New Rules On Right-To-Carry In National Parks

[Missourian]

New Rules On Right-To-Carry In Our National Parks Take Effect Today

Friday, January 09, 2009

In early December, the U.S. Department of the Interior (DOI), through the National Park Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, announced the final amended version of a change to rules on carrying firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges. The change will restore the right of law-abiding gun owners to transport and carry concealed firearms for lawful purposes on most DOI lands, according to the laws of the states in which these public lands are located.

The new rule, which takes effect today, allows Right-to-Carry permit holders to carry concealed firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges in states that recognize their permits. The new rule will also put an end to the patchwork of regulations that governed different lands managed by different federal agencies. In the past, Bureau of Land Management and Forest Service lands allowed the carrying of firearms, while lands managed by DOI did not.

The change was obviously necessary, given the passage of Right-to-Carry laws in so many states over the past two decades. As expected, of course, anti-gun activists are adamantly opposed to the new rule, and are already seeking to block the right of law-abiding citizens to protect themselves and their families while on DOI lands.

Not surprisingly, the first to jump on the "banned" wagon was the anti-gun Brady Campaign, in a lawsuit filed against the DOI in federal court, seeking to have the new rule struck down. The National Parks Conservation Association and the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees have also filed a similar suit.

Brady contends that people have a right to visit parks without fear of permit-holders carrying guns. The contention is ludicrous, of course, since to get to a park requires people to travel through places where permit-holders abound, without posing any threat whatsoever.

Using the same hyperbolic rhetoric and fear-mongering claims that are the mainstay of their anti-Right-to-Carry crusades, the Brady Campaign alleges that Right-to-Carry equals danger and violence, when countless studies and reams of data have repeatedly and consistently proved otherwise.

Remember, the new rule will extend only to law-abiding citizens who have met the strict safety and background check requirements necessary to acquire a carry permit, and who are legally allowed to carry in the state in which the park is located.​

Rest assured that NRA will do everything within its power to keep this important change on the books.





Copyright 2009, National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action.
This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.

NRA-ILA :: New Rules On Right-To-Carry In Our National Parks Take Effect Today​

 

[Modbert]

Why do I have a feeling that is just waiting to blow up; specifically in someone's face.

I first read about these laws when they came out.

They also wanted to allow kids on college campuses to have guns too. That along with bars.

I just don't see the point of taking a gun to a National Park. I really don't. It's not like you can go hunting legally there.

 

[Missourian]

Why do I have a feeling that is just waiting to blow up; specifically in someone's face.

I first read about these laws when they came out.

They also wanted to allow kids on college campuses to have guns too. That along with bars.

I just don't see the point of taking a gun to a National Park. I really don't. It's not like you can go hunting legally there.

I'm glad you brought that up.

Park visitors have nothing to fear from new gun law

By Steve Brooks​

This is in response to Dan Thomasson's Dec. 10 column.



Do you wear your seat belt when driving? Do you keep a fire extinguisher in your home? Did you teach your children to look both ways before crossing the street? Did you tell your children to never get into a car with a stranger?

These things - and thousands of others - are called precautions. We take precautions because there is a chance that something might happen. We may never wreck, our home may never catch on fire, our children may never have a problem with traffic or strangers, but that doesn't mean the precautions we took were foolish, unnecessary or dangerous.

Responsible people want to take care of themselves and protect themselves and their families. I do not want to be dependent upon the police or park service to protect me at all times, and in fact, they are completely unable to protect me 100 percent of the time. They won't always be right there beside me.

A handgun carry permit is a precaution - plain and simple. Not a license to shoot someone over "a camping space" or "a triviality" as he obviously (and misleadingly) stated in his column.

The general population is 5.7 times more likely to be arrested for a violent offense than permit holders, and 13.5 times more likely to be arrested for a nonviolent offense than permit holders.

Permit holders go through training, background checks and examination before being issued a permit or license. They are in general a very law-abiding segment of society.

Permit holders are more likely to be the ones helping you set up a tent or make it up that last quarter mile of trail at a national park - not harassing you. And you won't ever know that they were permit holders. They don't go around waving guns in the air and looking for trouble. The responsibility that goes with carrying firearms tends to make permit holders avoid risky situations, not seek them out.

Tennessee has issued 339,000 handgun carry permits since October 1996. The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation reports show that murder rates have declined 1-plus percent from 2001 to '02, 16.9 percent from '02 to '04, and 10 percent from '05 to '07. In those same periods, manslaughter was down 20-plus percent, 15-plus percent, and 26-plus percent.

Even aggravated assault (a crime that's most likely to involve a gun) is down in the first and last of those three time periods. Weapons violations are down 0.6 percent from '05 to '07 despite the increase in gun sales and permit issuance.

Medical errors kill more people than gun crimes - should we outlaw doctors and hospitals?

This decision to open up the national parks for carry of handguns according to each state's existing law is a good thing and will not result in any of the Wild West scenarios he seems to imagine. It just hasn't happened.

Criminals, by definition, do not obey the law, so no law is going to prevent them from carrying a weapon everywhere they go. The only thing these anti-Second Amendment laws do is prevent law-abiding citizens from protecting their wives, children, and selves.

You do what you'd like - for my part, I'll keep on wearing my seat belt; I'll keep a fire extinguisher in my kitchen and beside my fireplace; and I'll keep on defending the Second Amendment.

Steve Brooks was born in Decatur, Ga., moved to Tennessee for college at Carson Newman and East Tennessee State University, and moved to the Knoxville area in 1989. He is an environmental scientist. His e-mail address is [email protected]

Park visitors have nothing to fear from new gun law : Perspectives : Knoxville News Sentinel​

 

[Missourian]

They also wanted to allow kids on college campuses to have guns too. That along with bars.

I don't know the CCW limitations for other states, but in Missouri no schools (#10) or bars (#7).


Here is the MO Statute:

Endorsement does not authorize concealed firearms, where--penalty for violation.
571.107. 1. A concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize the person in whose name the permit or endorsement is issued to carry concealed firearms on or about his or her person or vehicle throughout the state. No driver's license or nondriver's license containing a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:

(1) Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol office or station without the consent of the chief law enforcement officer in charge of that office or station. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the office or station shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

(2) Within twenty-five feet of any polling place on any election day. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the polling place shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

(3) The facility of any adult or juvenile detention or correctional institution, prison or jail. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of any adult, juvenile detention, or correctional institution, prison or jail shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

(4) Any courthouse solely occupied by the circuit, appellate or supreme court, or any courtrooms, administrative offices, libraries or other rooms of any such court whether or not such court solely occupies the building in question. This subdivision shall also include, but not be limited to, any juvenile, family, drug, or other court offices, any room or office wherein any of the courts or offices listed in this subdivision are temporarily conducting any business within the jurisdiction of such courts or offices, and such other locations in such manner as may be specified by supreme court rule pursuant to subdivision (6) of this subsection. Nothing in this subdivision shall preclude those persons listed in subdivision (1) of subsection 2 of section 571.030 while within their jurisdiction and on duty, those persons listed in subdivisions (2) and (4) of subsection 2 of section 571.030, or such other persons who serve in a law enforcement capacity for a court as may be specified by supreme court rule pursuant to subdivision (6) of this subsection from carrying a concealed firearm within any of the areas described in this subdivision. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of any of the areas listed in this subdivision shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

(5) Any meeting of the governing body of a unit of local government; or any meeting of the general assembly or a committee of the general assembly, except that nothing in this subdivision shall preclude a member of the body holding a valid concealed carry endorsement from carrying a concealed firearm at a meeting of the body which he or she is a member. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

(6) The general assembly, supreme court, county or municipality may by rule, administrative regulation, or ordinance prohibit or limit the carrying of concealed firearms by endorsement holders in that portion of a building owned, leased or controlled by that unit of government. Any portion of a building in which the carrying of concealed firearms is prohibited or limited shall be clearly identified by signs posted at the entrance to the restricted area. The statute, rule or ordinance shall exempt any building used for public housing by private persons, highways or rest areas, firing ranges, and private dwellings owned, leased, or controlled by that unit of government from any restriction on the carrying or possession of a firearm. The statute, rule or ordinance shall not specify any criminal penalty for its violation but may specify that persons violating the statute, rule or ordinance may be denied entrance to the building, ordered to leave the building and if employees of the unit of government, be subjected to disciplinary measures for violation of the provisions of the statute, rule or ordinance. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any other unit of government;

(7) Any establishment licensed to dispense intoxicating liquor or nonintoxicating beer for consumption on the premises, which portion is primarily devoted to that purpose, without the consent of the owner or manager. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to the licensee of said establishment. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty persons and that receives at least fifty-one percent of its gross annual income from the dining facilities by the sale of food. This subdivision does not prohibit the possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the establishment and shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. Nothing in this subdivision authorizes any individual who has been issued a concealed carry endorsement to possess any firearm while intoxicated;

(8) Any area of an airport to which access is controlled by the inspection of persons and property. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the airport shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

(9) Any place where the carrying of a firearm is prohibited by federal law;

(10) Any higher education institution or elementary or secondary school facility without the consent of the governing body of the higher education institution or a school official or the district school board. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of any higher education institution or elementary or secondary school facility shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

(11) Any portion of a building used as a child-care facility without the consent of the manager. Nothing in this subdivision shall prevent the operator of a child-care facility in a family home from owning or possessing a firearm or a driver's license or nondriver's license containing a concealed carry endorsement;

(12) Any riverboat gambling operation accessible by the public without the consent of the owner or manager pursuant to rules promulgated by the gaming commission. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of a riverboat gambling operation shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

(13) Any gated area of an amusement park. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the amusement park shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

(14) Any church or other place of religious worship without the consent of the minister or person or persons representing the religious organization that exercises control over the place of religious worship. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

(15) Any private property whose owner has posted the premises as being off-limits to concealed firearms by means of one or more signs displayed in a conspicuous place of a minimum size of eleven inches by fourteen inches with the writing thereon in letters of not less than one inch. The owner, business or commercial lessee, manager of a private business enterprise, or any other organization, entity, or person may prohibit persons holding a concealed carry endorsement from carrying concealed firearms on the premises and may prohibit employees, not authorized by the employer, holding a concealed carry endorsement from carrying concealed firearms on the property of the employer. If the building or the premises are open to the public, the employer of the business enterprise shall post signs on or about the premises if carrying a concealed firearm is prohibited. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. An employer may prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed carry endorsement from carrying a concealed firearm in vehicles owned by the employer;

(16) Any sports arena or stadium with a seating capacity of five thousand or more. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

(17) Any hospital accessible by the public. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of a hospital shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises.

Penalties​

2. Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a** concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises. If such person refuses to leave the premises and a peace officer is summoned, such person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed one hundred dollars for the first offense. If a second citation for a similar violation occurs within a six-month period, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed two hundred dollars and his or her endorsement to carry concealed firearms shall be suspended for a period of one year. If a third citation for a similar violation is issued within one year of the first citation, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed five hundred dollars and shall have his or her concealed carry endorsement revoked and such person shall not be eligible for a concealed carry endorsement for a period of three years. Upon conviction of charges arising from a citation issued pursuant to this subsection, the court shall notify the sheriff of the county which issued the certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement and the department of revenue. The sheriff shall suspend or revoke the certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement and the department of revenue shall issue a notice of such suspension or revocation of the concealed carry endorsement and take action to remove the concealed carry endorsement from the individual's driving record. The director of revenue shall notify the licensee that he or she must apply for a new license pursuant to chapter 302, RSMo, which does not contain such endorsement. A concealed carry endorsement suspension pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall be reinstated at the time of the renewal of his or her driver's license. The notice issued by the department of revenue shall be mailed to the last known address shown on the individual's driving record. The notice is deemed received three days after mailing.

 

[Modbert]

I don't know the CCW limitations for other states, but in Missouri no schools (#10) or bars (#7).


Here is the MO Statute:

Well, National Parks I disagree with having guns.

What's your opinion about having guns being legal inside bars and colleges MO? Agree or Disagree with it?

 

[Missourian]

Well, National Parks I disagree with having guns.

What's your opinion about having guns being legal inside bars and colleges MO? Agree or Disagree with it?

Personally, I see no problem with any law abiding, responsible, trained and licenced citizen carrying a concealed weapon to a bar or on a college campus.

I do agree that no one should carry a firearm while drinking alcohol anywhere, period.



Your turn. I carry a cocealed sidearm. What is the difference between you and I eating at McDonalds at the same time outside the boundary of a National Park and us enjoying smores at ajoining campsites inside the boundary of that National Park?

 

[Modbert]

Personally, I see no problem with any law abiding, responsible, trained and licenced citizen carrying a concealed weapon to a bar or on a college campus.

I do agree that no one should carry a firearm while drinking alcohol anywhere, period.



Your turn. I carry a cocealed sidearm. What is the difference between you and I eating at McDonalds at the same time outside the boundary of a National Park and us enjoying smores at ajoining campsites inside the boundary of that National Park?

Well what are they going to do at a bar? Socialize?

Come on MO, no guns should be allowed in bars or a college campus. It's too dangerous and asking for trouble.

National Park is a protected area for wildlife refuge and a leisure area for visitors.

Whether we like to admit it or not, guns in National Parks will only result in Animals being shot by "accident" and the such. Someone can easily claim they thought that animal was a person trying to sneak up on them.

Besides, that local McDonalds is patrolled nearby by police officers,etc.

What do National Parks have? Park Rangers.

Are we going to start arming Park Rangers with guns too in order to protect the visitors to the national park from people who happen to go nuts with a gun?

 

[Gem]

Truthfully, anyone I have ever known who has gone through the trouble of buying a handgun obtaining a conceal carry permit is the LAST person I would have ANY concern about having a gun in a national park OR a bar. The idiots who bring their stolen or illegally purchased guns wherever they go WITHOUT any sort of permit or license are the ones that we should be concerned with...and this law won't change that.

 

[Modbert]

Truthfully, anyone I have ever known who has gone through the trouble of buying a handgun obtaining a conceal carry permit is the LAST person I would have ANY concern about having a gun in a national park OR a bar. The idiots who bring their stolen or illegally purchased guns wherever they go WITHOUT any sort of permit or license are the ones that we should be concerned with...and this law won't change that.

Just because someone has a permit, doesn't mean all their gun are legal? Does it?

And why is this the same argument I hear for the right to carry a gun everywhere. The same logic that applies to college campuses, bars, and even high schools for eighteen year olds.

Not all people who have a permit are innocent non-lawbreakers and not all places should have people carrying guns outside of perhaps Law enforcement when need be.

 

[Gem]

I suppose the same thing could be said to you, Robert:

Why is that all anti-gun people scream like the moment law-abiding citizens are allowed to carry guns we're all going to be immediately transported to the wild west when evidence points to the contrary?

All I'm saying...is that the people I MOST trust with guns...are the ones who take them seriously, respect them...and that usually means the people who are willing to go to the extremes of getting concealed carry permits, training, etc.

I just don't see scores of college students learning of this new law, running out as quick as they can to a) buy a gun and b) get a concealed carry permit so that they can c) take it to a bar, get drunk, and shoot something.

 

[Modbert]

I suppose the same thing could be said to you, Robert:

Why is that all anti-gun people scream like the moment law-abiding citizens are allowed to carry guns we're all going to be immediately transported to the wild west when evidence points to the contrary?

All I'm saying...is that the people I MOST trust with guns...are the ones who take them seriously, respect them...and that usually means the people who are willing to go to the extremes of getting concealed carry permits, training, etc.

I just don't see scores of college students learning of this new law, running out as quick as they can to a) buy a gun and b) get a concealed carry permit so that they can c) take it to a bar, get drunk, and shoot something.

I'm not saying take away your guns or anyone else's. However, I don't believe they should be allowed everywhere and allowed everywhere to anyone who can pass those damn tests. Since well, anyone can pass those damn tests. The kid who shot up his fellow students at Virginia Tech was able to pass those tests DESPITE the fact he was mentally unstable.

You're making a generalization because there is a DIFFERENCE between anti-gun and Pro Gun-Control. I'm not anti-gun, know the difference since the whole thing about anti-gun people is irrelevant to myself and this debate.

And currently, guns are banned on most college campuses and bars luckily. However, Utah is the only state in the Union that allows people on college campus to carry guns.

[youtube]V4u_2X4k4Vg[/youtube]

Gotta admit, I love 0:39.

 

[Missourian]

I'm not saying take away your guns or anyone else's. However, I don't believe they should be allowed everywhere and allowed everywhere to anyone who can pass those damn tests. Since well, anyone can pass those damn tests. The kid who shot up his fellow students at Virginia Tech was able to pass those tests DESPITE the fact he was mentally unstable.
You're making a generalization because there is a DIFFERENCE between anti-gun and Pro Gun-Control. I'm not anti-gun, know the difference since the whole thing about anti-gun people is irrelevant to myself and this debate.

And currently, guns are banned on most college campuses and bars luckily. However, Utah is the only state in the Union that allows people on college campus to carry guns.

Totally different standard for CCW. It is beyond the federal firearm backround check.

To receive a CCW permit you must take classroom instruction, a firearm knowledge examination, a firearm safety examination and an examination of firearm and Concealed Weapon Law and legal self-defense juctification. Next you must pass a shooting accuracy test at the range with both a semi-automatic pistol and revolver. Then you subject yourself to a CCW backround investigation. Finally you must get the approval of your local Sheriff. It is a length and expensive process.

 

[Modbert]

Totally different standard for CCW. It is beyond the federal firearm backround check.

To receive a CCW permit you must take classroom instruction, a firearm knowledge examination, a firearm safety examination and an examination of firearm and Concealed Weapon Law and legal self-defense juctification. Next you must pass a shooting accuracy test at the range. Then you subject yourself to a CCW backround investigation. Finally you must get the approval of your local Sheriff. It is a length and expensive process.

Alright great, and what is the renewal on this?

If it's one thing I'm trying to get more knowledge on, it's the gun laws.

 

[Missourian]

Alright great, and what is the renewal on this?

If it's one thing I'm trying to get more knowledge on, it's the gun laws.

It's three years in Missouri, other states vary.

 

[Modbert]

It's three years in Missouri, other states vary.

And this amount of time seems perfect to you or would you want it changed?

 

[Missourian]

If it's one thing I'm trying to get more knowledge on, it's the gun laws.

You know I'm happy to try to explain what I can.

Clicking on the "HOME" pic in my signature will take you to the NRA's homepage. They have a terrific search engine that will give you all the info on Conceal/Carry for every state.

 

[Missourian]

And this amount of time seems perfect to you or would you want it changed?

Seems fine to me.

And it is not a static license. Your CCW is linked to you Drivers License and the NCIC database. If you are arrested for any offense, your CCW is flagged and suspended automatically. And I don't mean like in the computer, I mean they take physically. Domestic dispute, it's gone. Violation that RSMO about bars or schools or any of those other restricted zones...wave goodbye to your CCW.

 

[Modbert]

Seems fine to me.

And it is not a static license. Your CCW is linked to you Drivers License and the NCIC database. If you are arrested for any offense, your CCW is flagged and suspended automatically. And I don't mean like in the computer, I mean they take physically. Domestic dispute, it's gone. Violation that RSMO about bars or schools or any of those other restricted zones...wave goodbye to your CCW.

All real criminals though know enough not to get caught or at the very least go out big the first time while buying weapons legally.

Though these days, that's probably more difficult with Homeland Security having a list of all the people who own firearms.

 

[Missourian]

All real criminals though know enough not to get caught or at the very least go out big the first time while buying weapons legally.

Though these days, that's probably more difficult with Homeland Security having a list of all the people who own firearms.

Real criminals don't care about what is legal, the law only deters law abiding citizens.

 

[Modbert]

Real criminals don't care about what is legal, the law only deters law abiding citizens.

They do care what is legal, that way it's easier to conduct their business.