New details emerge: Plan was to kill 5000

[DiveCon]

Yes, peace.

Pakistan has its first democratically elected government in ten years. The terrorists want to destroy the current reproachment between India and Pakistan. AQ tried the same thing in Iraq, and it worked for a while until the "Sunni Awakening."

you think that means "peace"?
LOL

 

[DavidS]

Good.

What the terrorists want is to destroy peace between India and Pakistan, so by overreacting you allow the terrorists to win. Bin Laden has been winning the entire time Bush has been in office.

There is no peace between India and Pakistan. They hate each other.

 

[DiveCon]

There is no peace between India and Pakistan. They hate each other.

hey david, cheer up, the Palestinians have a democratically elected government now, Israel has peace

 

[DavidS]

hey david, cheer up, the Palestinians have a democratically elected government now, Israel has peace

Israel is about to create a new crater called Gaza. Israel is gearing up for a major offensive in the Gaza strip very soon. Probably before Obama takes office. I want to kill enough terrorists that they're finally AFRAID of us. Hitler was afraid of the West. Japan was afraid of the West. The German Kaiser was afraid of the West. Terrorists could give two shits about us because we allow the UN and ultra left wing human rights organizations to control us. I say we use them as human shields next time Hamas fires a Kassam.

 

[DiveCon]

Israel is about to create a new crater called Gaza. Israel is gearing up for a major offensive in the Gaza strip very soon. Probably before Obama takes office. I want to kill enough terrorists that they're finally AFRAID of us. Hitler was afraid of the West. Japan was afraid of the West. The German Kaiser was afraid of the West. Terrorists could give two shits about us because we allow the UN and ultra left wing human rights organizations to control us. I say we use them as human shields next time Hamas fires a Kassam.

no no no, just ask moron chris, the Palestinians have a democratically elected government, that means peace

 

[Lycurgus]

IMO............
As it is true that the Palestinian's have conducted fair and open elections, that in no way creates the instruments required for peace with Israel. Naturally it is a good step forward, but, until they can truly rein in the radical fringe fractions, which still conduct missions of terror, peace, real peace will remain a pipe dream. Nevertheless, some good things have and are still taking place, little by little and slowly, they should be recognized as in time, with new generations and education, hopefully lasting peace can be found.

 

[Ravi]

How many have to die before the anti war crowd is ready to stand up and fight??

Good luck, I'm sure you're on your way over their right now to fight terrorists! Let us know how you do, I think they have internet access over there.

 

[editec]

What motivated the Islamic terrorists to try to forment discord between India and Pakistan, folks?

This wasn't a strike against America, you know, it was a strike against India/

It was done, methinks, to rachet up the tension between Islamic Pakistan and mostly Hindu India.

Now why was that done?

Anyone want to venture a guess, here?

I'll tell you what I think. I think the fundamentalists got their asses handing to them in the last election and they can't stand the thought that they have no real power-base in Pakistan.

So they're hoping, by creating more religious tension in Pakistan and India, to gain more support in Pakistan.

So they turn to violence, and they turn to a tradition enemy and they are hoping to recharge the reigious conflict with India.

It appears that most of you assume that the majority of Pakistanis are fundamentalist Moslems.

They are not. Their last elections proved that in spades.

source

But there are also several positive messages from the elections. The first is of course the rout of the religious parties - the MMA. They were swept from power in both Balochistan and the Frontier. And the rout was a lot worse than the loss of seats. If you look at the detailed election results you will find that not only did they lose - they didn't even come in second! Furthermore, they lost often to people they had previously won against. The return to power of the ANP can only be viewed as positive both from a Pakistani point of view and from a US/NATO point of view.

The MMA had been providing cover for the Taliban in Afghanistan. The ANP has a secular and progressive history. They will have no love for the Taliban. As Pashtoon nationalists they will also be in a good position to collaborate with the Pashtun majority in Afghanistan. The PPP which holds the second largest number of seats in the Frontier Assembly has promised the ANP their cooperation and I think they will keep to their word. The PPP has bigger fish to fry elsewhere

.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The only chance Pakistan has is to be completely cooperative with India. Their prime minister is a victim of terrorism... his wife was killed last year by terrorists.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter hero. All victims of 'terrorist attack' are not necessarily on the same side.

-Joe

 

[Caligirl]

so, whats your solution?
should Obama have face to face meetings with these people?

My solution to what, exactly? The 170 deaths last week? Or anti americanism? Or al qaeda? Bin Laden? Terror in general?

The IRA was eventually reduced as a terrorist threat by being gradually brought into the political process. Terrorists are human beings who are pissed as hell and want some representation in society. If they gave up their guns and became 'productive' members of society everyone wins.

We might learn something if we look at instances where violent groups were brought into a productive relationship, and violence significantly reduced, like the IRA.

If you're not happy with that, I have always thought that a 'surgical strike' (get bin laden, get other terror group leaders) would be much mroe effective than the sort of carpet bombing mentality we seem to have to the middle east in general.

 

[Caligirl]

does a fully loaded jet crash into the swimming pool or medicine cabinet?
no? then no, not much outrage here.

So it is not the fact that people are dying, it is the motivation of the people behind the deaths? the fact that they want to attack western ideology?

When we then declare war against 'islamofascism' it could be argued that we are doing the same thing - calling for death to fundamentalist islam. Should fundamentalist muslims feel outraged by our actions, since our motivation mirrors that of the terrorists? Death to an ideology that we feel threatens western ideology?

Many of the other deaths in human society are entirely preventable, and some are due to gross negligence as a result of the free market, such as allowing tobacco companies to market to kids, etc. You certainly don't need to feel outrage, I am not particularly outraged by it either but I do think the response to 9-11 was entirely disproportionate, I wouldn't be surprised if we give subsidies to the tobacco companies or some such instead of rising in holy wrath that hundreds of thousands of americans die every year in smoking related illness. So that tobacco can make a buck.

Disproportionate is all. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[dilloduck]

My solution to what, exactly? The 170 deaths last week? Or anti americanism? Or al qaeda? Bin Laden? Terror in general?

The IRA was eventually reduced as a terrorist threat by being gradually brought into the political process. Terrorists are human beings who are pissed as hell and want some representation in society. If they gave up their guns and became 'productive' members of society everyone wins.

We might learn something if we look at instances where violent groups were brought into a productive relationship, and violence significantly reduced, like the IRA.

If you're not happy with that, I have always thought that a 'surgical strike' (get bin laden, get other terror group leaders) would be much mroe effective than the sort of carpet bombing mentality we seem to have to the middle east in general.

Thinking that killing bin laden will solve the problem is a fantasy. Hopefully we can kill him soon so everyone can realize the error in this kind of thinking.

 

[Caligirl]

What motivated the Islamic terrorists to try to forment discord between India and Pakistan, folks?

This wasn't a strike against America, you know, it was a strike against India/

It was done, methinks, to rachet up the tension between Islamic Pakistan and mostly Hindu India.

I am not sure if you are saying that this attack is like the 2005 quote from Cheney about the 'death throes' of the insurgency in Iraq, or not, but the idea that they are 'ratcheting up' tension says to me that things are escalating.

Is that good?

 

[Caligirl]

Thinking that killing bin laden will solve the problem is a fantasy. Hopefully we can kill him soon so everyone can realize the error in this kind of thinking.

Thinking that going to war will solve the problem is a fantasy.

Sadly, even after five years and escalating tensions, increased global terror incidents, and the growth of terrror groups worldwide, not everyone yet realizes the error in this kind of thinking.

 

[dilloduck]

Thinking that going to war will solve the problem is a fantasy.

Sadly, even after five years and escalating tensions, increased global terror incidents, and the growth of terrror groups worldwide, not everyone yet realizes the error in this kind of thinking.

So you're pretty conviced that killing bin laden will end it all, huh?

 

[Sunni Man]

Thinking that killing bin laden will solve the problem is a fantasy. Hopefully we can kill him soon so everyone can realize the error in this kind of thinking.

I remember how much difference capturing and executing Saddam had on the insurgency in Iraq!?!?

 

[Caligirl]

So you're pretty conviced that killing bin laden will end it all, huh?

Of course not. That was choice "B" after trying something more diplomatic like what britain finally used successfully with northern ireland.

I do think that having the president of "the great satan" calling for him 'dead or alive' and then not getting him for five years while he is holed up in a friggin cave somewhere is a pretty good piece of al qaeda recruitment propaganda.

So you're pretty convinced that war will end it all?

 

[geonerd20]

India has shown remarkable restraint in their responses to terrorist attacks originating in Pakistan. From the bombings in 1993 in Bombay, to the attack on the Indian Parliament, India has not retaliated against Pakistan. In all these events, India held back at the insistence of the US. In return, we have done nothing to pressure the Pakistani government and military to rein in the ISI and the terrorists with whom they associate. We need to pull our heads out of our collective a$$es and let the Indians do what they need to do to fix the problem.

 

[Sunni Man]

We need to pull our heads out of our collective a$$es and let the Indians do what they need to do to fix the problem.

Nuclear war??

 

[Lycurgus]

India has shown remarkable restraint in their responses to terrorist attacks originating in Pakistan. From the bombings in 1993 in Bombay, to the attack on the Indian Parliament, India has not retaliated against Pakistan. In all these events, India held back at the insistence of the US. In return, we have done nothing to pressure the Pakistani government and military to rein in the ISI and the terrorists with whom they associate. We need to pull our heads out of our collective a$$es and let the Indians do what they need to do to fix the problem.

Geo, you make some valid points. IMO India is a much more main stream or advanced society than that of Pakistan. The only problem I see with India doing what they feel is appropriate is that Pakistan is unstable enough, at least this is my worry, that they might respond with more than conventional means, then the world has a huge problem.

We dropped the ball on Afghanistan after the Russian's pulled out. We have dropped the ball to a lesser degree with Pakistan. I think that most reasonable people understand this. Pakistan clearly needs to be dealt with. They need to clean up their own backyard, now how to motivate that, how to get to that end result, I think is a very delicate situation.

Finally, in spite of the few mistakes we might have made, Pakistan is still responsible for what takes place in it's borders and what stems forth from it's borders. This is not a good situation.