National Debt

[JohnDB]

Well we aren't in the worst shape...
But not exactly the best either...and since we still have a growing economy...we hope...we have a good chance to pull out of the mess.

 

[JGalt]

Well we aren't in the worst shape...
But not exactly the best either...and since we still have a growing economy...we hope...we have a good chance to pull out of the mess.

That just means we own a lot of shit we could pawn if we needed to.

The economy is not really doing all that well. Sure we have a 30 trillion dollar debt, but we own a
lot of stuff.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Well we aren't in the worst shape...
But not exactly the best either...and since we still have a growing economy...we hope...we have a good chance to pull out of the mess.

We cannot pull out of the mess till we cut spending. We cannot cut spending till people vote for people that will. We cannot vote for people that will as long as people keep voting for Ds or Rs.

 

[Woodznutz]

We cannot pull out of the mess till we cut spending. We cannot cut spending till people vote for people that will. We cannot vote for people that will as long as people keep voting for Ds or Rs.

Naw. It's people's bad habits and behavior that drive the debt. Also some debt is needed for the economy to keep pace with population growth.

 

[Woodznutz]

That just means we own a lot of shit we could pawn if we needed to.

The economy is not really doing all that well. Sure we have a 30 trillion dollar debt, but we own a
lot of stuff.

A lot of that stuff is wearing out or depreciating.

 

[Woodznutz]

Gator,

F--k, fight, or go for your gun.

 

[task0778]

We cannot pull out of the mess till we cut spending. We cannot cut spending till people vote for people that will.

When it comes to gov't debt, we have a spending problem. We can raise taxes, but contrary to what the democrats believe, when you do that too much or at the wrong time you end up with less investments in the private sector when you need it and that is not good for economic growth. Not saying you can't raise taxes somewhat, depending on how robust your economy is, raising taxes is the usual way to stymie inflation and an overheated economy. The real answer is to manage our spending so that it does not exceed revenue more than whatever our economic growth is. I think the EU sets their growth in spending at 3%, couldn't say if in reality they are sticking to that but if your spending is out of control (which it is in the US) then no amount of higher taxes is going to fix the problem of more debt. Until spending is controlled and limited, we are on the road to fiscal insolvency; you cannot borrow your way out of debt. Which is going to be difficult because we have too many politicians in both parties who are more interested in buying votes with more spending than they are in properly managing the national debt.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

When it comes to gov't debt, we have a spending problem.

Thanks for repeating what I just posted. That is most helpful.

Until spending is controlled and limited, we are on the road to fiscal insolvency; you cannot borrow your way out of debt. Which is going to be difficult because we have too many politicians in both parties who are more interested in buying votes with more spending than they are in properly managing the national debt.

And we have even far more people that are more interested in supporting their party than the country

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

When it comes to gov't debt, we have a spending problem. We can raise taxes, but contrary to what the democrats believe, when you do that too much or at the wrong time you end up with less investments in the private sector when you need it and that is not good for economic growth. Not saying you can't raise taxes somewhat, depending on how robust your economy is, raising taxes is the usual way to stymie inflation and an overheated economy. The real answer is to manage our spending so that it does not exceed revenue more than whatever our economic growth is. I think the EU sets their growth in spending at 3%, couldn't say if in reality they are sticking to that but if your spending is out of control (which it is in the US) then no amount of higher taxes is going to fix the problem of more debt. Until spending is controlled and limited, we are on the road to fiscal insolvency; you cannot borrow your way out of debt. Which is going to be difficult because we have too many politicians in both parties who are more interested in buying votes with more spending than they are in properly managing the national debt.

So, you just said the answer does not lie with EITHER Republicans or Democrats.
I agree.

Both of the mainstream parties are of and for the Establishment. Been sayin that for years now.
Yet the Left stays loyal to the DNC and the Right remains loyal to the RNC.

What does it take to wake people up?
And even more importantly, at this point, would it / could it actually make a difference or are we too far gone?

 

[task0778]

Thanks for repeating what I just posted. That is most helpful.



And we have even far more people that are more interested in supporting their party than the country

And getting themselves re-elected. Which means that the voters are part of the problem, we are not holding our elected reps' feet to the fire when it comes to spending. Eventually the problem will grow large enough to finally get everyone's attention, probably in the not too distant future. Will both sides come together and agree on a workable solution? Will a 3rd party based on fiscal responsibility take root? Will we slide into a monster depression as bad as the 1930s? I don't think most people see that as a possibility, and maybe it isn't all that likely, but I doubt that people in the 1930s thought it was possible either. The roaring 20s, people were livin' large. Could it happen again?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And getting themselves re-elected. Which means that the voters are part of the problem, we are not holding our elected reps' feet to the fire when it comes to spending.

The voters are the problem, we get the government we deserve. Incumbents win at a greater than 90% clip even though Congress as a entity has a approval ratings in the teens.

 

[task0778]

What does it take to wake people up?

I don't know, usually by the time people wake up to the problem it has snowballed into an unstoppable train. We ain't real good at recognizing and solving problems before they get to be big problems.

And even more importantly, at this point, would it / could it actually make a difference or are we too far gone?

The longer we wait the larger the problem gets and also harder to resolve. Are we too far gone? Don't know. The worst part for me is, we are creating a potential disaster that future generations will have to deal with. Used to be most of us wanted to make the world a better place for our kids and grandkids, but IMHO we ain't doing that anymore. It seems to be all about today and tomorrow can take care of itself.

 

[task0778]

The voters are the problem, we get the government we deserve. Incumbents win at a greater than 90% clip even though Congress as a entity has a approval ratings in the teens.

That's pretty amazing when you think about it. We have met the enemy and it is us, remember than one?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I don't know, usually by the time people wake up to the problem it has snowballed into an unstoppable train. We ain't real good at recognizing and solving problems before they get to be big problems.

We as a race (as in the human race) are terrible about caring about things till they are actually impacting us directly. Right now nobody feels any pain from the debt so it is just a number that means nothing to them

 

[Woodznutz]

Fiscal Data Explains Federal Spending

Check out @FiscalService Fiscal Data’s new federal spending page! #FederalSpending

datalab.usaspending.gov

"Where does all the money go? The government spends money on programs that ensure the well-being of the people of the United States. Why does the federal government do this? The Constitution provides an answer! The Constitution’s preamble states that the purpose of our government is “…to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.”

The government has not only failed to discharge these obligations, but it is clear that they don't even understand them.