New Mexico shut down nearly everything to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed by covid. It wasn't enough.

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Just playing devil's advocate because I do not know what the answer is, but there is no way to prove that if things weren't shut down it wouldn't be even worse.

I think Sweden, South Dakota, and other states with lighter restrictions have shown it really makes no difference at all and could even suggest the shutdowns make the virus spread more. While South Dakota is now at the top of the list in total cases per capita, bear in mind, it took them ten months to get there. While just about every other state in the country had some level of economic lockdown, South Dakota did not and yet up until a month ago they were ranking in the 40s of the 50 states with new cases, while states that took the most draconian steps were at the top.

Sweden implemented very little restrictions and while their cases and deaths initially spiked compared to their neighboring countries they had flattened out by the summer to the point where they were averaging about one death per day, while the rest of Europe was seeing a resurgence. Sweden is now seeing the same spike as the rest of us, but they rank 40th in cases per capita.

Essentially, neither of these places are any worse off than anywhere else virus wise, yet, their people didn't incur the economic strife the rest of us have. Even the WHO came out about a month ago and recommended against further lockdowns as the primary method of control due to the economic hardships that result.

COVID Live Update: 261,475,525 Cases and 5,215,099 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

WHO warns against COVID-19 lockdowns due to economic damage

The World Health Organization has warned leaders against relying on COVID-19 lockdowns to tackle outbreaks — after previously saying countries should be careful how quickly they reopen. WHO e…

nypost.com

 

[bodecea]

If people would act responsibly, on their own, and use masks and social distance...maybe we wouldn't need to be shutting things down

Unfortunately, in America, that's not gonna happen.

 

[pknopp]

Just playing devil's advocate because I do not know what the answer is, but there is no way to prove that if things weren't shut down it wouldn't be even worse.

I think Sweden, South Dakota, and other states with lighter restrictions have shown it really makes no difference at all and could even suggest the shutdowns make the virus spread more. While South Dakota is now at the top of the list in total cases per capita, bear in mind, it took them ten months to get there. While just about every other state in the country had some level of economic lockdown, South Dakota did not and yet up until a month ago they were ranking in the 40s of the 50 states with new cases, while states that took the most draconian steps were at the top.

While I do not know what the answer is, I don't think you can compare sparsely populated areas to highly populated areas. While in some point in the future we may figure out what happened and why, I don't think we can make any definitive statement.

Sweden implemented very little restrictions and while their cases and deaths initially spiked compared to their neighboring countries they had flattened out by the summer to the point where they were averaging about one death per day, while the rest of Europe was seeing a resurgence. Sweden is now seeing the same spike as the rest of us, but they rank 40th in cases per capita.

Essentially, neither of these places are any worse off than anywhere else virus wise, yet, their people didn't incur the economic strife the rest of us have. Even the WHO came out about a month ago and recommended against further lockdowns as the primary method of control due to the economic hardships that result.

COVID Live Update: 261,475,525 Cases and 5,215,099 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

WHO warns against COVID-19 lockdowns due to economic damage

The World Health Organization has warned leaders against relying on COVID-19 lockdowns to tackle outbreaks — after previously saying countries should be careful how quickly they reopen. WHO e…

nypost.com

It's been a well established thing that with communicable diseases you separate yourself from others to keep things from spreading. Will we figure out that this was different? We will see but you really can't blame people to expect it to be the case this time also.

 

[cnm]

Death rate isn't higher than previous years. Explain that.

Explain why I posted data with a link and you did not.

 

[cnm]

Until a vaccine is given to the society nothing will stop the spread of the virus

Right. Nothing stopped the spread here. Like magic.

Daily confirmed and probable cases


COVID-19: Current cases

 

[cnm]

Death rate isn't higher than previous years. Explain that.

But no worries, I'll do your research for you...

The ‘excess deaths’ tally in the U.S. is 204,691 in 7 months — so COVID-19 deaths might be undercounted

 

[Turtlesoup]

Just playing devil's advocate because I do not know what the answer is, but there is no way to prove that if things weren't shut down it wouldn't be even worse.

The article said it has reduced numbers, but considering how Covid plays out there is a significant delay in getting the results you want. Remember NYC? Flattening the curve takes awhile, and people are going to ignore resrictions during Christmas.

I'm sorry New Mexico is going through this during the holidays.

Our state has been red. I did my weekly errands today and had to go to Walmart. Jam packed. Parking lot packed. No one paying any attention to social distancing and Walmart had gone right back to jamming up the middle of the aisles with merchandise.

Was just at Walmart this morning and they are reverting back to making people go one way and so on, so it depends on the region I guess...

Stupid stunt that does nothing to slow the virus down....

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Until a vaccine is given to the society nothing will stop the spread of the virus but in my opinion those closing things down believe it can slow the spread a little to help the Hospitals not be overwhelmed...

At what cost?

Truthfully I do not know Taz... The cost no matter what we as a society do will be large no matter which way we go...

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

While I do not know what the answer is, I don't think you can compare sparsely populated areas to highly populated areas. While in some point in the future we may figure out what happened and why, I don't think we can make any definitive statement.

Sweden has twice the population of Norway and Finland, the two countries it borders. As for South Dakota, there are other rural states and areas that experienced worse outbreaks than they did.

It's been a well established thing that with communicable diseases you separate yourself from others to keep things from spreading.

Separating yourself from others is almost logistically impossible for a multitude of reasons. Several studies done throughout the year have suggested the likeliest place for you to catch COVID is at home from people you live with.

People are more likely to contract COVID-19 at home, study finds

South Korean epidemiologists have found that people were more likely to contract the new coronavirus from members of their own households than from contacts outside the home. A study published in the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on July 16 looked in detail at 5,706...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Thevolunteerwino]

yep the hospitals were not equipped to have every citizen fearful of a cold virus to flood the hospitals in mass. Sure its a mess when a cold and pneumoniae starts going around and fear is being spread on the tv. Perhaps we should forget all this ridiculous overblown nonsense and go back to work.
And if you think its bad now. Wait till january after everyone has spent their savings and paycheck money on Christmas and they start shutting things down again.

 

[westwall]

If people would act responsibly, on their own, and use masks and social distance...maybe we wouldn't need to be shutting things down

Unfortunately, in America, that's not gonna happen.

Yeah, institute martial law to enforce rules that don't work.

What an obedient little fascist you are.

 

[Thevolunteerwino]

Just playing devil's advocate because I do not know what the answer is, but there is no way to prove that if things weren't shut down it wouldn't be even worse.

The article said it has reduced numbers, but considering how Covid plays out there is a significant delay in getting the results you want. Remember NYC? Flattening the curve takes awhile, and people are going to ignore resrictions during Christmas.

I'm sorry New Mexico is going through this during the holidays.

Our state has been red. I did my weekly errands today and had to go to Walmart. Jam packed. Parking lot packed. No one paying any attention to social distancing and Walmart had gone right back to jamming up the middle of the aisles with merchandise.

Oh dear. You mean red as in Covid red zone? Walmart was so careful the first time! Even they have Precautions fatigue!

I know right? I was shocked. This spring and summer they hugely modified their stores and occupancy rates. Now you would never know.

Formula One racing has been living in a bubble for the whole season. They travel from track to track, and stay there. Guess what, multiple people have contracted covid, including the World Champion.

Lockdowns only make the misery worse, and prolong the agony. That is simple science. But we all know the leftists don't do science for all that they claim to.

I don't think it's simple science because you have far too many variables: density, economics, people's behavior in different areas, etc.

What do you think they did with polio outbreaks? Lockdowns. Same with the Spanish Flu, and it did help mitigate it some, but fatigue (and holidays) set in then as now.

They locked down the sick, not the healthy.

No, they locked down the healthy...I just read this interesting article - it's really a Dejas vous when you consider what is happening now in response to the pandemic.

'A breaking point': Anti-lockdown efforts during Spanish flu offer a cautionary tale for coronavirus

Opposition to public health directives forced some cities to roll back orders too quickly.

www.nbcnews.com

Read the article again, they locked down, but rescinded within a few days. There were not months of lockdowns.

The lockdown varied - for example Atlanta had it for 3 weeks.

We haven't had months of lockdowns for Covid - where municipalities have instituted them it seems to be mostly about two weeks for a total lockdown: COVID-19 pandemic lockdowns - Wikipedia

It's still economically devastating, I agree, and that happened in 1918 too.

Yes, we have. Nevada was effectively shut down for two months. Big box stores were exempted, of course. So they did gangbusters while the small shops died on the vine. Talk about "super spreader" opportunities. Small shops were put out of business, but 1000 people could be in walmart.

So much for "science"

Makes you wonder if superspreader means how they are spreading the wealth $$$ straight up to Amazon Winco and Wallmart. Its a super spreader all right.
Also have you noticed no one wears gloves?. So the stock person wipes their runny nose on their hands and sleeve then replaces the mask and touches every product they put on the shelf. Then someone else walks by and reads lables and puts it back. Then you buy it and take it home in a store full of people wearing masks like that solves something. Its a visual reminder people. Thats all
Has anyone ever noticed how many times amd how many different authority figures have been caught meeting without masks and defying orders they themselves put in place. Like holding their own personal wedding gatherings and getting their hair done or hanging out together in packs without masks.
And still their are some people who believe their is a pandemic.
So much proof has been suppressed by the powers in the media. Boatloads of it. .And still people believe a few scientists while never hearing the opposition.
All the masks are for and why they are so adament everyone wear them. (But not gloves).
Is so you have a constant visual reminder. Without such a reminder many people by now would have rejected this hypochondriac insanity after looking around them as not real.
All they want is to make money, spy on your personal conversations with their nose up your ass crack, and line you up for your personal vaccines afterwards.
And yet still there are people walking around who believe this bull. They are affixed to their tv.
People. With the suppresion on the internet You have to be heard in public or no one will hear you.
After everyone has spent their money on Amazon this month for Christmas and they are broke. They will ramp this crap back up in January and start lockdowns.
You are being lied to. Masks and vaccines will not make this go away in 100 days.
The only thing that will.make it go away is mandatory vaccine laws and many people losing their jobs and homes due to lack of money to pay the banker

 

[Coyote]

If people would act responsibly, on their own, and use masks and social distance...maybe we wouldn't need to be shutting things down

Unfortunately, in America, that's not gonna happen.

Yeah, institute martial law to enforce rules that don't work.

What an obedient little fascist you are.

No one is calling for that. It's entirely up to individual states.

Which makes the most sense. Any strategy has to depend on local conditions.

But frankly, it is no hardship in wearing a mask and social distancing. It is TEMPORARY, and it helps. Sure it's not 100%, sure it's a pain in the ... face. But it lows the probability of contagion. And if enough people are willing to do it, if offers some protection to people who genuinely can not wear one. I agree that lock downs are far more contentious and difficult and you have to weigh benefits of public health vs the effects on jobs, economy, isolation etc.

 

[jknowgood]

Death rate isn't higher than previous years. Explain that.

Explain why I posted data with a link and you did not.

No more died. Why

Death rate isn't higher than previous years. Explain that.

Explain why I posted data with a link and you did not.

Not many more people died from your fake epidemic.

 

[jknowgood]

Death rate isn't higher than previous years. Explain that.

But no worries, I'll do your research for you...

View attachment 425768
The ‘excess deaths’ tally in the U.S. is 204,691 in 7 months — so COVID-19 deaths might be undercounted

The election is over with, you can let it go.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I don't wash my mask because I don't wear it. When I have to, I can't breath. I walk around (when they are watching me, the manager/dictator/sheep of the place) holding it out by pinching it between two fingers so air can get in. Soon as I get away from them..I shove it under my chin. I have one. A cloth one my sister in law made for me.

I won't take their damn vaccine either. Ever.

I do exactly the same thing. I hold the mask out. Then I pull it under my nose. Most others do the same thing.

 

[westwall]

If people would act responsibly, on their own, and use masks and social distance...maybe we wouldn't need to be shutting things down

Unfortunately, in America, that's not gonna happen.

Yeah, institute martial law to enforce rules that don't work.

What an obedient little fascist you are.

No one is calling for that. It's entirely up to individual states.

Which makes the most sense. Any strategy has to depend on local conditions.

But frankly, it is no hardship in wearing a mask and social distancing. It is TEMPORARY, and it helps. Sure it's not 100%, sure it's a pain in the ... face. But it lows the probability of contagion. And if enough people are willing to do it, if offers some protection to people who genuinely can not wear one. I agree that lock downs are far more contentious and difficult and you have to weigh benefits of public health vs the effects on jobs, economy, isolation etc.View attachment 425804

How many months till you figure out it isn't permanent?

Get real.

 

[MeBelle]

maybe not for Swedan. sweden however is smack in the middle of the second wave.

Not according to their PM:

WHO is clear that the state of evidence for masks is weak.
All studies so far suggest that it is much more important to keep your distance than to have a face mask," he said.

In a bid to stem a severe second wave, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven announced on Thursday that high schools would switch to distance learning for the rest of the year.

No need for face masks in Sweden: official

 

[L.K.Eder]

maybe not for Swedan. sweden however is smack in the middle of the second wave.

Not according to their PM:

WHO is clear that the state of evidence for masks is weak.
All studies so far suggest that it is much more important to keep your distance than to have a face mask," he said.

In a bid to stem a severe second wave, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven announced on Thursday that high schools would switch to distance learning for the rest of the year.

No need for face masks in Sweden: official

reading is fundamental. they are smack in the middle of a second wave and are trying to stem it. at least try to understand your own source.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Sweden COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Sweden Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info