New Deal: Another Name For Fascism

[Bfgrn]

What part of irrelevant do you not understand. Start your own thread whining about this if you want. Oh wait... you have many times and been ignored.

I guess this is just a 'leftist' issue...

A police state is just fine with you authoritarian statists. But if THAT is not BIG government and nefarious government intervention into people's lives, than what is?

No... it's irrelevant to both the topic at hand, and rational people.

That's right Big statist Fizzzzzzz...

I should add this quote to my sig...

No system of justice is perfect. Secondly, executing the wrong person is an accident. Not murder. Executions are a punishment for a crime.

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus

 

[Big Fitz]

I guess this is just a 'leftist' issue...

A police state is just fine with you authoritarian statists. But if THAT is not BIG government and nefarious government intervention into people's lives, than what is?

No... it's irrelevant to both the topic at hand, and rational people.

That's right Big statist Fizzzzzzz...

I should add this quote to my sig...

No system of justice is perfect. Secondly, executing the wrong person is an accident. Not murder. Executions are a punishment for a crime.

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus

LOL... Ding! There it is! The maniac still has it! LOL.

Love it. Still stuck in your craw and more irrelevant every passing day.

You can't shame me with that, because what I said is true and morally correct.

Go play with your pet fetish on someone else's dime tardtard. I'm done with you till you reach the ragged edges of sanity and speak something other than irrelevant libberish.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What would you call the political stance that corporations should run our government? That is NOT classic liberalism, it is today's conservatism.

Is that what our founding fathers believed? OR, did they heavily regulate corporations, require corporations to serve the public good, hold owners and stockholders personally liable for any harm caused, prevent corporations from making any political or charitable contributions to influence law-making, and not allow corporations to own stock in other corporations or own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose?

A quiz for our resident obtuse:

What was the entity, vehicle or instrument our founding fathers created to run our nation? Was it a corporation? Was it a private entity?

We tried 'rejection of government control of industry' from the end of the Civil War into the early 1900's...do you know what that era was called?

Did you ever take a course in civics?

Obviously I got more from my civics studies than you did.

Lassaiez faire capitalism is not a governmental system, but economic. It is an extra-governmental concept, and not integral to our form of government. How we select candidates on the other hand seems to be the source of your problem. The fact that government does not prosecute those corrupting it

The founding fathers did not give us a collectivist system of government ownership. They protected our individual rights from the power of the mob as well as provide the confines of which majority rule must operate. They created a system of checks and balances to make sure power did not build up too much in any one area. You are talking about an imbalance that must be corrected in governance, but are going at it the wrong way. quelle suprise!

Unfortunately, you do not seem able to separate the concepts of industry from government, I don't think I'm capable of explaining such foreign concepts to you. The depth of your envy and hate towards capitalism and individualism is too great.

The 'imbalance that must be corrected in governance' was done...It was called The New Deal. And Republicans and conservatives have been trying to systematically dismantle it for 70 years. The New Deal 'created a system of checks and balances to make sure power did not build up too much in any one area'...

Fuck the New Deal.

 

[Bfgrn]

No... it's irrelevant to both the topic at hand, and rational people.

That's right Big statist Fizzzzzzz...

I should add this quote to my sig...

No system of justice is perfect. Secondly, executing the wrong person is an accident. Not murder. Executions are a punishment for a crime.

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus

LOL... Ding! There it is! The maniac still has it! LOL.

Love it. Still stuck in your craw and more irrelevant every passing day.

You can't shame me with that, because what I said is true and morally correct.

Go play with your pet fetish on someone else's dime tardtard. I'm done with you till you reach the ragged edges of sanity and speak something other than irrelevant libberish.

What you said is true and morally correct? For whom? You're statist position is that because there has been a crime, punishment must be carried out. If the state calls for an execution, then the guilt or innocence of the person being executed is irrelevant. The STATE deems an execution.

SO...If the person put to death is innocent..." (It's) Not murder. Executions are a punishment for a crime"

During WWII when the Nazis entered a town, if one of there soldiers was shot by a local, they would not seek the guilty party. They would choose someone to be used as example. Usually more than one male to be executed. It was their way...and YOURS.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That's right Big statist Fizzzzzzz...

I should add this quote to my sig...



It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus

LOL... Ding! There it is! The maniac still has it! LOL.

Love it. Still stuck in your craw and more irrelevant every passing day.

You can't shame me with that, because what I said is true and morally correct.

Go play with your pet fetish on someone else's dime tardtard. I'm done with you till you reach the ragged edges of sanity and speak something other than irrelevant libberish.

What you said is true and morally correct? For whom? You're statist position is that because there has been a crime, punishment must be carried out. If the state calls for an execution, then the guilt or innocence of the person being executed is irrelevant. The STATE deems an execution.

SO...If the person put to death is innocent..." (It's) Not murder. Executions are a punishment for a crime"

During WWII when the Nazis entered a town, if one of there soldiers was shot by a local, they would not seek the guilty party. They would choose someone to be used as example. Usually more than one male to be executed. It was their way...and YOURS.

FDR firebomed Dresden

Truman firebomed Tokyo (all wood houses) the nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki

 

[Big Fitz]

I'm sorry, does anyone hear a faint yammer of libberish out there? It almost... naw. He stopped being sentient a while back. Couldn't be.

Must be hearing things.

 

[Old Rocks]

Now PC, you can try to rewrite history all you want. But to the people of the United States, and their descendents, FDR will always be on of the Great Presidents.

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL... Ding! There it is! The maniac still has it! LOL.

Love it. Still stuck in your craw and more irrelevant every passing day.

You can't shame me with that, because what I said is true and morally correct.

Go play with your pet fetish on someone else's dime tardtard. I'm done with you till you reach the ragged edges of sanity and speak something other than irrelevant libberish.

What you said is true and morally correct? For whom? You're statist position is that because there has been a crime, punishment must be carried out. If the state calls for an execution, then the guilt or innocence of the person being executed is irrelevant. The STATE deems an execution.

SO...If the person put to death is innocent..." (It's) Not murder. Executions are a punishment for a crime"

During WWII when the Nazis entered a town, if one of there soldiers was shot by a local, they would not seek the guilty party. They would choose someone to be used as example. Usually more than one male to be executed. It was their way...and YOURS.

FDR firebomed Dresden

Truman firebomed Tokyo (all wood houses) the nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki

And Sherman burned and destroyed the Souths few industrial bases. War is hell, and always will be. Good reason not to start one.

 

[Toronado3800]

This is not hindsight, this is history.

Actually, and not only from the OP....but from a study of the history of the period, the three leaders were largely on the same page.

All three agreed on the collective vs. the individual, on 'equality,' on government contol of the economy, on side aspects such as eugenics.

For example:
Hitler wrote to the president of the American Eugenics Society to ask for a copy of his“The Case for Sterilization.” (Margaret Sanger and Sterilization) German race science stood on American progressive’s shoulders.


And, you may be interested in the following:

The propaganda of the New Deal (“malefactors of great wealth”) to the contrary, FDR simply endeavored to re-create the corporatism of the last war. The New Dealers invited one industry after another to write the codes under which they would be regulated. Even more aggressive, the National Recovery Administration forced industries to fix prices and in other ways to collude with one another: the NRA approved 557 basic and 189 supplementary codes, covering almost 95% of all industrial workers. Goldberg, "Liberal Fascism"

a. The intention was for big business to get bigger, and the little guy to be squeezed out: for example, the owners of the big chain movie houses wrote the codes that almost ran the independents out of business (even though 13,571 of the 18,321 movie theatres were independently owned). This in the name of ‘efficiency’ and ‘progress.’

b. New Deal bureaucrats studied Mussolini’s corporatism closely. From “Fortune” magazine: ‘The Corporate state is to Mussolini what the New Deal is to Roosevelt.’(July 1934)

The change that you mistakenly see as recent, occurred when the horrors of the Nazi and Fascist regimes were uncovered, and so new meme was that there was a left-right separation that you seem to accept.

In point of fact, an earlier Progressive, Woodrow Wilson, made the United States into the first Fascist nation, well before Mussiolini and Hitler.
During WW I, under the Progressive Woodrow Wilson, American was a fascist nation.
a. Had the world’s first modern propaganda ministry
b. Political prisoners by the thousands were harassed, beaten, spied upon and thrown in jail for simply expressing private opinions.
c. The national leader accused foreigners and immigrants of injecting treasonous ‘poison’ into the American bloodstream
d. Newspapers and magazines were closed for criticizing the government
e. Almost 100,000 government propaganda agents were sent out to whip up support for the regime and the war
f. College professors imposed loyalty oaths on their colleagues
g. Nearly a quarter million ‘goons’ were given legal authority to beat and intimidate ‘slackers’ and dissenters
h. Leading artists and writers dedicated their work to proselytizing for the government.
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Classical_Liberalism_vs_Modern_Liberal_Conservatism.pdf p. 9

No no, you have to realize this is codewords PC.

- History is past events I agree with and will accept as true.
- Hindsight is past events I don't want to agree with and will refute as false regardless of evidence.

See how easy it is? Discount hindsight, but what you believe is history! The past becomes much more rosy that way.

Of course those who do not want Hitler where he rightfully belongs on the 'authoritarian left' side of the coin must explain how he could possibly be on the 'authoritarian right' without stretching the definitions of the subject like so much taffy.

Sadly, you are correct...I think they call it 'feel-good history.'

Accecpt only what agrees with you!

FAQ ... The Political Compass I'll let these folks who are not interested in my views explain.

Where should I look up that Hitler was a socialist? I will read it. Perhaps they are onto something. It's always interesting at the least.

 

[Toronado3800]

Oh, and thank goodness we finally got standard sizes for mattresses. I have been trying to figure out who to thank. Imagine buying a bed from Ashley and always being stuck buying 78x83 mattresses to fill a Mrs. King size bed or whatever lol.

 

[Bfgrn]

LOL... Ding! There it is! The maniac still has it! LOL.

Love it. Still stuck in your craw and more irrelevant every passing day.

You can't shame me with that, because what I said is true and morally correct.

Go play with your pet fetish on someone else's dime tardtard. I'm done with you till you reach the ragged edges of sanity and speak something other than irrelevant libberish.

What you said is true and morally correct? For whom? You're statist position is that because there has been a crime, punishment must be carried out. If the state calls for an execution, then the guilt or innocence of the person being executed is irrelevant. The STATE deems an execution.

SO...If the person put to death is innocent..." (It's) Not murder. Executions are a punishment for a crime"

During WWII when the Nazis entered a town, if one of there soldiers was shot by a local, they would not seek the guilty party. They would choose someone to be used as example. Usually more than one male to be executed. It was their way...and YOURS.

FDR firebomed Dresden

Truman firebomed Tokyo (all wood houses) the nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki

And that has WHAT to do with the incarceration rate and capital punishment in America since the early 1970's???

 

[Publius1787]

The incarceration chart is accurate. You attacked the source, mindlessly ignoring that they provided documentation.

U. S. Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletin NCJ 221944

See page #6

Accurate or not... it's still irrelevant and misleading. But I know... it's your obsession.

It's still less than 1% of the entire population. With a proportional increase about equal to population growth.

But the graph is pretty... misleading.... and very very irrelevant. But does still confirm your inability to comprehend correlation and causation.

OK Einstein...see how 'misleading' this FACT is...the United States of America, the bastion of freedom, the 'city upon the hill' has 5% the world population and 25% of the world's prisoners.

Here is your phrase for the day: per capita

The US has the most citizens imprisoned per capita than any other nation on the planet.

NOTE: The total number in custody per 100,000 residents per U. S. Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletin NCJ 221944 is 762...so this chart is correct.

Yeah, that chart is garbage. China is not counted. They have more executions than triple the world combined. Can you imagine what their prison population is like?

 

[Bfgrn]

Accurate or not... it's still irrelevant and misleading. But I know... it's your obsession.

It's still less than 1% of the entire population. With a proportional increase about equal to population growth.

But the graph is pretty... misleading.... and very very irrelevant. But does still confirm your inability to comprehend correlation and causation.

OK Einstein...see how 'misleading' this FACT is...the United States of America, the bastion of freedom, the 'city upon the hill' has 5% the world population and 25% of the world's prisoners.

Here is your phrase for the day: per capita

The US has the most citizens imprisoned per capita than any other nation on the planet.

NOTE: The total number in custody per 100,000 residents per U. S. Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletin NCJ 221944 is 762...so this chart is correct.

Yeah, that chart is garbage. China is not counted. They have more executions than triple the world combined. Can you imagine what their prison population is like?

So China is our benchmark...thanks for playing.

 

[Toronado3800]

We do keep a good number of folks in prison by any chart.

China is ridiculous. Oops, time for a new cell phone. Capitalism says I gotta send some bucks to keep the Chinese economy going.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And the balance the New Deal through the Great Society created was marked by an era of corporate wealth and boom, American innovation and dominance in technology, the mass building of infrastructure, the growth of a burgeoning middle class, the vast expansion of individual rights and men on the moon.

Correct.

Indeed, the period starting with the New Deal encompassed the greatest expanse of free market capitalism and individual civil liberties.

And this Era was facilitated and embraced by republicans and conservatives, such as Earl Warren, Barry Goldwater, and Dwight Eisenhower. It was the great age of enlightened conservatism – the conjoining of public and private sectors, just as was done during the Second World War, to improve the American human condition.

Consequently the OP is erroneous idiocy.

You folks are more fun than a barrel of Internatinal Communists!

Reveal the syncronisity of your vaunted FDR and the ideologs with whom he had so very much in common, and you squeal like a stuck Sus scrofa domesticus.

"....the OP is erroneous idiocy..."


1. Comparisons of the New Deal with totalitarian ideologies were provided from all sides. A Republican senator described the NRA as having gone “too far in the Russian direction,” and a Democrat accused FDR of trying “to transplant Hitlerism to every corner of this country.” Schivelbusch, “Three New Deals,” p. 27.

a. Herbert Hoover: “We must fight again for a government founded on individual liberty and opportunity that was the American vision. If we lose we will continue down this New Deal road to some sort of personal government based on collectivist theories. Under these ideas ours can become some sort of Fascist government.”

b. “The similarities of the economics of the New Deal to the economics of Mussolini’s corporative state or Hitler’s totalitarian state are both close and obvious.” Norman Thomas, head of the American Socialist Party.

c. “Schivelbusch occasionally overreaches, as when he writes that Roosevelt once referred to Stalin and Mussolini as “his ‘blood brothers.’ ” (In fact, it seems clear in Schivel¬busch’s source—Arthur Schlesinger’s The Age of Roosevelt—that FDR was saying communism and fascism were blood brothers to each other, not to him.) But overall, this is a formidable piece of scholarship.” Hitler, Mussolini, Roosevelt - Reason Magazine

d. Roosevelt’s Sec’y of the Interior, proclaimed: “What we are doing in this country were some ot the things that wre being done in Russia and even some things that were being done under Hitler in Germany.” Confirmed:Roosevelt Ended the Great Depression… When He Died

Did you get that from Reason? "But overall, this is a formidable piece of scholarship.”
Not "... erroneous idiocy..."

But I understand, the Left has spent so much time and effort to distance itself from the tag of Fascism, that to the anti-intellectual Leftist, the revelations about FDR's Fascism are no more than "... erroneous idiocy..."

You know, the first indication that you were on the wrong side of this arguement was the folks agreeing with you.....like BoringFriendlessGuy!


Now, how about spending a bit of effort, find some error in the OP, and post a real counter, rather than the default 'is not, is not......"

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'd say the fall from 24.9% to 14.3% was pretty significant. The reason unemployment ticks back up in 1938-1939 is that he paid too much attention to the conservatives of his day and cut spending.

Seriously?

You think 15% unemployment after 7 full years is a job well done?

As usual you facts are all fucked up, in 1920-21 Conservative crushed unemployed in 18 months dropping it from 12% to 4%, if FDR was great for 15% unemployment after 7 years Conservatives are Gods.

I prefer the Harding/Coolidge approach.

Depression of 1920

Excellent!

Harding was the best recession-fighter in US history!

Sadly, the 1924 election was the last time the two parties both ran conservative candidates.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'd say the fall from 24.9% to 14.3% was pretty significant. The reason unemployment ticks back up in 1938-1939 is that he paid too much attention to the conservatives of his day and cut spending.

Seriously?

You think 15% unemployment after 7 full years is a job well done?

As usual you facts are all fucked up, in 1920-21 Conservative crushed unemployed in 18 months dropping it from 12% to 4%, if FDR was great for 15% unemployment after 7 years Conservatives are Gods.

I prefer the Harding/Coolidge approach.

Depression of 1920

Coolidge/Mellon is more accurate but yeah. Conservatism dropped unemployment faster than Obama's credibilty

 

[PoliticalChic]

The new deal certainly helped create a solid middle class, the best schools in the world and what many consider the best years this country ever had. The top tax rate was arround 88%.

They really have to spin hard to try and trash this record.

It will always fall short in the face of the real numbers.

I believe you have misinterpreted the question at hand.

The point being debated, and, I believe having been proven by the preponderance of the opinions of various academics and political professions, is whether the FDR administration was based on the very same principles and ideas that informed other totalitarian regimes, specifically the German National Socialists and the Italian Fascists.

Can I assume that you would agree that FDR's desire to enforce the collective over the rights of the individual?

And that you agree that the methods and strategies used by the FDR administration are consistent with the corporatism of the Fascist Mussolini?

That FDR used the same militarism that was the basis for the regimes of Hitler and Mussolni?

And that we can easliy document the same mentality, rhetoric and symbolism of the other two totalist outlooks?

And speaking of symbolism,

1. Schivelbusch discuses the architecture of the three regimes in terms of ‘monumentality,’ the need of people to create symbols that reveal their inner life, their actions, and their social conceptions. The similarity of the architecture of National Socialism, of Fascism, and of that of the New Deal is a reminder of the fact that during the Great Depression, capitalism’s period of crisis, all three philosophies rejected modernism and turned, instead, to monumentality, a backward-looking, neoclassical architecture.

a. In this style, the state manifests power and authority. It is the architecture that would tower on behalf of, but also above, the people like a temple, inspiring trust, respect, and a quasi-religious sense of deeper meaning and community- while at the same time showing the rest of the world what it was dealing with.

b. In the 19th century, along with liberal capitalism (in which the state restricted itself to a supervisory role and allowed the private sector to determine architectural aesthetics) neoclassicism lost its hold, but in the 20th century, with increased state regulation of the economy, continuing with the mobilization of the economy during the war, and the near-total intervention during the Depression, it returned.

c. The term ‘liberal,’ as used here, refers to economic and political laissez-faire philosophy originating with Adam Smith and the free-trade of Manchester capitalism.


I look forward to your stirring denounciation of FDR and the Fascism that he was able to bring to America, using the Democrat motto "Never let a crisis go to waste."

 

[Toronado3800]

Is that just a bunch of words saying "FDR Hitler and Stalin all believed in government having a big hand in the economy so they are all the same"?

In some sense I do agree....

Now dont confuse this FDR hand in the economy with being a new thing in America. Just the name changed. A hundred years previously the government was giving away land if you did what they wanted. Big big huge program.

Was that socialism? Was that fair to redistribute tax dollars from New York to clear Native Americans from Pa Ingele's land? Who knows.

I dont find the CCC that much an ideological difference.

 

[Truthmatters]

The new deal certainly helped create a solid middle class, the best schools in the world and what many consider the best years this country ever had. The top tax rate was arround 88%.

They really have to spin hard to try and trash this record.

It will always fall short in the face of the real numbers.

I believe you have misinterpreted the question at hand.

The point being debated, and, I believe having been proven by the preponderance of the opinions of various academics and political professions, is whether the FDR administration was based on the very same principles and ideas that informed other totalitarian regimes, specifically the German National Socialists and the Italian Fascists.

Can I assume that you would agree that FDR's desire to enforce the collective over the rights of the individual?

And that you agree that the methods and strategies used by the FDR administration are consistent with the corporatism of the Fascist Mussolini?

That FDR used the same militarism that was the basis for the regimes of Hitler and Mussolni?

And that we can easliy document the same mentality, rhetoric and symbolism of the other two totalist outlooks?

And speaking of symbolism,

1. Schivelbusch discuses the architecture of the three regimes in terms of ‘monumentality,’ the need of people to create symbols that reveal their inner life, their actions, and their social conceptions. The similarity of the architecture of National Socialism, of Fascism, and of that of the New Deal is a reminder of the fact that during the Great Depression, capitalism’s period of crisis, all three philosophies rejected modernism and turned, instead, to monumentality, a backward-looking, neoclassical architecture.

a. In this style, the state manifests power and authority. It is the architecture that would tower on behalf of, but also above, the people like a temple, inspiring trust, respect, and a quasi-religious sense of deeper meaning and community- while at the same time showing the rest of the world what it was dealing with.

b. In the 19th century, along with liberal capitalism (in which the state restricted itself to a supervisory role and allowed the private sector to determine architectural aesthetics) neoclassicism lost its hold, but in the 20th century, with increased state regulation of the economy, continuing with the mobilization of the economy during the war, and the near-total intervention during the Depression, it returned.

c. The term ‘liberal,’ as used here, refers to economic and political laissez-faire philosophy originating with Adam Smith and the free-trade of Manchester capitalism.


I look forward to your stirring denounciation of FDR and the Fascism that he was able to bring to America, using the Democrat motto "Never let a crisis go to waste."

This is all Glen Beck chalk board writings blather.

Its nonsense and means nothing.



Give us you link so we can see who really wrote it