CDZ New Abortion Legislation tries to address the rights of fathers

[Chuz Life]

STATE OF OKLAHOMA
1st Session of the 56th Legislature (2017)
HOUSE BILL 1441
By: Humphrey

AS INTRODUCED An Act relating to public health and safety; prohibiting abortion to be performed without consent of the father; requiring pregnant woman seeking to abort pregnancy to provide identity of father; allowing identified person to demand paternity test; providing certain exceptions; providing for codification; and providing an effective date.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA: SECTION 1. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 1-732.1 of Title 63, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:

A. No abortion shall be performed in this state without the written informed consent of the father of the fetus.

B. A pregnant woman seeking to abort her pregnancy shall be required to provide, in writing, the identity of the father of the fetus to the physician who is to perform or induce the abortion. If the person identified as the father of the fetus challenges the fact that he is the father, such individual may demand that a paternity test be performed.

C. This section shall not apply if the father of the fetus is deceased and the woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced signs a notarized affidavit attesting to that fact.

D. This section shall not apply in cases in which a woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced was the victim of rape or incest and the pregnancy resulted from the rape or incest, or in cases where the physician determines that the carrying of the fetus places the woman's life is in danger. SECTION 2. This act shall become effective November 1, 2017 56-1-5840 AM 01/09/17

I am not sure how I feel about the language of this bill but I am curious about where the discussions might go from here. I can agree with it in principle but I think they could have approached it in a better (?) way.

 

[Never3ndr]

STATE OF OKLAHOMA
1st Session of the 56th Legislature (2017)
HOUSE BILL 1441
By: Humphrey

AS INTRODUCED An Act relating to public health and safety; prohibiting abortion to be performed without consent of the father; requiring pregnant woman seeking to abort pregnancy to provide identity of father; allowing identified person to demand paternity test; providing certain exceptions; providing for codification; and providing an effective date.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA: SECTION 1. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 1-732.1 of Title 63, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:

A. No abortion shall be performed in this state without the written informed consent of the father of the fetus.

B. A pregnant woman seeking to abort her pregnancy shall be required to provide, in writing, the identity of the father of the fetus to the physician who is to perform or induce the abortion. If the person identified as the father of the fetus challenges the fact that he is the father, such individual may demand that a paternity test be performed.

C. This section shall not apply if the father of the fetus is deceased and the woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced signs a notarized affidavit attesting to that fact.

D. This section shall not apply in cases in which a woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced was the victim of rape or incest and the pregnancy resulted from the rape or incest, or in cases where the physician determines that the carrying of the fetus places the woman's life is in danger. SECTION 2. This act shall become effective November 1, 2017 56-1-5840 AM 01/09/17

I am not sure how I feel about the language of this bill but I am curious about where the discussions might go from here. I can agree with it in principle but I think they could have approached it in a better (?) way.

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know about its implementation.

However, i can say as somebody who is pro-choice, that I agree with the general sentiment here. A child is a gift to the father and mother...not simply just the mother. So, just like there should be no right for a father to force an abortion without consent of the mother...the reverse of this should also be true.

 

[Chuz Life]

STATE OF OKLAHOMA
1st Session of the 56th Legislature (2017)
HOUSE BILL 1441
By: Humphrey

AS INTRODUCED An Act relating to public health and safety; prohibiting abortion to be performed without consent of the father; requiring pregnant woman seeking to abort pregnancy to provide identity of father; allowing identified person to demand paternity test; providing certain exceptions; providing for codification; and providing an effective date.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA: SECTION 1. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 1-732.1 of Title 63, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:

A. No abortion shall be performed in this state without the written informed consent of the father of the fetus.

B. A pregnant woman seeking to abort her pregnancy shall be required to provide, in writing, the identity of the father of the fetus to the physician who is to perform or induce the abortion. If the person identified as the father of the fetus challenges the fact that he is the father, such individual may demand that a paternity test be performed.

C. This section shall not apply if the father of the fetus is deceased and the woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced signs a notarized affidavit attesting to that fact.

D. This section shall not apply in cases in which a woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced was the victim of rape or incest and the pregnancy resulted from the rape or incest, or in cases where the physician determines that the carrying of the fetus places the woman's life is in danger. SECTION 2. This act shall become effective November 1, 2017 56-1-5840 AM 01/09/17

I am not sure how I feel about the language of this bill but I am curious about where the discussions might go from here. I can agree with it in principle but I think they could have approached it in a better (?) way.

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know about its implementation.

However, i can say as somebody who is pro-choice, that I agree with the general sentiment here. A child is a gift to the father and mother...not simply just the mother. So, just like there should be no right for a father to force an abortion without consent of the mother...the reverse of this should also be true.

"A child is a gift to the father and mother"?

I never expected that.

Not especially from someone who professes to be "pro-choice" on abortion.

May I ask why you think children are a "gift" to the biological parents who created them? Why are they not just a biological result?

 

[Anathema]

I'm in favor of this with One Condition.

Any father preventing a mother from having an abortion must be Capable and Willing to support the mother and the child completely prior to birth, and the child after birth, without Government assistance.

 

[Never3ndr]

STATE OF OKLAHOMA
1st Session of the 56th Legislature (2017)
HOUSE BILL 1441
By: Humphrey

AS INTRODUCED An Act relating to public health and safety; prohibiting abortion to be performed without consent of the father; requiring pregnant woman seeking to abort pregnancy to provide identity of father; allowing identified person to demand paternity test; providing certain exceptions; providing for codification; and providing an effective date.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA: SECTION 1. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 1-732.1 of Title 63, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:

A. No abortion shall be performed in this state without the written informed consent of the father of the fetus.

B. A pregnant woman seeking to abort her pregnancy shall be required to provide, in writing, the identity of the father of the fetus to the physician who is to perform or induce the abortion. If the person identified as the father of the fetus challenges the fact that he is the father, such individual may demand that a paternity test be performed.

C. This section shall not apply if the father of the fetus is deceased and the woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced signs a notarized affidavit attesting to that fact.

D. This section shall not apply in cases in which a woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced was the victim of rape or incest and the pregnancy resulted from the rape or incest, or in cases where the physician determines that the carrying of the fetus places the woman's life is in danger. SECTION 2. This act shall become effective November 1, 2017 56-1-5840 AM 01/09/17

I am not sure how I feel about the language of this bill but I am curious about where the discussions might go from here. I can agree with it in principle but I think they could have approached it in a better (?) way.

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know about its implementation.

However, i can say as somebody who is pro-choice, that I agree with the general sentiment here. A child is a gift to the father and mother...not simply just the mother. So, just like there should be no right for a father to force an abortion without consent of the mother...the reverse of this should also be true.

"A child is a gift to the father and mother"?

I never expected that.

Not especially from someone who professes to be "pro-choice" on abortion.

May I ask why you think children are a "gift" to the biological parents who created them? Why are they not just a biological result?

I know you are staunchly pro-life, and I think we have had a general discussion on abortion before. I actually have to leave, so I cannot sit here and debate (as I feel that you are likely to segway into a larger discussion trying to convince me to be pro-life) however, I will provide my opinion on this one question you posed.

You can have something be a "biological result" as well as being a "gift." Some simple examples here would be the feats the top athletes in the world are able to achieve which would really not be capable without a certain amount of genetics coming into play (a biological result), however, this result is a gift in that it has allowed them to achieve feats that astound us all. Similarly, a child is, technically, the biological result of sexual intercourse, however, due to my own value system, I tend to perceive this result as being more of a gift...however, this is simply due to my own moral and value system and this is not necessarily true for everybody or even, perhaps, the majority of people.

 

[Chuz Life]

I'm in favor of this with One Condition.

Any father preventing a mother from having an abortion must be Capable and Willing to support the mother and the child completely prior to birth, and the child after birth, without Government assistance.

EDIT:

Wait.

Your post made me realize how much this bill is really pushing for.

Much to think about.

 

[Fenton Lum]

I'm in favor of this with One Condition.

Any father preventing a mother from having an abortion must be Capable and Willing to support the mother and the child completely prior to birth, and the child after birth, without Government assistance.

Or the govt will incarcerate the father I suppose, that'll teach 'em.

 

[Fenton Lum]

I'm in favor of this with One Condition.

Any father preventing a mother from having an abortion must be Capable and Willing to support the mother and the child completely prior to birth, and the child after birth, without Government assistance.

EDIT:

Wait.

Your post made me realize how much this bill is really pushing for.

Much to think about.

I think I'll continue to stay out of other folks business, decisions, and problems.

 

[Chuz Life]

I'm in favor of this with One Condition.

Any father preventing a mother from having an abortion must be Capable and Willing to support the mother and the child completely prior to birth, and the child after birth, without Government assistance.

EDIT:

Wait.

Your post made me realize how much this bill is really pushing for.

Much to think about.

I think I'll continue to stay out of other folks business, decisions, and problems.

Is there a need really to announce that?

 

[Fenton Lum]

I'm in favor of this with One Condition.

Any father preventing a mother from having an abortion must be Capable and Willing to support the mother and the child completely prior to birth, and the child after birth, without Government assistance.

EDIT:

Wait.

Your post made me realize how much this bill is really pushing for.

Much to think about.

I think I'll continue to stay out of other folks business, decisions, and problems.

Is there a need really to announce that?

Apparently so these days.

 

[FA_Q2]

It will never fly. While I agree that the father should have some basic rights here there is really no denying that biology has dictated otherwise. The mother is the one carrying the child.

I wonder what they are going to say in cases where the mother claims a one night stand with someone she does not know and cannot find? That she cant get an abortion now? I do not think that this was even thought through - its enforcement and implications are essentially impossible.

 

[Fenton Lum]

It will never fly. While I agree that the father should have some basic rights here there is really no denying that biology has dictated otherwise. The mother is the one carrying the child.

I wonder what they are going to say in cases where the mother claims a one night stand with someone she does not know and cannot find? That she cant get an abortion now? I do not think that this was even thought through - its enforcement and implications are essentially impossible.

Of course it wasn't thought through, zealots do not engage in that.

 

[Chuz Life]

It will never fly. While I agree that the father should have some basic rights here there is really no denying that biology has dictated otherwise. The mother is the one carrying the child.

I wonder what they are going to say in cases where the mother claims a one night stand with someone she does not know and cannot find? That she cant get an abortion now? I do not think that this was even thought through - its enforcement and implications are essentially impossible.

I'm guessing it was thought through.

What a way to discourage one night stands by both women AND men.

 

[TWinTX]

STATE OF OKLAHOMA
1st Session of the 56th Legislature (2017)
HOUSE BILL 1441
By: Humphrey

AS INTRODUCED An Act relating to public health and safety; prohibiting abortion to be performed without consent of the father; requiring pregnant woman seeking to abort pregnancy to provide identity of father; allowing identified person to demand paternity test; providing certain exceptions; providing for codification; and providing an effective date.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA: SECTION 1. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 1-732.1 of Title 63, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:

A. No abortion shall be performed in this state without the written informed consent of the father of the fetus.

B. A pregnant woman seeking to abort her pregnancy shall be required to provide, in writing, the identity of the father of the fetus to the physician who is to perform or induce the abortion. If the person identified as the father of the fetus challenges the fact that he is the father, such individual may demand that a paternity test be performed.

C. This section shall not apply if the father of the fetus is deceased and the woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced signs a notarized affidavit attesting to that fact.

D. This section shall not apply in cases in which a woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced was the victim of rape or incest and the pregnancy resulted from the rape or incest, or in cases where the physician determines that the carrying of the fetus places the woman's life is in danger. SECTION 2. This act shall become effective November 1, 2017 56-1-5840 AM 01/09/17

I am not sure how I feel about the language of this bill but I am curious about where the discussions might go from here. I can agree with it in principle but I think they could have approached it in a better (?) way.

I have always thought that the father was unfairly excluded from the abortion decision. I am strongly in favor of the decision to abort or not to abort being a mutual decision between both parties

 

[Chuz Life]

I have always thought that the father was unfairly excluded from the abortion decision. I am strongly in favor of the decision to abort or not to abort being a mutual decision between both parties

As a father who would never want to see any of his children aborted, I agree. But, try selling that idea to the militant "her body her choice" crowd.

They will call you a misogynist and dismiss anything more you have to say about it.

 

[Toronado3800]

STATE OF OKLAHOMA
1st Session of the 56th Legislature (2017)
HOUSE BILL 1441
By: Humphrey

AS INTRODUCED An Act relating to public health and safety; prohibiting abortion to be performed without consent of the father; requiring pregnant woman seeking to abort pregnancy to provide identity of father; allowing identified person to demand paternity test; providing certain exceptions; providing for codification; and providing an effective date.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA: SECTION 1. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 1-732.1 of Title 63, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:

A. No abortion shall be performed in this state without the written informed consent of the father of the fetus.

B. A pregnant woman seeking to abort her pregnancy shall be required to provide, in writing, the identity of the father of the fetus to the physician who is to perform or induce the abortion. If the person identified as the father of the fetus challenges the fact that he is the father, such individual may demand that a paternity test be performed.

C. This section shall not apply if the father of the fetus is deceased and the woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced signs a notarized affidavit attesting to that fact.

D. This section shall not apply in cases in which a woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced was the victim of rape or incest and the pregnancy resulted from the rape or incest, or in cases where the physician determines that the carrying of the fetus places the woman's life is in danger. SECTION 2. This act shall become effective November 1, 2017 56-1-5840 AM 01/09/17

I am not sure how I feel about the language of this bill but I am curious about where the discussions might go from here. I can agree with it in principle but I think they could have approached it in a better (?) way.

Seems ripe for abuse but I understand the sentiment. The argument can be made a man has a bit of a right in the decision there (and a responsibility afterwards!)

random thoughts..

So some problems I see:

-you get a time delay to DNA test for dad
-you get a cost to DNA test the fetus and potential dad's. Will insurance or you and I pay for that for the not so wealthy who want abortions?
-will a gal be able to in effect force a DNA test on a fellow?
-what if a gal just through deceit or honest ignorance does not know how to contact the potential father? No abortion for her?
-guess she could contact the wrong possible fathers on purpose?
-maybe if we start entering everyone into a DNA database now a bunch of them problems are null and void....
-wonder what the cost of the DNA database is?

This is starting to seem like the old school Religious Republican insertion of a big government God in our lives. I thought the Tea Party and the new Trump Republican Party was against that. Or is it ok for a state or federal district to enact an official religion?

I am now almost regrettably leaning against this but would love to hear ideas on getting or forcing fathers to be involved.

 

[Chuz Life]

STATE OF OKLAHOMA
1st Session of the 56th Legislature (2017)
HOUSE BILL 1441
By: Humphrey

AS INTRODUCED An Act relating to public health and safety; prohibiting abortion to be performed without consent of the father; requiring pregnant woman seeking to abort pregnancy to provide identity of father; allowing identified person to demand paternity test; providing certain exceptions; providing for codification; and providing an effective date.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA: SECTION 1. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 1-732.1 of Title 63, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:

A. No abortion shall be performed in this state without the written informed consent of the father of the fetus.

B. A pregnant woman seeking to abort her pregnancy shall be required to provide, in writing, the identity of the father of the fetus to the physician who is to perform or induce the abortion. If the person identified as the father of the fetus challenges the fact that he is the father, such individual may demand that a paternity test be performed.

C. This section shall not apply if the father of the fetus is deceased and the woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced signs a notarized affidavit attesting to that fact.

D. This section shall not apply in cases in which a woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced was the victim of rape or incest and the pregnancy resulted from the rape or incest, or in cases where the physician determines that the carrying of the fetus places the woman's life is in danger. SECTION 2. This act shall become effective November 1, 2017 56-1-5840 AM 01/09/17

I am not sure how I feel about the language of this bill but I am curious about where the discussions might go from here. I can agree with it in principle but I think they could have approached it in a better (?) way.

Seems ripe for abuse but I understand the sentiment. The argument can be made a man has a bit of a right in the decision there (and a responsibility afterwards!)

random thoughts..

So some problems I see:

-you get a time delay to DNA test for dad
-you get a cost to DNA test the fetus and potential dad's. Will insurance or you and I pay for that for the not so wealthy who want abortions?
-will a gal be able to in effect force a DNA test on a fellow?
-what if a gal just through deceit or honest ignorance does not know how to contact the potential father? No abortion for her?
-guess she could contact the wrong possible fathers on purpose?
-maybe if we start entering everyone into a DNA database now a bunch of them problems are null and void....
-wonder what the cost of the DNA database is?

This is starting to seem like the old school Religious Republican insertion of a big government God in our lives. I thought the Tea Party and the new Trump Republican Party was against that. Or is it ok for a state or federal district to enact an official religion?

I am now almost regrettably leaning against this but would love to hear ideas on getting or forcing fathers to be involved.

Yeah, I share a lot of your concerns and curiosities on the implementation of this kind of a law... but I am not seeing the religious component. We don't religion or a belief in "God" to know that an abortion kills a child.

That's a simple biological fact.

 

[Toronado3800]

STATE OF OKLAHOMA
1st Session of the 56th Legislature (2017)
HOUSE BILL 1441
By: Humphrey

AS INTRODUCED An Act relating to public health and safety; prohibiting abortion to be performed without consent of the father; requiring pregnant woman seeking to abort pregnancy to provide identity of father; allowing identified person to demand paternity test; providing certain exceptions; providing for codification; and providing an effective date.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA: SECTION 1. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 1-732.1 of Title 63, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:

A. No abortion shall be performed in this state without the written informed consent of the father of the fetus.

B. A pregnant woman seeking to abort her pregnancy shall be required to provide, in writing, the identity of the father of the fetus to the physician who is to perform or induce the abortion. If the person identified as the father of the fetus challenges the fact that he is the father, such individual may demand that a paternity test be performed.

C. This section shall not apply if the father of the fetus is deceased and the woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced signs a notarized affidavit attesting to that fact.

D. This section shall not apply in cases in which a woman upon whom the abortion is to be performed or induced was the victim of rape or incest and the pregnancy resulted from the rape or incest, or in cases where the physician determines that the carrying of the fetus places the woman's life is in danger. SECTION 2. This act shall become effective November 1, 2017 56-1-5840 AM 01/09/17

I am not sure how I feel about the language of this bill but I am curious about where the discussions might go from here. I can agree with it in principle but I think they could have approached it in a better (?) way.

Seems ripe for abuse but I understand the sentiment. The argument can be made a man has a bit of a right in the decision there (and a responsibility afterwards!)

random thoughts..

So some problems I see:

-you get a time delay to DNA test for dad
-you get a cost to DNA test the fetus and potential dad's. Will insurance or you and I pay for that for the not so wealthy who want abortions?
-will a gal be able to in effect force a DNA test on a fellow?
-what if a gal just through deceit or honest ignorance does not know how to contact the potential father? No abortion for her?
-guess she could contact the wrong possible fathers on purpose?
-maybe if we start entering everyone into a DNA database now a bunch of them problems are null and void....
-wonder what the cost of the DNA database is?

This is starting to seem like the old school Religious Republican insertion of a big government God in our lives. I thought the Tea Party and the new Trump Republican Party was against that. Or is it ok for a state or federal district to enact an official religion?

I am now almost regrettably leaning against this but would love to hear ideas on getting or forcing fathers to be involved.

Yeah, I share a lot of your concerns and curiosities on the implementation of this kind of a law... but I am not seeing the religious component. We don't religion or a belief in "God" to know that an abortion kills a child.

That's a simple biological fact.

Honestly I agree with you after a certain point.

So, as I do believe in separation of church and state, as I believe in individual rights above the government's and as I KNOW our Pope's are not infallible and the Church has been wrong I prefer to not tell you what you believe.

Anyways, leave too many of us religious nuts alone and we'll come up with the idea masturbation and ejaculation for purposes other than procreation is a sin. For the life of me I suppose I can see the logic behind the killing of sperm, but what does a lady do wrong?

These people think alot about masturbation

Why is Masturbation a Sin?

What's wrong with Masturbation? <br> Masturbation in the Bible<br> Does Masturbation prevent prostate cancer? How to stop masturbating

I do not see the line as clearly as you do or my right to impose "my line" on you. Call me a Tea Party small government hippie I suppose.

 

[FA_Q2]

It will never fly. While I agree that the father should have some basic rights here there is really no denying that biology has dictated otherwise. The mother is the one carrying the child.

I wonder what they are going to say in cases where the mother claims a one night stand with someone she does not know and cannot find? That she cant get an abortion now? I do not think that this was even thought through - its enforcement and implications are essentially impossible.

I'm guessing it was thought through.

What a way to discourage one night stands by both women AND men.

Not at all. It would not discourage the man whatsoever - such a law would not effect the 'player' in any shape or form.

 

[hadit]

I support the attempt to respect a man's reproductive freedom rights, because as it stands now he can have fatherhood (and 18 years of financial servitude) forced on him or denied without his input. I also agree that it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to enforce it.

In a sane world, men AND women would take responsibility for their actions. If that means fewer random hook-ups with strangers, so be it.