No historical Jesus

[shimon]

you realize that the letter J has only been around for a few centuries that the name Jesus is also a few centuries old....I could point out other discrepancies but I prefer people to use their abilities to figure things out for themselves....The gospels are not unbiased. historical documents and they have been tampered with many times but johnny come latelies who have pushed their own agendas so in my humble opinion they are not worth the paper they are written on but it is your perogative to believe what you may....

 

[HaShev]

I agree with you until the last paragraph.
This thread and my postings have nothing to do with the validity of Christianity.

I believe the OP is concerned with politics and not religion.

Nope. Unfortunately Guno is an obsessive hater of Christianity.
I separate TNT from the atrocities committed by TRCC as TNT does not promote violence.

Indeependent: "Unfortunately Guno is an obsessive hater of Christianity".

As you are, you claim objectivity yet you spew diatribes and blame worthy assignations in your references to Christianity or the teachings of Jesus.

You have not addressed the OP but apply your contrived version of what you wish it to be without a scintilla of proof proclaiming you are an expert without qualification stating you have an advanced degree in a field of study no one has ever heard of yet dismiss true experts in the field who are qualified scholastically, through performance and are recognized as such in their field by their peers.

After your scheme is uncovered and your position is shown to be a sham you get angry and start to strike out at those who oppose your poorly formed and orchestrated derailment of this thread. You simply are not as intelligent, urbane or sophisticated as you make yourself out to be and it shows in woefully obvious manners in almost every one of your posts in this thread.

My position still stands, I have produced several recognized and accepted sources that establish there is a Historical Jesus. Can you respond to this or should I just leave you alone to carry with the aforementioned activity?

You are lying, you showed testimony of a christ not of Jesus and you ignored your error.
You also used Josephus as reference even though it's proven to be a later forgery.
There were many christs so tell us which historical figure are you calling Jesus?
If he was historical then you'd have no problem
giving us a Hebrew name, a birthdate, a profession,
era he lived in, height, age he lived till, method of punishment used, and historical person from his era.
Get your popcorn ready people, this is gonna be entertaining.

Nope I stand by all my offers showing there was a historical Jesus all of which have been vetted by "qualified" experts and educators in that field. Read the accompanying links for any further information you need.

sorry wrong non answer:
which means with what I said: " If he was historical then you'd have no problem"
You've shown the worst of problems, the inability to even give us a single Hebrew name, nor answer any of those simple questions.
He's so real to you that you show how lazy you are in defending him. I've seen atheists give more effort in defending him then you have with your non answer.

 

[Esmeralda]

you realize that the letter J has only been around for a few centuries that the name Jesus is also a few centuries old....I could point out other discrepancies but I prefer people to use their abilities to figure things out for themselves....The gospels are not unbiased. historical documents and they have been tampered with many times but johnny come latelies who have pushed their own agendas so in my humble opinion they are not worth the paper they are written on but it is your perogative to believe what you may....

And yet the Old Testament is even older and less reliable.

 

[Alex.]

I believe the OP is concerned with politics and not religion.

Nope. Unfortunately Guno is an obsessive hater of Christianity.
I separate TNT from the atrocities committed by TRCC as TNT does not promote violence.

Indeependent: "Unfortunately Guno is an obsessive hater of Christianity".

As you are, you claim objectivity yet you spew diatribes and blame worthy assignations in your references to Christianity or the teachings of Jesus.

You have not addressed the OP but apply your contrived version of what you wish it to be without a scintilla of proof proclaiming you are an expert without qualification stating you have an advanced degree in a field of study no one has ever heard of yet dismiss true experts in the field who are qualified scholastically, through performance and are recognized as such in their field by their peers.

After your scheme is uncovered and your position is shown to be a sham you get angry and start to strike out at those who oppose your poorly formed and orchestrated derailment of this thread. You simply are not as intelligent, urbane or sophisticated as you make yourself out to be and it shows in woefully obvious manners in almost every one of your posts in this thread.

My position still stands, I have produced several recognized and accepted sources that establish there is a Historical Jesus. Can you respond to this or should I just leave you alone to carry with the aforementioned activity?

You are lying, you showed testimony of a christ not of Jesus and you ignored your error.
You also used Josephus as reference even though it's proven to be a later forgery.
There were many christs so tell us which historical figure are you calling Jesus?
If he was historical then you'd have no problem
giving us a Hebrew name, a birthdate, a profession,
era he lived in, height, age he lived till, method of punishment used, and historical person from his era.
Get your popcorn ready people, this is gonna be entertaining.

Nope I stand by all my offers showing there was a historical Jesus all of which have been vetted by "qualified" experts and educators in that field. Read the accompanying links for any further information you need.

sorry wrong non answer:
which means with what I said: " If he was historical then you'd have no problem"
You've shown the worst of problems, the inability to even give us a single Hebrew name, nor answer any of those simple questions.
He's so real to you that you show how lazy you are in defending him. I've seen atheists give more effort in defending him then you have with your non answer.

I provided the correct answer should you wish to be considered as an expert provide your qualifications.

 

[browsing deer]

Jesus to me is the amalgamation of several texts. He died in 30 ad during the reign of Tiberius and his adherents were annoying to Claudius and Nero. It makes sense his adherents were annoying Roman authorities during the time of Josephes.

One of the sources for Jesus was his contemporary, Hilliel. There are several places in the gospels which seem direct quotes from Hilliel.

Later Christian scholars made him dour and nasty, but the gospels portray a kind forgiving man with a sense of humor and a taste for silly puns

 

[HaShev]

Nope. Unfortunately Guno is an obsessive hater of Christianity.
I separate TNT from the atrocities committed by TRCC as TNT does not promote violence.

Indeependent: "Unfortunately Guno is an obsessive hater of Christianity".

As you are, you claim objectivity yet you spew diatribes and blame worthy assignations in your references to Christianity or the teachings of Jesus.

You have not addressed the OP but apply your contrived version of what you wish it to be without a scintilla of proof proclaiming you are an expert without qualification stating you have an advanced degree in a field of study no one has ever heard of yet dismiss true experts in the field who are qualified scholastically, through performance and are recognized as such in their field by their peers.

After your scheme is uncovered and your position is shown to be a sham you get angry and start to strike out at those who oppose your poorly formed and orchestrated derailment of this thread. You simply are not as intelligent, urbane or sophisticated as you make yourself out to be and it shows in woefully obvious manners in almost every one of your posts in this thread.

My position still stands, I have produced several recognized and accepted sources that establish there is a Historical Jesus. Can you respond to this or should I just leave you alone to carry with the aforementioned activity?

You are lying, you showed testimony of a christ not of Jesus and you ignored your error.
You also used Josephus as reference even though it's proven to be a later forgery.
There were many christs so tell us which historical figure are you calling Jesus?
If he was historical then you'd have no problem
giving us a Hebrew name, a birthdate, a profession,
era he lived in, height, age he lived till, method of punishment used, and historical person from his era.
Get your popcorn ready people, this is gonna be entertaining.

Nope I stand by all my offers showing there was a historical Jesus all of which have been vetted by "qualified" experts and educators in that field. Read the accompanying links for any further information you need.

sorry wrong non answer:
which means with what I said: " If he was historical then you'd have no problem"
You've shown the worst of problems, the inability to even give us a single Hebrew name, nor answer any of those simple questions.
He's so real to you that you show how lazy you are in defending him. I've seen atheists give more effort in defending him then you have with your non answer.

I provided the correct answer should you wish to be considered as an expert provide your qualifications.

Still the wrong answer and worse call into play the same standard for your historians and writers, now you are required to detail their qualifications.

If you must know, some of my resources are used even by Harvard, Oxford, and Yale theology
professors.
My essay on "search for the historical Jesus" was the inspiration and partial source of the Late
Peter Jennings special by the same name.
It's why there is a picture of George Bush carrying a Talmud floating around and why his father visited the Pope soon after.

Now once again answer the most simplest of questions before you really make a fool out of your faith.
*Someone pass the popcorn salt please.*

 

[shimon]

Not so Esmeralda the scriptures or torah is written carefully letter by letter and it takes a long time to copy it...If it deviates in any fashion it is thrown out...it is very very close to the originals.....The so called old testament that is in use today was translated by non hebrews and it has been altered in many ways by many different groups and peoples.... but say you are correct what is your point we do not worship anyman as gd and all the stories of the torah depict every man and women in there with all their human flaws for all to see...

 

[HaShev]

Jesus to me is the amalgamation of several texts. He died in 30 ad during the reign of Tiberius and his adherents were annoying to Claudius and Nero. It makes sense his adherents were annoying Roman authorities during the time of Josephes.

One of the sources for Jesus was his contemporary, Hilliel. There are several places in the gospels which seem direct quotes from Hilliel.

Later Christian scholars made him dour and nasty, but the gospels portray a kind forgiving man with a sense of humor and a taste for silly puns

That would be Christ Theudas the one by the Jordan who's apostles were Martyred...died in 45ad the NT said in John he was closer to 50 so the 33 year old figure is proof there is more then one persona being compiled thus given a new name & birthdate..
This is also why they won't answer the simple question as to what their christs Hebrew name?

 

[Alex.]

Indeependent: "Unfortunately Guno is an obsessive hater of Christianity".

As you are, you claim objectivity yet you spew diatribes and blame worthy assignations in your references to Christianity or the teachings of Jesus.

You have not addressed the OP but apply your contrived version of what you wish it to be without a scintilla of proof proclaiming you are an expert without qualification stating you have an advanced degree in a field of study no one has ever heard of yet dismiss true experts in the field who are qualified scholastically, through performance and are recognized as such in their field by their peers.

After your scheme is uncovered and your position is shown to be a sham you get angry and start to strike out at those who oppose your poorly formed and orchestrated derailment of this thread. You simply are not as intelligent, urbane or sophisticated as you make yourself out to be and it shows in woefully obvious manners in almost every one of your posts in this thread.

My position still stands, I have produced several recognized and accepted sources that establish there is a Historical Jesus. Can you respond to this or should I just leave you alone to carry with the aforementioned activity?

You are lying, you showed testimony of a christ not of Jesus and you ignored your error.
You also used Josephus as reference even though it's proven to be a later forgery.
There were many christs so tell us which historical figure are you calling Jesus?
If he was historical then you'd have no problem
giving us a Hebrew name, a birthdate, a profession,
era he lived in, height, age he lived till, method of punishment used, and historical person from his era.
Get your popcorn ready people, this is gonna be entertaining.

Nope I stand by all my offers showing there was a historical Jesus all of which have been vetted by "qualified" experts and educators in that field. Read the accompanying links for any further information you need.

sorry wrong non answer:
which means with what I said: " If he was historical then you'd have no problem"
You've shown the worst of problems, the inability to even give us a single Hebrew name, nor answer any of those simple questions.
He's so real to you that you show how lazy you are in defending him. I've seen atheists give more effort in defending him then you have with your non answer.

I provided the correct answer should you wish to be considered as an expert provide your qualifications.

Still the wrong answer and worse call into play the same standard for your historians and writers, now you are required to detail their qualifications.

If you must know, some of my resources are used even by Harvard, Oxford, and Yale theology
professors.
My essay on "search for the historical Jesus" was the inspiration and partial source of the Late
Peter Jennings special by the same name.
It's why there is a picture of George Bush carrying a Talmud floating around and why his father visited the Pope soon after.

Now once again answer the most simplest of questions before you really make a fool out of your faith.
*Someone pass the popcorn salt please.*

you really make a fool out of your faith

The OP is about the historical Jesus not my faith.

 

[browsing deer]

Jesus to me is the amalgamation of several texts. He died in 30 ad during the reign of Tiberius and his adherents were annoying to Claudius and Nero. It makes sense his adherents were annoying Roman authorities during the time of Josephes.

One of the sources for Jesus was his contemporary, Hilliel. There are several places in the gospels which seem direct quotes from Hilliel.

Later Christian scholars made him dour and nasty, but the gospels portray a kind forgiving man with a sense of humor and a taste for silly puns

That would be Christ Theudas the one by the Jordan who's apostles were Martyred...died in 45ad the NT said in John he was closer to 50 so the 33 year old figure is proof there is more then one persona being compiled thus given a new name & birthdate..
This is also why they won't answer the simple question as to what their christs Hebrew name?

Joshua of course.

You have to realise that the guys name in hebrew is something they aren't interested in, and could not pronounce correctly if they did care. His name got transliterated to greek, then Latin. It got further mangled when it got re pronounced in English. Asking what his name was in Hebrew when it passed through 5 languages is pointless and stupid.

 

[Indeependent]

I agree with you until the last paragraph.
This thread and my postings have nothing to do with the validity of Christianity.

I believe the OP is concerned with politics and not religion.

Nope. Unfortunately Guno is an obsessive hater of Christianity.
I separate TNT from the atrocities committed by TRCC as TNT does not promote violence.

Indeependent: "Unfortunately Guno is an obsessive hater of Christianity".

As you are, you claim objectivity yet you spew diatribes and blame worthy assignations in your references to Christianity or the teachings of Jesus.

You have not addressed the OP but apply your contrived version of what you wish it to be without a scintilla of proof proclaiming you are an expert without qualification stating you have an advanced degree in a field of study no one has ever heard of yet dismiss true experts in the field who are qualified scholastically, through performance and are recognized as such in their field by their peers.

After your scheme is uncovered and your position is shown to be a sham you get angry and start to strike out at those who oppose your poorly formed and orchestrated derailment of this thread. You simply are not as intelligent, urbane or sophisticated as you make yourself out to be and it shows in woefully obvious manners in almost every one of your posts in this thread.

My position still stands, I have produced several recognized and accepted sources that establish there is a Historical Jesus. Can you respond to this or should I just leave you alone to carry with the aforementioned activity?

You have to work on the ad hominem thing.
You attended a University and should be able to present evidence objectively.

I have regarding the OP and analysis of who and what you are and how that skews your POV regarding the OP is spot on.

No one would long for Jesus more than an Orthodox Jew; that's why I studied TNT.
Heck...No Shabbos, eat anything I want, no losing vacation days at work, don't have to pray 3 times daily, simply believe in the Calvary.
Who wouldn't want THAT?!
That's why I was so shocked and disappointed at all the misquotes and mistranslations when TNT refers to TJS.
And learning that the Cannon wasn't chronological and why The Book Of James was Canonized at the end of TNT.
I was HOPING there was a Jesus and I was let down.

 

[HaShev]

Jesus to me is the amalgamation of several texts. He died in 30 ad during the reign of Tiberius and his adherents were annoying to Claudius and Nero. It makes sense his adherents were annoying Roman authorities during the time of Josephes.

One of the sources for Jesus was his contemporary, Hilliel. There are several places in the gospels which seem direct quotes from Hilliel.

Later Christian scholars made him dour and nasty, but the gospels portray a kind forgiving man with a sense of humor and a taste for silly puns

That would be Christ Theudas the one by the Jordan who's apostles were Martyred...died in 45ad the NT said in John he was closer to 50 so the 33 year old figure is proof there is more then one persona being compiled thus given a new name & birthdate..
This is also why they won't answer the simple question as to what their christs Hebrew name?

Joshua of course.

You have to realise that the guys name in hebrew is something they aren't interested in, and could not pronounce correctly if they did care. His name got transliterated to greek, then Latin. It got further mangled when it got re pronounced in English. Asking what his name was in Hebrew when it passed through 5 languages is pointless and stupid.

1) it's far from being stupid, the result from their many answers and non answers ate very very important to getting to the historical from the legend.
2) Yohoshua(hosea) was the name of Yeshu's mentor Rabbi Yohoshua ben *Parachyah (spelling?)
and he was not a Christ figure and existed in 100bc.
3) Yohoshua ben Chananiah is a Rabbi in the Tanakh who taught about the process of Resurrection including mentioning the Lux bone used to extract entact DNA used in successful cloning.
He was also not a Messianic figure and predated The Christian era...however he's probably used in plagiarism or through confusion as part of the Jesus persona or resurrection concept.

Now you know why it's essential to have a name.
The Greek name given IeSous= means the swine.
Rome had 2 revolting Christs they'd tongue in cheek deem that. Yehuda of Galilee who died in 6bc thus Herodcand Lysanias era, and Theudas by the Jordan of 45ad in the Pilate era.
By naming names you see Jesus is an image of all 3 and morecthus given a new name and fallaciously changed birth date and age of death.
Example they say 33 yet John says close to 50.

 

[Indeependent]

i beg to disagree some people have recorded their lineages and they go back thousands of years even further back then two thousand years...If Jesus was so important and he exsisted then those people would have kept records as well....The stories are embellishments, fables and a mish mash of conjecture...Even the gospels contradict each other...No at the best it is a tale tale at the most it is a bald faced lie and it has become accepted as truth even though there is no proof whatsoever...Regardless people just accept it either because they have group pride and affiliation or they are brainwashed or they are just too lazy to figure things out for themselves....

They DID keep records! It's mostly the New Testament now! But there is a video on YouTube from a guy who presents non-religious evidence of Jesus' existence. People have written books about it as well... all of this is being dismissed.

I'm not here to defend the Gospels, this debate is strictly over whether or not Jesus existed. Your own common sense should tell you that he must have. How in the hell could someone who never existed, have been so widely written about in such detail and have such a profound effect on humanity for 2,000 years? In the past, there have always been skeptics of whether Jesus was the Messiah or could do miracles... but the notion of Jesus not existing is relatively new and it comes about because we're now 2,000 years removed from the time.

Waxing bullshit again?
He was written about by ONE GUY at least 30 years AFTER the event.
In fact, TNT was a MAJOR fail until the Counsel of Nicaea 300 years LATER.
Damn, don't you do ANY research before posting?

 

[Penelope]

Your right but we call him Jesus of Nazareth, the man from Galilee. Common name back then and in the time of the OT. I believe there was a special man called Jesus and was a walking preacher, with a following. He is anti the Jews money making scheme at the Temple in Jerusalem of which he seldom went for fear of his life, rightly so as the head Jews had the Romans put him to death.

Yes he had a huge following. Greeks had virgin births not Jews, and Persian Priests came to see him and give him gifts, not Jews. He did not deny being a Samaritan (which at the time were the real Jews), like he said , watch out for those who say they are Jews but are not. He said the Jews father was the devil and they did not know his Father, so while I do not believe in the virgin birth, I mean then we'd have to believe Zeus was the Father of Alexander, and I don't , or that Gods mated with earth women which I don't, but yes I do this the man Jesus, was The Son of God, whoever God is, and through the man Jesus the God of Peace shown through . I mean in Hebrew a son of god meant someone close to god, a prophet, well Jesus was "the son" of God, the closest prophet of the Creator. Most of this is all according to scripture.

There is nothing outside of the Scripture to prove any of this really or who any of the authors of the books were.

You can't have a God without man, so we have the trinity. Really something you Jews do not understand.

 

[Indeependent]

you realize that the letter J has only been around for a few centuries that the name Jesus is also a few centuries old....I could point out other discrepancies but I prefer people to use their abilities to figure things out for themselves....The gospels are not unbiased. historical documents and they have been tampered with many times but johnny come latelies who have pushed their own agendas so in my humble opinion they are not worth the paper they are written on but it is your perogative to believe what you may....

And yet the Old Testament is even older and less reliable.

And yet NOT ONE Jew is proselytizing you or claiming it's proof of ANYTHING.
Wait a minute, I posted this YESTERDAY!

 

[Indeependent]

Your right but we call him Jesus of Nazareth, the man from Galilee. Common name back then and in the time of the OT. I believe there was a special man called Jesus and was a walking preacher, with a following. He is anti the Jews money making scheme at the Temple in Jerusalem of which he seldom went for fear of his life, rightly so as the head Jews had the Romans put him to death.

Yes he had a huge following. Greeks had virgin births not Jews, and Persian Priests came to see him and give him gifts, not Jews. He did not deny being a Samaritan (which at the time were the real Jews), like he said , watch out for those who say they are Jews but are not. He said the Jews father was the devil and they did not know his Father, so while I do not believe in the virgin birth, I mean then we'd have to believe Zeus was the Father of Alexander, and I don't , or that Gods mated with earth women which I don't, but yes I do this the man Jesus, was The Son of God, whoever God is, and through the man Jesus the God of Peace shown through . I mean in Hebrew a son of god meant someone close to god, a prophet, well Jesus was "the son" of God, the closest prophet of the Creator. Most of this is all according to scripture.

There is nothing outside of the Scripture to prove any of this really or who any of the authors of the books were.

A crowd of 5,000 is NOT BIG.

 

[Boss]

you realize that the letter J has only been around for a few centuries

You do realize that English language didn't exist in Biblical times, right?

If I went back in my time machine and asked people where I could find Jesus, they would just look at me funny... even if it was Jesus. The language spoken was completely different. But when we are discussing something, in English, in 2015... we use English words that have been translated.

Now you know.

 

[HaShev]

i beg to disagree some people have recorded their lineages and they go back thousands of years even further back then two thousand years...If Jesus was so important and he exsisted then those people would have kept records as well....The stories are embellishments, fables and a mish mash of conjecture...Even the gospels contradict each other...No at the best it is a tale tale at the most it is a bald faced lie and it has become accepted as truth even though there is no proof whatsoever...Regardless people just accept it either because they have group pride and affiliation or they are brainwashed or they are just too lazy to figure things out for themselves....

They DID keep records! It's mostly the New Testament now! But there is a video on YouTube from a guy who presents non-religious evidence of Jesus' existence. People have written books about it as well... all of this is being dismissed.

I'm not here to defend the Gospels, this debate is strictly over whether or not Jesus existed. Your own common sense should tell you that he must have. How in the hell could someone who never existed, have been so widely written about in such detail and have such a profound effect on humanity for 2,000 years? In the past, there have always been skeptics of whether Jesus was the Messiah or could do miracles... but the notion of Jesus not existing is relatively new and it comes about because we're now 2,000 years removed from the time.

Waxing bullshit again?
He was written about by ONE GUY at least 30 years AFTER the event.
In fact, TNT was a MAJOR fail until the Counsel of Nicaea 300 years LATER.
Damn, don't you do ANY research before posting?

And it wasn't till that time period where copies of Josephus magically appear Jesus in them out of context as if placed in.
Before the great liar forger Eusebius the copies had no mention of Jesus, just the 2 Christs I mention as being spun into the Jesus image.

 

[Indeependent]

you realize that the letter J has only been around for a few centuries

You do realize that English language didn't exist in Biblical times, right?

If I went back in my time machine and asked people where I could find Jesus, they would just look at me funny... even if it was Jesus. The language spoken was completely different. But when we are discussing something, in English, in 2015... we use English words that have been translated.

Now you know.

Excellent! Now THAT is a good starting point.

 

[Indeependent]

i beg to disagree some people have recorded their lineages and they go back thousands of years even further back then two thousand years...If Jesus was so important and he exsisted then those people would have kept records as well....The stories are embellishments, fables and a mish mash of conjecture...Even the gospels contradict each other...No at the best it is a tale tale at the most it is a bald faced lie and it has become accepted as truth even though there is no proof whatsoever...Regardless people just accept it either because they have group pride and affiliation or they are brainwashed or they are just too lazy to figure things out for themselves....

They DID keep records! It's mostly the New Testament now! But there is a video on YouTube from a guy who presents non-religious evidence of Jesus' existence. People have written books about it as well... all of this is being dismissed.

I'm not here to defend the Gospels, this debate is strictly over whether or not Jesus existed. Your own common sense should tell you that he must have. How in the hell could someone who never existed, have been so widely written about in such detail and have such a profound effect on humanity for 2,000 years? In the past, there have always been skeptics of whether Jesus was the Messiah or could do miracles... but the notion of Jesus not existing is relatively new and it comes about because we're now 2,000 years removed from the time.

Waxing bullshit again?
He was written about by ONE GUY at least 30 years AFTER the event.
In fact, TNT was a MAJOR fail until the Counsel of Nicaea 300 years LATER.
Damn, don't you do ANY research before posting?

And it wasn't till that time period where copies of Josephus magically appear Jesus in them out of context as if placed in.
Before the great liar forger Eusebius the copies had no mention of Jesus, just the 2 Christs I mention as being spun into the Jesus image.

I posted that yesterday. I first encountered that back on the Excite message boards back in 1998.