Why would she after the behavior of our president and Netanyahu? And perhaps you could explain why you refer to her as an Islamist or just admit it's your pig-ignorant bias showing.
Newly Elected Muslim Congresswomen Favor Eliminating Israel
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Why would she after the behavior of our president and Netanyahu? And perhaps you could explain why you refer to her as an Islamist or just admit it's your pig-ignorant bias showing.
Their condemnation of Arab-islamic nations and of Gaza and the West Bank has amounted to crickets chirping.
Anything yet on their condemnation of islamic terrorist attacks aimed at Israel?
Excusing acts of Islamic terrorism because you don't like the president is petty.
Have you noticed thst your argument is reduced to petulant name-calling?
Shusha
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You didn't quote the rest of the tweet, where she admonished us that we shouldn't let human rights distract us from the "occupation". (paraphrased)
What should have been a simple tweet: "I condemn Palestine for this violation of LGBTQ+ rights, which is a violation of human rights," instead became yet another opportunity to remind her followers that Israel is evil and that the only violation of human rights which really matter are those committed by Israel. She uses human rights violations by Palestine to amplify her demonization of Israel.
Nor did you quote Omar's response to being called out on this, which was to quote alQaws on "Five Ways to Support Palestinian Queers" which includes this statement:
and this:
Both of the above statements tie Palestinian human rights violations to Israel, as though Israel must own responsibility for the actions of Palestinians, within Palestine, under the government of Palestine. It postulates that while anti-LGBTQ+ violations of human rights in other countries may have other causes and may not be responsive to Israel (note Omar's comments on Brunei) , somehow Palestinian anti-LGBTQ+ violations of human rights are directly tied to "oppression" by Israel. This is a classic manifestation of antisemitism where Jews are regarded as undermining the moral and structural fiber of civilization.
AND did you catch the glaring omission here? (No, its not addressed in the other three statements).
No, I didn't, I did link to the source so you could read it in entirety.
What should have been a simple tweet: "I condemn Palestine for this violation of LGBTQ+ rights, which is a violation of human rights," instead became yet another opportunity to remind her followers that Israel is evil and that the only violation of human rights which really matter are those committed by Israel. She uses human rights violations by Palestine to amplify her demonization of Israel.
Nor did you quote Omar's response to being called out on this, which was to quote alQaws on "Five Ways to Support Palestinian Queers" which includes this statement:
and this:
Both of the above statements tie Palestinian human rights violations to Israel, as though Israel must own responsibility for the actions of Palestinians, within Palestine, under the government of Palestine. It postulates that while anti-LGBTQ+ violations of human rights in other countries may have other causes and may not be responsive to Israel (note Omar's comments on Brunei) , somehow Palestinian anti-LGBTQ+ violations of human rights are directly tied to "oppression" by Israel. This is a classic manifestation of antisemitism where Jews are regarded as undermining the moral and structural fiber of civilization.
AND did you catch the glaring omission here? (No, its not addressed in the other three statements).
That is her view, and - I don't agree with it - BUT - it does not detract from the fact she does support LGBTQ rights, and she does, rightfully in some cases, call Israel-supporters out on their constant tropes of negatively portraying Palistinians, which does in fact occur. She has a point with that.
Now - Holly also said she and Tlaib are Islamists. I was bringing up the political positions those two woman (note - they are not Islamists masquerading as US representatives, they are American citizens, elected to be U.S. Representatives) to point out that it's rather difficult to reconcile her constant refrences to them as Islamists and terrorists when they support women's rights and LGBTQ rights and would likely be shot on sight by your average Islamic extremists.
I'm still waiting on some explanation from you on how they are Islamists and I'm betting it will be as empty as the attempts to portray them as terrorists by that creature pretending to be the President of the United States.
Once we establish that, we can move on to other things. Don't make stupid ass comments if you don't want to be called out on them.
They're Muslims. What did everyone expect?
EduardBernstein
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Nazi Americans, and Nazi Palestinians are about to tie for first place for their terrorist Jewish killings.
I’m still waiting for you to address my comments relative to the article I linked to. You decided to launch into various tirades that include false equivalencies and pointless name-calling.
And of course historically ignorant some idiot has chime with (gasoline) Nazi comparisons.
Just as a frame of reference, and an indication of the bottomless depth of this ignorance...let’s look at the figures.
The Nazi’s murdered approx 6 million Jews (and an additional number of other assorted “inferior” groups). 2 out of 3 European Jews died. That is 2/3 of Europe’s Jewish population.
In the Israeli Palestinian conflict, the tally is just a little different.
How many Jews killed by Palestinians? A drop in the bucket compared to the Holocaust and far outnumbered by the number of Palestinians killed.
EduardBernstein
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In the here and now the Palestinians, and Americans are both the biggest Jew killers. It every case it is the Nazis.
List of attacks on Jewish institutions in the United States - Wikipedia
Oh please. Take your whining elsewhere. If you throw out idiotic claims expect to be called on it. It falls in the same category as evil Jews orchestrating world domination.
Oh brother. There is a territorial conflict in Israel/Palestine, that is nuanced, complex and long standing. To compare it to the vile acts of rampant antisemites who call themselves Nazi’s because they have found themselves swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool and need a scapegoat is a fallacy. And none even begins to approach the magnitude of the Holocaust.
The only whining I’m reading is your apparent hurt feelings at being called out for entering a thread with off-topic comments and when that was brought to your attention, you launched into name-calling tantrums.
My goodness. You still can’t support your claims. You made them, now you are hiding behind topic control. Maybe you need to recall the first part of the topic: newly elected congresswomen,
I did support my claims. You’re attempting to excuse your thread spam with off-topic banter.
This might be the appropriate place for more of your name-calling.
Shusha
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Well. Sort of.
She supports LGBTQ+ rights as an excuse to deliberately amplify Israel's supposed "evil".
She supports LGBTQ+ rights but blames the violation of those rights as a product of the "occupation".
She supports LGBTQ+ rights but won't call out Palestine, specifically, as a violator of those rights.
She supports LGBTQ+ rights while giving Palestine a "pass" because ... JOOOOOOs.
She supports LGBTQ+ rights while weaponizing those rights against Israel.
So, meh. As I said before, the tweet should have read: "I condemn Palestine's violation of LGBTQ+ rights as a violation of human rights." Full stop.
Does she? Does she also call out violent jihadists? Because that was Hollie's point. And I just checked her twitter feed and so far, nope, nope. Which leaves us to understand what?! about her? That she is presenting a balanced and critical view of the nuanced Arab/Israel conflict? Going with a strong 'no' on that one.
I would suggest that the term "Islamist" itself is a rather murky term and that neither you, nor I, nor Hollie for that matter, have enough information on Tlaib and Omar's religious beliefs to know for certain one way or another if they are Islamists.
That said, it is a derogatory term and as far as I know is fair use in Zone Two. Have I not got that right? Certainly, plenty of people on both sides use derogatory terms, and "Islamist" is far from the worst of them.
And that said, I hear you, and agree, that we shouldn't be throwing around terms like "Islamist" lightly. And should be mindful of the language that we use. I would prefer if everyone stopped using them, but shrug, my preferred forum with cleaner rules no longer exists and I'm stuck here.
And that said, Hollie, imo, uses inflammatory terms like this intentionally to call attention to the fact that SO MANY on Team Palestine justify, misdirect or excuse Arab, Muslim and Palestinian violence, that it is necessary to amplify it just to have it acknowledged.
And all that said, both Omar and Tlaib are extremely selective as to which values they uphold and which they condemn, largely based on, well, Israel. They are upset at a barrier which was erected as a direct response Palestinians shooting and killing Jews, labeling the WALL as dehumanizing, rather than actually killing people as dehumanizing. (Honestly, can you think of a thing more dehumanizing than "I am permitted to kill you for just existing in "my" space?)
What is that, if not Islamist? To suggest that the erection of a barrier between yourself and people who are actively actually killing you is a violation of human rights? How is that not Islamist?
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She supportS LGBQT rightwing the US without question. Her detractors are wanting her to denounce Palestinian rights because of their track record on LGBTQ issues because, after all they are Moooooslimes. There are two separate issues but they want to force her to conflate them.
Does she need to? No one else is compelled to. Should those who criticize Palestinians be called onto criticize bad behavior on Israel’s part? They aren’t. She has HER point of view (Tlaib and Omar) Does Holly denounce Israel’s settlement policies and absentee land owner thefts? So somehow it is incumbent upon Muslims to denounce the bad behavior of their religious peers but no one else needs to. And they get labeled terrorists and Islamists to boot.
Actually, I disagree. We know enough about what they stand for from their public life and personal histories to know they are not Islamists. Far leftists. Yes. Frankly that is a cop out defense and it makes me wonder. If they weren’t Mooooskimes, but were Jewish and strongly pro Israel...would you say they were radical Zionists?
Holly uses derogatory terms because because she hates Muslims. It is evident in all her postings, even when the topic has nothing to do with Muslims. She is no different than the rabid anti semites on this board. Why do you make excuses for her?
Walls are dehumanizing. And you forget on the other side...or perhaps on each side of the wall,are thousands of ordinary people just trying to exist. People who are not the subhuman animals some like to portray them as.
Is it Islamist? Well I challenge that. You are buying into the same false tropes as those perpetrated by the anti semites only they call it Zionists.
Name calling complaints from someone like you? Do read your own posts? Again. Don’t make claims and then pretend you need to suddenly get back on topic. I am on topic with those Congresswomen.
Shusha
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I'm having difficulty following this paragraph. I want Omar to call out anti-LGBTQ+ where ever she see it. When Palestine outlaws LGBTQ+, she should condemn that. Without reservation or add-ons or amplification of "but the Jooooos".
Again, "I condemn Palestine for its violation of LGBTQ+ rights which is a violation of human rights". Full stop.
Why are you pushing back on this? I don't get it.
Yeah. She needs to. Yeah. Everyone else is compelled to. Yeah, if you want to be outspoken about the Arab/Israel conflict, you gotta criticize bad behaviour where ever you see it. Specifically, Hollie was suggesting that Omar (and you) really should condemn Hamas for shooting rockets indiscriminately at Israel and her civilians. And HELL YES! should Israel EVER DO SUCH A HORRIFIC THING I would fully expect Hollie and all other Jews and Israelis and Arabs and Muslims and every other decent person on the planet to condemn that behaviour.
No, she doesn't. And she doesn't have to. Why? Because murdering people and people living in a place (especially one they are indigenous to) are not MORALLY EQUIVALENT. (And its kinda gross to equivalize them, actually.) Are you denouncing Arabs living in Israel?! Then why should you expect me or Hollie to denounce Jews living in Palestine? Your comparisons are asinine.
Nope. Everyone needs to. And if the shoe fits....
I think you mean radical Jews, but yeah, I would. If I saw Jews claiming that they have every right to stand on a highway and shoot Arabs because Arabs aren't allowed to live near them and then when Arabs built a wall to protect themselves from Jewish guns, and Jews then complain that they couldn't get to the best ever hospital because ... walls. I absolutely, for damn sure, without question, would loudly proclaim that they were extremist Jews. Talk to Abbas. Hell, talk to Tinmore. Not me. Not Hollie. Sheesh.
She consistently denounces violence and terrorism. She consistently labels it as such. I've not seen her (on this board) ever claim to apply it to all Palestinians or all Arabs or all Muslims.
Walls are inanimate objects. How easily you dismiss, ignore and reject everything else I said in that paragraph. As though, none of those other things matter, you know, because WALLS are so dehumanizing.
Are you suggesting that we rid the world of checkpoints and border security? Because ... dehumanizing?
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