What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

NATO helped trigger the war in Ukraine

Silver Cat

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2020
Messages
3,014
Reaction score
624
Points
140
Location
Absaroka
I see that your pushing the BIG LIE that Ukrainians want to exterminate all Russian Ukrainians. Yet about half of the Ukrainian army are Russian Ukrainians. Ther may have been a small number of Ukrainians that wanted to eliminate everything Russian in Ukraine, but Russia ahs grossly exagerated their numbers and their power in Ukraine.
Of course, at least 73% of Ukrainian citizens (even without counting Crimea and Donbass) are anti-nationalistic. But, the Russians and Russian Language still don't have equal rights in Ukraine. Forced Ukrainisation is still a state policy. And Minsk agreements were not fulfilled by the Kievan regime.


In the U.S. there are people who'd like to eliminate all non-whites, and others that want to eliminate Jews. They are a tiny nimber and have no real power.
You see, they don't have power, because there are laws against them in the USA. Many laws (may be even too many), but the problem of sistematic racism is still existing and the USA are still at the edge of another Civil War. If, say, BLM protest were supressed by the military force (including MLRS and bomb strikes) - we were in the same sh-t.

Russia has a history of revolution and coups. Once this war goes on long enough, and Russian casualties mount, Putin's days are numbered. They only question is if the Ukrainians can hold out that long. Since they don't have a choice, they probably will.
Actually, Kievan regime is a zombie, which illusion of life is existing only because the massive economic and military support of the West. End of the Western support means end of the Kievan regime. Same way, Russia started the war because they already have economic support of the whole Shanghai block. Economically, Russia allied with China (and still trading with Western countries) is unbeatable. And no, trading one Russian life for twenty Ukrainian ones, Russia will inevitably win.

NATO would do fine in Ukraine. At least a whole lot better than the Russians are doing!
We'll see. I wouldn't be that optimistic.
 

Open Bolt

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2022
Messages
1,767
Reaction score
638
Points
163
Location
Michigan
The problem is, that from the Russian point of view, it's US and NATO who don't respect laws, treaties and this is why they have to finish Ukrainian Civil War (and, may be, European Security Crisis) by military force.
It is hardly a civil war when Russia has invaded Ukraine.

It would be a bad idea for Russia to try to wage a military war against NATO.


So, the USA and Russia have a simple choice - to find a mutually acceptable diplomatic solution, or to fight until decisive victory of one of the sides.
The US chooses to fight to a decisive victory.


The problem is that current US administration isn't ready for both scenarios. US diplomats don't understand Russia, and the soya boys from Pentagon don't know how to win a nuclear war against Russia.
You never win nuclear wars. You only ensure that the other side is destroyed. If there is a nuclear war, the US military knows how to ensure that Russia is destroyed.


And that's why American People and American Congress must control those incompetent fools from Administration and ask them right questions.
The right questions are being asked. The answer is to keep supplying Ukraine with the weapons they need to defend themselves and thereby keep up the slaughter of Russian troops.

This will prevent Russia from later being able to invade NATO countries.
 

Ringo

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Messages
4,360
Reaction score
1,529
Points
208
Location
Over there
And that's why American People and American Congress must control those incompetent fools from Administration and ask them right questions.
Like american people can control anything. Power in the US is not for them
 

Open Bolt

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2022
Messages
1,767
Reaction score
638
Points
163
Location
Michigan
Like american people can control anything. Power in the US is not for them
We are a democracy.

Unfortunately for Russia, we are a democracy that is happy to fight them to the death.
 

Open Bolt

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2022
Messages
1,767
Reaction score
638
Points
163
Location
Michigan
Of course, at least 73% of Ukrainian citizens (even without counting Crimea and Donbass) are anti-nationalistic. But, the Russians and Russian Language still don't have equal rights in Ukraine. Forced Ukrainisation is still a state policy. And Minsk agreements were not fulfilled by the Kievan regime.
That is incorrect. Most Ukrainians love their government and hate Russia. And that includes all the Russian-speaking Ukrainians too.


Actually, Kievan regime is a zombie, which illusion of life is existing only because the massive economic and military support of the West. End of the Western support means end of the Kievan regime.
That's OK. Ukraine has all the Western support that they need.


Same way, Russia started the war because they already have economic support of the whole Shanghai block. Economically, Russia allied with China (and still trading with Western countries) is unbeatable.
I doubt they are unbeatable, and Russia is no longer going to be trading with Western countries.


And no, trading one Russian life for twenty Ukrainian ones, Russia will inevitably win.
I doubt that Russia is trading one life for twenty Ukrainian ones. When Russia tried to capture Kyiv it was the reverse. Now in the east of Ukraine it is probably more of an even match.

But even if it really was one Russian life for twenty Ukrainian lives, that will still drain Russia of the forces that they will need to later invade a NATO country.
 

Ringo

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Messages
4,360
Reaction score
1,529
Points
208
Location
Over there
Yes, Ukraine's then-PM Yatsenyuk, "Yats," as Victoria Nuland called him, did refer to the Donbass residents as "subhumans" in 2014. 8 years later, we see that the Kiev government has been treating them accordingly.
FUyKYK0VIAExmMz

A journalist's question and a political prostitute's answer
 

toomuchtime_

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
15,888
Reaction score
2,844
Points
280
The problem is, that from the Russian point of view, it's US and NATO who don't respect laws, treaties and this is why they have to finish Ukrainian Civil War (and, may be, European Security Crisis) by military force.
So, the USA and Russia have a simple choice - to find a mutually acceptable diplomatic solution, or to fight until decisive victory of one of the sides. The problem is that current US administration isn't ready for both scenarios. US diplomats don't understand Russia, and the soya boys from Pentagon don't know how to win a nuclear war against Russia. And that's why American People and American Congress must control those incompetent fools from Administration and ask them right questions.
Once again, there is no diplomatic solution to this problem and this is a war between Russia and Ukraine, not between Russia and the US or Russia and NATO, regardless of Putin's bloated image of his own importance, and Ukraine has made it clear that it will not settle for anything less than a complete Russian withdrawal from Occupied Ukraine.

On another level one might view this as a geopolitical power struggle between the free world and Putin's imperialist Russia, but the two are clearly not at war with each other; Russia has not attacked any US or NATO targets and neither the US nor NATO has attacked any Russian targets. If Putin feels the need to find some solution to this war, he will have to try to persuade President Zelensky to talk to him.

This will be a very long war. Russia will continue to struggle to hold on to those parts of Ukraine it now occupies and its forces in Occupied Ukraine will remain under heavy fire. The war will last until Russia decides it can no longer afford to continue it just as the Russian occupation of eastern Europe lasted until Russia decided it could no longer afford to maintain it.
 

Richard-H

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
8,078
Reaction score
2,224
Points
245
Of course, at least 73% of Ukrainian citizens (even without counting Crimea and Donbass) are anti-nationalistic. But, the Russians and Russian Language still don't have equal rights in Ukraine. Forced Ukrainisation is still a state policy. And Minsk agreements were not fulfilled by the Kievan regime.



You see, they don't have power, because there are laws against them in the USA. Many laws (may be even too many), but the problem of sistematic racism is still existing and the USA are still at the edge of another Civil War. If, say, BLM protest were supressed by the military force (including MLRS and bomb strikes) - we were in the same sh-t.


Actually, Kievan regime is a zombie, which illusion of life is existing only because the massive economic and military support of the West. End of the Western support means end of the Kievan regime. Same way, Russia started the war because they already have economic support of the whole Shanghai block. Economically, Russia allied with China (and still trading with Western countries) is unbeatable. And no, trading one Russian life for twenty Ukrainian ones, Russia will inevitably win.


We'll see. I wouldn't be that optimistic.

So you think that it's better to kill hundreds of thousands of people than it is for Russian Ukrainians to learn to speak Ukrainian? Forcing Russian Ukrainian children to speak Ukrainian in the schools is no big deal. Spanish speaking people learn English in U.S. schools. My Italian grandfather learned English by himself.

There are no laws against any political beliefs in the U.S. Only against violent actions. BLM protests were only suppressed when they became violent.

Ukraine is a resource rich country. They don't need western support for their economic survival. All they need is military equipment - and the reason for that has become obvious thanks to Putin.

China couldn't care less about Russia. If Russia believes they can rely on China, they have a very nasty surprise coming. China is taking advantage of the low prices for energy that the Russians have been forced to set.

The casualty rate is much higher for the Russians then the Ukrainians. Since Russian tanks are useless in close combat, it's turned into a WWI artillery and infantry war. In that type of warfare the aggressors always have much higher casualties.
 

Ringo

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Messages
4,360
Reaction score
1,529
Points
208
Location
Over there
 

Indeependent

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
65,065
Reaction score
22,006
Points
2,250
So you think that it's better to kill hundreds of thousands of people than it is for Russian Ukrainians to learn to speak Ukrainian? Forcing Russian Ukrainian children to speak Ukrainian in the schools is no big deal. Spanish speaking people learn English in U.S. schools. My Italian grandfather learned English by himself.

There are no laws against any political beliefs in the U.S. Only against violent actions. BLM protests were only suppressed when they became violent.

Ukraine is a resource rich country. They don't need western support for their economic survival. All they need is military equipment - and the reason for that has become obvious thanks to Putin.

China couldn't care less about Russia. If Russia believes they can rely on China, they have a very nasty surprise coming. China is taking advantage of the low prices for energy that the Russians have been forced to set.

The casualty rate is much higher for the Russians then the Ukrainians. Since Russian tanks are useless in close combat, it's turned into a WWI artillery and infantry war. In that type of warfare the aggressors always have much higher casualties.
BLM protests were only suppressed when they became violent

Bullshit
 

Ringo

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Messages
4,360
Reaction score
1,529
Points
208
Location
Over there
On June 8, 2014, during the shelling of Slavyansk, Polina Sladkaya died.
She became the first child who was killed in the war in Donbass.
She was 6 years old. In the photo, the doctor Mikhail Kovalenko.
FVB0cJ3WYAAqoVl
 

gipper

Libertarian/Anarchist
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
50,484
Reaction score
21,106
Points
2,290
On June 8, 2014, during the shelling of Slavyansk, Polina Sladkaya died.
She became the first child who was killed in the war in Donbass.
She was 6 years old. In the photo, the doctor Mikhail Kovalenko.
FVB0cJ3WYAAqoVl
How to get the U.S, Europe and west to pay attention to Yemen and show how hypocritical they are.
1655078851284.png
 

Toro

Diamond Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Messages
93,322
Reaction score
30,528
Points
2,250
Location
Surfing the Oceans of Liquidity

gipper

Libertarian/Anarchist
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
50,484
Reaction score
21,106
Points
2,290

Ringo

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Messages
4,360
Reaction score
1,529
Points
208
Location
Over there
 

Ringo

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Messages
4,360
Reaction score
1,529
Points
208
Location
Over there
"Railways of Ukraine" reported damage from missile strikes 41 objects and 6,300 kilometers of railway tracks were damaged. The total amount of damage amounted to $ 2.7 billion.
Well, that happens when you transport NATO weapons on it to kill civilians...
 

gipper

Libertarian/Anarchist
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
50,484
Reaction score
21,106
Points
2,290
Thanks for the anti-American loon take!
Hey Tonto you better find a safe place for your investments, because the future looks bleak for establishment fucks like you. All thanks to your ignorant love of Western Imperialism.

Get informed before it’s too late, my son.

Russia's ruble is the strongest currency in the world this year​

The Russian ruble is the best-performing currency in the world this year.
Two months after the ruble's value fell to less than a U.S. penny amid the swiftest, toughest economic sanctions in modern history, Russia's currency has mounted a stunning turnaround. The ruble has jumped 40% against the dollar since January.

Why the ruble recovered​

The main reason for the ruble's recovery is soaring commodity prices. After Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24, already high oil and natural gas prices rose even further.
"Commodity prices are currently sky-high, and even though there is a drop in the volume of Russian exports due to embargoes and sanctioning, the increase in commodity prices more than compensates for these drops," said Tatiana Orlova, lead emerging markets economist at Oxford Economics.
Russia is pulling in nearly $20 billion a month from energy exports. Since the end of March, many foreign buyers have complied with a demand to pay for energy in rubles, pushing up the currency's value.
Russia's ruble is the strongest currency in the world this year


Russia is winning the economic war - and Putin is no closer to withdrawing troops​

The perverse effects of sanctions means rising fuel and food costs for the rest of the world – and fears are growing of a humanitarian catastrophe. Sooner or later, a deal must be made.
It is now three months since the west launched its economic war against Russia, and it is not going according to plan. On the contrary, things are going very badly indeed.
Russia is winning the economic war - and Putin is no closer to withdrawing troops | Larry Elliott


Is America the Real Victim of Anti-Russia Sanctions?​

By misjudging the size and importance of Russia’s economy, the West might have taken steps toward its own isolation​

Remember the claims that Russia’s economy was more or less irrelevant, merely the equivalent of a small, not very impressive European country? “Putin, who has an economy the size of Italy,” Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said in 2014 after the invasion of Crimea, “[is] playing a poker game with a pair of twos and winning.” Of increasing Russian diplomatic and geopolitical influence in Europe, the Middle East, and East Asia, The Economist askedin 2019, “How did a country with an economy the size of Spain … achieve all this?”
Seldom has the West so grossly misjudged an economy’s global significance. French economist Jacques Sapir, a renowned specialist of the Russian economy who teaches at the Moscow and Paris schools of economics, explained recently that the war in Ukraine has “made us realize that the Russian economy is considerably more important than what we thought.”
Anti Russia Sanctions Have Backfired on America
 

alexa

Silver Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,794
Reaction score
384
Points
98
Location
Scotland
Again, you assert that Putin's Russia has no obligation to abide by international law or international treaties signed by Russian governments that preceded his if they do not support Putin's fantasies of expanding the Russian empire. This places Russia outside the pale of 21st century civilization which is built on respect for those international laws and treaties that Putin's Russia refuses to abide by. This means that to sign any peace treaty with Putin's Russia that leaves him in control of any part of Occupied Ukraine would be tantamount to abandoning all hope of advancing civilized life among nations. This means that this war and all its repercussions for the Russian economy and Russian civil life are the new normal for Putin's Russia for the foreseeable future.
Get a life. My post had nothing to do with this. Find someone else to fight with.
 

CrusaderFrank

Diamond Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
130,704
Reaction score
49,427
Points
2,290

How much of the $40B in cash and weapons have been either resold or squirreled away in offshore accounts? You wonder why Congress fought against accountability?

10% for the Big Guy
 

alexa

Silver Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,794
Reaction score
384
Points
98
Location
Scotland
Ukraine put limitations on the use of all languages but Ukrainian. Of course, they put limitations on usage of Crimean Tatarian language,

I was sure I left a link before. Cannot find that one so this more elaborate one will need to do. Ukraine is not banning the Tartar's language. They recognise the importance of making sure it is not lost.

Oleksii Reznikov: Adoption of the Concept of the development of the Crimean Tatar Language is an important step for restoration of the territorial integrity of Ukraine | Ministry for Reintegration of the Temporary Occupied Territories

You see - collective punishment like deportation may be much lesser evil, comparing with the sum of individual punishments like death sentence (or twenty five years in prison) for almost all men and many women because of very active collaboration with the German Nazies, especially in genocide of Jews and Russians and brutality in anti-guerilla 'operations'.

Did I mention how many Tartars died in that forced deportation accusing them all of having links to the Nazis. As you will see from my previous post there is some thought that it may not have been any or just a tiny few. Stalin wanted Crimea free of Tartars
The deportation officially was intended as collective punishment[15] for the perceived collaboration of some Crimean Tatars with Nazi Germany; modern sources theorize that the deportation was part of the Soviet plan to gain access to the Dardanelles and acquire territory in Turkey where the Tatars had Turkic ethnic kin.

Collective punishment ignores the rule of law and decides to punish the innocent. It is a war crime. Do you believe that the Allies should have killed all German's after WW2? In fact I seem to remember hearing that Stalin was wanting 50,000 killed as an 'example'. That is probably true.

Nearly 8,000 Crimean Tatars died during the deportation, while tens of thousands perished subsequently due to the harsh exile conditions.[4] The Crimean Tatar exile resulted in the abandonment of 80,000 households and 360,000 acres of land. An intense campaign of detatarization to erase remaining traces of Crimean Tatar existence followed. In 1956, the new Soviet leader, Nikita Khrushchev, condemned Stalin's policies, including the deportation of various ethnic groups, but did not lift the directive forbidding the return of the Crimean Tatars, despite allowing the right of return for most other deported peoples. They remained in Central Asia for several more decades until the Perestroika era in the late 1980s when 260,000 Crimean Tatars returned to Crimea. Their exile lasted 45 years. The ban on their return was officially declared null and void, and the Supreme Council of Crimea declared on 14 November 1989 that the deportations had been a crime.

 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$225.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top