No Peace With Palestinians

[MJB12741]

Shame on the Zionists for placating endless Palestinian demands so they can stay to kill more Israeli's. When will they ever learn to treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers in surrounding Arab countries do & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

Yes, the Jew's should give citizenship to MOST the non-Jews under their rule just as the Jordanians gave citizenship to most of the Palestinians under their rule. Let's start with the non-Jews on the West Bank. LET THEIR BE PEACE ALREADY!

I find it interesting that some of our most vehement Team Palestine members actually argue against their self-determination. Why is that? Genuine question.

There is no longer the possibility for Palestinians to exercise self-determination, so the only good solution is a multi-ethnic state with equal rights for non-Jews.

What greater punishment could Israel do to Palestinians then to make self determination mandatory on them?

 

[montelatici]

Shame on the Zionists for placating endless Palestinian demands so they can stay to kill more Israeli's. When will they ever learn to treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers in surrounding Arab countries do & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

Yes, the Jew's should give citizenship to MOST the non-Jews under their rule just as the Jordanians gave citizenship to most of the Palestinians under their rule. Let's start with the non-Jews on the West Bank. LET THEIR BE PEACE ALREADY!

I find it interesting that some of our most vehement Team Palestine members actually argue against their self-determination. Why is that? Genuine question.

There is no longer the possibility for Palestinians to exercise self-determination, so the only good solution is a multi-ethnic state with equal rights for non-Jews.

What greater punishment could Israel do to Palestinians then to make self determination mandatory on them?

The Israelis could have "punished them" to self-determination 2 decades ago, but they didn't. Ever wonder why? Now that it is no longer possible to establish a sovereign Palestinian state, there is only the one-state solution, either a democratic secular state or continue as an apartheid Jew-ruled state, like white-ruled South Africa.

 

[Hollie]

Shame on the Zionists for placating endless Palestinian demands so they can stay to kill more Israeli's. When will they ever learn to treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers in surrounding Arab countries do & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

Yes, the Jew's should give citizenship to MOST the non-Jews under their rule just as the Jordanians gave citizenship to most of the Palestinians under their rule. Let's start with the non-Jews on the West Bank. LET THEIR BE PEACE ALREADY!

I find it interesting that some of our most vehement Team Palestine members actually argue against their self-determination. Why is that? Genuine question.

There is no longer the possibility for Palestinians to exercise self-determination, so the only good solution is a multi-ethnic state with equal rights for non-Jews.

What greater punishment could Israel do to Palestinians then to make self determination mandatory on them?

The Israelis could have "punished them" to self-determination 2 decades ago, but they didn't. Ever wonder why? Now that it is no longer possible to establish a sovereign Palestinian state, there is only the one-state solution, either a democratic secular state or continue as an apartheid Jew-ruled state, like white-ruled South Africa.

You're a bit befuddled. It's not the responsibility of the Israelis to grant or deny self-determination to Arabs-Moslems. It is their failure alone for not being willing or able to establish a functioning society that could seek soverignty.

The current factions of Arabs-Moslems, antagonistic to one another, represent a pattern of societal ills that afflict nations across the middle East. The social, political and gender apartheid practiced by the Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories is represented by most Islamic fascist nations.

 

[MJB12741]

If the Pali's had self determination without Israel to suck off of anymore to provide for them the Pali's would kill each other over who would rule them & starve to death.

 

[Challenger]

If the Pali's had self determination without Israel to suck off of anymore to provide for them the Pali's would kill each other over who would rule them & starve to death.

That's the solution then, get out of Palestine and if what you say happens, you can come back to an empty land, ripe for colonisation...

 

[RoccoR]

Challenger, MJB12741, Hollie, montelatici, et al,

Forget the whining about colonization while the territory was under mandate. That is a false trail.

If the Pali's had self determination without Israel to suck off of anymore to provide for them the Pali's would kill each other over who would rule them & starve to death.

That's the solution then, get out of Palestine and if what you say happens, you can come back to an empty land, ripe for colonisation...

(COMMENT)

The Palestinians have exercised "Self-determination" several times. The idea that some authority, protocol or mechanism restrains the Palestinian from using it is somewhat misleading.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

Challenger, MJB12741, Hollie, montelatici, et al,

Forget the whining about colonization while the territory was under mandate. That is a false trail.

If the Pali's had self determination without Israel to suck off of anymore to provide for them the Pali's would kill each other over who would rule them & starve to death.

That's the solution then, get out of Palestine and if what you say happens, you can come back to an empty land, ripe for colonisation...

(COMMENT)

The Palestinians have exercised "Self-determination" several times. The idea that some authority, protocol or mechanism restrains the Palestinian from using it is somewhat misleading.

Most Respectfully,
R

The only false trail is the one you are trying to blaze, bullshitter.

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ

July 25, 1926

2SHARES


London (Jul. 23)

(Jewish Telegraphic Agency)

“Due to the success of our colonization work in Palestine proper, it is possible that eventually our colonization work will be extended beyond the frontiers of Transjordania. It is true that the Palestine government has not taken a clear stand in regard to its economic policy, but well founded demands have every prospect of being agreed to. A great deal has been achieved during the last months,” Dr. Weizmann said."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ

 

[montelatici]

Challenger, MJB12741, Hollie, montelatici, et al,

Forget the whining about colonization while the territory was under mandate. That is a false trail.

If the Pali's had self determination without Israel to suck off of anymore to provide for them the Pali's would kill each other over who would rule them & starve to death.

That's the solution then, get out of Palestine and if what you say happens, you can come back to an empty land, ripe for colonisation...

(COMMENT)

The Palestinians have exercised "Self-determination" several times. The idea that some authority, protocol or mechanism restrains the Palestinian from using it is somewhat misleading.

Most Respectfully,
R

As for self-determination for the native inhabitants, the British were intent on repressing self-determination of the native Muslims and Christians This was made clear with the Balfour memo to Lord Curzon in 1919, before the Mandate was even implemented.

"For in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country, though the American [King-Crane] Commission has been going through the form of asking what they are. The four great powers are committed to Zionism and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long tradition, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land...."

Christopher Sykes, Crossroads to Israel, 1917-1948 (1965; reprinted Bloomington, Ind

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, there was confusion even then. But, the following year, (1920) while the territory was still under the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration, the Allied Powers met at San Remo and hammered out the structure of the Mandate. While it was not the final last word on the subject, it certainly went a slightly different direction.

As for self-determination for the native inhabitants, the British were intent on repressing self-determination of the native Muslims and Christians This was made clear with the Balfour memo to Lord Curzon in 1919, before the Mandate was even implemented.

"For in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country, though the American [King-Crane] Commission has been going through the form of asking what they are. The four great powers are committed to Zionism and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long tradition, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land...."

Christopher Sykes, Crossroads to Israel, 1917-1948 (1965; reprinted Bloomington, Ind

(COMMENT)

But, again, I do not think it makes much different now. The Israel People are not about to let the International Community place their established National Home in the hand of a corrupt and radicalized Hostile Arab Palestinian failed state.

I don't think that the International Community is going to go to war over the West Bank and Gaza Strip --- any more than they might go to war over the Crimea or Tibet.

So far, no one has really started to address what it would need to keep the sovereign integrity of Israel intact and yet, --- drag the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip out of the muck and mire.

All anyone (particularly the anti-Israeli Camp) is talking about is a continuation of the conflict. And disputes on who is entitled to what. No one is talking on the level of Posting #315, and the moves it would take to appease some of the Arab Palestinian demands. Or how to avoid the consequences of violent and corrupt Arab Palestinians that are choking the life out of the country.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, there was confusion even then. But, the following year, (1920) while the territory was still under the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration, the Allied Powers met at San Remo and hammered out the structure of the Mandate. While it was not the final last word on the subject, it certainly went a slightly different direction.

As for self-determination for the native inhabitants, the British were intent on repressing self-determination of the native Muslims and Christians This was made clear with the Balfour memo to Lord Curzon in 1919, before the Mandate was even implemented.

"For in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country, though the American [King-Crane] Commission has been going through the form of asking what they are. The four great powers are committed to Zionism and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long tradition, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land...."

Christopher Sykes, Crossroads to Israel, 1917-1948 (1965; reprinted Bloomington, Ind

(COMMENT)

But, again, I do not think it makes much different now. The Israel People are not about to let the International Community place their established National Home in the hand of a corrupt and radicalized Hostile Arab Palestinian failed state.

I don't think that the International Community is going to go to war over the West Bank and Gaza Strip --- any more than they might go to war over the Crimea or Tibet.

So far, no one has really started to address what it would need to keep the sovereign integrity of Israel intact and yet, --- drag the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip out of the muck and mire.

All anyone (particularly the anti-Israeli Camp) is talking about is a continuation of the conflict. And disputes on who is entitled to what. No one is talking on the level of Posting #315, and the moves it would take to appease some of the Arab Palestinian demands. Or how to avoid the consequences of violent and corrupt Arab Palestinians that are choking the life out of the country.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Mandate included the requirement to protect the civil rights of the native population. Those civil rights, included self-determination. That right and others were not protected, nor did the British allow the native inhabitants to seek self-determination because doing so would make the colonization of Palestine by Europeans impossible. So, your claim that the Palestinians did not seek to achieve self-determination is ridiculous, the British prevented the Palestinians from seeking self-determination through force of arms and helped the European Jews colonize Palestine through force of arms.

Continued Apartheid rule will induce the international community to begin to replicate the actions of the international community towards white-ruled South Africa. Racists like you said similar things about South Africa early on "the Boers are not about to let the International Community place their established National Home in the hand of corrupt and radicalized Hostile non-white failed state" sic (Rocco does not have English). It took decades, but eventually the Boers were forced to give in.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So far, no one has really started to address what it would need to keep the sovereign integrity of Israel intact and yet, --- drag the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip out of the muck and mire.

Indeed, Israel has really created a problem for itself.

 

[Hollie]

So far, no one has really started to address what it would need to keep the sovereign integrity of Israel intact and yet, --- drag the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip out of the muck and mire.

Indeed, Israel has really created a problem for itself.

Indeed, That's not true. The failure of the Arabs-Moslems to gain sovereignty is theirs alone. For those like you, there is a need for excuses as a means to explain Arab-Moslem inadequacy.

Anyone who has weed whacked their way through islamist history cannot help but notice that the history is one of perpetual war, conquest and violence. There is ample evidence of islam's history of war and conquest. You need to be emotionally and intellectually up to the task to understand that history.

While you obviously missed it, Israel has not created a problem for itself. Israel, by its mere presence in the Middle East, has exposed yet again a pattern of Arab-Moslem fascism.

I think one of the problems encountered by haters such as yours is that there is never any offering of solutions or alternatives. It’s easy to criticize and condemn but of course, that relieves you of the burdensome task of actual desision making and accepting responsibility.

 

[Kondor3]

What he says is that Israel must accept the Arab League's 2002 Peace Initiative. The Palestinians would sign tomorrow. This is what it says:

"A. Complete withdrawal from the occupied Arab territories, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the 4 June 1967 line and the territories still occupied in southern Lebanon.

B. Attain a just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees to be agreed upon in accordance with the UN General Assembly Resolution No 194.

C. Accept the establishment of an independent and sovereign Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since 4 June 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip with East Jerusalem as its capital.

In return the Arab states will do the following:

• Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict over, sign a peace agreement with Israel, and achieve peace for all states in the region

• Establish normal relations with Israel within the framework of this comprehensive peace"

BBC News | MEDIA REPORTS | Text: Beirut Declaration

Pppfffffffffftttttttttt...

Here is what Palestinian promises are good for...

The Two State Solution is dead...

And has been, since 1967...

TIme to end this farce, and drive the little wankers across the Jordan to the eastern bank, where they belong...

 

[montelatici]

The Muslims and Christians of Palestine are not leaving. The Jews can continue operating an Apartheid State or become a secular democracy. It's up to them. The rest of the world will, like it did with Apartheid South Africa, slowly strangle Israel with sanctions, whether the U.S. likes it or not. It might take a decade or 3 decades, but time is on the Palestinian's side.

 

[Hollie]

The Muslims and Christians of Palestine are not leaving. The Jews can continue operating an Apartheid State or become a secular democracy. It's up to them. The rest of the world will, like it did with Apartheid South Africa, slowly strangle Israel with sanctions, whether the U.S. likes it or not. It might take a decade or 3 decades, but time is on the Palestinian's side.

Actually, the Christians of the Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza and the West Bank certainly are leaving. They are being driven out of those Apartheid Islamic controlled territories. Islamic controlled societies have a history of intolerance toward competing religions. It may take only another decade or two but the Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza and the West Bank will be completely purged of the Christians,

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

You never actually defined or gave an example of "Apartheid." This is just another example of the Arab Palestinians appeal to emotions and an attempt to encourage further violence.

The Muslims and Christians of Palestine are not leaving. The Jews can continue operating an Apartheid State or become a secular democracy. It's up to them. The rest of the world will, like it did with Apartheid South Africa, slowly strangle Israel with sanctions, whether the U.S. likes it or not. It might take a decade or 3 decades, but time is on the Palestinian's side.

(COMMENT)

Apartheid South Africa was segregation inside a single domestic venue (inside the State of South Africa). In the case of Israel, the Hostile Arab Palestinians are claiming that Israel has no right to border controls and must allow Hostile Arab Palestinians into Israel. That is no more a legitimate claim than any other of the border controls exercised by the International Community. Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, or Egypt want the Arab Palestinians to have unrestricted access through territorial borders.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

Apartheid South Africa ruled over enclaves called Bantustans whose citizens were under the control of Apartheid South Africa. It is the Hostile Jews that control the equivalents of Bantustans (East Jerusalem, West Bank and Gaza). So stop your bullshitting.

 

[Hollie]

Apartheid South Africa ruled over enclaves called Bantustans whose citizens were under the control of Apartheid South Africa. It is the Hostile Jews that control the equivalents of Bantustans (East Jerusalem, West Bank and Gaza). So stop your bullshitting.

You can draw a direct parallel from your example to Islamic terrorists ruling over enclaves called Gaza and the West Bank whose citizens are currently under control of fascist ideologues who enforce political, religious and gender apartheid. The fascist Arabs-Moslems exert complete control over a population of dwindling non-Moslems being driven out of the territories.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

I don't think you and I will ever really see Eye-to-Eye.

Apartheid South Africa ruled over enclaves called Bantustans whose citizens were under the control of Apartheid South Africa. It is the Hostile Jews that control the equivalents of Bantustans (East Jerusalem, West Bank and Gaza). So stop your bullshitting.

(COMMENT)

In terms of the "Gaza Strip," it is a classic example of how the Palestinians want to have it both ways. On the one hand, they claim complete control --- and --- on the other hand, they want to claim they are occupied in order to continue bloodthirsty Jihad and skimming Donor Contribution funding.

Hamas takes control of Gaza
theguardian news, Conal Urquart in Ramallah, Ian Black and Mark Tran Friday 15 June 2007

Hamas fighters today basked in triumph after taking complete control in Gaza as the west scrambled for a response to the arrival of Islamist power on Israel's doorstep.

In a stark demonstration of the new facts on the ground, a masked Hamas fighter sat down at the desk of the Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, also known as Abu Mazen, and declared an end to the western-backed authority in the Gazastrip.

In an imaginary telephone call to the US, a fighter from the Islamist movement's armed wing, Izz el-Deen al-Qassam, joked: "Hello Condoleezza Rice. You have to deal with me now, there is no Abu Mazen anymore."

In one of its first assertions of authority, Hamas called for the immediate release of the BBC Gaza correspondent, Alan Johnston, who was seized in March.

"He is a guest of the Palestinian people," a masked Hamas official said at a news conference.
​

In terms of East Jerusalem is concerned, al-Jazeera (America) News articulates one of the standard arguments:

In 1980, Israeli Knesset passed the Jerusalem Law, which states that “Jerusalem, complete and united, is the capital of Israel.” However, United Nations Security Council Resolution 478, adopted by 14 votes to none, with an abstention from the US, declared the law "null and void." No foreign country today has an embassy in Jerusalem.
​

The UNSC Resolution does not actually order anything under Chapter VII. What it does say is that it opposes the "Basic Law." The Basic Law is an Israeli Domestic Law.

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.
​

Remember, the Israeli Basic Law comes several years before the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) even makes it Declaration of Independence. There is a question as to how all these various factors come into play. Can Israel take an action today which is legal, and then the International Community come afterward to make a law that declares yesterday's action is illegal. All of this needs to be litigated or resolved by the dispute resolution process. It was not a dispute between Israel and the International Community, it was a 1980 dispute between Israel and "non-state" actors (PLO); one of the most despicable radical Islamic terrorist responsible for the 1972 Olympic Massacre. These non-sate actors of terrorism were directly supported by the Arab League. There are many mitigating circumstances that were not considered in the UN Security Council Process, that need to be articulated in the litigation process as "just cause." This would include the Treaties.

What can be said about the West Bank that has not been said before? Two important issues:

•• The issue of the application of Terra Nullius over the territory during the period 31 July 1988 and 15 November 1988.

•• The question must be asked: What sovereign power had control over the West Bank during the period 31 July 1988 and 15 November 1988?
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MJB12741]

So far, no one has really started to address what it would need to keep the sovereign integrity of Israel intact and yet, --- drag the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip out of the muck and mire.

Indeed, Israel has really created a problem for itself.

Yes. And Israel can end it by finding some incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant a right of return to their Palestinians.