Myths busted at climate change conference

[Old Rocks]

Climate change has always existed. There were always fluctuations in temperatures.
It's just a natural process, not really caused by human beings.

There have been a number of times that climate change rapidly and radically in the geological history. Thus far, it looks like all the great extinctions, save one, were caused by are very rapid change in GHG levels. Now, just because the change is caused by the actions of mankind, rather than volcanoes or the rapid weathering of rocks does not change the physics. You add GHGs to the atmosphere, whether from trapp volcanics or burning fossil fuels, the result is the same. The atmosphere rapidly warms. It would not take a more than a fraction of the warming experiance in the K-T extinction to make things very difficult for our descendents.

Another AGW cult member that believes AGW killed off the dinosaurs..

Damn, you are truly one dumb fuck. Damned right the changed climate from the impact at Chixaluab killed off the dinosaurs, and damned near everything else. After the impact, the earth burned. Then there was a period of very cold, as the earth was shrounded in clouds and smoke. And the oceans were very acid as the sulfer in the very sulpherous limestone that the asteroid impacted acidificied the oceans. And after the smoke cleared, and the normal rains resumed, there was a lot more GHGs in the atmosphere so it was much warmer. In other words, extremely rapid climate change killed just obout everything off at the end of the Cretecious.

 

[edthecynic]

Sure looks like a warming trend when you get the data directly from the RSS website rather than some second hand denier source.

RSS / MSU and AMSU Data / Time Series Trend Browser

Another AGW cult members checks in!!

It is often reported that the temperature of the earth is higher the past 20 years than it has ever been in history. This is simply not true, nor has it ever been. Hundreds of research studies using ice cores, pollen sedimentation, tree rings, etc. have shown that there were dozens of periods in the past 11,000 years (the Holocene period) that earth's temperature was warmer than it is today. Earth's temperature was very much warmer at least four times during the current interglacial period.

Another AGW cult fail!

Actually, the history of DIRECT INSTRUMENT MEASUREMENT. It's deniers who leave out the direct instrument measurement part so they can inject worthless non-global proxy data to muddy the water.

Another dishonest denier fail.

 

[BriannaMichele]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-fact-Earths-temperature-risen-15-years.html


•Pinky•

 

[Crick]

The story to which you've linked is pure bull-puckey. The report they're referring to was released in final form several months ago. The Mail (not one of your real top-notch sources for accurate and objective science news) wrote about it then. Don't know why they're repeating old stories.

The final report (AR5 of the IPCC, which may be seen at IPCC - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) thoroughly discusses the hiatus in warming that we've experienced over the last decade and a half. No one pressured anyone to make light of it. Historically, governments - who sponsor the IPCC - have pressured the groups authors to minimize the threat of AGW, not enhance it.

If you are of a mind to think that 15 years without significant warming indicates that global warming has ended or that it was never taking place, I would ask you to look at this graph of the Earth's average temperature since 1880:

The 15 year hiatus is clearly visible in the upper right hand corner where the red line goes into a nearly horizontal wiggle. Now if you believe that feature is significant against the total history of global warming, I would ask you to cast your eyes back to the left a little bit. Look at what the Earth's temperatures did between 1941 and 1979. That did not mark the end of global warming.

I would also ask you if you have some cause for global warming OTHER than the greenhouse warming of CO2 that humans have dumped into the Earth's atmosphere by the gigatonnes - the cause for warming accepted by 97% of the world's climate scientists? Because if you want to suggest that the warming hiatus of the last 15 years signals the end of warming, then you have to produce something OTHER than CO2 to have created all the warming observed in the first place. And it has to be something that has recently stopped (about 15 years back or so). Give us a ring if you find such a thing, but be advised no one else has had any luck in that regard.

 

[Crystalclear]

The story to which you've linked is pure bull-puckey. The report they're referring to was released in final form several months ago. The Mail (not one of your real top-notch sources for accurate and objective science news) wrote about it then. Don't know why they're repeating old stories.

The final report (AR5 of the IPCC, which may be seen at IPCC - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) thoroughly discusses the hiatus in warming that we've experienced over the last decade and a half. No one pressured anyone to make light of it. Historically, governments - who sponsor the IPCC - have pressured the groups authors to minimize the threat of AGW, not enhance it.

If you are of a mind to think that 15 years without significant warming indicates that global warming has ended or that it was never taking place, I would ask you to look at this graph of the Earth's average temperature since 1880:

The 15 year hiatus is clearly visible in the upper right hand corner where the red line goes into a nearly horizontal wiggle. Now if you believe that feature is significant against the total history of global warming, I would ask you to cast your eyes back to the left a little bit. Look at what the Earth's temperatures did between 1941 and 1979. That did not mark the end of global warming.

I would also ask you if you have some cause for global warming OTHER than the greenhouse warming of CO2 that humans have dumped into the Earth's atmosphere by the gigatonnes - the cause for warming accepted by 97% of the world's climate scientists? Because if you want to suggest that the warming hiatus of the last 15 years signals the end of warming, then you have to produce something OTHER than CO2 to have created all the warming observed in the first place. And it has to be something that has recently stopped (about 15 years back or so). Give us a ring if you find such a thing, but be advised no one else has had any luck in that regard.

Temperature has gone up and down all the time.

 

[jc456]

Climate change has always existed. There were always fluctuations in temperatures.
It's just a natural process, not really caused by human beings.

There have been a number of times that climate change rapidly and radically in the geological history. Thus far, it looks like all the great extinctions, save one, were caused by are very rapid change in GHG levels. Now, just because the change is caused by the actions of mankind, rather than volcanoes or the rapid weathering of rocks does not change the physics. You add GHGs to the atmosphere, whether from trapp volcanics or burning fossil fuels, the result is the same. The atmosphere rapidly warms. It would not take a more than a fraction of the warming experiance in the K-T extinction to make things very difficult for our descendents.

Another AGW cult member that believes AGW killed off the dinosaurs..

Well to barbeque a dinosaur, you had to have a really big fire!!!!!!!

 

[jc456]

There have been a number of times that climate change rapidly and radically in the geological history. Thus far, it looks like all the great extinctions, save one, were caused by are very rapid change in GHG levels. Now, just because the change is caused by the actions of mankind, rather than volcanoes or the rapid weathering of rocks does not change the physics. You add GHGs to the atmosphere, whether from trapp volcanics or burning fossil fuels, the result is the same. The atmosphere rapidly warms. It would not take a more than a fraction of the warming experiance in the K-T extinction to make things very difficult for our descendents.

Another AGW cult member that believes AGW killed off the dinosaurs..

Damn, you are truly one dumb fuck. Damned right the changed climate from the impact at Chixaluab killed off the dinosaurs, and damned near everything else. After the impact, the earth burned. Then there was a period of very cold, as the earth was shrounded in clouds and smoke. And the oceans were very acid as the sulfer in the very sulpherous limestone that the asteroid impacted acidificied the oceans. And after the smoke cleared, and the normal rains resumed, there was a lot more GHGs in the atmosphere so it was much warmer. In other words, extremely rapid climate change killed just obout everything off at the end of the Cretecious.

What? You're serious right? hahahaahahahahahaahhahaha..dude you are truly unbelievable. oh gawd the jokes need to stop, my sides are splitting from laughter.

 

[Crick]

Another AGW cult member that believes AGW killed off the dinosaurs..

Damn, you are truly one dumb fuck. Damned right the changed climate from the impact at Chixaluab killed off the dinosaurs, and damned near everything else. After the impact, the earth burned. Then there was a period of very cold, as the earth was shrounded in clouds and smoke. And the oceans were very acid as the sulfer in the very sulpherous limestone that the asteroid impacted acidificied the oceans. And after the smoke cleared, and the normal rains resumed, there was a lot more GHGs in the atmosphere so it was much warmer. In other words, extremely rapid climate change killed just obout everything off at the end of the Cretecious.

What? You're serious right? hahahaahahahahahaahhahaha..dude you are truly unbelievable. oh gawd the jokes need to stop, my sides are splitting from laughter.

When you stop laughing, how about you explain to us how the impact at Chixalub killed off all the dinosaurs?

 

[Crick]

A few notes just to give you some boundaries.

The K–Pg extinction event was severe, global, rapid, and selective. In terms of severity, the event eliminated a vast number of species. Based on marine fossils, it is estimated that 75% or more of all species were wiped out by the K–Pg extinction.[19] This is a rough estimate. It is difficult to estimate diversity for modern ecosystems, let alone for fossil ones, and the data are derived primarily from marine invertebrates. Terrestrial organisms, especially insects, represent much of the diversity, but have a poorer record. Despite this, the high levels of extinction seen in terrestrial and marine fossils indicate that the K–Pg extinction is the most severe extinction in the past 250 million years.

The K–Pg extinction was a global event. The event appears to have hit all continents at the same time. Dinosaurs, for example, are known from the Maastrichtian of North America, Europe, Asia, Africa, South America and Antarctica,[20] but are unknown from the Cenozoic anywhere in the world. Similarly, fossil pollen show devastation of the plant communities in areas as far flung as New Mexico, Alaska, China, and New Zealand.[13] The event also affected all seas and oceans. Widespread groups such as mosasaurs and ammonites disappeared around the world. Furthermore, the extinctions occurred at the same time on land and in the sea.

So, by what machanism(s), jc, did the impact kill all these animals and plants?

 

[Kosh]

A few notes just to give you some boundaries.

The K–Pg extinction event was severe, global, rapid, and selective. In terms of severity, the event eliminated a vast number of species. Based on marine fossils, it is estimated that 75% or more of all species were wiped out by the K–Pg extinction.[19] This is a rough estimate. It is difficult to estimate diversity for modern ecosystems, let alone for fossil ones, and the data are derived primarily from marine invertebrates. Terrestrial organisms, especially insects, represent much of the diversity, but have a poorer record. Despite this, the high levels of extinction seen in terrestrial and marine fossils indicate that the K–Pg extinction is the most severe extinction in the past 250 million years.

The K–Pg extinction was a global event. The event appears to have hit all continents at the same time. Dinosaurs, for example, are known from the Maastrichtian of North America, Europe, Asia, Africa, South America and Antarctica,[20] but are unknown from the Cenozoic anywhere in the world. Similarly, fossil pollen show devastation of the plant communities in areas as far flung as New Mexico, Alaska, China, and New Zealand.[13] The event also affected all seas and oceans. Widespread groups such as mosasaurs and ammonites disappeared around the world. Furthermore, the extinctions occurred at the same time on land and in the sea.

So, by what machanism(s), jc, did the impact kill all these animals and plants?

Still trying to say aerosols are NOT a gas?

 

[Crick]

Still trying to say aerosols are NOT a gas?

Still vying for the title of stupidest fuck ever?

A little quiz for you if you're going to ignore the definition of the word "aerosol" I posted. Aerosols cool the planet by reflecting the sun's light back out into space. Light bounces off of aerosols. They are, to some extent, opaque.

Name an opaque gas.

ps: If an aerosol is a gas, why don't they just call it a "gas"? What is the DIFFERENCE?

 

[Crick]

JC456 - we want to get in on the joke. Please explain for us the mechanism(s) by which the Chicxulub impact killed all the dinosaurs.

 

[ABikerSailor]

There have been a number of times that climate change rapidly and radically in the geological history. Thus far, it looks like all the great extinctions, save one, were caused by are very rapid change in GHG levels. Now, just because the change is caused by the actions of mankind, rather than volcanoes or the rapid weathering of rocks does not change the physics. You add GHGs to the atmosphere, whether from trapp volcanics or burning fossil fuels, the result is the same. The atmosphere rapidly warms. It would not take a more than a fraction of the warming experiance in the K-T extinction to make things very difficult for our descendents.

Another AGW cult member that believes AGW killed off the dinosaurs..

Well to barbeque a dinosaur, you had to have a really big fire!!!!!!!

You're right................to barbeque a dinosaur you need a really big fire. Preferably one that can last for a long time.

Wanna talk about the wildfires and the way that California is having to fight them for 12 months versus 3 months out of the year?

It's said that this wildfire season (which is going to last for over a year) has already cost the state a billion dollars?

Yeah................sure...................it snows in DC and the right wing says that global warming does not exist, yet during that same time they had to make snow for the Olympics in Vancouver.

It's not global warming people, it's global climate change. There is a good chance that the midlands (aka the world's breadbasket) of America could become desert.

But...............keep denying that it's happening if you want. Yeah............you can pass your fortune on to your progeny, but what good is it going to do them if the planet becomes inhabitable?

Good thing I don't live in Miami or in Florida, because my house won't flood in the next 10 years.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

A few notes just to give you some boundaries.

The K–Pg extinction event was severe, global, rapid, and selective. In terms of severity, the event eliminated a vast number of species. Based on marine fossils, it is estimated that 75% or more of all species were wiped out by the K–Pg extinction.[19] This is a rough estimate. It is difficult to estimate diversity for modern ecosystems, let alone for fossil ones, and the data are derived primarily from marine invertebrates. Terrestrial organisms, especially insects, represent much of the diversity, but have a poorer record. Despite this, the high levels of extinction seen in terrestrial and marine fossils indicate that the K–Pg extinction is the most severe extinction in the past 250 million years.

The K–Pg extinction was a global event. The event appears to have hit all continents at the same time. Dinosaurs, for example, are known from the Maastrichtian of North America, Europe, Asia, Africa, South America and Antarctica,[20] but are unknown from the Cenozoic anywhere in the world. Similarly, fossil pollen show devastation of the plant communities in areas as far flung as New Mexico, Alaska, China, and New Zealand.[13] The event also affected all seas and oceans. Widespread groups such as mosasaurs and ammonites disappeared around the world. Furthermore, the extinctions occurred at the same time on land and in the sea.

So, by what machanism(s), jc, did the impact kill all these animals and plants?

Probably by setting off a few supervolcano at the time of impact

 

[Kosh]

Still trying to say aerosols are NOT a gas?

Still vying for the title of stupidest fuck ever?

A little quiz for you if you're going to ignore the definition of the word "aerosol" I posted. Aerosols cool the planet by reflecting the sun's light back out into space. Light bounces off of aerosols. They are, to some extent, opaque.

Name an opaque gas.

ps: If an aerosol is a gas, why don't they just call it a "gas"? What is the DIFFERENCE?

An aerosol includes both the particles and the suspending gas, which is usually air.

Yes aerosol is a gas! Even NASA says it is gas, so why can you not accept that?

Still claiming NASA is wrong?

You are liar and will always be, you know nothing about science, yet continue parading around like you do.

This is the mentality of a two year old.

 

[Kosh]

Another AGW cult member that believes AGW killed off the dinosaurs..

Well to barbeque a dinosaur, you had to have a really big fire!!!!!!!

You're right................to barbeque a dinosaur you need a really big fire. Preferably one that can last for a long time.

Wanna talk about the wildfires and the way that California is having to fight them for 12 months versus 3 months out of the year?

It's said that this wildfire season (which is going to last for over a year) has already cost the state a billion dollars?

Yeah................sure...................it snows in DC and the right wing says that global warming does not exist, yet during that same time they had to make snow for the Olympics in Vancouver.

It's not global warming people, it's global climate change. There is a good chance that the midlands (aka the world's breadbasket) of America could become desert.

But...............keep denying that it's happening if you want. Yeah............you can pass your fortune on to your progeny, but what good is it going to do them if the planet becomes inhabitable?

Good thing I don't live in Miami or in Florida, because my house won't flood in the next 10 years.

Another AGW cult member that thinks the dinosaurs were killed off by AGW.

 

[Crick]

A few notes just to give you some boundaries.

The K–Pg extinction event was severe, global, rapid, and selective. In terms of severity, the event eliminated a vast number of species. Based on marine fossils, it is estimated that 75% or more of all species were wiped out by the K–Pg extinction.[19] This is a rough estimate. It is difficult to estimate diversity for modern ecosystems, let alone for fossil ones, and the data are derived primarily from marine invertebrates. Terrestrial organisms, especially insects, represent much of the diversity, but have a poorer record. Despite this, the high levels of extinction seen in terrestrial and marine fossils indicate that the K–Pg extinction is the most severe extinction in the past 250 million years.

The K–Pg extinction was a global event. The event appears to have hit all continents at the same time. Dinosaurs, for example, are known from the Maastrichtian of North America, Europe, Asia, Africa, South America and Antarctica,[20] but are unknown from the Cenozoic anywhere in the world. Similarly, fossil pollen show devastation of the plant communities in areas as far flung as New Mexico, Alaska, China, and New Zealand.[13] The event also affected all seas and oceans. Widespread groups such as mosasaurs and ammonites disappeared around the world. Furthermore, the extinctions occurred at the same time on land and in the sea.

So, by what machanism(s), jc, did the impact kill all these animals and plants?

Probably by setting off a few supervolcano at the time of impact

Unfortunately, the geologic record doesn't support that contention. The K-Pg (nee KT) extinction took 33 thousand years, so I'm quite sure there were a number of volcanic eruptions in the duration. But they weren't the cause of the global extinctions. Try again.

Try to imagine what the impact did.

It made a very large hole
The energy of the impact released an enormous amount of thermal energy.
It caused a lot of fires in what is now central America
It threw an enormous amount of dust into the atmosphere (for jc456, that dust would be classified as "aerosols")

What might all those things have done that would make life tough for the dinosaurs (and marine life and plants and insects and damn near everything else on the planet)?

 

[Crick]

What happens when a large volcano goes off and throws all that crap up into the atmosphere? What happened after Pinatubo? What happened after Krakatoa?

The dust blocked sunlight and the Earth got cold and dark.

If its bad enough, like after Chicxulub, plants would die. No plants, no herbivores. No herbivores, no carnivores.

 

[Kosh]

A few notes just to give you some boundaries.

The K–Pg extinction event was severe, global, rapid, and selective. In terms of severity, the event eliminated a vast number of species. Based on marine fossils, it is estimated that 75% or more of all species were wiped out by the K–Pg extinction.[19] This is a rough estimate. It is difficult to estimate diversity for modern ecosystems, let alone for fossil ones, and the data are derived primarily from marine invertebrates. Terrestrial organisms, especially insects, represent much of the diversity, but have a poorer record. Despite this, the high levels of extinction seen in terrestrial and marine fossils indicate that the K–Pg extinction is the most severe extinction in the past 250 million years.

The K–Pg extinction was a global event. The event appears to have hit all continents at the same time. Dinosaurs, for example, are known from the Maastrichtian of North America, Europe, Asia, Africa, South America and Antarctica,[20] but are unknown from the Cenozoic anywhere in the world. Similarly, fossil pollen show devastation of the plant communities in areas as far flung as New Mexico, Alaska, China, and New Zealand.[13] The event also affected all seas and oceans. Widespread groups such as mosasaurs and ammonites disappeared around the world. Furthermore, the extinctions occurred at the same time on land and in the sea.

So, by what machanism(s), jc, did the impact kill all these animals and plants?

Probably by setting off a few supervolcano at the time of impact

The K-T extinction was not the first such massive die-off in history, nor was it the largest. The Permian-Triassic extinction event, known as the Great Dying, occurred 251.4 million years ago and eradicated 96 percent of all marine species and 70 percent of all terrestrial vertebrates species on earth.

Although this may help:

<..snip..>

"It's possible that the impact was enough, but there is ample evidence that other things such as rapid climate swings were going on just beforehand, so it seems likely that the impact tipped the balance of an already-stressed biosphere," Renne said. "I've always felt that we should avoid simply saying, 'OK, Eureka, it was an impact and now we're done' -- simple answers are often incomplete."

Death of the Dinosaurs: New Proof Asteroid or Comet Impact Caused Extinction, Say Berkeley Scientists - ABC News

 

[Crick]

Your reference lays even MORE responsibility at the feet of climate change in opposition to your initial contention. Is that generally how you conduct arguments?