Natural Rights are Really based on property rights

ihopehefails

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The concept of individual liberty and natural law is really based on the concept of property ownership. When a person owns something they possess certain rights to it that other people don't have. They own the right to use their computer in a manor that the rights over that computer allow them to. Those rights were transferred from the previous owner so when I buy a computer from a manufacturer they are really transferring their rights to me and because of that no other person can tell me how to use those 'transferred rights'. This enables a great deal amount of freedom since I can use those property rights as a means of manifesting my free will such as posting on this website which is freedom of speech. I have this right because the manufacterer sold me the rights to use the computer any way I want without any restrictions and because of that no third party can interfere with that since no rights were transferred to them. They were only transferred to me.

Not only do I own my physical possession but I own my own self and those rights, just like the computer, were transferred to me from some source. Everyone has the same rights over their own selves that were transferred to them which means that every individual has an exclusive right to their own existence and, at the same time, have no rights over someone elses existence since everyone fully owns their own person and nothing more. This means no one has a right to tell someone else how to exist which puts each one of us in a state of freedom where we are immune from the control of others.
 
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Gadawg73

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You can own nothing and still have the same rights as anyone else.
Something about the US Constitution.
 

Sheldon

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I have this right because the manufacterer sold me the rights to use the computer any way I want without any restrictions and because of that no third party can interfere with that since no rights were transferred to them. They were only transferred to me.
I think you're conflating rights with ability here.

You do have the ability to download copyrighted music without paying for it, but you don't have the right to do that. Sorry. It's why we have copyright laws; the creator's right to compensation for their work supersedes your imagined right to put whatever you want on your computer.

Just an example of where a third party can, in fact, tell you what you have the right to put on your hard drive.
 
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ihopehefails

ihopehefails

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You can own nothing and still have the same rights as anyone else.
Something about the US Constitution.
I have the right to assemble but what good does it do if I can't rent a place to assemble with other people? I need a physical piece of property in order to manifest my freedom and if you protect protect property rights then you protect individual freedom since whatever hall that I use to assemble I obtain certain rights from the owner to assemble on his property. My right to assemble exist in the rights the owner of the hall allows me to use it for and if you protect those rights then you protect the freedom to assemble.
 
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ihopehefails

ihopehefails

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I have this right because the manufacterer sold me the rights to use the computer any way I want without any restrictions and because of that no third party can interfere with that since no rights were transferred to them. They were only transferred to me.
I think you're conflating rights with ability here.

You do have the ability to download copyrighted music without paying for it, but you don't have the right to do that. Sorry. It's why we have copyright laws; the creator's right to compensation for their work supersedes your imagined right to put whatever you want on your computer.

Just an example of where a third party can, in fact, tell you what you have the right to put on your hard drive.
I'm not disagreeing with you but can the creator of the downloaded music tell he how to use my computer on this board? I don't have the right to use his music in any other way that the creator wants but he can't tell me how to use my rights over my computer.
 

Sinatra

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The concept of individual liberty and natural law is really based on the concept of property ownership. When a person owns something they possess certain rights to it that other people don't have. They own the right to use their computer in a manor that the rights over that computer allow them to. Those rights were transferred from the previous owner so when I buy a computer from a manufacturer they are really transferring their rights to me and because of that no other person can tell me how to use those 'transferred rights'. This enables a great deal amount of freedom since I can use those property rights as a means of manifesting my free will such as posting on this website which is freedom of speech. I have this right because the manufacterer sold me the rights to use the computer any way I want without any restrictions and because of that no third party can interfere with that since no rights were transferred to them. They were only transferred to me.

Not only do I own my physical possession but I own my own self and those rights, just like the computer, were transferred to me from some source. Everyone has the same rights over their own selves that were transferred to them which means that every individual has an exclusive right to their own existence and, at the same time, have no rights over someone elses existence since everyone fully owns their own person and nothing more. This means no one has a right to tell someone else how to exist which puts each one of us in a state of freedom where we are immune from the control of others.

Nice attempt at a very complicated concept - one which the Founders, minds far greater than ours, grappled with for months on end...
 

Sheldon

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I have this right because the manufacterer sold me the rights to use the computer any way I want without any restrictions and because of that no third party can interfere with that since no rights were transferred to them. They were only transferred to me.
I think you're conflating rights with ability here.

You do have the ability to download copyrighted music without paying for it, but you don't have the right to do that. Sorry. It's why we have copyright laws; the creator's right to compensation for their work supersedes your imagined right to put whatever you want on your computer.

Just an example of where a third party can, in fact, tell you what you have the right to put on your hard drive.
I'm not disagreeing with you but can the creator of the downloaded music tell he how to use my computer on this board? I don't have the right to use his music in any other way that the creator wants but he can't tell me how to use my rights over my computer.
I'll try an analogy this time:

You're computer is like your house.

The illegally downloaded music is like illegal immigrants.

You have the right to private property, but you can't harbor illegal immigrants in your basement without breaking the law.
 

Sinatra

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I think you're conflating rights with ability here.

You do have the ability to download copyrighted music without paying for it, but you don't have the right to do that. Sorry. It's why we have copyright laws; the creator's right to compensation for their work supersedes your imagined right to put whatever you want on your computer.

Just an example of where a third party can, in fact, tell you what you have the right to put on your hard drive.
I'm not disagreeing with you but can the creator of the downloaded music tell he how to use my computer on this board? I don't have the right to use his music in any other way that the creator wants but he can't tell me how to use my rights over my computer.
I'll try an analogy this time:

You're computer is like your house.

The illegally downloaded music is like illegal immigrants.

You have the right to private property, but you can't harbor illegal immigrants in your basement without breaking the law.

Uh-Oh...

 

JScott

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You can own nothing and still have the same rights as anyone else.
Something about the US Constitution.
I have the right to assemble but what good does it do if I can't rent a place to assemble with other people? I need a physical piece of property in order to manifest my freedom and if you protect protect property rights then you protect individual freedom since whatever hall that I use to assemble I obtain certain rights from the owner to assemble on his property. My right to assemble exist in the rights the owner of the hall allows me to use it for and if you protect those rights then you protect the freedom to assemble.
Assemble on public property.
 

Ravi

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The concept of individual liberty and natural law is really based on the concept of property ownership. When a person owns something they possess certain rights to it that other people don't have. They own the right to use their computer in a manor that the rights over that computer allow them to. Those rights were transferred from the previous owner so when I buy a computer from a manufacturer they are really transferring their rights to me and because of that no other person can tell me how to use those 'transferred rights'. This enables a great deal amount of freedom since I can use those property rights as a means of manifesting my free will such as posting on this website which is freedom of speech. I have this right because the manufacterer sold me the rights to use the computer any way I want without any restrictions and because of that no third party can interfere with that since no rights were transferred to them. They were only transferred to me.

Not only do I own my physical possession but I own my own self and those rights, just like the computer, were transferred to me from some source. Everyone has the same rights over their own selves that were transferred to them which means that every individual has an exclusive right to their own existence and, at the same time, have no rights over someone elses existence since everyone fully owns their own person and nothing more. This means no one has a right to tell someone else how to exist which puts each one of us in a state of freedom where we are immune from the control of others.
What point are you trying to make?

Property ownership is what gives us rights?

If so, wrong.
 

NYcarbineer

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The concept of individual liberty and natural law is really based on the concept of property ownership. When a person owns something they possess certain rights to it that other people don't have. They own the right to use their computer in a manor that the rights over that computer allow them to. Those rights were transferred from the previous owner so when I buy a computer from a manufacturer they are really transferring their rights to me and because of that no other person can tell me how to use those 'transferred rights'. This enables a great deal amount of freedom since I can use those property rights as a means of manifesting my free will such as posting on this website which is freedom of speech. I have this right because the manufacterer sold me the rights to use the computer any way I want without any restrictions and because of that no third party can interfere with that since no rights were transferred to them. They were only transferred to me.

Not only do I own my physical possession but I own my own self and those rights, just like the computer, were transferred to me from some source. Everyone has the same rights over their own selves that were transferred to them which means that every individual has an exclusive right to their own existence and, at the same time, have no rights over someone elses existence since everyone fully owns their own person and nothing more. This means no one has a right to tell someone else how to exist which puts each one of us in a state of freedom where we are immune from the control of others.
No one is immune to the control of others, nor should they be. The concept is idiocy.
 

midcan5

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The old cart before horse is that horse before cart or is that.... And where pray tell did property rights comes from? And why?


"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy." Proverbs 31:8-9

Check out Jeremy Waldron sometime for a interesting discussion on rights. (Buy a used copy, I did.)

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Rights-Collected-1981-1991-Philosophy/dp/0521436176/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: Liberal Rights: Collected Papers 1981-1991 (Cambridge Studies in Philosophy and Public Policy) (9780521436175): Jeremy Waldron: Books[/ame]
 

NYcarbineer

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[]What point are you trying to make?

Property ownership is what gives us rights?

If so, wrong.
I think what many of us share in common with ihopey is that neither we nor he have any idea what he's talking about.

If this were the 70's I'd be more inclined than anything to think his ramblings were pot induced, born of that euphoric delusion that you are producing gems of wisdom, profundity, and depth when in reality, to the unaddled brain, you are making no sense whatsover.
 

Oddball

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The old cart before horse is that horse before cart or is that.... And where pray tell did property rights comes from? And why?


"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy." Proverbs 31:8-9

Check out Jeremy Waldron sometime for a interesting discussion on rights. (Buy a used copy, I did.)

Amazon.com: Liberal Rights: Collected Papers 1981-1991 (Cambridge Studies in Philosophy and Public Policy) (9780521436175): Jeremy Waldron: Books
Ahhh...The old "I got nothing so I'll punt to some obscure book that mirrors my collectivist authoritarian ethos". :lol:

Who owns YOU, Buckwheat?
 

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