO

NO, it is NOT my main interest. My main interests are affordable housing, the current disastrous rent increases, crime, inflation, immigration, and race relations including discrimination. Abortion ranks below all these for me.

 

[alang1216]

Including pre-born persons.

5 minutes before birth you have a person, 9 months before birth you do not. IMHO.

 

[protectionist]

I don't know when the fetus is worthy of being called a 'person', I'll leave that call to biologists. I only know that as far as I'm concerned, a fertilized egg is NOT a person but a one-second old baby is. Somewhere in between is a line.

Agreed. See Post 503. might help

 

[protectionist]

5 minutes before birth you have a person, 9 months before birth you do not. IMHO.

Agreed.

 

[sparky]

Maybe we would, if you told us what you're talking about.

collectivism is the basic premise of any free society

If you demean one of us, you've taken all of us down a notch

I.E.~ if you're rights have been abused, it's easy to abuse the rest of us

~S~

 

[elektra]

This I understand and agree with this. What I don't understand is the people who claim that science can answer the question. To me, until the development of a uniquely human brain, the zygote/fetus is just a collection of DNA and other organic molecules (unique or not), not worthy of superseding the rights of the mother.

But, how does the zygote know how to divide?

A brain? That is a good argument, but that zygote... Besides, democrats dont have human brains yet they have rights.

 

[sparky]

For those of you still wondering

this is how society bows to fascism , totalitarianism , or what ever other control freak term you may have

~S~

 

[initforme]

Encourage you g people never to have kids. Abolishes abortion and helps everything.

 

[protectionist]

collectivism is the basic premise of any free society

If you demean one of us, you've taken all of us down a notch

I.E.~ if you're rights have been abused, it's easy to abuse the rest of us

~S~

Fair enough, so how does this tie in with the topic > rights rankings of the pregnant woman vs the pre-born baby ?

 

[protectionist]

For those of you still wondering

this is how society bows to fascism , totalitarianism , or what ever other control freak term you may have

~S~

WHAT is how ?

 

[Blues Man]

Really. A fetus is given the right to life in many US states. I didn't say anything about full compliments.

No it really hasn't.

All that those states have done is outlaw the practice of abortion.

 

[Blues Man]

The illustrations in Post # 503 could answer that.

That is a biological depiction.

There is a difference between that and the legal definition of a person

 

[Blues Man]

Of course it is not a guaranteed right. Guaranteeing the right to do an abortion, is guaranteeing the right to commit murder. Would those who accept abortion, accept it for their own mothers, a few months before they were born ?

Once again it is the legal issue of when the unborn attain personhood that matters.

Do you care to discuss that or not?

 

[Blues Man]

States are deciding that by enacting a specific gestation week, after which abortions may not be performed. In any law, it goes by the gravity of the act.
Example : (Florida law)

• Property valued below $300 classifies as petit theft and a 2nd degree misdemeanor.
• Property valued between $300 and $20,000 is 3rd degree grand theft.
• Property valued between $20,000 and $100,000 is 2nd degree grand theft.
• Property valued above $100,000 is 1st degree grand theft.

Yes and no. It's easy enough for a person to leave the state and travel to one where abortions are not illegal. There is no legal argument that can justify detaining a woman from travel while pregnant as there is in the case of people taking born children out of state which can be stopped if it is deemed the children would be in danger if they left the state.

So all you really have is the banning of a procedure with no implied rights given to a fetus

 

[Blues Man]

But, how does the zygote know how to divide?

A brain? That is a good argument, but that zygote... Besides, democrats dont have human brains yet they have rights.

View attachment 716094

Cell division is not a conscious process and is controlled by DNA not the brain

 

[elektra]

Cell division is not a conscious process and is controlled by DNA not the brain

Yet, how does the dna know? How do all those parts know what to do.